Bulbapedia talk:Project Pokédex/Structure

Game locations

I am not sure if the Project pages are all archived or not, but I feel like I should ask this anyways. Is the order information listed out of date? I am trying to update a few articles to be consistent with each other and am not sure if Routes are to be first or second to named locations. --Super goku (talk) 05:43, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Adding moves available only by transfer from an earlier generation

Sumwun and I believe that, for the moves, an additional section "By transfer from an earlier generation" would be sensible. (Please refer to User talk:Force Fire#Transfer-only moves and ability changes.) The addition of this subsection would enable users to tell what moves <species> can know (in <game/generation>) at one glance.

It's very well possible even Tiddlywinks is underestimating how difficult it is to answer the "know in <game/generation>" question (as much as I initially did). As Sumwun said at the referenced talk page, currently, you'd have to click at least up to 6 links to learnset pages, assuming you already know by heart how transfer works (and that you can't transfer Pokémon from GO by any means, which is what I actually doublechecked). And additionally, you might have to actually neglect irrelevant sections on learnset pages (for example, in USUM/GenVII, Bulbasaur cannot know AncientPower AFAIK). (If there's a faster method, I'd like to hear it.)

And I can't stress how important I think that question is, for I believe it is the central question to that species and learnset pages should be providing an answer to (the use case). It all boils down to that use case: in Tiddlywinks' words, what's the "concern" species/learnset pages try to address? I can't sketch a question/use case that would include "By events" but not "By transfer from a prior generation". (Well, for USUM, I can sketch the question "What moves can <species> with black clover know?", but that's arguably a "special" case, and probably comp-centric*.) I would like to know what you guys think that use case should be.

Regarding Tiddlywinks' comment about this coming from a "specific focus like comp/challenges", I took some time to think about that. Apart from the fact that I don't think the use case is comp-centric even, it is also not subjective, but purely factual, unlike the questions you said "we're never going to do" (and, by the way, I agree we shouldn't). For example, I recall that I once designed a team for my next playthrough, and I was searching possible moves for them. From context, I can recreate it must've been for XY before ORAS came out, because I wanted my Swinub to have a good Special Ground-type STAB and ended up breeding it in an earlier generation so I could teach it Earth Power via move tutor, then transfered (and traded) it to the new save file. I don't think that I ever was, in any point in time, trying to answer a question where I required all current subsections but not "By transfer from a prior generation".

I would like to know what you guys think that use case should be, and whether you think the suggestion subsection is sensible. Nescientist (talk) 12:17, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

As far as event moves, the alternative to listing them would seem to be...not having them documented. (If that option seems sensible to you, please explain it to me. =P )

Regardless of whether it is an "exclusive" concern of comp (though I could very much argue that you searching for a "good" move is still some above average interest in strategy), it is still a fairly niche concern. Exploiting legacy moves requires effort and resources (having access to more than one game or console is not necessarily trivial). It's much simpler, and works just fine, to just play the game at hand. Tiddlywinks (talk) 13:58, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Well, they would still be documented at event distribution pages and move pages, but I don't want to remove that section anyway.

If you say "What moves can <species> know (in <game/generation>)?" is a niche, what do you think the central question is (like, the most important one; what are leansets there for)? Nescientist (talk) 15:33, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

In short, info new to this generation. Tiddlywinks (talk) 15:56, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. "By transfer from an earlier generation" is not within that scope, of course.

Does that mean you oppose that section, then? Nescientist (talk) 16:07, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

I said no before. It means I won't say we definitely need it. Tiddlywinks (talk) 16:24, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying. (I guess you didn't explicitly say that you don't oppose it, and I certainly didn't understand it that way.) Nescientist (talk) 16:37, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Are Bulbapedia users more likely to care about "What moves can <Pokemon> learn in this generation?" than they are to care about "What moves can <Pokemon> know in this generation?"? sumwun (talk) 21:57, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Even if the large majority of Bulbapedia users only care about learning moves, adding transfer-only moves will still help the few of us who care more than it will annoy or hurt anyone, right? Are there any real drawbacks to adding transfer-only moves? sumwun (talk) 22:16, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

If you can make a user page (say a page for each generation to keep it relatively simple) with all legacy moves for all Pokemon, then I won't mind if you want to ask, essentially, is it so hard?

As long as that's gonna be on us, though, that effort is non-trivial, especially when, once again, the info is available if you need it currently. Tiddlywinks (talk) 23:38, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Okay. I'll try to do that when I get enough time. sumwun (talk) 01:47, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

This is a feature I'd like to have as well. It's something I've wanted in the past but never thought to ask about adding it here. --Felthry (talk) 02:44, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

FYI, abcboy has given a go for this. I'd like this to be done properly, and not end up in chaos and/or unfinished, so I've made a userpage documenting the progress etc. for this project at User:Nescientist/Project Trace.

We probably have some kind of momentum right now, there's several skilled users interested in this who've actually worked for this or might be willing to actively help. In order to coordinate things smoothly, I kindly suggest to offload any relevant on-wiki discussion regarding the actual project to the userpage's talkpage (rather than indivual users' talkpages or multiple talkpages). So let's do this! Nescientist (talk) 19:43, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Moves available via transfer of a pre-evolution

In an attempt to concentrate on the question "What moves can a Pokémon know (rather than learn) in a game/generation?", we had added moves available via transfer from the same species to a dedicated section within the learnlists some time ago (see above). However, there are cases where a species can know a move (only) if its pre-evolution was transferred (and then evolved), which was initially not considered, but belongs to answer the question. Examples include Gen II Blissey being able to know Body Slam when originating from a Gen I Chansey; Gen VIII Mr. Rime being able to know Mud-Slap when originating from a Gen IV Mr. Mime or Mime Jr.; or Gen VII Glaceon being able to know Reflect when originating from a Gen I Eevee.

As can be seen when clicking the above links, Bulbapedia is a wiki with many dedicated editors, which has led to the addition of some moves on some pages, but with inconsistent (and confusing) formats, while others have not (yet) been added. I'd like to finally move forward with streamlining this, giving all relevant pages a consistent format that average readers can understand and get used to; so, the plan is to list all relevant moves on all pages they belong, in this format (1b), over the next couple of days. It's quite some work to be done (seek all relevant moves, edit around 200 pages), so if there's additional input, I guess now's the time. Nescientist (talk) 16:03, 4 April 2022 (UTC)