Talk:Decidueye (Pokémon)

Name origin

Decidueye comes from deciduous and eye.Ashitic (talk) 13:36, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

It also likely draws inspiration from the term "deadeye" used in reference an expert marksman. ~Destruction on Wings~ (talk) 14:53, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

To expand upon this its Japanese name is ジュナイパー, or Junaipaa. Probably draws from jukai (abundant leafage) and sniper, though I wonder what it'll be officially romanized to since Juniper is literally the name of a type of plant. --TheMaskedMeowth (talk) 15:00, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

To further expand, I think the inspiration for Decidueye's questionable typing lies in its name and appearance. Its cloak is brown, like a dead leaf, and "deciduous" refers to leaves that fall from shrubs and trees when they've matured and died (after which they become brown). The Ghost-typing (in place of the Flying-type) is a reference to dead leaves. Just thought I'd share in case anyone was confused. BNK^Talk 16:57, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Funny thing about the "deadeye" inspiration, I thought it was more "hawkeye". That's what I get for being into comic books too much. I guess either works, when you think about it. ----NateVirus(Talk|Contributions) 20:19, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Biology

"Decidueye is an avian Pokemon closely resembling an owl. Its most prominent feature is a green, leafy hood that covers its head and shoulders. A pale cream-colored feather with a red-orange base extends from the top of the hood. Beneath this cowl, its head is black with a hooked beak and a pale chin, and it has red-orange, spectacle-like markings on its face. Its large eyes have golden-brown irises and red pupils. The hood also features a four-pointed, red-orange leaf below the chin and two leaf-tipped vines that act as drawstrings. Decidueye can use one of these vines as a bowstring to launch arrow quills. The arrows are stored in its wings, which are large and light brown with whitish spots on the uppersides. The red-orange points of the arrow quills are visible in a row along the underside of each wing. The ends of the wings have three pale-tipped feathers which act as fingers, allowing it to grasp the bowstring and nock arrows to attack. The tail consists of three leaves growing from its back. The body is cream-colored with fluffy feathers on the breast and long, powerful legs that are fully feathered. The feet have four sharp talons in a zygodactyl configuration, with two toes forward and two back.

This Pokemon is able to completely mask its presence as it moves around. When it finds an opening, it can draw, nock, and fire an arrow quill in as little as a tenth of a second. The arrows fly with astounding speed and amazing precision, piercing targets from over a half-mile away. Skilled Decidueye are capable of launching curved trick shots, attacking with arrows that soar skyward and drill down from above, striking multiple targets. Although it usually acts very cool, unexpected situations like surprise attacks can leave it terribly flustered." ~Destruction on Wings~ (talk) 14:53, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Decidueye's Weight

Decidueye is now the lightest final starter evolution. It takes this place from Delphox. Srushj11 (talk) 20:07, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

I hate to add onto this, but I believe that this should be added to the Trivia section of Decidueye's page. Srushj11 (talk) 06:45, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Origin

Although it's currently listed as possibly being inspired by an archer and a barn owl, might it instead be based off a pueo? Pueo are owls only found in Hawaii and are notable for having a white ring around their dark faces, resembling a hood. They have a notable significance in traditional Hawaiian culture, and is one of the forms of the god Kane. Mimi (talk) 23:47, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

That could be a possibility, though there have been plenty of starters that are based on animals that arguably aren't found in the country/part of the world their region is based off of let alone many Pokémon introduced in a region that isn't based on their real world habitat. If anything, I would think that the possibility that Decidueye is based on a pueo would go along side the barn owl bit. But that's just me. Also one can fit the pueo inspiration into its Ghost typing, since the pueo is associated with the Hawaiian spirits known as aumakua. But then again that might be something that was more meant for the Guardian deities like Tapu Koko----NateVirus(Talk|Contributions) 00:03, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Another idea, might be crazy, stilt-owl, they are an extinct owl from Hawaii. Though Decidueye is a Ghost type, not Rock. But like I said, just a crazy idea to add to all this. Take it how you will. ----NateVirus(Talk|Contributions) 01:21, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

No one has any idea what stilt-owls ever looked like, really. But Rowlet's family looks pretty well like a barn owl. If your only connections are "They're owls and they're from Hawaii"...consider looking harder (or just forever nursing the theory in your heart of hearts =P ). Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:37, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

No, I see no reason not to mention stilt-owls. Decidueye lacks a barn owl's very distinctive face. There's no indication in either the name or the lore that it's specifically a barn owl. It seems to be a mix of a couple of different owl species, or no owl in particular, as opposed to one specific species. Crystal Talian 01:59, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Heh. Hey, as I said, it was just a crazy idea I thought I'd add to Mimi's pueo theory. *shrugs* ;) As far as I'm concerned at the moment, Decidueye is an archer-owl that may or maynot tie into some sort of Hawaiian lore. That last part is just a self-justification on its typing and is basically a "WIP", as I'll just wait and see what else happens. ;) If there are any "dots" that will be connected or the like, then "cool-beans". ----NateVirus(Talk|Contributions) 02:50, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

I'm seeing rumors crop up on Twitter that Decidueye is based on the wp:stilt-owl, an ancient owl that was native to Hawaii, but went extinct some time between Hawaii's initial colonization by what are now native Hawaiians and the arrival of Europeans. They are only known today from fossil record. --Macsen (talk) 13:36, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

It could be possible that Decidueye's design may have been inspired by the Ornimegalonyx, or the Cuban Giant Owl. This prehistoric owl is noted for its long, powerful legs, a trait that is likely seen with Decidueye's design and description of speed. And as these owls are flightless birds, it can also explain how Decidueye loses its flying typing. (BizarreJoDo (talk) 19:07, 28 October 2016 (UTC))

Maybe it's Ghost Typing could come from the evil owl spirit La Lechuza in Mexican folklore. She was an old woman who was murdered by a group of townspeople that considered her a "witch" who now comes back in the form of an owl to attack those who wronged her. A more light hearted basis could be on Santa Muerte (Holy Death) a revered figure of death in Mexican folklore who acts as a protector, healer, and helps with travel into the afterlife. She is often depicted with an owl, as owls are her messengers, and it is even believed that if someone hears the cry of an owl, than death is soon to come. Santa Muerte then guides the soul of the person who died into the afterlife. Logo7 (talk) 15:53, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Gaijin Goombah is not a reliable frame of reference. Nor is any YouTuber's observation and/or opinion on game design. It has nothing to do with Mexico.--BlisseyandtheAquaJets (talk) 16:11, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, just trying to help. Logo7 (talk) 16:12, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

I honestly didn't know that it wasn't reliable. While I do agree with him, I'll try to remember not to post anything else from him on this site. Sorry for the inconvenience.Logo7 (talk) 16:14, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

As far as any frame of reference or any source, it is best to stick with primarily the official information that comes straight from the designers themselves or Nintendo or Game Freak. Best to avoid any fan-theories from Twitter, a Youtuber, or the like. I mean looking at sources like Wikipedia or just a more creditable source is obviously alright. Also, Logo, when replying to someone directly like that, try to use a ":" in front of your reply to indent it. Anyway, for now, Decidueye is based off of a species of owl and an archer. I'd say that being a Ghost type has at least to do with how Hawaiians perceive/portray owls in their culture but that maybe pushing it as far as me trying to avoid adding speculation. And Macsen, I already mentioned the stilt-owl in my statement a bit above yours and really as I concluded, that seems to be more of a fossil-like scenario anyway. Btw, try using two "{"s and "}"s when linking to Wikipedia via template, you won't be stuck with a "wp:" in front. ----NateVirus(Talk|Contributions) 19:13, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Although, to be fair, I did know what La Lechuza was before watching that video, I only just made the connection after it. Logo7 (talk) 19:20, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Could there be some inspiration from Robin Hood? Other than the obvious hood thing, robin hood lived in Sherwood forest (type contribution) and was a famous archer who was stealthy enough to evade capture and rob many of their riches like he was a ghost. Yamitora1 (talk) 06:06, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Fully Evolved Alola Starters and Mallow leaked

Can someone who can edit this page add this to the Trivia section?

• On June 4th, 2016, official confidential art featuring Decidueye, Incineroar, Primarina, and Mallow was leaked on the internet. This leak happened 145 days before the Fully Evolved Alola Starters' official reveal on October 27, 2016.

Here are my sources. http://www.pokecommunity.com/archive/index.php/t-370057.html http://66.media.tumblr.com/0250e03bd66ab9ca99dc62e78ecf5d7b/tumblr_o8adnyxaSF1qhkgqso1_540.jpg

--PKMNAdventurer (talk) 00:07, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Archduke

The French name is also likely a reference to the word "Archduke" - unsigned comment from Chuckwoodjohn (talk • contribs)

Trivia Fact

I thought of a good trivia fact.

Decidueye is the first starter Pokémon to change one of its types upon evolution. It went from Grass/Flying to Grass/Ghost. Christian (talk) 00:52, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

I thought about that, but considering that Rowlet is only the second starter Pokémon to start with two types (after Bulbasaur), it's not like there was a "trend" of dual-type starter Pokémon keeping both types in the first place. I dunno. —Andy^P_K^M_N (talk) 15:10, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

You know how a duel type starter like Bulbasaur keeps its type combination throughout its entire evolutionary line, Rowlet changes its secondary typing when it evolves into its final stage. This is the first time this has happened to a starter Pokémon.

Here is another thing about adding to that trivia fact: Decidueye is the first starter Pokémon to change one of its types upon evolution, not counting Mega Evolution. Christian (talk) 17:18, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Falconry mask and Hawks

Hey, I noticed this the other day when looking at some images of Falconry, but I believe part of Decidueye's design comes from falconry masks. These masks are used to blind the falcon and make them essentially "rest", but often have something on top. This something on top usually consists of a knot or something, but sometimes may have a feather. It may also be based on the character Pet Shop from the manga series, "Jojo's Bizarre Adventure." This character is a peregrine falcon with a feathered falconry mask inspired helmet. This character is very deadly and silent, which (if this character did help inspire Decidueye) could explain the Ghost-typing some. The reason I did not ignore this possibility is because of how popular the manga series is in Japan, being just as influential in media and a huge pop cultural icon for 30 years. On top of that, we've already seen that GameFreak and the designers are nerds too with Aggron's, Nidoking/queen's, and Vikavolt's design inspirations as well as Hydreigon's and Tyranitar's Japanese names.

The point related to hawks that I wanted to bring up is that I believe Decidueye is based on the Hawaiian hawk. This species of hawk is considered Endangered by the United states, but Near Threatened by the IUCN (International Union for Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources). The reason is most likely because of fossil record indications of it once existing on several islands, but is extinct on all but the main island. In Hawai'i, it is recognized as a royal symbol and sometimes called an exalted hawk, which I believe fits well with the classy look of Dartrix and the possibly classy look of Decidueye. Oh, forgot to add, hawks have the long legs that stilt owls are known to have, so it may be a combination of the two animals.

Drbiohazmat (talk) 04:28, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Hyper Beam?

According to both here and Serebii.net, Decidueye and Primarina can't learn Hyper Beam but Incineroar can?? That seems... off, considering that normally all fully-evolved starters can learn it. Is this accurate, or is it just that the 7th-gen games are still new enough that not all the information has been put up on the site yet? FnrrfYgmSchnish (talk) 03:27, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

This is accurate, indeed. --Carmen★ (Talk | contribs) 03:33, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Flightlessness

Decidueye's loss of a Flying type for a Ghost type, as well as the fact that its cut running animation shows it running on the ground (instead of flying like its pre-evos) seems to imply that it became flightless upon evolution. Should this be mentioned in Trivia or Biology? --Geektreecko (talk) 02:47, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

That is not confirmed, so we can't add it. There are Pokémon without the Flying type that can still fly so that doesn't indicate anything either. --HoennMaster 03:40, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

The animation for Sinister Arrow Raid shows it flying. Ataro (talk) 16:37, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Good point! I completely forgot about that! --Geektreecko (talk) 21:08, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Forget the animation; Decidueye can't learn the move Fly. I just checked on my game. In fact, it appears to be the only member of the Flying egg group whose entire evolutionary line is apparently unable to learn that move, as even Archeops is capable of it... --ACDragonMaster (talk) 05:45, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Just because it has wings doesn't mean it has to learn Fly. Scyther has wings and can't learn Fly. Also, the act of flying and the move Fly are two separate things. For all we know, Decidueye could still fly, just not use the move.--ForceFire 06:32, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Scyther isn't part of the Flying egg group, nor is it based on a bird. It's not proof as to whether Decidueye can or can't fly in any manner, but it's perhaps noteworthy that it's the only evolutionary line of the egg group unable to learn that move. --ACDragonMaster (talk) 01:03, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

It is our general policy not to presume that any Pokemon "should" be able to use any given move. Otherwise I'm sure there's a bunch of Pokemon with arms and/or legs who "should" be able to learn the elemental punches and/or Mega Kick, or any number of other things you could think of.

We don't need such assumptions. Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:37, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

It seems to me that, regardless of whether it is flightless or not, the fact that it is the only evolutionary line in the flying egg group that can't learn fly might be notable. It's a unique case, which is a usual criterion for notability here. Xolroc (talk) 02:13, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Aerial Ace

Article states that that Aerial Ace is STAB move and can be learned via TM. In game (ultra moon) it is not possible: [1] - unsigned comment from Zg (talk • contribs)

Ugh. Thanks, fixed. Nescientist (talk) 18:37, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Pokkén

All other Pokkén Fighters have an article, so Decidueye and Empoleon could have one too. LaprasLaplace 10:49, 17 September 2020 (UTC)