Talk:Pokémon Masters EX

Cheryl was also shown to be present in the direct. I don't want to mess with the coding since it's clearly being very carefully handled, but just wanted to point it out. GymLeaderKit (talk) 18:16, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

But who's the really tall adult woman with the Lotad?

Only main series games I've never played are X & Y and Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee and I've never seen her before. Is she a new original character or a returning side character?

Also, does this take place in the Kalos/Alola universe (but at an earlier time period, before Red and Blue became adults), or is this an entirely separate universe on its own, like the Let's Go universe? Mcheetah (talk) 18:42, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

She's a Beauty. The Japanese version of the game's Animated Trailer has credits for all speaking characters and she's identified as a Beauty (大人のお姉さん). So, looks that there are original Trainer Class designs in this game as well. --Maxim (talk) 20:30, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Possible Release date

So I just found out the possible release dates through this source on face book " Pokémon Masters preregistration has begun!, Follow the links below to preregister!, App Store: https://apple.co/2LB8duF , Google Play: http://bit.ly/32H1nJw, *Preregistration is being rolled-out gradually. Please check back later if it's not available now." Should we add the release dates?--Jacob Kogan (talk) 04:19, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Which Facebook account are we talking about? GrammarFreak01 (talk) 05:28, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Voice cast

Not sure of the way we're going to format the cast for this game, so I'll just drop what I find here. Kaiji Tang as Noland, Hiker and Pokéfan The Great Butler (talk) 04:29, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

That should be good. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 04:31, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Erica Mendez in the game, role as yet unrevealed. Worth keeping an eye on for when that information's given. The Great Butler (talk) 06:44, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Got some more: Xanthe Huynh as Erika, Laura Stahl as Skyla, Lass and Hau, Cristina Vee as Bugsy and Phoebe, Tamara Ryan as Professor Bellis, Tom Bauer as Brock, Phil Reich as Will and Marshal, Kayli Mills as Rosa The Great Butler (talk) 03:01, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

I implemented all of that information into their "Trivia" sections in the meantime. Do you happen to know if these same VAs worked on the Pokémon Masters Animated Trailer? GrammarFreak01 (talk) 03:38, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

I don't have strong enough evidence to make that claim for any characters, unfortunately. The Great Butler (talk) 03:49, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Brianna Knickerbocker as Roxie and Viola The Great Butler (talk) 05:12, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Alejandro Saab as Roark The Great Butler (talk) 06:48, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Okay. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 09:07, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Kira Buckland as Shauntal, Liza, Beauty and Rising Star, Christine Cabanos as Acerola, Kimberly Woods as Youngster, Ryan Bartley as Korrina and Candice, Allegra Clark as Cynthia, Faye Mata as Trista, Trinnia and Tricia, Sean Chiplock as Siebold and Nanu, Aleks Le as Brendan, Bryce Papenbrook as Lear The Great Butler (talk) 03:31, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Given the size of the cast, I think it would make sense to have a table for the voice cast on this page. --SnorlaxMonster 03:45, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

I agree with this. This is going to be possibly the largest voice cast Bulbapedia has ever seen, there needs to be an easy to find place to collect it. The Great Butler (talk) 05:30, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

(resetting indent)I just realized the Detective Pikachu game article has a "Cast" section. Perhaps we could model this article's "Cast" section after that. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 21:37, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

This would be a good choice, imo. Also, Christopher Bevins as Brycen, Koga and Swimmer. The Great Butler (talk) 03:19, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Seems things are slowing down. Erik Kimerer as Barry and Grant The Great Butler (talk) 03:04, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

I'm hoping to create a "Cast" section for this article once I have the time. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 03:53, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Good idea. I'm looking forward to it. The Great Butler (talk) 05:55, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Same. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 19:47, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

It's been a while, but a new update: Zach Aguilar as Calem --The Great Butler (talk) 04:50, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

What about...

...a chapters section? I don't know but maybe it'll come in handy.......

--   『★¥♠§H♂』 (『†@!K™』) 17:31, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Oh, and I forgot to mention, do we need a subsection describing co-op battle mode? -- 『★¥♠§H♂』 (『†@!K™』) 17:35, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Definitely, it's a big part of the game, and is the only way to obtain gear I believe. Sir Cookie 21:58, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Pages for the Chapters and the Events...

Isn't it about time that we should make new pages for every chapter containing its plot, quotes, battles and recruited sync pair, etc.; I'm afraid it requires a large amount of time...

...and also the events..... --> 『★¥♠§H♂』 (『†@!K™』) 17:16, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

The question wasn't that hard, was it? --> 『★¥♠§H♂』 (『†@!K™』) 17:34, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Animated trailer of the Giovanni and Mewtwo legendary event

A short CGI trailer was released to introduce the legendary event featuring Giovanni and Mewtwo, using dedicated (not in-game) 3D models. Should this be covered on this wiki as well?--Mister Wu (talk) 00:45, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Page for Other events

I believe we should have one page for Other Events which gives more details. It will be good to have detailed reward descriptions. --Ozderya (talk) 05:01, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

No Android Release in Switzerland

Not quite sure how to add this to the Release table, but in Switzerland the game is only avaliable on iOS. I also don't know if Switzerland is the only country affected, but I'd guess it would be good if someone could check up on that. --mecanno-man^Discussion 20:13, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. --Abcboy (talk) 20:49, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Someone Help

I was trying to add on the rerun of the zinna event. But I screwed up please someone help! - unsigned comment from Connixstar08 (talk • contribs)

The Beast That Devours the Sun (Rerun)

Does any know when the new The Beast That Devours the Sun event ends?--ConNix 20:29, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Mudkip's & Marshtomp's Evolution

In Sync Pair Stories Category, It doesn't have an icon for Mudkip & Marshtomp icon. Can someone fix that, please and thank you--ConNix 14:59, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Done. Vmario97 (talk) 15:38, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Continuity evidence discussion

This is mostly in response to the recent trivia edit, but I figured it would be better to organize our evidence here.

Games canon to Masters

To recap: Certain events from the core series are stated to have happened before the main story of Masters EX. Evidence supporting this is scattered across the various sync pairs in Masters, as well as quotes in event stories and such. The identified games, as I understand them (based on the trivia edit and looking into things further), are:

• Kanto: Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen:
  • (FRLG) Leaf exists, and chose the remaining starter that Red and Blue did not.
  • (Alteration) Both Red and Leaf coexist in the same game, unlike in the original game
• Johto: Mix of Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver and Pokémon Crystal:
  • (HGSS) Lyra, Ariana, Archer, Proton, and Petrel all exist.
  • (Crystal) Kris exists.
  • (Crystal or HGSS) Eusine exists.
  • (Alteration) Both Ethan and Kris coexist in the same game, unlike in Crystal.
  • (conflict) the gen 4 Frontier Brains have the Sinnoh theme skill, but not the Johto theme skill.
• Hoenn: Mix of Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire and Pokémon Emerald:
  • (ORAS) The ORAS designs are used for all Hoenn characters, if applicable.
  • (Emerald) Hoenn's Frontier Brains exist.
  • (Emerald) Both Team Magma and Team Aqua are stated as previously being active in Hoenn.
• Sinnoh: Pokémon Platinum:
  • (Platinum) Cynthia has previously visited the Distortion World, and Cyrus was defeated there.
  • (Platinum): Gen 4's Frontier Brains appear, and they have the Sinnoh theme skill.
  • (DP) Dawn, Lucas, and Barry use their DP designs instead of Platinum designs.
• Unova, part 1: Pokémon Black
  • (Black) Hilbert is the Hero of Truth, and N is the Hero of Ideals.
• Unova part 2: Pokémon Black 2 and White 2
  • Nate, Rosa, Roxie, and Marlon exist.
  • Pokéstar Studios exists.
  • Colress uses his BW2 design (as opposed to his SM/USUM design).
  • Cheren, Bianca, Elesa, Iris, and Ghetsis use their designs from BW2.
• Kalos: Pokémon X and Y
  • Unclear which one.
• Alola: Pokémon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon
  • (USUM) Lusamine mentions previously meeting a Necrozma that she considered "a menace to be defeated".
  • (not SM) Lusamine does not seem to mention being possessed/poisoned by Nihilego and her subsequent recovery, from SM.
  • (SM) Elio and Selene use their SM designs.
  • (Alteration) Both Elio and Selene coexist in the same game, unlike in the original game
• Galar: Pokémon Sword
  • (Sword) Gloria owns Zacian, and Hop owns Zamazenta.
  • (Alteration) Both Victor and Gloria coexist in the same game, unlike in the original game
• Hisui: Pokémon Legends: Arceus
  • Rei, Akari, Adaman, and Irida exist.
• Paldea: Pokémon Scarlet
  • (Scarlet) Nemona is wearing a Naranja Academy uniform.

Characters that exist outside of Masters continuity

• Giovanni mentions previously forming and disbanding Team Rainbow Rocket.
• Cyrus has never heard of the Distortion World, and states that he was about to use Dialga and Palkia to remake the world when he was interrupted by Hoopa's ring summon. This Cyrus is likely the alternate dimension one from USUM, where he came from a world in which his plan succeeded.
• Jessie and James are from the alternate movie continuity .
• Ash is from the the main anime's continuity.

Status of the protagonists in Masters

• Red is the protagonist of FireRed and LeafGreen, with Blue as his rival.
  • Red's starter is Charizard
  • Red was 100% the Champion of the Kanto region, there is a need to provide evidence of this.
• Ethan is the protagonist of HeartGold and SoulSilver/Crystal, with Silver as his rival and Lyra as the NPC character.
  • Ethan's starter is Typhlosion, based on Silver having Feraligatr, plus Ethan's current Typhlosion could have been the child of his original starter, like with Hilbert's Samurott.
  • As far as I know, there is no hint that Ethan is the Champion of Johto.
  • The only hint to Ethan and Red's possible battle at Mt. Silver, is Ethan saying "Darn, I really thought I was going to win today" in the story event Threads of Strength, which is still very vague. It is clear that they had a battle before, but the winner isn't made clear, as the quote could be interpreted as Ethan thinking he was FINALLY going to defeat Red, or that he had defeated Red before but lost this current battle.
• Brendan is the protagonist of Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire/Emerald, with May as his rival.
  • Brendan's starter is most likely Sceptile, based on May's starter being Blaziken, plus Brendan's current Sceptile could have been the child of his original starter, like with Hilbert's Samurott.
  • As far as I know, there is only one hint that Brendan is the Champion of Hoenn, as during the Villain Arc one of the Team Magma grunts reacts to seeing Brendan by saying "You are Hoenn's..." and then gets cut off.
• Dawn is the protagonist of Platinum, with Barry as her rival and Lucas being Professor Rowan's assistant.
  • Currently unknown, as it is never stated that her Torterra is the child of her original starter, plus it contradicts with Lucas having Infernape, which has the type advantage against Torterra. She could have received Torterra from Barry as an Egg, like how Gloria received Cinderace from Hop, or simply Masters is breaking the canon of the original game by having her starter be Torterra.
  • As far as I know, there is one hint that Dawn might be the Champion of Sinnoh. Dawn mentions that she caught her Cresselia in Sinnoh, after chasing her throughout the region. A clear reference to Cresselia being a roaming Pokémon, which only starts roaming after the player defeats Cynthia.
• Hilbert is the protagonist of Pokémon Black, with Hilda being the Battle Subway Partner.
  • Hilbert's starter is Samurott.
  • As far as I know, there is no hint that Hilbert is the Champion of Unova, but this isn't a big deal as being Unova's Champion is 100% optional in the game.
• Rosa is the protagonist of either Black 2 or White 2, with her rival being Hugh and Nate being the Battle Subway Partner.
  • Rosa's starter could be Serperior, as it could be the child of her original starter, like with Hilbert's Samurott. But it shouldn't be assumed until we see Nate and Hugh's starters.
  • As far as I know, there is no hint that Rosa is the Champion of Unova.
• Serena is the protagonist of either X or Y, with her rival being Calem.
  • Serena's starter could be Delphox, as it could be the child of her original starter, like with Hilbert's Samurott. It also has a type advantage against Shauna's Chesnaught (assuming that Chesnaught is her true starter), although this brings up the question of how she received Greninja.
  • Serena's starter could also be Greninja, and she simply received Delphox from an egg from Shauna (assuming that Chesnaught isn't her true starter, which would make Delphox her true starter). Although this assumes that Greninja isn't Calem's true starter.
  • As far as I know, there is no hint that Serena is the Champion of Kalos.
• Is unclear who the protagonists of Ultra Sun or Ultra Moon are. Although it seems to lean towards Elio, as he knows who the Masked Royal is, and Kukui recognizes his strength. We know the Champion of Alola exists, as Kukui mentions that the player reminds him of their Champion.
• Gloria is the protagonist of Pokémon Sword, with her rival being Hop.
  • Gloria's starter is Inteleon
  • Leon is still referred to be the Unbeatable Champion, even though by the end of the game's main story, Leon shouldn't still be the Champion of Galar. Leon has also been defeated during the course of the game's events, so it is possible Leon has been defeated, but is still called the Unbeatable Champion. I don't remember if it was ever stated that Gloria and Leon ever battled during the Galar League, and if they did battle, did she win or lose?
• Rei is the protagonist of Legends: Arceus, with Akari being Professor Laventon's assistant.
  • Rei's starter is Hisuian Decidueye
• As of this moment, it is currently unknown who the protagonist of Pokémon Scarlet is.

Things that need to be cleared up

• Was it ever stated that characters from Alola battle Team Rainbow Rocket? If not, this could imply that Episode RR never happened in this game's continuity. If they do, this could imply that Team Rainbow Rocket which arrived in Pasio, is the same one that attacked Aether Paradise in this game's continuity.
• Are Ariana, Archer, Proton, and Petrel from this game's continuity, or are they from the same world as Giovanni?
• Are the other villainous teams from this game's continuity, or are they from a different world like Cyrus
• Are Rose and Oleana from a different world where Rose has not caused the Darkest Day, or were they taken from a point in time before Rose caused the Darkest Day? (There is a difference, as both multiverse and time travel exist in the Pokémon canon)
• Are there two versions of Grimsley in the game. I don't think they are, but some fans seem to think so, as his base and Kimono outfit seem to have aged the character. It could be simply explained away by saying that Grimsley dyed his hair to look younger.
• Has Red and Blue experince Pokémon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon? As far as I know, there are no references to them being co-leaders of Alola's Battle Tree. This of course could be answered in the future, but I brought it up as the game implied that some characters are from different points in time, due to Hoopa's rings or the space-time rifts. Red and Blue also don't use their Alola designs, but then again as stated earlier, some characters use their design from different games, despite not being from those games.
• Is there any evidence that any of the player characters are Champions?
• What are the alterations to the Sword and Shield games? Besides Victor and Gloria co-existing, Marnie isn't a Gym Leader of Spikemuth despite her becoming one in the post-game, which did happen because Gloria and Hop both have Zacian and Zamazenta, and Hop also wants to become a Pokémon Professor. Leon is still the Champion of Galar despite the fact he should have been dethroned before the events of the post-game. How do they handle Alister & Bea/Gordie & Melony sharing the same Gyms? Do they swap like in Pokémon Adventures, or do both Gyms exist kind of like in the anime except both are Gym Stadiums?

That's all I know of so far. If anybody has more evidence (or if more arises later), please bring it up. --Boblers (talk) 03:51, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

I divided the sections into "Games canon to Masters", "Characters that exist outside of Masters continuity", "Status of the protagonists in Masters" and "Things that need to be cleared up" along with adding some questions that need to be answered. Please feel free to answer or add more questions about the game's continuity. TBR2001 (talk) 21:21, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

A couple notes:

• Lyra explicitly states that she faced Red, at the beginning there likely was a division of the player character’s feat with Ethan facing Team Rocket and having Silver as rival, Kris catching Suicune and Lyra facing Red. However, with the addition of special lines of dialogue at the end of the battle in the Johto Villain Arc, Ethan now has special lines of dialogue when in the same team as Red, so it’s possible that he too faced Red.
  • Although Lyra did mention she once battled Red. there is no indication that she battled him on Mt. Silver. In the Masters' continuity, Lyra could have very likely battled Red in Pasio instead of on Mt. Silver, as she never mentioned where she first battled Red. This is the direct quote "Since we're on the topic, maybe I should challenge Red, too. We battled once before, but was it really a great battle?" There is the implication that she lost the battle against Red, but she never confirmed that she faced Red on Mt. Silver.
  • Kris never caught the Suicune she was chasing in the Masters' continuity. Here's a direct quote "I've grown so much since coming to Pasio...I wish I could show the Suicune I encountered back in Johto what I'm capable of now. And the person who chased Suicune around with me... I'd like to show them, too." "The first time I ever saw a Suicune was in the Johto region. Back then, I thought it would be so wonderful to be able to go on adventures with one... And now I have one by my side." These quotes state that Kris never caught the original Suicune from Crystal, and that her current Suicune is an entirely different one that she caught in Pasio.
• While the Alola continuity is largely the USUM one, Anabel is stated to be the head of the UB Task Force, so that part of the story seems to be drawn from SM.

—Mister Wu (talk) 11:16, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Anwserwed some questions regarding Lyra and Kris's role in the Masters' continuity.TBR2001 (talk) 17:13, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Regarding the questions brought up in the "Things that need to be cleared up" section:

• Giovanni mentions that Team Rainbow Rocket was stopped by "a certain kid", but otherwise nobody mentions Team Rainbow Rocket. And, for what it's worth, when Professor Bellis says that Team Rocket is back on Pasio during the Villain Arc, Lillie's response is "You mean that group that used Pokémon to carry out their evil plots in Kanto and Johto?" Not sure if that counts as explicit de-confirmation, but I feel like she would have mentioned Rainbow Rocket if she'd run into them before.
• Skimming through all the executives' quotes + the intro of the Johto villain arc, they are 100% loyal to the Giovanni on Pasio, and Ariana even mentions that they're serving him "again". That would seem to indicate that either they're from the same continuity as Giovanni, or they don't know that Giovanni is from an alternate continuity.
  • I guess it's still too soon to make a definitive statement that their from a different world. Although I feel like they are just loyal to Giovanni no matter what, and don't really care that it's not "their" Giovanni they are following.
• Giovanni and Cyrus are definitely from different worlds. Archie, Maxie, Lysandre, Lusamine, and Guzma don't seem to be. Leon says in Galar VA that "Those two over there...might be Chairman Rose and Oleana from before they caused the Darkest Day in Galar", so time travel is definitely the intended explanation there. Ghetsis is the trickiest one, but I think he also traveled through time. He arrived on Pasio through one of Hoopa's rings, and it seems he already had Kyurem at that point. When he finds out later that N and Nate already know about Kyurem's fusion ability, he says "Oh, so you knew about that. I was hoping you'd be more surprised." This would seem to imply that he was taken sometime during the events of B2W2, after catching Kyurem but before the confrontation in the Giant Chasm.
  • I guess I should get rid of any mention of Rose and Oleana being from a different world, and only mention they are from the past. Although Leon probably doesn't truly know if they are from the past, it is to safe assume with these kinds of things that this is what the developers wanted us to think. Plus if the developers change their minds later, they could always retcon it and say that Leon was wrong. I think Ghetsis is supposed to be from a different world, not from the past. It would be weird if in this game's continuity, Ghetsis was sent to the future, learned he lost, and was sent back to the past, only to be defeated. I do agree he was taken after he caught Kyurem but before the confrontation in the Giant Chasm, but I think he would have won if Hoopa hadn't taken him, like how Cyrus was taken by Hoopa when he was about to create a new world. Also, did Ghetsis ever mention that he was about to confront the player from the original game before he was teleported by Hoopa's ring? Because I can't find any quote that states this.
• Regular Grimsley and Kimono Grimsley literally share all their voice lines. They're the same character.
• I don't know of any references to Red and Blue having visited Alola at all, so I don't think they've experienced USUM.
• I'm not 100% sure if they ever explicitly call Red the Kanto Champion, but Blue mentions several times that he's a former Champion of Kanto, and that Red is the one who beat him. As far as evidence for other protags goes:
  • When you first meet Iris, Rosa says "We became friends through Pokémon battling back in the Unova region. Iris is the Champion there, you know!" which seems to imply that she's battled Iris before. She could have lost, though.
  • Diantha mentions that she "once traded [her] Pokémon to a Trainer who challenged [her] for [her] Champion title", which is likely referring to the Ralts that she trades the player in the postgame of X and Y. Serena mentions having met Wikstrom and Siebold, which would seem to indicate that she at least battled the Kalos Elite Four. So, she probably battled Diantha as well, though we don't know what the outcome was.
  • In Trials on the Isle, Elio and Selene suggest that Kahili should become Alola's Champion, indicating that neither of them is a Champion. However, Kukui says in one of his Pokémon Center conversations that Alola's Champion is around the same age as the player. So...there must be some multiverse shenanigans going on there.
    • I don't think that the dialogue suggests that Elio or Selene aren't the Champion of Alola, I took it that they think Kahili should try and become a Champion by challenging one of them for the title. Kahili thinks that the title of Champion should belong to the next generation of Trainers like Elio and Selene, at least that's how I interpret it. Although multiverse would explain why Elio and Selene share so many similarities to the protagonists of the Alola games, I think the game would imply more that Elio or Selene aren't from the Masters' continuity.
  • Gloria is definitely not the Champion of Galar. As recently as her challenge uniform alt, she refers to Leon as "the unbeatable Champion". And unlike in other regions, where the rules of succession for the Champion title are a little nebulous, the Galar League has really clear rules: only one Champion at a time, and the new Champion is crowned by defeating the previous one in the Champion Cup.
    • Did they ever imply that Gloria and Leon fought for the title of Champion? It could be possible that in the Masters' continuity, Gloria and Leon never battle for the title of Champion after the Darkest Day, but still experience the events of the post-game. Then again, she could have simply lost the battle.

Just continuing the discussion, and adding one more question. TBR2001 (talk) 07:06, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

1) Regarding the alterations to Sword and Shield, I think the ones mentioned are the only changes. As for the version-exclusive leaders, Gordie, Melony, Bea, and Allister all mention the fact that they're Gym Leaders and/or have Gyms, but it doesn't seem any of them mentions where their Gym is. So, the simplest explanation would be that two of them are in the major league and the other two are in the minor league. Bea does mention that she trains "under the pressure of dropping to the minor division", which seems to imply that she's a major league Gym Leader.

2) On the topic of the Ghetsis thing, at the end of the Unova Villain Arc, Ghetsis says that this is the third time his plans were thwarted by "such pitiful fools" (referring to N, Hugh, and the protags). If the first time is BW, and the third time is the Villain Arc, then the second time would have to be B2W2, right? So Ghetsis may have already lost to the B2W2 protag after all.

3) Lastly, skimming through Gloria's and Leon's quotes, there's nothing indicating whether Gloria battled Leon back in Galar or not.

As an aside, TBR, I appreciate you making a note when you've added things to previous points the discussion, but please don't add things into previous comments in the future. As the talk page policy says, "New comments in a section must always go at the bottom of the section, regardless of where the comment being replied to is in the discussion; this helps keep comments in order and prevents confusion as to what had been discussed prior to specific comments." I couldn't tell what you had added without going through the page history and finding the revision of the page where you added them. Storm Aurora (talk) 01:31, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

(resetting indent) Does all the continuity evidence really need to be relegated to the trivia section? There's clearly a lot to discuss; I kinda feel like it should be moved into a separate article. I recently remembered while looking at their pages that A Golden Future and Chase the Northern Wind both show flashbacks of Ethan being the protag, for example, and those would be nice to mention. It's interesting stuff, and I feel like it'd be nice to collect all of it in an actual article instead of this talk page discussion. Storm Aurora (talk) 01:47, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

A separate article would be great, actually! Looking at everything laid out like this, we certainly have enough info to justify one. Maybe we can model it off of the Canon article? --Boblers (talk) 02:34, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

I was thinking of structuring it more like the List of character ages article: a section for each region, a list of bullet points for all the core series events we know happened for each region, and sub-bullet points for the evidence of those events having occurred. Alternate timeline/universe characters would also get separate sections, I guess? Storm Aurora (talk) 04:19, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Version history split

While the version history tables are automatically collapsed, they're quite massive once they're expanded, and a bit unwieldy to browse through. I think we should move these to a "Pokémon Masters EX/Version history" subpage, and perhaps break it up further into 1.x.x and 2.x.x. Basically, something similar to what was done for Pokémon Shuffle/Version history. --Boblers (talk) 22:29, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable to me. It's always bothered me that the iOS table includes the text from the in-game update notification while the Android table doesn't (making it seem like that info isn't accessible in the Android version or something), so maybe we could restructure it so that it's organized per update rather than per platform? Storm Aurora (talk) 02:13, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Done. I merged iOS and Android tables, added the icons, changed the width of the columns so it looks better, and broke it into each year of the game. Suggestions to make it even better are appreciated. It would also be good if someone could look for possible mistakes I might've made. --rafael.zinho (talk) 20:26, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Similar to the Shuffle history page, should the tables on Masters EX history also be made collapsed? → PikaTepig999 20:47, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

I thought the table of contents in the beginning of the page would make collapsible tables unnecessary, but I tried it and it does make it better. Added. --rafael.zinho (talk) 21:08, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

(resetting indent) Does anyone feel that the icons for each version should be moved to the Version History page, with only the current icons on this main page? Most of them don't even have any (easily noticeable) difference between the iOS and Android versions, so i'm stumped why there are two images for each icon. But regardless, the earlier versions icons would fit better on the version history page. → PikaTepig999 20:39, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

I think having a gallery containing all the icons is nice, and the version history page is already bigger than this entire article in terms of bytes. My vote's on keeping the icons on the main page. For what it's worth, I don't notice any differences between the iOS and Android icons, so it does feel redundant to have them both in the gallery section. But since we already have the icons as separate files, we'd have to pick one version to keep in the article, and I don't want one version to appear prioritized over the other. Storm Aurora (talk) 19:14, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

I also think keeping it on the main page is better. The difference between iOS and Android icons is usually the background. --rafael.zinho (talk) 03:58, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Cast list

It has come to my attention that there was a discussion about putting a cast list on this page years ago for the voice actors, but that never happened. It doesn't seem that there's a reason it never happened, either, aside from "no one ever got around to it", so I'd like to propose again that we make one. Since there are something like 200 characters in the game now, though, I wonder if it'd be better to put the list on a subpage... Anyone want to start working on it, or have thoughts about whether it'd be better suited for the main page or a subpage? Storm Aurora (talk) 00:34, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Kalos canon version + Rose and Oleana

Here some dialogues from Sycamore's legendary episode.

Calem: Could that be... Xerneas?

Serena: It's so beautiful!

The dialogue of both protagonists heavly imply this is the first time they ever see Xerneas or that they never had the opportunity to see the Pokémon so clearly, with Calem that ask if that Pokémon is actually Xerneas and Serena showing surprise for his beautiful appearence, meaning, they never fought it in TF's base.

Serena: Lysandre!

Calem: What are you doing here?

Lysandre: What, does it really surprise you that I'm here?

Lysandre show clearly surprise for them being so surprise to see him on Pasio. And actually is a odd reaction when Pasio already had so many criminals already with Giovanni and Cyrus. Lysandre is clearly saying that, because he see the characters over reacting for him being there. Yhea, he show to know the characters, but that don't prove he isn't from another universe. People already showed to be unaware if a character is from another universe or not. All characters act like if RR Giovanni was the main universe Giovanni, despite we know being two different "characters". So, showing to know someone isn't a proof for say he came from another universe. Plus, considering the protagonists seems to have seen Xerneas for the first time, mean the Ultimate Weapon crumbled with the ray with Yveltal's energy, meaning main universe Lysandre is dead.

Lysandre: However, will you still be able to stand strong, even with THIS as your opponent?

-send Yveltal-

Lydandre: Show me the flames of your convinctions.

Serena: Yveltal?! Why?

and here Serena clearly show to already know Yveltal, opposing with Xerneas that seems she saw for the first time, or at least for the first time so near, while here she immediatly reconize Yveltal, and she is the first one to name "Yveltal". Also, that "Why?" Seems she is also surprised that Yveltal stand with Lysandre, and seeing the events of Pokémon Y, that is indeed weird, since Lysandre never actually got Yveltal. This seems more the Lysandre that will became part of the RR, or at least a Lysandre more similar to that one.

Yet, no matter what, the event clearly show the characters that don't seems to know Xerneas, and Serena that immediatly reconize Yvelta instead. This point out the canon version is indeed Y, instead of X. And again, between the protagonists and Lysandre point out some inconsistencies between the two groups: They seems extremly surprised to see Lysandre there. While Lysandre don't understand why they are so surprised. Also, considering the dialogues points out they know Yveltal way better then Xerneas, mean TF used Yveltal for their plan, meaning Lysandre died since victim of the Ultimate Weapon's ray with Yveltal's energies. And that is perfectly connected to their surprise.

Now, for Rose and Oleana. Time travel in Masters is something never used except for the space-time rifts, and not only them is said to be the reason for the arrival of Hisui characters on Pasio, and space-time rift make sense to be used only on Hisui, since they don't exist on Galar. So...there is no reason to think Galar villains arrived on Pasio with time travel, since is something NEVER mentioned at all. Actually, if we take in consideration time travel (despite NOTHING point out of it), then is completly arbitrary to say Galar villains came from another time, while Cyrus and Ghetsis that came in the same exact way are from others universes.--Zarxiel94 (talk) 06:47, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

I forgot, we can definitely say that these characters didn't just time travel, because that would mess up the main universe, since if that were the case, the villains would have been aware of their crimes during the events of the games and it would create time paradoxes. So, not only is there no evidence that time travel is involved, but it would mess up the continuity of the main games.

also, I forgot about the video link for Lysandre: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4Yw8ytsG94

--Zarxiel94 (talk) 07:03, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

The Lysandre on Pasio cannot be the one from Rainbow Rocket, because RR Lysandre explicitly says "if my world had a Trainer like you, the path I chose could have been different" (referring to the USUM protag). Meanwhile, the Lysandre on Pasio has met Calem and Serena before. I suppose it's possible that he could be from a third universe (not RR and not Masters), but that seems like the more complicated solution. As for recognizing Yveltal right away, there are plenty of places that Serena could have learned about it besides battling it at Team Flare's HQ. I'll acknowledge their reactions to Xerneas are a little strange if they've seen it before, but I'm not sure if that's strong enough evidence to say that Y is the canon version. I feel like we should just say we can't tell which version happened.

However, even if we do come to a consensus that Calem and Serena not recognizing Xerneas = Y is canon, I don't think we should say that the Lysandre on Pasio is from an alternate universe. Given that slight alterations to canon are common in Masters, it's entirely possible that Lysandre used Yveltal to power the Ultimate Weapon and didn't die afterwards. For the same reason, I'm a little hesitant to say that Black 2 is canon just because Black is. N has both Zekrom and Reshiram, after all.

Regarding Rose, Oleana, and Ghetsis, I addressed this in the previous continuity discussion, but I don't think any of them are from a different universe. We're given a theory as to where Rosa and Oleana came from at the very beginning of the Villain Arc. Since we're never given any evidence explicitly contradicting that theory afterwards, I think it's safe to say that theory is the intended explanation for where Rose and Oleana came from:

Victor: "People who have come to Pasio have been saying...that after they arrive, they sometimes remember or acknowledge things slightly differently than their friends... Maybe, for some reason, there are people coming to Pasio from a slightly different time?"

Sonia: "Many strange things do happen on Pasio..."

Leon: "Which means those two over there...might be Chairman Rose and Oleana from before they caused the Darkest Day in Galar."

Victor explicitly says "different time", not "different world" or "different universe". So time travel is the intended explanation for them. Meanwhile, Ghetsis says in the Unova Villain Arc, "Not only once...but twice! No! This is the third time! I can't believe I keep getting thwarted by such pitiful fools!" which is a reference to a line he says in B2W2: "And I've lost to some unknown Trainer not once, but TWICE?!" So, he must be the same Ghetsis that was defeated in BW1 and BW2. Storm Aurora (talk) 21:07, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Except for Lear and maybe the people close to him, people aren't aware of Hoopa bringing up people on Pasio, so, them being unaware of this make sense for them theorizing on time travel shananingans, and in Masters there is nothing that can make people time travel, but we know there is Hoopa for the multiverse, but for time travel there is nothing concrete, while for the multiverse we have indeed.

Ghetsis is weird... since he clearly show surprise to the characters knowing Kyurem being able to fuse, something that he wouldn't be if he "lived" all the events of B2W2. This seems to be an inconsistency to be honest... not different from Grimsley saying never was on Alola for then have an entire skin that completly contradict this... and btw, being taken from a universe chronologically prior of the main one isn't so much different from time travel, the only difference is they don't bring any problem with paradoxes, since is another universe, and would still be coherent with Hoopa and everything instead of bring time travel out of nowhere and without any explanation.--Zarxiel94 (talk) 22:05, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

"In Masters there is nothing that can make people time travel" except for Celebi, and Dialga, and space-time rifts... We don't know anything about how Rosa and Oleana came to Pasio, so it's equally likely that they could've traveled from the past or from a different universe. However, as I said before, the suggested explanation in-universe is "they're from a different time", so I think that's the best way to present the information in this article. Masters hasn't established any rules about how time travel works, so there are any number of explanations as to why coming from a different time doesn't cause paradoxes: maybe changing things in the past doesn't affect the future because it creates a separate timeline, or maybe everyone who was brought to Pasio in the present will eventually be returned to the same point in the past that they came from, or maybe "different time" actually means "different timeline" aka "different universe". We should present the facts as we know them in-game and let people come to their own conclusions. Storm Aurora (talk) 22:26, 18 August 2024 (UTC)