Talk:Ash Ketchum/Archive 4

ASH'S AGE IS INDETERMINATE! AS OF EPISODE 1, HE IS 10 AS FAR AS IT'S KNOWN! PLEASE DO NOT POST ABOUT IT!

Previous discussions

• Archive 1
• Archive 2
• Archive 3

Trivia

In the trivia it says about Ash never catching a Pokemon when he has 6 in his party and then gives many exceptions, hardly a worthy piece of trivia, I would suggest removing it but I am afraid of back-lash from other users, so can anyone give their consensus. Guardian of Earth 20:27, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Krabby was at the beginning, there are 30 of those Tauros and Beedrill went straight to Casey. I think the fact is worth mentioning but I'm not sure how to reword it. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 23:11, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

If thirty Tauros at once counts as many exceptions... TTEchidna 23:59, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Ash Sprite

I made a sprite of Ash: File:Ash Sprite.png I used Lucas (since they are very similar) and changed some features. How is it?--Taviource 20:50, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I say very good!--KukiTalk 21:00, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Kuki, you should talk to my younger brother, Diamaster. Does anyone have anything else for me to make?--Taviource 21:03, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

How about we go through it together? Oh, how about giving Mimey a broom in its sprite on Delia's page?--KukiTalk 21:05, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll get to it. Feel free to e-mail me anytime you come with an idea. You are like my manager, or somewhat my boss. This works well.--Taviource 21:07, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Should we start from the beginning?--KukiTalk 21:14, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I've just finished Mimey's sprite. I'm ready for the list!--Taviource 21:24, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

It's good but is there any point of putting that in the Article? --Force Fire 09:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, last time we did this to Tyson's Meowth, the Cat got the Boot (Geddit? Geddit? Oh forget it...) It's the Θρtιmαtum♏^Talk|Links10:11 6 Jun 2008

I have to agree... the sprites are neat (sort of; I've definitely seen better), but they don't really belong in the articles. Just because a Pokémon dresses differently doesn't mean it's not the same Pokémon. --Martonimos_{((Argh|Blargh))} 05:52, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

All he was trying to do was give the Pokémon some individuality. I'm not sure I'm for the modified sprites of humans but we should let the Pokémon stay. Especially if they are tweaked just so slightly that it barely makes a difference. Like Ash's Sceptile. You can't say that looked bad. --☆ケンジガール 06:08, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I understand that. And I guess the less obtrusive ones are OK (this is all just my opinion, anyway). But don't put "sprite by Taviource" on the pages; that's just advertising, which shouldn't be in the main namespace. It's fine that you put it on the images themselves; that way, people who are interested in the sprites can follow them to you, and people who aren't don't think you're a whore. --Martonimos_{((Argh|Blargh))} 06:33, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that was a little out-of-bounds on his part. Still I think the Pokémon ones are cool.--☆ケンジガール 06:40, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I can't say that Sceptile looks bad but I can say that it looks incorrect since it had a different twig to Treecko/Grovyle. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 11:07, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but i just dont think that traviource's edits ar good enough.I personally think that they should be put back to normal or if it's allowed, http://pokesho.com/icon.html has really nice personalized sprites.I know there's a copyright rule but if you translate the page it says: Pokemon Icon Collection Freedom to use. Anywway, i dont know, but that was my thought.--Riot464

We want them to b somewhat, actuall mostly based off the games.--KukiTalk 19:58, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Sweet! Pokemonboy 08:39, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

It looks like you used Red as a scratch, not Lucas. -Metagross72

Remarkable!--adyniz 12:58, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah it looks like Ash if he were in Pokemon Emerald -Usyflad10

Sun Stone

does anyone know what happened to his sun stone from the bug catching contest? Mooites 23:55, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

He used it on a Sunkern in EP187--KukiTalk 23:58, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Not much of a waste since Misty missed the "Water-type" she tried to catch in EP010. TTEchidna 02:01, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Alternate Sprites

Oh, since we're on the subject, let's change the MS sprites too! >.> No, seriously, what difference would it make even if we DID have alternate sprites? The best we could do is Shiny Noctowl, and it's an official sprite. Squirtle appeared mostly without its glasses, thus, GET RID OF THEM. Primape and the belt? Wow! The belt got stuck on him for ten minutes and you already want to put it there??? Seriously, folks, ARE WE USING THE ALTERNATE SPRITES OR WHAT? It's the Θρtιmαtum♏^Talk|Links07:38 7 Jun 2008

In my opinion, we shouldn't be using these altered sprites. As Optimus35 pointed out, most of these alterations are things that appeared for a few minutes in a few episodes. More importantly, the Bulbapedia is not a place for fan art. If the artist is trying to showcase their art, the Bulbapedia is not the way to do it. Trainer-c 12:52, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I concur, sort of. Taivource does seem to be on a "Everyone behold my cool sprites." binge. Kenji-girl seems to like the Treecko-line ones, though (and to be fair, they are good). - Cassius335 12:56, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Just because we're an encyclopedia of Pokémon doesn't mean every sprite on every page has to be EXACTLY out of a game, does it? PL12 13:00, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

If it was a commonly re-occurring theme, then an alternate sprite singles it out as unique, which could be gathered from what I know about the Treeko and evolutions. Gywall 13:01, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

WE ARE USING THE ALTERNATE SPRITES, except for the trainer ones, and I actually might've put the yellow stars on Janina's Onix. And, for example Taisei's Piplup wore the tiara all episode--KukiTalk 13:05, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

OH, ARE WE NOW? Thanks for being so open to discussion, Kuki. - Cassius335 13:11, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

What's that supposed to mean. And Squirtle's glasses, as leader of the squirtle Squad, he's wearing them all the time probably--KukiTalk 13:19, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

If it is a significant part of their character design (eg. Noctowl, Treecko/Grovyle without the flower/Sceptile, maybe Squirtle) it is worth featuring the altered sprites. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 13:30, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Exactly they are not just any ordinary Squirtle, Onix, Piplup, or Dustox, there is a special piece of design that seperates them from the ordinary ones. Guardian of Earth 17:06, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Exactly. They each have their own significant and reminds us all about all the good times in the anime.--Taviource 17:10, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Plus, Dustox, Squirtle, Primeape, and Butterfree belong/ed to main characters. And remember how we did an alternate sprite for May's Venusaur as a Bulbasaur--KukiTalk 17:16, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

We did?--Taviource 17:19, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Not we, but Bulbapedia as a community. The link is there, hover over Bulbasaur, and voila! PROOF!--KukiTalk 17:24, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

For the record, I entirely disagree with the Onix sprite. (She tried cheating one time and then had to wash it off.) But this is Ash's talk page so let's stick to those sprites here. The consensus seems to be to keep the alternate sprites and they don't hurt. Are there any valid reasons to not have them? --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 17:49, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Also, Grovyle needs to lose the flower and Sceptile's twig needs correcting. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 17:49, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Remember, shortly b4 Grovyle evolved, the flower bloomed? Thus the flower stays!--KukiTalk 17:53, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

It was actually wwhen Meganium used Synthesis--KukiTalk 17:58, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

But that is the main point against some of the sprites: It was a normal twig for almost the entire time it was on the show. For the character design argument to work, you have to actually show its normal character design. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 18:01, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

But what if he changes the twig? Can the sprites stay? PL12 18:03, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it just needs a little editing. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 18:13, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Sceptile can have less attention. But what about Nurse Joy's Chansey with the hat? That also keeps on getting deleted.--Taviource 18:09, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

This is not Nurse Joy's page, but that is also a common character design. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 18:13, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I fixed Joy's page, and added the Pokémon she gave to Stephanie and her dad in AGO34--KukiTalk 18:15, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Alright. Thanks, Fabu-Vinny. Thanks, Kuki....but can I fix the Sceptile sprite?--Taviource 18:29, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Sure, cuz I dunno how--KukiTalk

This is getting downright ridiculous. What do a few pixels matter? I agree with Squirtle and the Treecko family, but Butterfree with scarf and Primeape with belt? Guys, PLEASE, stop having so many alternate sprites!!!

And, I thought I removed Grovyle's flower. Please, people. Keep this up and we'll eternally ban you from the archives (and Bulbapedia, I guess...) if you keep reuploading and uploading thesep ics. I know you put much effort into them but...They're putting quite a load on the server. That's why there are 26,570 files in the Archive while we only need 26000. It's the Θρtιmαtum♏^Talk|Links02:16 8 Jun 2008

I kinda agree, especially because they're low quality sprites. Take it from someone who has been spriting for a long time. They aren't good. tc26 02:20, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

You are totally unfair! The majority of support is for the alternate sprites and then you threaten them with blocking because they don't agree with you. I know we are not the same as Wikipedia but on wiki we have consensus where the majority of support wins, or is this an admin dictatorship. Guardian of Earth 08:52, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

You do realise that your 'majority' is completely made out of inexperienced users (Excluding Kuki and PL12, who I consider adequate in MediaWIki skills) who barely know that <span style=" font-family=Comic Sans MS";> will give you text in Comic Sans. People! In the past year (Let's call it the Jurassic), plenty of things have happened. Several vandal attacks. Several fake vandals (Including this account -anime sweatdrop-). These helped to mature our users. Your 'majority' arrived about the late Cretaceous. You know what would happen if you keep it up? That's right. The Cretaceous–Tertiary extinction event. Do you want Bulbapedia to overload? Do you want our hard work to fall through the hole? People! If you want to change Bulbapedia's standards, GET YER OWN WIKI!!! It's the Θρtιmαtum♏^Talk|Links06:23 9 Jun 2008

Don't be so melodramatic. The community as a whole is keeping a better eye on it than that... - Cassius335 11:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Kuki is an experienced user???????????????????? Guardian of Earth 10:03, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Kenji-Girl supports alternate sprites, she is very profesional. Guardian of Earth 10:04, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

And your point is? ~Crystal~Lucario~ 11:21, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd navigated this site before becoming a user--KukiTalk 14:16, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

My point Crystal, is that earlier the comment was made that only un-experienced users supported these sprites and Kenji-Girl is more profesional than most and has common sense, and doesn't jump to conclusions which is more than can be said for some Guardian of Earth 18:39, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm an admin and I support some of the sprites...

But things really need to calm down here. It certainly isn't worth creating a riot over. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 18:58, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks and I agree with you now.--Taviource 19:00, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, we should keep the squirtle and butterfree sprites, since that was how they were last seen.--Starlight_the_ampharos 21:31, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I concur Ampharos. The squirtle and butterfree sprites should be kept, but not primeape's belt or buneary's vest. We are getting way too far out there..... --Catu42 22:36, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Why is Butterfree more special than Primeape? Also, the argument against the vest has weakened now that Buneary wears it so frequently. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 13:17, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

That last piece of trivia

For some reason I can't delete that piece of trivia at he bottom of the list and Ireally need to for one simple reason. Its totally wrong. It can't be a trend of Ash catching a flying type, grass, fire and then water because it happens once! Kanto- bug, flying, grass, fire, water. Thats got bug at the start. Johto- bug, grass, fire, water, flying. Noctowl was caught after cyndaquil and he had heracross. Hoenn- flying, grass, water, fire. Water and fire are the wrong way round. Kanto is a main region and so the battle fronteir arc has only the capture of aipom, a normal tyoe. It can't be a trend if it only happens in 1 region! Because I can't delete it for some reason I implore you to get rid of it. A trend has to happen alot more than once. TheAlmightyChris 21:55, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

You can't delete it because Fabu-Vinny protected the page (have a look at the page history). - Cassius335 00:34, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I guessed that was the reason. However that really doesn't stop it being wrong and there TheAlmightyChris 16:34, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Ash dressing up

In this article it mentions ash's three times cross dressing and his two time having to dress up as fruit. What it doesn't mention is the number of times he has to dress up as an actual pokemon. I can only remember him being Mr. Mime in 'Mr. Mime Time' and as an Octillery in 'Octillery the Outcast'. Im pretty sure there are a few others, can anyone remember, thnx! I just somehow have feeling there may be a few more beside the one's i have said and the one below - unsigned comment from Dragonboy (talk • contribs)

I remember him dressing up as Seviper to teach Nicolai's Zangoose how to battle with one. --☆ケンジガール 06:00, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Electric Tale of Pikachu - Needed Verification

Did ash have a Beedrill in Electric Tale of Pikachu manga? Don't remember it. I think someone spreads fake information. I also don't remember any Mankey traded for a fake map. Can anyone verify these informations? --Maxim 10:43, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

No he did not. However, in the second issue, he caught a Mankey, which he did trade for a map. It wasn't actually fake, just very poorly drawn. MidnightCeltic 20:36, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

He catches Beedrill with Mankey. Lunick v sonela 15:42, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Agh so close to hitting it...

But still under the wondrous 10% of all Pokémon. C'mon, Chimchar, evolve soon! TTEchidna 03:37, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

In the article, it says : "The most badges Ash has ever gotten in the first thirty-five episodes were five badges in Kanto, which makes sense considering that Kanto was significantly shorter than any other saga (aside from the Orange Island saga and the Battle Frontier saga). In every other region thus far, he has only won two badges in the first thirty-five episodes." It's wrong : he had 6 badges by EP035, as he won : Boulder Badge in EP005 Cascade Badge in EP007 Thunder Badge in EP014 Marsh Badge in EP024 Rainbow Badge in EP026 Soul Badge in EP032

Befriending Movie Pokemon(IMPORTANT)

We've discussed this and since May has Manaphy, Max has Jirachi, I think Ash should have Latias and Lucario! Any1 agree?--KukiTalk 12:36, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

In none of that discussion has anyone given a decent reason for why the list of Pokémon owned by Ash should have a section for Pokémon he was simply friendly with. It has to much potential to get out of hand. May's page has had Manaphy removed before and Max is the exception because he doesn't own any Pokémon to begin with. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 18:59, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

There should be a befriended part.--Starlight_the_ampharos 21:36, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

No. There should not be a befriended section. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 15:51, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Ash befriends every Pokemon he finds even when it isn't a movie. So no. — THE TROM — 22:01, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

A "Pokémon Ash doesn't like" section would be more realistic, and that itself certainly wouldn't be worth putting in the article. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 22:52, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Matnine Overboard

Is it notable that Ash was apparently able to recognize what a Mantine is in "Mantine Overboard" depite having never seen one before? The same thing could be said about Regice in the 8th movie but that could be easily explained; If (off-camera)someone explained Registeel, Regirock, and Regice the only one left was Regice (simple process of elimination). But the Mantine one has me confused. I suppose it's possible Ash saw a Mantine in his past before becoming a trainer. --Dman dustin 18:27, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah that always happens in the anime. They know Pokemon theyve never mentioned or seen b4. Like James and Carnivine. Whenever they go to a new region Brock already knows all the pokemon and what they evolve into despite never mentioning them in the past. Guardian of Earth |SGMS 2010 18:33, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Are you two forgetting that Ash saw one in EP214 and another in EP256? ^Moldy_Orange 18:34, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

214 is Mantine Overboard, the one Dman Dustin is talking about isnt it? Guardian of Earth |SGMS 2010 18:35, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind...That's my fault, (For some reason, I thought he was talking about Steamboat Willies.) ^Moldy_Orange 18:38, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Every time a new batch of Pokémon are created, the anime seems to retcon the fact that they have never existed before. When Gen V Pokémon are revealed, the anime will treat them as if they were there from the beginning. ~$aturn¥oshi ^{THE VOICES} 18:41, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

TV, Books, and Pokémon games exist in the pokemon world aswell. Also it's not big brother, things would occur off camera and, chances are, if he did see a Mantine in person, it was being minded by Prof. Oak or something like that.

No matter how it might look shows never show everything frame-by-frame, and neither do movies. Chances are that Ash could see a lot of Pokémon off-camera. And about Brock, I'd assume that he studies about Pokémon off-camera. Also I have never seen a real-life dragon, but that won't stop me from recognizing one if I ever get the chance of seeing one. TheBlazikenMaster 22:07, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

3 of 4 gym leaders thing

In the trivia bit it says 3 of the 4 female Gym Leaders have turtle based pokemon like he does. What region are we talking about as there are way more than 4 female Gym Leaders overall. Thankyou for your time. Guardian of Earth |SGMS 2010 09:54, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh I see, 3 of the 4 gym leaders mentioned in the trivia before. Thankyou for your time. Guardian of Earth |SGMS 2010 09:56, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Question

Do Leona and Nando qualify as rivals for Ash? Aura-Knight 03:44, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Nando yes. Leona, no. --☆ケンジガール 04:43, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Hurting a Pokémon

I can think of at least two occasions Ash has hurt a Pokémon, Drapion in the Riolu special and Squirtle in EP012 (before he caught it). The Advanced Series/Orange Islands are fuzzy for me, I only remember some of the better episodes, can anyone think of any others? - unsigned comment from Aura-Knight (talk • contribs)

Sign your post please. And why are you talking about the Pokémon he's hurt? Just wondering...Takoto タコト| サソデイ = 愛 13:25, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Also, Aura-Knight, he hurt MEOWTH in EP012, not Squirtle. Weedle Mchairybug 16:41, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

categorised trivia anyone?

maybe an "in universe" and "out of universe" sections to seperate character trivia and behind the scenes trivia. maybe even another section for pokemon owned, there's that many Kanjo 23:08, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

I hate to open up an old can of worms, but...

I'm completely against the alternate Primeape and Butterfree sprites. They had the the belt/scarf for less than a whole episode, the episodes they left nonetheless. I think the others are fine since they were frequent parts of their characters (Treecko line's twig, Squirtle's sunglasses somewhat), but the belt and scarf are ridiculous. I'm not going to remove them myself since it's bound to start an edit war, so I'm asking for opinions first. ~RR~ 04:29, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

What i think it is is that weve got to have the most upto date images. The last time they were seen. So if they came back and didnt have them then the alternate sprites would have to be removed. Its like how on may the pic is of her emerald uniform although she spent loads more time in her Ruby uniform, but the most upto date is Emerald, even if it was only for 3 episodes. --Guardian of Earth |SGMS 2010 09:43, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

And for both, it was a signifigant reason that they left, Brock gave the scarf to Butterfree so it could score a mate, thus triggering its departure. Primeape went away to further its abilities after winning because it only really won by a fluke. Butterfree was seen with the scarf later and Primeape with the belt as well. Aura-Knight 01:31, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Not quite, Aura Knight. Primeape is seen without the belt in Spurt, which is the most recent appearence of him, which going by Guardian's logic means that the alternate sprite shouldn't be there. ~RR~ 03:53, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to leave this alone, but Primeape needs to lose some weight that belt. Θρtιmαtum♏_Talk|Links11:20 27 Aug 2008

Further, the Butterfree in Spurt does have Brock's scarf. My stance is that it should be a significant part of their character design for it to count. So it looks like Primeape is losing the belt but Butterfree can stay as-is for now. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 13:47, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

i agree with that. thats fair --Guardian of Earth |SGMS 2010 14:00, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Manga Clefable

While we don't have a befriended section for the anime, we do still list Haunter and Larvitar so precedent can go any way. What is the exact situation for Ash and Clefable in the manga? --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 12:41, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, I actually have that section of Electric Tale that I got with the old school VHS tapes. Ash found Clefairy, tried to capture it, met Bill and Oak, then ended up conking it with a Moon Stone in an evolution ceremony. Belongs in the befriended section as Oak and Bill commented that Clefairy taught Ash about something or other. Very metaphorical. --- Aura-Knight 01:24, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

No, Bill and Oak befriended all of them. Ash only befreinded one. Lunick v sonela 15:47, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Protection?

Why is this page protected again and why until my birthday (Sept. 30)? --ケンジのガール 22:55, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

There were multiple reversions over the manga Pokémon list, though none of those involved have actually replied to the above topic... --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 23:32, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to go through with my original plan and unprotect it now. If anyone still wants to put the befriended section in, give your reasons in the section above before editing the article again. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 21:17, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Why arent the new sprites for Charmander etc.

Why arent the new sprites for Charmander etc used??--Wowy 07:13, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

There aren't any new sprites for Charmander, etc. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 14:48, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

THere are according to the charmnder page--Wowy 06:21, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Then it's just that no one has updated the image yet. a:Image:004.png is used all over the wiki, not just on this page, you know. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 14:25, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Some butthead uploaded the second frame sprites for a few of the old Pokémon. The Pt sprites for non-Sinnoh dex/non-Gen IV Pokémon did not change. TTEchidna 17:50, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Who's that nutthead?--☆Tavisource 22:46, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Squirtleman--KukiTalk 22:50, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Protect this

Please, before the edits "OMG Twrtwig evolvezzzz!" --Nick. 17:07, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

New thing for trivia

Should it be noted that Ash has died at least three times during the series? 1- The episode with the ghost pokemon, "Tower of Terror" I think, the chandelier fell on him and Pikachu. 2- "Mewtwo Strikes Back," he tried to stop the battle between Mew and Mewtwo and was turned to stone by the attacks. 3- "Lucario and the Mystery of Mew," the Tree of Beginning's "immune system" absorbed him. This is worth mentioning!Kiryu 21:16, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Not sure if "died" is the right word to use, but I agree, it's worth mentioning. – RyanCross (talk) 21:17, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

no, before he was absorbed, Lucario took over. he was fine. -- MAGNEDETH 21:21, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

And it was mentioned before, but it was removed a long time ago. --^Psychic_Rider^☮ 21:22, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Ash never officially died. He got turned into a ghost temporarily, I don't count that as a death. Turning into stone is not the same thing as dying either. It does sometimes happen in fiction that somebody dies and is recovered back to life by magic, however that did not happen. There was some magic involved when the Pokémon cried at the end of the first movie, but he got turned into stone, that's not the same thing as dying. I have only watched the Lucario movie once, so I'm not sure what to say about that. TheBlazikenMaster 00:48, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, technically the tree "removed" him and the humans. It didn't kill them, otherwise Mew wouldn't have been able to revive them, even with the anime physics. --^Psychic_Rider^☮ 00:52, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Um, If you ask me, if you turn into a ghost, you sort of have to be dead. Stone isn't alive, so Ash woldn't be alive if he's turned to stone- hate to tell you, but that's the same as being dead. As for the tree's immune system, that's controversial, just like if Lucario itself died at the end of the movie. I understand that last, but besides that, Ash dies at least a couple of times.Kiryu 22:40, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

You make a good point, trolls die when they get turned into stones. (by trolls I mean the creatures, not spammers) Ok, I have to admit, you really managed to outsmart me with your remarks. But I have one question though, if a person freezes, but gets warmed up, would that count as death? TheBlazikenMaster 22:51, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Um, not sure, that's more like suspended animation. Unless ice crystals form in the bloodstream.Kiryu 22:29, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Temporary Pokémon

In regards to both this and Misty's article, where Togepi is below her temporarily borrowed Pokémon, I don't see why Temporary comes before Given away (or in Misty's case Released) Pokémon - I would have thought it neater to group the Pokémon that have actually been officially acquired, as opposed to separating them with Pokémon that have only been briefly utilised (and, presumably, not added to their Pokédex). -Damien Nightstar 12:07, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Turtwig evolved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

can some one change the turwig to grotle and update turtwigs page cuz it evolved! lol Ritchie

No it didn't. That's next week's episode. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 14:55, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Besides, there's no guarantee that the change will simply be reflecting an evolution. I sense shades of Pallet Party Panic here...--Shiningpikablu252 15:14, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

go to serebii.net Ritchie

We have that "Until it airs" policy, so we can't edit anything. Anyway, Merrick =/= 100% Confirmed. --Maxim 15:18, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

serebii.net jumped the gun on Glaceon, too.

Besides, Bulbapedia's policy is "when it airs" ("it" refers to the episode itself). Not "when it's previewed". As far as we know, Ash's team at the end of the episode could (and probably will) be Pikachu, Staravia, Buizel, Chimchar, and Gliscor with one empty slot (indicating leaving Grotle with the herd). --Shiningpikablu252 15:22, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

ooo , aight Ritchie

ASH ISN'T GOING TO RELEASE GROTLE!

Anyway, we are in exactly the same situation as we were yesterday. The evolution has been confirmed since the Newtype summary was released. Serebii just updated Ash's bio today because we have a picture of it now. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 15:27, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Until it airs police. This is not the first time that a preview spoils something important... is it so diffcult to wait a week? We'll have a Grotle, we know. But wait. Just a week. Serebii is Serebii, it has its own rules, and Bulbapedia is Bulbapedia, we just have to wait --Me, myself and I 15:32, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Do I have to remind everyone that Serbii.net is edited by limited amount of people? We cannot guarantee it's correct, sure it has a lot of correct information, but when you see something you know is wrong, you can't just fix it like you can do on this site. This is why I believe "when it airs" policy exists. TheBlazikenMaster 15:51, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

wow u guys are soo serious like why would u wait a week if u know its "confirmed" until it airs?? what a f*cked up rule Ritchie

Because the world will end if Bulbapedia is ever wrong. Do you want the world to end, no, then wait till it airs. --Guardian of Earth |SGMS 2010

Seriously, it's only a week away. Is waiting really that hard? You should see some misleading trailers if you haven't already. If preview and a fansite is all the proof you have, then it can't be confirmed, since fansites can be wrong and previews can be misleading. Just wait a one week, patience is important, especially in this case. It's not like you have to wait a month. TheBlazikenMaster 17:18, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Exactly, I couldnt have put it better TBM, I think we should get a mod to protect the page till next week. --Guardian of Earth |SGMS 2010

Confirmation isn't the issue here. Newtype's summaries are reliable. We have the rule because sometimes it is more vague and Turtwig is still a Turtwig at the end of the latest episode.

But information on Serebii's front page is usually right. The issue there is that it's a secondary source - he has the info because he got it from the same place as us. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 20:32, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

We knew about Gliscor and Swinub long before they evolved and were captured, you know. We knew Aipom would be evolving in DP060 at the end of DP059. We aren't moving it because the lists are always AS OF THE MOST RECENT JAPANESE EPISODE. The most recent episode was DP099. Turtwig didn't evolve in that one, ergo, it's Ash's Turtwig. Don't even think of changing it, Ritchie. TTEchidna 21:01, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

TTE and Fabu, are you agreeing with me and TBM or with Ritchie, we say it shouldnt be on there yet, he says it should. --Guardian of Earth |SGMS 2010

"Because the world will end if Bulbapedia is ever wrong. Do you want the world to end, no, then wait till it airs."- then why is there such a thing called previews. it was there for a reason. seeing that will give us the urge to watch it and it also about wraps up what will happen on that episode. clearly the episode preview for the turwig,grotle,torterra episode was on serebii and i dont know why u wouldnt agree. can you give me a reason BESIDES that bulbapedia has to wait ill it airs..can u??? Ritchie

• Well, If you want another reason, I'll give you a reason. Sometime ago, way before Buizel your way out of this Aired in Japan, they had a preview showing Ash and Pikachu battling it for almost the entire preview, whileas Dawn and Piplup were seen battling Buizel in only one frame, thus implying at that time that Ash was the one capturing it. So, that's one reason why we have that rule. Actually, now that I think about it, that preview [or rather, Buizel itself] IS the reason why we even have that rule. Weedle Mchairybug 23:31, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

They are on your side.--☆Tavisource 23:47, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Ritchie, I already gave you my reasons, and they are not just about policy. Would you mind telling me why you don't agree with that? Really, I'd love to know since it's so important to you that it stays on this page. TheBlazikenMaster 01:05, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Name?

Do you think it's possible that the English name 'Ash' could have also come from the word 'rash'? Anabel, when translating for Pikachu, did say that sometimes he can act rash, and wasn't it also mentioned in the Pokélantis episode? Ayla 22:10, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Ash is short for Ashley --Guardian

of Earth |SGMS 2010

"Ashley" isn't a reason for the name, unless you think it was chosen with EP026 in mind. His rash attitude is definately an interesting possibility but the examples where it is explicitly mentioned are far later. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 14:51, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Im not trying to argue with you, but Ash is a shortened version for Ashley. --Guardian of Earth |SGMS 2010

Yes it is. But that fact alone isn't the reason 4Kids chose Ash. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 19:01, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with FabuVinny. And also, GuardianOfEarth, if Ash IS short for Ashley, then why would they pick that name? Is there some kind of reasoning behind that? Ayla 19:02, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I dont know how reliable the source was but I seem to remember it being sAtoSHi which when the capital letters are rearranged spells Ash. --Guardian of Earth |SGMS 2010

Er, Guardian? That source is Bulbapedia. This page, in fact. It says that on the bottom. Ayla 22:12, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

You guys should take it to the forums...to Ayla, that may not be true, as he may have got it from somewhere else, but realized it was posted later on here. ^ht14 22:14, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I think the idea is to add it to the article. The rash thing isn't anything more than trivia, though. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 19:27, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Ash is also short for Ashton... --Force ^Fire 07:09, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Am I the only one who thought it was a connection to the other characters names being based on trees? Oak tree, Ash tree etc TheAlmightyChris 23:09, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

I think that Ash's name came from Sacred Ash --Kamusioso

Unlikely. That item wasn't introudced until Gen II. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 19:19, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

But Ash saw Ho-oh in the first episode and Sacred Ash is Ho-oh's held item.-Kevin19980609

Restating what was said above, the Sacred Ash wasn't introduced till GenII. --ケンジのガール 21:52, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

So 4Kids wouldn't have known about it yet. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 21:53, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Togepi

OK I jest back and now war over Togepi I jest got two words WHO CARES he had egg and Misty got Togepi END OF STORY!XD007DarkRayquaza 22:56, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Ash found the egg. But the result of "who gets to keep Togepi" was Misty. Ash won the battle but not the prize. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 09:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

No, he won the prize, but gave it to Misty. A'la Beedrill. - unsigned comment from Missingno. Master (talk • contribs) 11:53, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

He actually captured Beedrill. He didn't give it to Misty, he didn't have a choice. Togepi went to Misty. Besides this was an unoffical contest. As far as it's really known, no one has captured Togepi. --ケンジのガール 12:01, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

So what he won that match? He didn't even touch Togepi or do anything with it at any time after it hatched. It went directly to Misty by itself. Ash never gave it to her. Jmath 13:48, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I think it's Ash who said that he'd give it to Misty. -Billy4b2004 03:08, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, he said it. But we all saw what happened. Togepi ran to Misty when Ash tried to touch it. --ケンジのガール 04:51, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Larvitar's egg

Why is it different from Donphan's egg? In Donphan case, the word "egg" , the sign "→" and the word "Phanpy" is linked together, why isn't it the same for Larvitar's? And please add a notice on the page if it's protected.-Billy4b2004 13:56, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Is this Trivial Worth?

Ash has captured or had the first poison,grass,fire,flying,water,bug,fighting,normal and electric type pokemon in the pokedex.Collol 08:58, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Why not?--Diby 13:11, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Not really...I think Ash has enough trivia. -Sketch 21:21, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

- on the Normal too, it's either Rattata or Pidgey, and he never captured either. He has, technically, capture the first Pokémon in every dex, which is more notable in my eyes (even though it just means he caught the starters). --- Aura-Knight 03:59, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

How do I edit his pokemon template?

I need to know, since it's been officially confirmed now that Haunter was, indeed, Ash's Pokemon (both the dub and the original version of Haunter vs. Kadabra had Ash and Sabrina saying that Ash "Got" Haunter, implying that it is, officially, his pokemon, and I needed to move Haunter to "Given Away" due to this fact. Weedle Mchairybug 23:55, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Template:Ash's Pokémon--^☆Tavisource 00:03, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

He never caught it, so it was never his to give away...so it is unofficial. And we've had discussion over this before... majority ruled unofficial. ^Maverick_Nate 00:13, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Even though Ash and Sabrina explicitly used the word "Get" [or the Japanese equivalent] in regards to Ash capturing Haunter in both the original and the dubbed version? Heck, usually when the word capture (or the japanese word get) is used in regards to it, it implies that it's part of the party, and thus an official member. Weedle Mchairybug 00:23, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Capturing means capturing it in a Pokéball. Same with Larvitar. Jmath 15:49, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Then why is Togetic/Togepi listed as a released pokémon or even an officially captured pokémon? Besides, there are cases where the pokémon is still not yours, even IF you captured it in a Poké Ball. Take Vulpix, for example. That Pokémon was captured by Brock with a Poké ball, and yet even he said it wasn't even his to begin with. Basically, Haunter is to stay as a given away pokémon, since if even a Gym Leader in both versions referred to Haunter as being Ash's pokémon, having ownership of it, and saying he "got" it, that pretty much confirms that Haunter is officially his pokémon. Weedle Mchairybug 00:51, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Well....

Just want to know if this trivia is notable..

Out of all the Pokémon that Ash owns, the last Pokémon that he has captured in every region except Kanto is part of one-evolution families, namely Noctowl, Snorunt and Gligar. If the Orange Archipelago is also included, Snorlax also falls in this category.

Jmath 21:12, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

No. — THE TROM — 22:53, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to get decked by Tavisource for this...

...But Ash's Squirtle didn't wear the sunglasses that often. Only in a few episodes. If we are not letting Buneary have the vest for the very same reason, then I don't think we should have that sprite for Squirtle. --ケンジのガール 20:57, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Buneary has only appeared a few times with the vest (although granted, she has only appeared a few times since getting the vest). Squirtle appeared in several major episodes with the glasses, and is assuredly currently wearing them as leader of the Squirtle Squad. Aura-Knight 21:34, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

The glasses are a big part of Squirtle's character and far less random than the vest. I personally put the line right there just because the Squirtle is so synonymous with the glasses. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 13:44, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Vinny. The appearance of Squirtle's sunglasses are directly related to Squirtle's reaction to events. He takes them out when he's taking charge of a situation (Beach Blank-Out Blastoise), when his ego feels threatened (The Pokemon Water War), or when he wants to appear more threatening (Pikachu's Rescue Adventure). Legionaireb 04:58, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Reason why I reverted the sprite edit

This is what I don't like about the rollback feature...

Anyway, that Chikorita sprite was just unacceptable. Let's use the DPPt version until we find a better one. --ケンジのガール 05:37, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Champion

Why does it say that Ash is a champion? When did he won a pokemon league?(The orange league and the battle frontier are Campionchips, not Leagues).--Tomas 12:54, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

(The orange league and the battle frontier are Campionchips, not Leagues)

There you go.--ForceFire 08:27, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

It's called "The Orange League". It is a league. Just not a tournament type. --ケンジのガール 08:32, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

It says it's a championchip in the article:Ash challenged the following Pokémon championships as well: List of battles (heavy spoiler)

Orange League (Champion) Kanto Battle Frontier (Champion) --Tomas 13:15, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Propensity for Drowning

I'm not sure whether this is worth mentioning in the page, but Ash seems to have a knack for either nearly drowning or getting into situations where drowning is a likely possibility. I can think of about 9 instances off the top of my head. A short list includes Pokemon Shipwreck (trapped in a capsized ship), the Pi-Kahuna (after wiping out in the surf), Pokemon Heroes (when Oakley tries to stop him from entering the museum), and in Pokemon Ranger and the Temple of the Sea (when attempting to fix the crystal lattice in the flooded chamber.) Can some others weigh in, please? Legionaireb 15:47, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

There was also Holiday Hi-Jynx right when Lapras rescued him. And I guess the journey to New Island in Mewtwo Strikes Back. Oh, and the climax of the Second Movie (after Lawrence nearly killed Lugia), as well as when Ash filled Team Rocket's van with Water in the episode where he battled Ritchie. Weedle Mchairybug 17:03, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

It's just one of his character traits "courage" wich is probably listed in the article (I don't wanna scan the article to see if I'm right). He will do anything to save his allies and the common scenario he gets into is drowning.Vhayes1992 02:43, 28 July 2009 that in(UTC)

Ash's age: A CLEAR EXPLANATION

Before you people come up with your opinions on Ash's age, take the time to wonder... Did it ever occur to any of you that this is a cartoon? Let me remind you of another show. You may have heard of it. It's called The Simpsons. Bart Simpson, a ten year old boy, is one of the main characters. Now the show has been on for like 20 years and yet Bart is still 10. So stop thinking that it's so damn unbelievable that Ash is still ten years old when Bart Simpson has the same case. It's clear in The Simpsons that many years pass by as the kids go to school, get summer vacation, and go to school again, and still remain in the same grade and never age. The mentioning of passing years are mentioned all the time but no one ages.

In a nutshell this is a freakin cartoon people. Therefore they don't have to make the characters age. They may mention that years go by, but that doesn't mean they age. So I don't want any of you coming up with your theories here. Ash is, and will likely stay 10 until the series is over. If you believe otherwise then go to the forums and discuss it. I know that there are animes that age their characters, but Pokémon is NOT one of them. Learn to accept it. --ケンジのガール 00:22, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Check out Detective Conan. It's an anime that's been running for longer than Pokémon, constantly references the time of year (with way too many events happing around New Year to make any sense) and yet none of the characters have aged a day.

Aging in the anime states our policy on this. It isn't explicitly stated that anyone is any older (and you'd think Ash would mention if it was his birthday in the third Pikachu short) so we go by the only age that is canon. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 15:44, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Well if the info on Paul's page is correct, paul has been to 3 regoins, while Ash has also been to the orange islands and in kanto again for the battle frontier, which makes it 5, so if paul is realy 11 then ash is at least older than him.--WikiTomas 09:26, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

... Region count has NOTHING to do with it. Eternal youth. End of discussion. --ケンジのガール 18:47, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, on my opinion, traveling through a region on foot takes some time, so if ash and paul are the same age than ash started eralyer than paul and if they started at around the same time, than ash is at least as old as paul or even older.But, it's only my version.--WikiTomas 15:46, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Really. What part of "eternal youth" do you not understand? Don't you think Bart Simpson getting summer vacations every so often means he should get older? But he doesn't. CARTOON. ETERNAL YOUTH. I don't know how much clearer I need to make it. Cartoons =/= real life. If you reply to this with anymore of your theories, I'm giving you a short block. And that goes for the rest of you as well who can't seem to grasp that Pokémon is a cartoon. --ケンジのガール 02:46, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

In a non-canon episode of the simpsons called behind the laughter lisa says "They druged me for ten years, so I wouldn't age". Lunick v sonela 15:52, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Question about voice actor

I have a question concerning an edit I'd might to do. In the box where the English voice actors names are it says "Sarah Natochenny (PUSA)". Should it be "Sarah Natochenny (TCPi)"? It's no longer PUSA anymore. Vhayes1992 23:52, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I know what you are talking about but ash's voice actor is still same "Sarah Natochenny" and other voice actors (most of them) are same. --♫♪Adyniz♪♫ 06:02, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

I mean, should we change it from PUSA to TPCi?-- Vhayes1992 06:55, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

I think firstly you have to get permission from the administrators. --♫♪Adyniz♪♫ 06:56, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Protect

I suggest someone protect this page. at least until DP146 (or DP145, i cant remember which) airs. my reson, because of the posibility of ash catching a Gible in this episode. _ShinyPika 23:28, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Not only this but Dawn, Brock, Jessie, and James also because they all have possibilities of getting Gible. Turtwig A Contributions Talk 23:30, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

If someone tries to add it to any of the main characters pages, I will protect them. For now, it'll remain editable. --ケンジのガール 23:37, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Excuse me guys, Ash already have 6 pokemon in his team, exceptions are there but use your common sense. --♫♪Adyniz♪♫ 04:44, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you, just hope there is no release and capture in one episode. Most likely not to happen.--Midnight Blue 04:46, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Ya, i hope so. --♫♪Adyniz♪♫ 04:52, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

That doesn't mean he can't capture anymore Pokémon. --ケンジのガール 04:54, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

One word: Krabby!!!!!!!!--Midnight Blue 04:55, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I said that exceptions are there. --♫♪Adyniz♪♫ 04:56, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I know I just wanted to say that.--Midnight Blue 04:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

But when he caught Krabby, he wasn't aware that it would be transferred away.--^☆Tavisource 22:03, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

ash's dad

http://www.serebii.net/anime/pictures/shinou/606ps8.shtml

12th row, 2nd picture.

could someone get this pic and post it? it confirms that his dad is not giovonni, oak, or silver, but an unnamed, never before seen man. - unsigned comment from WaterUser (talk • contribs)

Those people are from Twinleaf Town and are Dawn's neighbors...not from Pallet Town...--Psy_Rider☮ 22:51, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

I believe he's talking about the guy with the Rapidash. That is NOT Ash's father. In fact, that guy looks like he's in his teens. God, why do people always jump to conclusions? This confirms nothing. --ケンジのガール 02:40, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Besides, the pictures don't line up the same on all displays. I've recently upgraded my monitor to a flat widescreen (with a new tower to go with it), and I'm currently on a 1300x768 resolution. There isn't even a row 12 in that resolution (only 10 rows of three each). --Shiningpikablu252 03:27, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

I thin that that man in the picture looks a little like Silver, he is hust a bit younger and has slightly shorter hair and diferent clothes.--WikiTomas09:14, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Enough with the speculation. This is now becoming forum content. If you want to discuss about this, take it to the forums. That is not Ash's father. --ケンジのガール 18:45, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, we don't know that exactly until it airs.--WikiTomas 15:51, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Bottom page template

The External Links Template seems to be too big.

Can we put in a box that's say

"There are many template. Click "show".

I forgot the link to do that, we should hide it in a box.

--Ruixiang95 06:12, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks The dark lord trombonator, the template. That's what i mean~ --Ruixiang95 15:06, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Flying-types

Perhaps a good idea for the trivia: All of Ash's Flying-type Pokémon are on their final stage, these include: Pidgeot, Noctowl, Swellow, Staraptor, Gliscor, Charizard and Butterfree. Bigtukker 08:45, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Personally I don't think it's notable. Remember that all types must be treated equally.- the same can be said of his Ground, Bug and Ice types, and If you count Aipom's evolution while it was with Dawn, his Normal types as well. Not to mention that there is too much trivia already. Werdnae (talk) 08:57, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Gible

New trivia just went up. Now can it go down. The Gible thing is just a rumor. Lunick v sonela 15:55, 7 October 2009 (UTC)