Talk:PokéShipping

Further discussion

NPOV

As previously discussed in the staff forum, this article could do with some editing to make it neutral, not balanced. In short - the evidence needs to be restated in a way that is factual, i.e. "Commonly used arguments for PokéShipping include:" - and present the interpretation as interpretation, i.e. "PokéShippers believe this implies", not "this implies". - 振霖_T 04:33, 18 January 2006 (CST)

Ash's Sexual Orientation

"and furthermore, that Ash is undeniably heterosexual" What, he can't be bi?

Ja that slightly annoyed me too. - Ferret 12:45, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Opinion and conclusions shouldn't be here... I didn't like working through that section either. Of course, this whole thing is opinion and what we should be doing is documenting the opinion, rather than presenting it.

But wouldn't 'undeniably likes girls' be more accurate?

probably saying that there's "no credible evidence supporting Ash having any sexual orientation other than heterosexual" is best. Evkl 22:19, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Is anyone able to go through the japanese episodes and find the original lines for some of these hints? If we're not going to write about dub hints, single them out, and show why they're not taken as evidence by serious veteran Shippers, we shouldn't include them at all.--Archaic 10:34, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

"probably saying that there's "no credible evidence supporting Ash having any sexual orientation other than heterosexual" is best. Evkl 22:19, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)"

Evkl--I wouldn't say that. Remember Sammy? Ritchie? Gary?

Show me the solid evidence that As is anything but heterosexual. evkl 10:32, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

There is none, just as there is no solid evidence that he's not bisexual. Ketsuban 23:08, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Other than the fact that he has yet to shown any real sexual attraction to males. Lionheart08 15:39, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Lack of evidence to one side is not the same as "solid evidence" to the contrary. I could just as easily say "Mew has never been shown, in any canon, to be in a romantic relationship with a female pokemon, so it is male and gay." That is no proof what-so-ever. See the similarities between that argument and yours? Mind you, I'm not saying I feel one or the other about Ash's sexuality, and the article never claims that Ash has to be hetero, just that Pokéshippers think so - just don't use such terrible logic. --AuthorX 17:37, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the simple fact that Ash has shown attraction to females (on more than one occasion) and none whatsoever to males kills the theory of him being Bisexual. Lionheart08 04:14, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

With a kids show, probably best to err on the side of caution. So Ash is straight until proven otherwise... - Cassius335

Image:PokéShipping

Is the image in this article really from Electric Tale of Pikachu? Because, as far as I remember, Misty is older in it, and her hair is black. She seems more like Misty from Pokémon Special to me. -- Luke 08 May 2006

I've Got A Secret

Removed a reference to this, since it's sung by Deliah, not Misty.

It's sung by both of them. Delia sings about the secret of her past (dating Giovanni) and Misty sings about her feelings for Ash. --FabuVinny ^T-C-S 12:47, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Really? Didn't see the actual play, but the song sounds like its only the one female singer. Interesting... - Cassius335

Ugh

Uuugh, gay ships annoy me sooo much, if you people were truuue fans, those kindsa ships wouldnt exist! Gosh! -File:Ani491MS.gifKPF☆

Where there are possible couples, there be ships. Fact of the Internet. Cassius335 22:54, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

And how does your homophobia affect the PokéShipping article? --FabuVinny ^T-C-S 21:05, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I think he means "Shipping is gay". Cassius335 22:35, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Misty's Song

I'm going to remove Misty's Song from the list for now, as it appears to be exclusive to the English version. If anyone finds an official Japanese song in which Kasumi states this, please add that song instead ^_^. AjaaniSherisu 21:23, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Do eff off. Just because it's a dub song does NOT mean it doesn't count! - Cassius335 14:05, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah. Just because it's English-exclusive doesn't mean it's not usable as evidence. English canon is canon. User:TTEchidna/sig 05:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but you are grasping at straws. Pokemon is from JAPAN. The only canon that can be canon is the original, and since the main language of Japan isn't English, we can assume that the dub is not the original, right? There is no such thing as dub canon. Ganging up on me saying "I agree with them, just because it's in English doesn't mean it doesn't count" doesn't make his/her or your point anymore correct. I support Pokeshipping, but I do so with facts that the creators gave, not a company that had no say in the development of the series. The day that dubs become part of an anime's canon is the day fanfics become canon. AjaaniSherisu 06:22, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I hate sub purists.

Look, the English version of the show is the official English version of the show, not a fansub or a fanfic. There's a mile of difference. There IS such a thing as dub canon and we're ganging up on you because you're wrong. - Cassius335 10:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

By the way, I'm not a sub purist, I just happen to like the Japanese names more. Also you are not ganging up on me because you are correct, you are ganging up on me because you feel that if you do, it makes your statement have more validity. There is no such thing as dub canon, at least not to anyone who actually knows what the word canon means. Only official things can be considered canon, and this proves that the dub is NOT canon, ready for it? They stated in the 5th episode that Takeshi's mother was dead..... wow.. funny how she came back alive and tried to turn the family's gym into a water one in the 1st episode of Pokemon Chronicles. I guess she must of came back from the dead and is now a zombie, eh? They edited this because they didn't want Takeshi to have 2 parents who left the family, so they said she died. They didn't expect her to ever be focused on, so they killed her off. The original version had her not dead, the dub had her dead, which is it? One of them was wrong, and I'm going to put my money on it being the dub.

Protect the page please

We need to protect the page for a bit. A certain someone keeps removing the dubs evidence. --File:Ani048MS.gifケンジFile:Ani183MS.gifガールFile:Ani123MS.gif 09:52, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

No need. If it comes to it, the admins will ban him. - Cassius335 10:46, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Cassius, I'm a girl thank you very much, and no the admins won't ban me, but I'm pretty close to asking them to ban you for your repeated reverting of something that isn't true. I agree with Kenji-girl now that we should keep the dub evidence as another look at it, but your repeated attempts at posting that there is uncertainty about whether or not the song is canon is vandalism. You not once back up your claim and only stoop to saying to "go away", as if you wish for what I'm saying not to be true. I hate to burst your bubble, but it isn't canon. It was written by Ken Cummings and John Loeffler, and was made specifically for the 2BA MASTER Soundtrack. If you want to post it as evidence of Pokeshipping in the dub, do so; but don't lie and say that it is unclear whether it is canon or not, as that is a lie. AjaaniSherisu 11:25, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

The only reason you're saying that at all is because you have his strange fascination with decanonizing the entire English version.

Look, Misty's Song is Misty's Character Song, written as part of the soundtrack to the English version of the show. The only way for it to be truly non-canon is if it was out-of-character for Misty. It isn't: her attraction to Ash is pretty much undeniable at this point. But (as I recall) it was never actually used in the show itself, so it's never been shown in context to the show's plot.

Aaand I lost you after "English version", didn't I? - Cassius335 11:36, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I take back my "Nah". Please protect the page. We're in ping-pong mode at the moment. - Cassius335 11:41, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

It's not a strange fascination, it's the truth. Canon means official. I'm not sure where you got your evidence that it is not "out-of-character" for Kasumi to say that, when neither of her voice actresses even sang the song, nor has most of the evidence on this page been anything other than a product of the dub's dialog changes. Please learn the defintion of canon before you make comments about whether something is canon or not. Check out the link for canon, ok?

Do you have anything other than sub purism to offer? The Japanese version has it's own seperate soundtrack (though with some shared BGM). And the English version is official, because that's what they're paid to make: the official English-lnguage version. - Cassius335 12:15, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

*laughs* And the article you linked to doesn't exist! - Cassius335 12:17, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Ah. Possibly you meant Canon. Gotta watch those brackets. - Cassius335 12:20, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about that ^_^;, hehehehe. You have to remember that they don't pay 4Kids to make anything, 4Kids paid them to license it out. That does not mean that the product is canon, just that they have permission to use their product's name and sell it. I'm actually not an sub purist, I just don't like the fact that you are stating that a song that is not in any canon of Pokemon (the original anime, games, manga, or Japanese CDs) is being called unclear of whether or not it is canon.

The fact is the song is not canon, but I don't mind if you use it as evidence as long as you don't state that it is official canon, or that there is uncertainty of whether or not it is, as both are untrue. You don't have to be a sub purist to understand that the Japanese version is the official one. I'm not saying "OMG, the dub is horrible, who watches that rubbish?" I'm just saying the truth that it's not canon, and therefore there is no debate over whether or not it is canon, at least not in people who aren't trying hard to wish the fact isn't true. It in no way makes Pokeshipping not likely, as I'm a Pokeshipper myself and know there is a lot of evidence that actually is from canon that does support Pokeshipping. It's just that the song isn't canonical evidence. AjaaniSherisu 12:53, 29 January 2008 (UTC)