Talk:Pokémon Gold and Silver Spaceworld '97 demo

It'd probably be a good idea to avoid directly attaching the English names given to Pokémon in the final release of Gold and Silver to the ones found in this prototype. It's a bit misleading to call Hanamogura "prototype Bayleef" given how little they resemble one another, and while people have informally described Bōbō as "prototype Noctowl" it's clear they didn't have much laid down for what Hōhō would evolve into at this stage beyond "a bigger owl" - the sprite is visibly lacking in detail, and Noctowl didn't even retain the single foot they did have at this point. (Manbō1 is so early in development it doesn't even have a name yet.) ThomasWinwood (talk) 22:12, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

I have a hidden edit note in that section of the page that tells those who help edit the page to NOT speculate what a Pokémon's translated name may have been. :) Frozen Fennec 22:17, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

Thomas Winwood, I respectfully strongly disagree. I think that if a Pokemon clearly fits the same evolutionary purpose as a Pokemon which appeared in Gold and Silver, it is essentially a "prototype" version of that Pokemon. Besides, where do we draw the line? Hoothoot looks similar, but has slight differences, Magby more so, Pichu more so... and so on. That being said, I'd happily let up on Mantine. --celadonk (talk) 21:50, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Adding on... an alternative would be to simply name each Pokemon by their Japanese name regardless of what they translate to in the final games, but I strongly advise against that. --celadonk (talk) 21:54, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

One more comment... I think everyone was thinking of this anyways but we shouldn't refer to Nameru, Jaranra, Riifi, and Baririna as Lickilicky, Tangrowth, Leafeon, and Mime Jr. respectively, as those were Pokemon that weren't introduced until after Gen 2. Although we should probably make some reference to them in the trivia sections. --celadonk (talk) 22:13, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

I actually agree with ThomasWinwood on that- we can hardly call Hanamogura a prototype Bayleef when it doesn't share any semblance of design or even its name with Bayleef. Given its lack of similarity to Chikorita and Meganium, it could very well be the remains of an unused grass starter line that started to be replaced before the demo. We wouldn't call Honoguma a prototype Cyndaquil and Kurusu a prototype Totodile. The best approach may be to treat any pokemon who does not share its name or a closely similar design with an existing pokemon as its own separate entity. So I would call Hanamogura and Bōbō by their Japanese names and mention somewhere in their info that Bayleef and Noctowl replaced them in the final version, much like I would also reference the pokemon that later took the intended roles for Nameru, Jaranra, Riifi and Baririna. I mean it's the same thing, they were replaced by a different design, just that for Hanamogura and Bōbō, it took less time for them to do so. Yoriven (talk) 17:27, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

At the very least, I would call Hanamogura, Haneei, and Mitsuboshi by their Japanese names. We don't even have confirmation that Ledyba evolves into Mitsuboshi. It might be Ledian, but there is no hard evidence for it. Yoriven (talk) 17:41, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

I still think that evolutionary relatives that have a parallel in the final game should be referred to as prototype versions of their final counterpart, but I suppose I'm outnumbered. However, I do think there was something in the code about Ledyba and Ledian's evolution simply being dummied out rather than removed entirely; specifically, that it would evolve into proto-Ledian at level 18. I can double check, though. --celadonk (talk) 18:52, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

As I recall, all of the evolution data for pokemon in the demo area was just straight up removed. That's why there was a lot of debate over whether or not Mitsuboshi was an evolution or possibly a counterpart- the data isn't dummied out, it's just not even there. But a good place to ask would be The Cutting Room Floor's Discord since people there seem to understand the details better than I do. Yoriven (talk) 20:01, 19 May 2019 (UTC)