User talk:Force Fire/Archive 9

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	Archive Thirteen

Subpages of a userpage

Hello, I noticed you warning people about their userpages, so I thought you'd be the right person to ask this. The thing is, I would like to create a subpage listing my in-game teams using the standard team template, since I want there to be more things related to Pokémon and me on my page. I wanted to ask whether or not it is allowed at all and what I should keep in mind besides not editing excessively. Thank you! Kikugi (talk) 10:16, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Making subpages for that is fine, the rules for subpages is the same as a normal userpage. An edit to your subpage also counts to the "three userspace edits per day" rule.--Force Fire 10:28, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Another offensive username

Puta is a really rude word in Spanish(I think the account maker failed to use proper alts, but their intent is clear...is this worth your time for an unacceptable username?--BlisseyandtheAquaJets (talk) 17:16, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

"Not everything is a pun"

...I never said everything is, but SM is known for them and "ワル" is not a Japanese word, but "warui" (悪い) is! And since it's spelled as "ワル" and "Warubiaru" (ワルビアル) is in the episode it makes sense it's a pun. I have no idea what your problem is and I don't care, but I've already explained why it's a pun. "ワル" isn't used as "bad" in katakana, but words are used in different characters when they're a joke. Like the episode with Dhelmise with "Ikari" (anger) being used as "いかり" as "anchor" but the same spelling "Ikari" also can be used to mean "怒り" (anger). Playerking95 (talk) 19:31, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Please respond and change it back because it's not spelled the right way, meaning it is a pun. I don't care what your problem is, but not correctly addressing a pun in a title that clearly has one just makes Bulbapedia look stupid. I've been obvious why it's a pun. Why can episode titles like SM071, SM065, and SM040 be acknowledged but not this? Playerking95 (talk) 14:54, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Just because "waru" is written in katakana, doesn't mean it no longer means "悪" or has a different meaning. "ワル" is still "悪", it's not some nonsensical word. And yes, "悪" can be used by itself. As for the title, "waru" could also be referring to Nanu, considering his attire and the fact the title includes "oyaji" (since it's "...waru oyaji wa...").

As for the other episodes, they're fine. Ikari can mean either Anchor and Anger, like you said, so that's a pun. "Mairimasu" is pure nonsense and could only be a pun. "Pan-paka-pan" is a trumpet fanfare with just happens to include the word "pan", and the episode was about bread.--Force Fire 15:20, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

The idea that not translating a pun is bad needs to be addressed.

Translating puns is HARD.

It is not always worth wracking your brain over or compensating for otherwise. And it's not even necessarily worth forcing something. Not translating a pun does not make Bulbapedia look stupid... Tiddlywinks (talk) 15:37, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Surge/Terrain confusion

There's confusion going on in the anime whether the Tapu are activating their signature abilities or using the Terrain moves. This issue has been resolved with Tapu Koko, but people are still mixing up Tapu Lele and Tapu Bulu's Abilities with their Terrain moves. When Tapu Lele and Tapu Bulu activated their Abilities Psychic Surge and Grassy Surge respectively, users are assuming that they are using the attacks Psychic Terrain and Grassy Terrain instead. That is not the case. In Rising from the Ruins! and SM075, when Tapu Lele and Tapu Bulu enter battle with Rockruff and Lycanroc respectively, their Surge Abilities go off at the start of their battles. This happened with Tapu Koko as well when it battled Pikachu in The Guardian's Challenge! and A Guardian Rematch!. The Terrain moves can go off during any point of the battle, however the Surge Abilities can only activate when the Pokémon enter the field. Another point to show that it's their abilities activating in those episodes and not their attacks is in Revealing the Stuff of Legend! where all four Tapu used the four Terrain moves to show Ash and the gang Nebby's backstory. Even the anime makes mistakes as shown in SM075 where Acerola and Rotom misidentify Tapu Bulu's Grassy Surge as Grassy Terrain. --PKMNAdventurer (talk) 21:32, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

I've removed them and added a hidden notice. Abilities and moves need to be explicitly said, especially those that would potentially have the same exact animation.--Force Fire 03:11, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Ok, looks like Psychic Terrain was confirmed via dub captions (which is fine, until/unless the Japanese version says that it's something else later on). Grassy Terrain was said, which you've noted. Is it an error? We don't know. But for now, it is not an error unless they contradict themselves and call it Grassy Surge later on. At the end of the day, the is no confusion. Assuming moves is something you shouldn't be doing. If it is said or revealed in close caption, then that's final.--Force Fire 12:08, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Ok. I wanted to make sure if the move used was either the Terrain Move or the Surge Ability. Thank you for clearing it up. --PKMNAdventurer (talk) 20:48, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Requests

If you would be so kind, could you please hear me out and consider doing a couple things I can't do (at least without permission, in some cases):

Template {{Trainerentry}} has several handy redirects for Trainer classes that have changed their names over the years, such as "Cooltrainer" to "Ace Trainer" and "Rocket" to "Team Rocket Grunt". However, there are several Trainer class name changes that have either been missed or happened after the template was last edited, like "Rocket Grunt"* to "Team Rocket Grunt", "Pokéfan" to "Poké Fan", "Swimmer ♂/♀" to "Swimmer", and "Clerk ♂/♀" to "Office Worker". There may be others than these, but anyway, my point is, could you please add the missing redirects to the template in the same way as the already existing redirects?
Back in January, I suggested that the Pokémon League (Alola)/Title Defense page should be split into separate SM and USUM Title Defense pages. I've already got the USUM section ready right here under my own userspace in case the idea gets approved. Do you think the page should be split?
Ummm... I recall having a third request, but it doesn't come to my mind right now. I'll come back if I can remember it.

--FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 12:59, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

I've added the examples you've provided. If there are any more, do let me know.

I've forwarded the article with the other staff members.--Force Fire 08:16, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for hearing me out. And indeed, I've discovered a few more redirect links that should be fixed: "Officer" and "Policeman" to "Police Officer", "Interviewer" to "Interviewers", "Socialite" to "Madame", and "School Kid" to "Schoolkid". Also, a couple of other things related to this subject:

In Generation II, the "Swimmer" class was classified as "Swimmer♂/♀", as in without a space, while in Generation VI, it's "Swimmer ♂/♀", as in with a space. The latter redirect is yet to be fixed.

In Generation II, the Trainer class that would later be known as "Schoolkid" was called "Schoolboy", hence why "Schoolboy" redirects to "Schoolkid" (or rather "School Kid", a redirect link). And then, in Generation VI, we were introduced to the separate "Schoolboy" Trainer class. As such, the Schoolboy links from Generation VI now lead to an incorrect article (similar to the "Medium" link from Saffron Gym's page, actually, due to the Channeler class's renaming in Stadium, but that's a much more minor subject). I know this may be an impossible or at least a difficult problem to solve properly, but I decided to bring it up nevertheless, just in case.

The request I forgot about yesterday is actually a pretty old one: back in 2013, I made a suggestion to change the {{Gym Leaders of Unova}} to better separate the BW and B2W2 Gym Leaders from each other, but my edit (which you can see here) was undone, because I hadn't talked about it beforehand. Since then, I've forgotten, remembered, and re-forgotten this multiple times, but now I've finally managed to make myself bring this long-forgotten topic up again. Could the template be edited in this or at least in a similar kind of way, or do you feel it's good enough as it is?

Also, I've also come up with a couple new things I'd want to propose since yesterday: could "Tide Song Hotel" and "Kantonian Gym" receive their own articles? I've already asked people's opinions about these ideas on Heahea City and Malie City's talk pages, and at least the Tide Song Hotel split seems to have gotten some support already. Could you take these splits into consideration as well? Thank you.

--FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 10:04, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Oh, and while I'm at it, I also found one Orre Trainer class redirect to fix: "Fun Old Lady" to "Matron". --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 12:35, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Ah, didn't see the subtle difference with the Swimmer trainer class. I've added the other TCs.

I think the Unova Gym Leader Template is fine the way it is. Repeating the same Gym Leaders is pretty unnecessary, while I do get why, the template is about who are the Gym Leaders, separating by game isn't necessary. Plus, the three newer Gym Leaders being at the bottom of the first eight already implies that they were added later on.

I've forwarded those suggestions to the other admins as well.--Force Fire 05:11, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

I actually just saw you making that edit. Thanks a lot.

I understand. It's fine. I won't raise that topic again.

Thanks once again. I'll be waiting for the results. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 05:36, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

Sorry to bother you again, but I've found a couple more links to fix, mainly from the Orre games:

Let's get the simpler ones out of the way first: "Researcher" and "Cipher R&D" to "Scientist".

Now, for something I'm not so sure of: the Orre-exclusive classes "Rogue" "Kaminko Aide", and "Robo Groudon" are Trainer classes used by only one person each, and they also only appear as redirect links on one page each. Hence why I'm not sure if these redirects should be removed or not. What do you think?

And finally, something a bit different, but still involving the same template. A big number of Fighting-type Trainers in FireRed and LeafGreen have their Pokémon holding Black Belts. However, the template links the "Black Belt" held item to "Type-enhancing item#Black Belt". This was understandable before, but now "Black Belt (item)" has its own article. Could you change the link to go to the item's own page now?

Thank you. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 06:59, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Done. As for the three single trainer trainer classes, I think they're fine, due to the way the template works (the second parameter is under a TC template, so their has to be a [name] (Trainer class) link.--Force Fire 03:29, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank you once again. However, when I looked at your edits, I also happened to notice that, similar to the Black Belt link you fixed, the held item link for "Metronome" leads to "In-battle effect item#Metronome". I can understand that you didn't notice that during your edit, so I'm not blaming you of anything, but could you be so kind and fix that one, too? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 05:25, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Whoopsie! Every time I think I'm done with this issue, I notice something new. The redirect link of "PokéFan" to "Poké Fan" has been fixed, but it's formatted as "Pokéfan" on every pre-Generation VI page (as well as on the "Poké Fan (Trainer class)" article), and that redirect link still remains to be fixed. Could you do this one more thing? I'm sorry if you feel bothered by this. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 12:40, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

(deep sigh) One. More. Once again I've noticed something. In Generation II, some Poké Fans had their Pokémon holding Berries, as in "Berry (item)", but link just goes to "Berry". Could that be fixed? PS. I also have other stuff to talk about with you, but I'll probably start a new section for that purpose later. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 08:04, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Force preview question

I've heard about the force preview group, where you have to preview your edits before publishing them. And I thought it might help me slow down and evaluate if my edits are actually helpful, since I have a tendency to act impulsively. Is it possible to ask to be put in that group? I was just curious. Incentive (a.k.a. Veralann) 02:49, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

PokeShay

I think it was a little harsh to block him for that. You could've just asked about it on his talk page. --Raltseye prata med mej 16:03, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

"Pokémon seen" lists for movie locations

I wasn't too sure who to ask about this, though I have noticed that some movie-based locations have got the "Pokémon seen" lists and others don't. What is the requirement for these types of pages?. E.g. The Lake of Life has an incomplete list whilst Forina and the Tree of Beginning do not have any list, instead the Pokémon are just listed in the description section.

Also who is the authority on uploading images to the archives? I have a few images in mind that are needed to complete other pages like the Pokémon mate page.

Thanks. PardescanSlowbro (talk) 09:55, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Locations where Pokémon actually live there have the Pokémon list. Though I'm not too sure if it's needed, as most are just wild Pokémon. Maybe if they play a large role in the area, such as the titans in Tree of Beginning, then they can be listed. Otherwise, it's unnecessary. As for the archives, you have to create an account at the archives and wait to be autoconfirmed there (the requirements are the same as it is on the wiki).--Force Fire 02:43, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the information. PardescanSlowbro (talk) 09:36, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Unaccpetable username

[[1]] - unsigned comment from RubyLeafGreenCrystal (talk • contribs)

No it's not.--Force Fire 02:43, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Bulbapedia lagging

Not really sure if this is the appropriate place to ask, but is the site undergoing updates or something? Loading for this site is lagging for me. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 20:45, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Never mind. The issue seems to have resolved itself. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 21:48, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Could I have my userspace privileges back?

It's been like 6 years and I mostly just wanna delete it lmao --Pokelova (talk) 12:17, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Done.--Force Fire 14:18, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Edgreen293

Edgreen293 (talk • contribs) is at it again ([2] [3] [4]). GrammarFreak01 (talk) 22:29, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

I might also add Tygamer64 (talk • contribs) since both GrammarFreak01 and I were discussing him on his talk page. Since he has made rather pointless edits and we were told to report these cases. Ice Cream 15:25, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

RE: Episode links

The links I added are from a licensed Pokémon copyright holder, so there is no copyright issue here. They are all legal.--Magicknight94 (talk) 09:31, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Did you read my reply?--Magicknight94 (talk) 14:52, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

You still can't link to full episodes or episode clips, regardless of whether it comes from an official source or not.--Force Fire 04:35, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Why not? If copyright is not the issue here, what is the problem? Can you explain? --Magicknight94 (talk) 07:33, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Hello?--Magicknight94 (talk) 05:22, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Be patient. Force Fire is probably busy. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 05:31, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

The issue is copyright. We choose not to link to episodes available on streaming sites, regardless of it being from an official source or not, just to be on the safe side. Also, the link you provided was for the Vietnamese dub, which I don't think anyone visiting an English wiki would be interested in.--Force Fire 05:14, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Pokemon 4ever working title?

https://www.serebii.net/archive/September-2000.shtml Scrolling down that page a bit shows a 7-frame promo for a project simply called Pokémon 2001 and one of the frames shows a Celebi, no plans to currently add anything about it to the Pokémon 4ever page but I was wondering what your thoughts were on this. Frozen Fennec 14:05, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Do you have another source for that other than Serebii? Serebii is not a credible source, as it's a fansite.--Force Fire 13:10, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Nope, just randomly came across that and given how old the page was, got a little curious. Tried to reverse image search the frames but could not find anything at all. Frozen Fennec 13:12, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Not sure if I can post this video, but here's video proof. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Od-eFQhVRI Playerking95 (talk) 13:56, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Oh wow, did not know there was still video footage, I just thought it was those seven screenshots. Wonder if this would be worth adding to the Pokémon 4ever section as trivia. Frozen Fennec 14:01, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

PardescanSlowbro

I'm having a really big problem with PardescanSlowbro (talk • contribs) right now. I once sent him this message in response to his editing style, and he took it pretty personally (even though I was also in the wrong here). Since then, the user has made edits to a variety of articles, and I've commonly had to edit them to rectify errors that he made. For example, he very recently edited the plot summary of EP045 and this was what I did to improve it (note that I also did some unrelated changes at the same time).

I once tried to inform him of some of the kinds of errors he kept making in his edits, like you suggested, but this was his response. He also said this beforehand. I tried to be rational and explain myself this time, but the conversation did not move forward anymore, so I gave up trying to reason with him and just resorted to editing at his heels whenever I saw an error. He eventually got agitated by this. I tried asking for specifics about his complaints of me, but he claimed I already knew what I was doing (I legitimately do not). After I responded a couple of times, he went on a tirade against me.

If any, if not all of his grievances towards me are legitimate, then I do apologize immensely. But I sincerely believe I've been trying to be helpful and he just rebuffs it. Either way, could you please step in? GrammarFreak01 (talk) 07:39, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

He also had this to say recently. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 07:44, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Tiddlywinks (talk • contribs) has pitched in. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 19:25, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Harassment Procedure

Dear ForceFire,

I have felt personally vindicated and harassed by the user GrammarFreak01 on a continuous basis. I have pleaded to be left alone by the user and made them clearly aware of my feelings on their conduct towards myself. I was never under the assumption that any of my edits were to be untouched, though found the user in question deliberately followed and made, in some cases minor and pointless changes to over 40 pages (Episode 1 to 46 and some associated anime pages) directly after I did over recent days. The pages in question, at least the plot sections required some detail corrections but until my additions had not been looked at for several years. I had earlier requested significant action be taken against the user on Tiddlywinks page after an earlier spate of unexplained deletions to additions which were quickly reinstated by Tiddlywinks. Nothing came of this request on Tiddlywinks page, and the behaviour has persisted and worsened into vitriol that centres on GrammarFreak01's belief I referred to them as racist, though nothing of the sorts has occurred. I can no longer handle the barrage of blatancy and continuous harassment written on my discussion page by GrammarFreak01, and wish for those actions to end. At all times I have maintained my distance, and have thanked the user for their efforts when they have worked in collaboration with myself. Though their commentary and vicious attacks on my supposed sensitivities and linguistics must end. I have let things slide, despite my discontent, as to avoid further escalation. The user has been told to maintain their distance and respect previously written advices to improve their conduct, though such warnings remain unheeded and their pattern of behaviour towards me continues to intensify. I am completely naïve when it comes to Bulbapedia's bullying procedures, though require strong action be taken to ensure the harassment, belittlement and bullying that I have been exposed to by user GrammarFreak01 does not ever repeat.

I look forward to your reply, though will maintain my reserve and distance nonetheless, PardescanSlowbro (talk) 12:04, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Seeing as I have been the only one to receive any commentary it is best I be moved on. My claims have been outright ignored and also denied, despite the sheer amount of evidence to say otherwise. At the very least the user in question should have been told to remain at a distance, though has immediately gone on the attack again; though of course I am making everything up and overreacting as you pointed out. As such, please delete my account, this forum is no longer suitable to myself, my temperament or my skills. Thanks.PardescanSlowbro (talk) 13:44, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Move trivia

How do I know if trivia about moves is notable? The stuff I add sometimes gets undone even if it's unique to that move. sumwun (talk) 17:54, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Depends on what the trivia is.--Force Fire 05:34, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

I guess a recent example would be my attempt to add a trivium to thunder wave. It said that thunder wave is currently the only status move whose effectiveness depends on the type chart, so that ground Pokemon were immune because it was electric type and not because it was programmed separately. I thought it was unique and notable, but it was taken down. sumwun (talk) 17:57, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Erica124 yet again

Erica124 (talk • contribs) has once again shown her inability to use her force preview, despite my earlier warning. Maybe it's time to let her go? GrammarFreak01 (talk) 04:24, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Perma-blocking her is for the staff to decide, not you. You also need to calm down when approaching "problem" users, yes their continuous wrongdoings can be frustrating, by try to keep a level head when dealing with them. As for blocking, it's not excessive. Can't do much if it's a once in a while thing.--Force Fire 05:34, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Oh, I thought you were part of staff? GrammarFreak01 (talk) 06:56, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Also, just so you know, it's not a once-in-a-while thing. Erica124 made the same exact error on the same article before, and I did warn her about it once. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 06:59, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

I am. A perma block is something that needs to be discussed with other staff members first, not just immediately executed, unless the user we're dealing with is a vandal.

Yes, but her recent spate of unpreviewed edits aren't happening as frequently as it did back in March. She's not editing daily. She only didn't use the preview button on one article today. The last one before today was June 15th, four days ago. And the one before that was last month. Compare it to March where it was almost daily. --Force Fire 07:25, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Oh, okay. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 07:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Reply

Anything to say on my page? RubyLeafGreenCrystal (talk) 06:39, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Quick query

This is present in the trivia section on the Slowbro page:

Slowbro's Pokédex entries state that if the Shellder is removed, it will revert to its Slowpoke form.
- This is the only mentioning of a Pokémon possibly devolving anywhere in the Pokémon games, aside from a card in the game versions of the TCG.

The first part is fine, the second point is incorrect as Exeggutor can also revert. Should the second point be deleted entirely as it both untrue and not unique or altered to include a connection with Exeggutor

e.g Slowbro and Exeggutor are the only recorded cases of Pokémon capable of devolution PardescanSlowbro (talk) 12:43, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

The second point may be removed as it is not unique to one Pokémon.--Force Fire 13:19, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

No worries, thank you.PardescanSlowbro (talk) 13:40, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Poké Problem characters list

OK, so my recent edit of SM080 was taken down by you on the basis that, since the Pokémon I put on the appearance list appeared exclusively in the episode's Poké Problem, it doesn't deserve a mention (since Poké Problems are part of the episode apparently). I've also noticed that some edits on SM079 also got erased on the same reason. Yet previous episodes' character lists feature characters that only appeared in the episodes' Poké Problem segments (for example Brock & Misty's siblings in SM042's case and Harper and Sarah for SM071). As such, I have to wonder why its sometimes okay for characters and Pokémon that appeared exclusively in the Poké Problem of an episode to be mentioned on the character lists of said episode, but other times it's not OK? Pulsaro23 (talk) 17:03, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Then those need to removed from their episodes and any other episodes that list PokéProblem appearances needs to be fixed. PokéProblem is a segment similar to Who's That Pokémon, it is not part of the actual episode.--Force Fire 13:57, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

While I'll agree that the Poké Problem and Who's that Pokémon segments share a similarity (the fact that they are tied to a situation/Pokémon from the episode), they are also very different. By that I mean that, while the WtP segment doesn't have any impact on the overall story of the episode, the bonus scenes shown after the Poké Problem segments expand upon the story of the episode (personally, I'd say they're very similar to the after-credits scenes form the Marvel & DC movies). For example, the Poké Problem segments for SM022 and SM057 feature scenes that resolve the episodes' ending cliffhangers, while others, like the ones for SM042 and SM030, flesh out more of the characters' personality and traits, as well as showing their relationships with other characters. As such, I'd say that, while Poké Problem segments are really part of the main episode, they still have some degree of importance, since the scenes shown at the end of those segments expand upon the main theme/story/characters of the episode (and as such, they should, as you say, "count"). Plus, in the case of the XY series, characters that appeared exclusively in its Poké TV segments were mentioned on the appearance list for its episodes (e.g. XY096, XY099, XY106 etc.). So why should the Poké TV segments receive special treatment and the Poké Problem ones not? Pulsaro23 (talk) 14:37, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Usage of the word "native"

PardescanSlowbro (talk • contribs) is concerned about using the word "native" to describe the residents of Alola in the Raichu article, due to its connection to indigenous peoples who have been plagued with stereotypes and also its purported implicit nature as a development discourse, thus making it potentially offensive to some people. I did not see anything wrong with the word's usage, however, since it can alternatively be used as a synonym for "resident" or "citizen", as I pointed out to him. He's still concerned and has pointed out that official literature no longer uses the word, seemingly making it taboo, even though I have still heard it being used in the context I just described.

Do you think it is appropriate to use "native" in any shape or form here? I'm not aware of any other articles here that use the word. I do acknowledge the potential issue of indigenous peoples being offended, but I don't think anyone will be offended given the word's context in the Raichu article. What do you think? GrammarFreak01 (talk) 06:12, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

It's fine to use the word "native". No need to think that someone will get offended by the word.--Force Fire 09:44, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

You failed to acknowledge my concerns, and reverted my re-edit after GrammarFreak01 again deleted it. The latest addition aided the sentence in making it more concise, and as stated, the phrase 'the natives' is not used by the Pokémon Company in any of it literature, and probably for good measure. The term 'native' to mean local makes sense though should only be applied to describe an area or plant such as on the Vileplume page under the biology section. I would like another opinion as you have allowed a good edit to be revertedPardescanSlowbro (talk) 05:52, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

It's very clear you changed the sentence because of your dislike of the word "native", whether it was a good change or not. You made the change because there was a word you didn't like. That's why it got reverted. There's is nothing wrong with using the word. The Pokémon Company not using it doesn't mean we can't use the word. You're thinking too much into the negative connotation of the word.--Force Fire 06:00, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Negative connotations is your justification? I saw the term and looked at it as an opportunity to make a positive change in line with one of Bulbapedia's major aims, inclusivity. Allowing the phrase 'the natives' is an issue as it is loaded language and may be used on other pages in much the same way. But correcting the term to something more global and neutral has become the issue, leaving aside the issues associated with using this turn of phrase in the first place, even though the original editor of course had no intention of being racist or degrading to particular demographics. By actually allowing this term to pass through with your acceptance, you are also condoning the use of this term in much the same way across potentially other articles and it may enter people's own thoughts on people of different backgrounds. Inclusivity was my motivation because of the so-called negative and very true reality for many individuals on this planet, that terms like this are harmful. I cannot imagine the editor's guide has any detail on this specific turn of phrase, though it would diffidently be designed to uphold inclusivity of all peoples.PardescanSlowbro (talk) 06:23, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

You just admitted that the editor that added the word had no intention of being racist or degrading, if you already think that then it shouldn't be an issue. It's not offensive unless someone makes it offensive. The sentence is in no way written in an offensive manner, and no one will take it as an insult. You're looking to much into it.--Force Fire 06:57, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

I'm afraid you are wrong when it comes to the development discourse, it is an issue incidental or not. I am going to contact someone higher up to alert them to my concerns about the phrase, not word, "the natives", as you have plainly ignored the fact that such terminology is typically avoided due to taboo and discrimination surrounding it. Thanks PardescanSlowbro (talk) 07:06, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

When used correctly, "native" can also be "global and neutral". The only way it can be considered "loaded language" is if the person writing it in question makes it loaded language. I understand the history behind the word, and I also understand that the current political climate makes usage of certain words even more dangerous, but if the word has alternate meanings that are more acceptable, then I don't see why we must avoid using it, no matter how incidental the racism. If you have a problem with it, take it up with Merriam-Webster, not the admins here. If someone else does have a problem with it, we'll talk it out, see where it goes. But in the meantime, we can't simply just avoid using a certain word out of concern of potentially offending someone, even if the word in question is used in an appropriate, non-offensive context. I can't think of anyone else here who would think this word, or similarly loaded language of any kind, should be omitted in its entirety even though it's being used in a non-offensive context. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 07:11, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Exactly. The word is not used in a derogatory manner, it is completely fine. It's all about context, and in this case, the context is not offensive. The only person that has a problem with it is you, Pardescan. And we won't change it just because one person thinks it may be offensive. I'll repeat this again, because you seem to be ignoring it, you are looking too much into the negative aspects of the word.--Force Fire 07:32, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

It looks like he's made good on his promise. I've already pitched my counterargument. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 07:43, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Template mainspace request

For the new Light trio page, there would need to be six Pokémon in the stats section, but there is no such template. I made a template for it and I wanted to know if I could mainspace it to add to the Light trio page. --Celadonkey 14:05, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Integration of Spaceworld Iterations of Existing Pokémon

I felt I would ask this here, since you're the one who linked the in-progress pages for the Pokémon Gold/Silver Spaceworld demo and you seem to know what the plans for them are, and the Gold and Silver Beta discussion page is rather cluttered and doesn't seem like a good place to catch the attention of anybody in particular.

There are a number of Pokémon added for the demo that did end up being released as official Pokémon, such as the Mareep, and Phanpy lines, Crobat, Espeon, Umbreon, Miltank, and others, who are present in the Spaceworld demo build, sometimes with different names and subtly-different designs. Additionally, there are Pokémon such as Haneko, Poponeko, and Wataneko, Gift, Blissey, Scissors, Leafeon, etc. that are very obviously earlier drafts of Pokémon that would appear in Generation II or later.

Are these Pokémon going to be integrated into the site differently compared to, say, Pokémon like Honoguma, Kurusu, Norowara, Wolfman, or Twinz, that were very clearly cut entirely and have yet to appear in any official, publicly-released Pokémon game?

As an aside, how are name labels going to be handled for Pokémon such as Kingdra, Girafarig, and Bellossom, whose final names are already present and in use in the demo? It seems to me that the sensible thing to do would be to label them with their final English names, since the names they have do have official English-language counterparts, and it would be clearer and easier to read for readers who might be unfamiliar with with the Japanese names of those Pokémon. Topaz Light (talk) 14:38, 3 July 2018 (UTC)