Talk:Lenora

Before anyone asks

Please don't remove what I have hidden. Some of it is speculation (come on, how could she not be a Grass-type Gym Leader with a name like Aloe?) but the rest is just there because it will inevitably need to be added, and this way it can just be unhidden.--PhantomJunkie 06:50, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Aren't all Gym Leaders in Japan named after names of plants, usually with a pun about which type they train? --Andy^P_K^M_N 13:25, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

True enough. (I actually hadn't really looked at the meanings of the Japanese Gym Leader's names before this, so I learned something new. xD) I still think she's going to be a Grass-type Gym Leader, but I guess we will just have to see.--PhantomJunkie 16:16, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Natural-born proprietress?

Maybe my Japanese is rusty, but how does ママ translate to proprietress? --Transfinite | Talk 05:49, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

It just... does? And considering Aloe owns the museum, I believe that was the meaning that was intended. 梅子^❀_✿ 18:26, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I did some searching through some Japanese dictionaries and apparently the definition that refers to a proprietress comes from "madame," if that's what you're asking. 梅子^❀_✿ 18:51, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

It is only your guess even if it is right. inappropriate. --Klobis 02:38, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Uhhh, the Leader title is in English Katakana. It doesn't make sense to translate the 'mama' as a Japanese word. If it was Japanese words for "natural" and "born", it'd make sense... but it's not, so it doesn't. Lissie 10:42, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Okay, fine, I give up. You guys can pretend you know anything about translation and completely disregard my experience. I don't even care anymore. 梅子^❀_✿ 19:14, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

And why are you chiding us? I didn't mean anything personal. I don't know honestly why you translated 'mama' from a phrase in English katakana as a Japanese word to mean 'proprietress' which is why I challenged it. I am not disregarding your experience nor doubting your skills in Japanese, that wasn't my intention, but it seemed like a silly translations, and honestly, it really was. Lissie 02:26, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

I've lived in Japan for 6 years, and I have to concur that "mama" is not a substitute word for "proprietress", even if occasionally a woman running a restaurant or such might be called "mama" by some of her workers, that is quite obviously not what they were getting at here as they added "natural born" in front of it. She might run the museum but it's not her title. Sunyshore 02:27, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Her Pokémon

I watched a walktrough, she has the following pokémon:

• Haderia (Female, level 18)
• Miruhog (Female, level 20)

Just those two. Should I add them? DeadUniverse ^Hello! 18:50, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Uh, sorry, just noticed the [show] button. DeadUniverse ^Hello! 18:58, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

"Mammy"

Though Nintendo may not have known it at the time, there is no doubt that Aloe's original designed resembled a mammy. She even refers to herself as "mama," which is the origin of the word mammy. Nintendo changed Jynx's design because it resembled a woman in blackface, so it's not unreasonable to see why they changed Aloe's design. Fare la Volpe 02:13, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but that's kinda speculation Ataro 02:19, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

It's not really a change, though; it's just a change in pose. If you look closely, she's still wearing all the same things. It's just in the newer art, her apron's slung over her shoulder instead of her wearing it. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 02:20, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

African-American

After seeing that trivia removed (and rightly, as it's extremely debatable), I felt I ought to point out something regarding characters' ethnicity. That being: if it is discussed at all, we should be extremely careful what terminology we use. "African-American" is predicated by there being an Africa or an America by those names in any official material. America we can assume, thanks to Lt. Surge's title, but Africa is far less confirmable. It would be better to discuss skin-tone, although that's less specific and voids pretty much any trivia. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. --Andy^P_K^M_N 20:41, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Wasn't Africa mentioned in an early PokeDex entry for Mew?- unsigned comment from Lego3400 (talk • contribs)

It doesn't really matter if it did..Ataro 02:14, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Not to mention that's South America you're thinking of. —darklordtrom 06:32, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

"African-American" is clearly assuming too much. But what would be wrong with noting that she is the first "black" Gym Leader? It's neither offensive nor assuming more than we know. -Damien Nightstar 19:42, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Damien Nightstar saying she's african american is assuming way too much. Is there any proof? Also there not in America there in Unova there for saying "African American" is not correct. Unless there's proof just use the skin color. We don't want a repeat of the Iris incident Pokemaster97 20:05, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

I wish I knew why mentioning skin color matters. It's obvious that her skin is darker than the other characters. Why do we need to point it out? Should we say Misty is the first white Gym Leader while we're at it? --ケンジのガール 04:31, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Misty? You mean Brock....Ataro 05:07, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

He doesn't look white to me. --ケンジのガール 06:34, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

And even then, what defines first? First to be known, that would be Iris. But Aloe was known to be a Gym Leader first, so does that make her first? Or does Aloe being second on the badge case make her come before Iris, who is eighth? Regardless, African American should not be used at all unless referring to real people. I don't think we should assume nationality unless it is explicitly stated, such as Lt. Surge and Fantina. And this kind of trivia really isn't needed. --SnorlaxMonster 07:03, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

When was Fantina's country of origin ever actually specified? Yes, she was speaking French before the battle with her, but that does not mean she is actually from France. For the record, she could have been a Quebec Canadian, she could have been from Haiti, heck, she could have just as easily have been from West African countries, as there is absolutely nothing to indicate that she's from France besides language. Weedle Mchairybug 23:08, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

I think it was specified, but I'm going to have to look for a bit to find it. Too bad there isn't a fame checker in Gen IV, that would make it so much easier. --SnorlaxMonster 01:00, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Chillarmy?

"She was originally supposed to use Chillarmy as seen in original drawing of her."

Is there any proof of that? --Shining Latios 22:28, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Original artwork?

Is there a real change in Aloe's artwork? Her game sprite is same after all. It's loks like just an alternative version of same artwork.--Martianmister 14:37, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Which artwork goes where?

There seems to be some confusion about which artwork of Aloe should go in the main infobox, and which one should be put with the trivia as the "alternate". Can we get an official ruling on the two? --RiverAura 16:45, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

The artwork with the apron on was the original one. The one with it hung over her shoulder is the alternative one. --P S Y_ライダー☮ 16:56, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Miruhog's move/ability

The image name and description say that it is Flash, along with Flash's article, but here it is listed as Illuminate and has no moves known. Which is it? Illuminate's page does not mention it being used in the anime at all. --SnorlaxMonster 23:46, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Would guess it was Illuminate. Aloe did not issue a command. --ケンジのガール 01:15, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Again

I'll say it again. Is there a real change in Aloe's artwork? Her game sprite is same after all. It's looks like just an alternative version of same artwork.--Martianmister 14:06, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

The game sprite is from the Japanese game. We don't know what Aloe would look like in the english games because it's not out yet. It is technically not the same artwork, because the newer one has her apron over her shoulders. Same pose, different clothing position. --Han Ji-Wan 18:24, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Yorterri/Haderia

Pretty sure they are different pokemon. From what I could understand, Iris commented that Aloe was using a different Pokémon this time, and Dent stated it was most likely to catch rematchers off guard. Although it's not clearly stated, everything that is said by Iris, Aloe, and Ash suggest that Haderia is not the same as her Yorterri. Is there an official source that states they are in fact the same Pokémon? As the little evidence we have points to them being different Pokémon. Even if it's just 2 lines in the episode, it's more than guessing based on the fact they are part of the same evolutionary line. Myzou 18:59, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, I went back and watched the episode again, since I am working on the summary, and from what I could tell, both Ash and Aloe kept calling it "this" Haderia, which, since I do not know Japanese, makes it sound like to me that it could be an entirely different Pokémon (as opposed to "that" Yorterri), but then again, I do not know anything about Japanese grammar. Iris said "No way, its evolved form? She'll be battling with different Pokémon from the last battle?" and then Dent said "She may have thought that it's a better way to bring out Satoshi's strength, given his progress" (according to whoever subbed the episode on Anime44.com, which is where I watch it). Now to me, Iris' line could go either way, sure it could mean that it is a different Pokémon entirely, or she could have just been shocked that it evolved. And to me, Dent's line doesn't give us any info either way. Can someone who can speak Japanese fluently (and has watched the episode) weigh in on this debate, to clarify the matter? One way or the other, it would be good to know. --JediKnightDTV 05:19, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry that I may be sounding arguementative but, Lillipup was her trump card in BW015, then she brings out its evolved from in BW016 as her trump card once again with the same attacks practily, I think the script writers may think we are smart enough to realise it evolved without them stating it, if these are seperate Pokémon then Paul has a Lairon and an Aggron, Nando has a Roselia and a Roserade, and Zoey has both Shellos and Gastrodon because it was never stated that they evolved. I could name more examples but for the sake of not sounding snooty, I won't Diamond Lanturn CodeName: 05308 15:56, 2 February 2011 (UTC)