Talk:Orbeetle (Pokémon)

Higher quality image

I found a higher quality image of the artwork, but I can’t figure out how to upload it. Can anyone help? MrFeeds (talk) 20:07, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

Go to Special:Upload and upload the artwork here. --ErtasVideos (talk) 20:24, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

Origin Question

Given its supposed name origin, gigantamax form, typing and skill in hypnosis and brainwashing, its high intellect, enlarged brain and observant cold nature would seem to suggest 'grey alien' a lot more than 'super villain'. SJ (talk) 14:39, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Kind of torn on that one honestly. On the one hand, I understand what you mean but at the same time, I get a feeling this could be referring to supervillians from older movies (thinking mid-80s to early 00s) that want to rule the world via controlling hearts and minds. Its Pokédex entries make me think it could be alien-type supervillian as well. I suppose at best, the wording could be changed up slightly perhaps? Frozen Fennec 15:36, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

It seems to have a lot for the alien origin (turns into a literal flying saucer), but only the 'mind control thing' going for the super villain angle. Given the mind control ability is common to many psychic types, logically they must all be based on super villains? Am I missing some other info that links it to super villainy? SJ (talk) 09:16, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

A vent about possible inspiration of Orbeetle, please hear me out.

I don't want to trample on anyone's feet, I just wanted to say a few things that have been clogging my mind for the past month before an edit can be added. I am one of possibly many folks who disagree with the Origin statement "It may also take inspiration from hypnosis and brainwashing. In addition, its high-level intellect, the enlargement of its brain, and its observant cold nature may be a reference to stereotypical supervillains common in popular culture, whose shared objective is to achieve world domination via mind control." One problem with that is the mind control villain archetype is simply too numerous and vague to pinpoint any specific examples that the designer could draw from. But that is not the main point I am trying to share.

I have been constantly finding comments, both online and in real life, claiming to suspect that Orbeetle's main inspiration is that of a late 1970's Japanese science-fiction animated series called "Mobile Suit Gundam". I know next to nothing about Gundam, and I will assume the average Pokemon player (especially the current Generation Z players) does not know what Gundam is either, but when I was presented with visual and literary proof to support this claim, the evidence, coincidencal or not, seems pretty damn strong. Some people even went so far as to identify different parts of mobile suits (pilotable giant robots) in Orbeetle's design. One person in particular, suggested the head of a "RX-93 Nu Gundam", arms and legs of a "AMX-004 Qubeley", and the radar dome of a "RMS-119 EWAC Zack" to form the general appearance of Orbeetle. The result I've found was very astonishing, quite close to achieving the Pokemon's overall silhouette. Another person went out of his way to suggest the peculiar way the larger pair of antennae are shaped at the ends is supposed to reference the plastic model kits the series is apparently famous for. The identical part of the Gundam kits are typically moulded in that shape instead of sharp points.

The thing that surprised me the most was the apparent reasoning I was given about Orbeetle's Psychic typing. In Gundam, the focal characters are usually psychics used for war called "Newtypes", human beings who have evolved due to prolonged living in the conditions of outer space. The psychic abilites of these Newtypes vary per individual, from psychokinesis, to hallucinations, to subconscious mind control, but almost always have some form of precognition and heightened spacial awareness, which seems to somewhat match the Shield dex entry and hidden ability. The most profound effect of Newtype powers comes from a movie called "Char's Counterattack", in which the climax has the main character inspiring or controlling everyone in the war, friend and foe, to push back an asteroid from impacting Earth. The collective mental consciousness reaches a point where it becomes a physical tangible green energy that successfully pushes the asteroid away (Yeah I don't understand it either, I'm just summarising what I've read and been told). That feat of mass controlling everyone, ally and enemy alike, reminded me a bit of the Gigantimax dex entry. One more thing I was told: the move "G-Max Gravitas" may or may not be inspired after a famous (well, famous to Gundam fans) quote from a main character called Char Aznable that reads "Their souls are weighed down by gravity". Gundam is split into two factions, Earth and Space people, and that is apparently what Space-born people think of Earth-born people.

Again, I don't want to breach anyone's prerogatives. This has been stuck in my head for a long while now and I just want to be able to share my thoughts and confirm my suspicions. I've also noticed a note from the edit history: "No copyrighted characters to be used unless it's explicitly confirmed." Now there shouldn't be any real harm in having another fiction's character as basis for a Pokemon; many people believe Bisharp's design is inspired by Kamen Rider and that's fine, whether it may be true or not, the resemblance is there. Originality is a stream long dried up, neither us nor Game Freak really shouldn't bother worrying about if a Pokemon's concept is "100 percent original" or not. --Treatyofversailles1919 (talk) 11:02, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

I think you hit the nail on the head with your last statement; many of the designers likely grew up with the Gundam franchise and aspects of their design would then eventually creep in. Anyone claiming 100% originality should not be paid any attention! But anyone that can quote you model numbers from giant fictional space robots is a fan of giant fictional space robots. While there's nothing wrong with fandom (it's why we're all here, right?), they do have the tendency to see their fandom in other things - "such and such A is referencing such and such B" when in actual fact it is doing nothing of the sort (often drawing from the same source as inspiration). There is a TVTropes page for this exact tendency, but I don't have time to hunt it down.

The legs I will give you look similar, but they are hardly unique (they look more like Necrozma and I don't remember the Gundam bandwagon jumping on that). As for the head - Atlas from MechWarrior says hai. The G-Max move referencing gravity is almost certainly based around the "Orbit" portion of its name, as well as the "lo/moon" portion of its Japanese name (which as a whole could be taken as 'moon-orbit' as its base) and gravity's role in that. My point is the Gundam franchise is huge enough and has been around long enough that a similar argument could be made for many things, but the simple fact remains Game Freak are unlikely to create a character from parts of three others from a current, well-known (especially in their home market) and lucrative (est $26b us) franchise and not expect legal issues. People see what they want to see! SJ (talk) 11:32, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Copyrighted characters cannot be used as origin basis, unless there is explicit confirmation that it is the case. Regardless of how similar they look. Copyright is a fickle thing.--ForceFire 12:22, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Extra origins

I reworked most of the origin section, but couldn't find the wiki links to 'radar bug' and 'six mile radar' so I left this part out. In case anyone wants to research and add it to the page, I left my original script below. It was going to be directly after the first sentence about ladybugs.

" Its connection to radar technology could be a reference to the Radar Bug, a popular toy in Japan during the 1950's themed after a ladybug that was stated (falsely) to use such technology to navigate. The six mile range of its radar powers is the same as that of a six mile radar, a radar used to detect weather patterns, and are usually housed inside radomes, which seems to be the shell of its pre-evolved form, Dottler. "

Pallukun (talk) 21:22, 5 July 2020 (UTC)