Talk:HZ050

Quaxly Liquidation

Just to verify, at the moment, only Liko and Roy are considered main characters so any of the other RVT members Pokemon learning a new move doesn't count as a major event.--BigDocFan, Junior Admin Bulbapedia (talk) 17:23, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Out of curiosity then, given the logic, why is Quaxly's Tera type considered a major event? Azure/ChromeVoid42 (talk) 17:37, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm honestly not sure if it even should be there, either, along with several other mentions of Dot in the Terastal Debut major events. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 17:47, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, but it doesn't make any sense to simply ignore Dot's presence in the anime's events. And considering that the narrative of this new anime includes characters other than Liko and Roy, it becomes even stranger, Dot's development is very different from what they did with Chloe in the past, I would even say superior. - unsigned comment from Hikaru Wazana (talk • contribs)

Just because in your opinion Dot is playing a "bigger role" that Chloe, doesn't mean Dot is a main character. Opinions aren't facts. If the official sources do not outright state that she's a main character, then there isn't anything we can do about it. Trying to assert that she is would be misleading.--ForceFire 18:14, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

What FF said. In addition, her contribution to the series isn't being ignored. Her catching a new Pokémon, for example, still counts as a major event. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 18:18, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

I didn't use my opinion, my opinion is that we can no longer use the rules of the anime from 25 years ago when Horizons has a completely different approach than what we had with Ash. That Dot (and any other RVT member) has a unique approach to anime is a fact.

If the intention of the talk page is not to debate the subject, perhaps it would have been better not to have opened the discussion.--Hikaru Wazana (talk) 18:27, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

I want to add on to what HW said, it's not just an opinion that Dot is a main character. I feel that given her continued inclusion in the anime on the level of Liko and Roy (the titled "Main" characters), maybe the notability rules need to be revisited. Dot might not be considered a "main" character, but she is a full travelling companion now. It would make sense for her milestones to be included in the "major events". → PikaTepig999 19:40, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

"Dot's development is very different from what they did with Chloe in the past, I would even say superior." That is an opinion, Hikaru. Just because you think what they're doing with Dot is "superior" to Chloe, doesn't mean that she's a main character. And it's also your opinion that the "narrative of this new anime includes characters other than Liko and Roy", because (imo) they've been doing this since Sun & Moon, so it's not "exclusive" to the new anime series.

Just because it's a brand new series altogether, doesn't mean the rules no longer apply. It can be adjusted, but its doesn't mean we simply cast it aside completely. With this one, waiting for the official sources to call her a main character is justifiable (especially now that they're more open to sharing details and information than they were 15 years ago). We're not going to jump the gun and then get proven wrong later.--ForceFire 05:20, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Okay, ForceFire. Good luck to anyone who decides to debate the subject, I'm out. --Hikaru Wazana (talk) 12:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

(resetting indent)I'm admittedly not super involved in our coverage of anime content, but...since when are major events explicitly limited to things that happen to a "main character"? Taking a look at the history of the Sun & Moon series, major events are listed for a variety of characters: Ash, Lillie, Team Rocket, Sophocles, and Sophocles's rival Horacio, to name a few. The anime manual of style isn't very clear about what counts as a major event. So, given the prevailing conventions, I'd think milestones for any recurring character should count towards the major events section. Storm Aurora (talk) 20:53, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

A good point that was brought up in the project anime discord channel: Earlier the credits for Horizons would list Dot below other RVT members such as Friede and Orla. Recently, Dot has been listed immediately after Liko and Roy in the credits. If I'm reading the above discussion correctly, the only reason that Dot is not a main character is because the series summary only calls Liko and Roy the protagonists. It is also noted that the series summary has NOT been updated since release. Various shows, animated and live action, have had instances of guests and recurring characters later promoted to the main cast. While you might be right in waiting for official sources to call Dot a main character to change that on BP, surely Dot's milestones can be included in the major events section from HZ046 or so onwards. The policy of only main character moves included there was made during Ash's era of the anime, but since Horizons is changing the formula, we cannot rely on those policies anymore and need to revisit them to update them for the current era. → PikaTepig999 21:13, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

I swear you lot have had arguments like this before on other pages. Not getting involved, I’m just certain I’ve seen similar arguments on here Pokemaster124 (talk) 05:36, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Supporting human characters achievements are counted as major events, but their Pokémon are not. I do not know the reasons for that being the case, but that was the "unwritten rule" put in place by staff before I was one. If I had to hazard a guess, it may be because supporting character's Pokémon never really did anything of note outside of battling 15-20 years ago, so they weren't put into the equation. Even then, we should still follow the old rules until they have been updated accordingly, rather than simply discarding them before they've even been updated.--ForceFire 05:42, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Respected. Like I said, I wasn’t trying to get involved I was just certain I’d seen similar arguments Pokemaster124 (talk) 05:43, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

You are welcome to give your point of view, Pokémaster124. You don't need to be afraid or worry about it.--Hikaru Wazana (talk) 03:06, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Agreeing with everyone saying above that we shouldn't be following the OG anime's conventions with this new anime. How side characters are handled is very different, imo, as are how their Pokémon are handled. Aside from that, if learning a move is an important part of the story's plot (in the short term of the episode and the long term of the series/character arc), I think that warrants a mention. I also think following the old rules only hinders us. This isn't the Ash saga, and treating it like it is helps no one. Also seconding was Storm Aurora said, that it isn't even unprecedented in the Ash saga to treat supporting characters differently if the anime does. Welkamo (talk) 20:49, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

As a nice conclusion to this discussion, the Manual of style has been updated and Dot's achievements are considered notable enough for the Major events sections on pages from now on. meeper! ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ 03:36, 6 August 2024 (UTC)