User talk:SnorlaxMonster/End-turn resolution order

Other generations

I've found a similar thing for Generations II, IV and V. Eridanus (talk) 18:02, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Other fading effects

I believe those should be added:

• Protection
• Endure
• Identification
• Fairy Lock
• Slow Start
• Throat Chop

At least the first three should matter for Future Sight, Fairy Lock may matter with Red Card or something. I'm not sure for Throat Chop, it might even give a message. I can't make a case for Slow Start, but I think it also gives a message. (Also, it's striking that the sea of fire and Grassy terrain basically need to skip their effects in the turn they dissipate.) Nescientist (talk) 19:46, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

Future Sight/Doom Desire aren't affected by Protect/Endure/etc., so they're not relevant.

Identification is permanent; it never wears off.

Fairy Lock doesn't stop switching out via Red Card or Eject Button. It might have some relevance in Gen 7 regarding Wimp Out/Emergency Exit, but they are apparently not affected by trapping moves (and don't seem to activate for a number of end-of-turn effects).

Slow Start is an interesting one that I had missed. It has relevance in that it gives information about relative Speeds. I'll add it once I can figure out why Regigigas isn't appearing for me.

Throat Chop I might add when I make a Gen 7 list, but I don't know if it even has a dissipation message (and I can't see any functional purpose of it).

Regarding sea of fire and Grassy Terrain, they do actually apply their effects during the turn that they dissipate (unlike weather). --SnorlaxMonster 08:30, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Future Sight: I'd say it's relevant because of that. In Gen II, Protect fading appears to be in here (or two lines later, depending on the if), while Future Sight is in here, after that.

Identification: Oh, bad transition! I meant Lock-On/Mind Reader: Can/will it affect Future Sight/Doom Desire? (In Gen II, it's apparently not an end-of-turn effect, but simply unset when it takes effect. But it might very well have changed, and I didn't test Instruct yet.)

Slow Start: I didn't think of Speed, but now that I do, I think it may also alter it for anything that follows!?

Throat Chop: Didn't see the heading. (And didn't notice that Aurora Veil isn't there.)

Sea of fire/Grassy terrain: Really? Never noticed. Is that somewhere in the mainspace, then? (It's basically an extra turn, right?) Nescientist (talk) 11:49, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

I don't see Protect/Endure/etc. as wearing off though, it's just that at the end of the turn there are no effects that would take them into consideration.

For Lock-On/Mind Reader, I think the status actually wears off as soon as the attack is used, rather than at the end of the turn (which you could test with Instruct and a OHKO move). As you mentioned, this is how it works in Gen II.

Sea of fire/Grassy Terrain: I don't think it is noted, but it probably should be. It's not really the same as an extra turn though, because the passive effect of Grassy Terrain still lasts just as long as the passive effect of Sandstorm, it's only the end-of-turn effect that differs. --SnorlaxMonster 12:17, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Even when abstracting from the code, i.e. thinking purely conceptually, I believe Protect/Endure still need to wear off at the end of the turn. (They don't wear off after an attack.) I think it makes sense to include them, not only because that's apparently the chain of cause and effect internally (i.e., they apparently don't impact Future Sight because they wear off before, not because the move skips Protection/Endure checks), but also because it makes it clearer that they don't affect Future Sight/Doom Desire. But it's your decision. Nescientist (talk) 13:57, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

I was able to confirm that Lock-On and Mind Reader effects do affect Future Sight and Doom Desire in Gen VI (they did since Gen III, according to UPC): If I used Lock-On the turn Future Sight was due, or one turn before it was due, it reliably hit. (And the effects apparently do not wear off after one attack, also per Instruct testing in Gen VII.) Nescientist (talk) 15:44, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Adding to this, doesn't status immunity abilities also activate at the end of the turn if they have an opportunity to? For example, Limber would activate if a pokémon is paralyzed, at the end of the turn, I think. Also, does Shields Down/Schooling activate at the Zen Mode point? --FIQ (talk) 18:46, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Status immunity Abilities are checked immediately after a Pokémon acts (uses a move, switches, etc.). You can see this if you Baton Pass confusion to an Own Tempo Pokémon, since Baton Pass causes Own Tempo not to trigger right away (this can allow you to have a Pokémon remain confused until the start of the next turn). Whereas if a Mold Breaker Pokémon uses Thunder Wave on a Limber Pokémon, it is cured immediately (not at the end of the turn).

Shields Down/Schooling do presumably activate at the same time as Zen Mode, but I haven't checked them yet. --SnorlaxMonster 03:55, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Extend with resolution order in general

Hi, this is very useful! I was wondering, have you considered extending it to give resolution order for things in general? For example (probably wrong, but you get the idea):

• Item use
• Switching
• Mega evolution
• Focus Punch/Beak Blast announcement
• Quick Claw announcement
• Move use (maybe if feasible, detail the sequence of events in here -- possible if SM's battle engine is somewhat RE-d)
• End-turn stuff (what this lists at the moment)
• Faint-induced switching
• On-switchin abilities from faint-induced switches (IIRC this happens as a seperate block, so Intimidate after double-faint is still useful and similar)
• If there's still fainted mons at this point, go back to faint-induced switching

--FIQ (talk) 18:43, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

I have considered doing resolution order in general, but I would rather leave this userspace page to focus on the end-of-turn stuff. The order of effects around move use is something I had interest in at one point, but it's a lot of work to go into so I never got very far.

Focus Punch/Beak Blast/Shell Trap have their message displayed between priority 6 and 7. I think Quick Claw is even earlier than that. This used to be noted on the priority page, but it was removed because it was decided that they don't really act like priority moves (in that Prankster wouldn't allow a lower priority move to be performed before the messages are displayed).

From Gen V onward, Abilities that activate upon switching all have the same priority, except Unnerve which goes before all of them (since Berries activate before the other Abilities). I believe the Abilities just activate in Speed order, even when switched in. --SnorlaxMonster 03:55, 13 July 2017 (UTC)