Talk:HM slave

Please refrain from adding a list of HM slaves to this article.

List of all two-Pokemon combinations

Aerodactyl + Bibarel, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Kabutops, Pinsir, Suicune

Aggron + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Articuno + Bibarel, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Pinsir

Bibarel + Aerodactyl, Articuno, Charizard, Dragonite, Drifblim, Farfetch'd, Flygon, Giratina (Altered), Giratina(Origin), Hooh, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Moltres, Pelipper, Rayquaza, Salamence, Skarmory, Togekiss, Togetic, Tropius, Vibrava, Zapdos

Blastoise + Charizard, Drifblim, Farfetch'd, Giratina (Origin), Latias, Latios, Salamence, Skarmory, Tropius, Tropius

Blaziken + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Buizel + Giratina (Origin)

Carvanha + Giratina (Origin)

Charizard + Bibarel, Blastoise, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Golduck, Kabutops, Ludicolo, Omastar, Pinsir, Poliwrath, Suicune, Swampert

Chimchar + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Clamperl + Giratina (Origin)

Corphish + Giratina (Altered), Giratina (Origin), Giratina (Origin)

Crawdaunt + Giratina (Altered), Giratina (Origin), Giratina (Origin)

Croconaw + Giratina (Altered), Giratina (Origin), Giratina (Origin)

Darkrai + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Dewgong + Giratina (Origin)

Dragonair + Giratina (Origin)

Dragonite + Aggron, Bibarel, Blaziken, Chimchar, Darkrai, Drapion, Empoleon, Entei, Feraligatr, Gabite, Garchomp, Gible, Giratina (Origin), Grotle, Groudon, Infernape, Kabutops, Kangaskhan, Lickilicky, Lickitung, Meganium, Monferno, Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Pinsir, Raikou, Rampardos, Rhydon, Rhyperior, Sandshrew, Sandslash, Sceptile, Slaking, Steelix, Suicune, Torterra, Toxicroak, Turtwig, Typhlosion, Tyranitar, Ursaring, Venusaur, Vigoroth, Vigoroth

Drapion + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Dratini + Giratina (Origin)

Drifblim + Bibarel, Blastoise, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Golduck, Ludicolo, Pinsir, Poliwrath, Swampert

Empoleon + Aerodactyl, Articuno, Charizard, Dragonite, Drifblim, Farfetch'd, Flygon, Giratina (Altered), Giratina (Origin), Ho-oh, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Moltres, Pelipper, Rayquaza, Salamence, Skarmory, Togekiss, Togetic, Tropius, Vibrava, Zapdos

Entei + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Exploud + Latias, Latios

Farfetch'd + Bibarel, Blastoise, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Golduck, Ludicolo, Pinsir, Poliwrath, Swampert

Feebas + Giratina (Origin)

Feraligatr + Aerodactyl, Articuno, Charizard, Dragonite, Drifblim, Farfetch'd, Flygon, Giratina (Altered), Giratina (Origin), Ho-oh, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Moltres, Pelipper, Rayquaza, Salamence, Skarmory, Togekiss, Togetic, Tropius, Vibrava, Zapdos

Finneon + Giratina (Origin)

Floatzel + Giratina (Origin)

Flygon + Bibarel, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Kabutops, Pinsir, Suicune

Gabite + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Garchomp + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Gastrodon + Giratina (Origin)

Gible + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Giratina (Altered) + Bibarel, Corphish, Crawdaunt, Croconaw, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Kabutops, Latias, Latios, Pinsir, Prinplup, Suicune, Tentacool, Tentacruel, Totodile, Totodile

Giratina (Origin) + Azumarill, Azurill, Barboach, Bibarel, Blastoise, Buizel, Carvanha, Clamperl, Corphish, Crawdaunt, Croconaw, Dewgong, Dragonair, Dragonite, Dratini, Empoleon, Feebas, Feraligatr, Finneon, Floatzel, Gastrodon, Goldeen, Golduck, Gorebyss, Gyarados, Horsea, Huntail, Kabuto, Kabutops, Kingdra, Kyogre, Lanturn, Lapras, Latias, Latios, Lombre, Ludicolo, Lugia, Lumineon, Luvdisc, Manaphy, Mantine, Mantyke, Marill, Marshtomp, Milotic, Mudkip, Omanyte, Omastar, Phione, Pinsir, Politoed, Poliwag, Poliwhirl, Poliwrath, Prinplup, Psyduck, Quagsire, Rayquaza, Relicanth, Remoraid, Seadra, Seaking, Sealeo, Seel, Sharpedo, Spheal, Squirtle, Starmie, Staryu, Suicune, Swampert, Tentacool, Tentacruel, Totodile, Vaporeon, Wailmer, Wailord, Walrein, Wartortle, Whiscash, Whiscash

Goldeen + Giratina (Origin)

Golduck + Charizard, Drifblim, Farfetch'd, Giratina (Origin), Latias, Latios, Salamence, Skarmory, Tropius, Tropius

Gorebyss + Giratina (Origin)

Grotle + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Groudon + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Gyarados + Giratina (Origin)

Hariyama + Latias, Latios

Ho-oh + Bibarel, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Kabutops, Pinsir, Suicune

Horsea + Giratina (Origin)

Huntail + Giratina (Origin)

Infernape + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Kabuto + Giratina (Origin)

Kabutops + Aerodactyl, Charizard, Dragonite, Flygon, Giratina (Altered), Giratina (Origin), Ho-oh, Lugia, Rayquaza, Salamence, Tropius, Vibrava, Tropius, Vibrava

Kangaskhan + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Kingdra + Giratina (Origin)

Kyogre + Giratina (Origin)

Lanturn + Giratina (Origin)

Lapras + Giratina (Origin)

Latias + Aggron, Bibarel, Blastoise, Blaziken, Chimchar, Darkrai, Drapion, Empoleon, Entei, Exploud, Feraligatr, Gabite, Garchomp, Gible, Giratina (Altered), Giratina (Origin), Golduck, Grotle, Groudon, Hariyama, Infernape, Kangaskhan, Lickilicky, Lickitung, Ludicolo, Makuhita, Meganium, Monferno, Munchlax, Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Pinsir, Poliwrath, Raikou, Rampardos, Rhydon, Rhyperior, Sandshrew, Sandslash, Sceptile, Slaking, Snorlax, Steelix, Swampert, Tauros, Torterra, Toxicroak, Turtwig, Typhlosion, Tyranitar, Ursaring, Venusaur, Vigoroth, Venusaur, Vigoroth

Latios + Aggron, Bibarel, Blastoise, Blaziken, Chimchar, Darkrai, Drapion, Empoleon, Entei, Exploud, Feraligatr, Gabite, Garchomp, Gible, Giratina (Altered), Giratina (Origin), Golduck, Grotle, Groudon, Hariyama, Infernape, Kangaskhan, Lickilicky, Lickitung, Ludicolo, Makuhita, Meganium, Monferno, Munchlax, Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Pinsir, Poliwrath, Raikou, Rampardos, Rhydon, Rhyperior, Sandshrew, Sandslash, Sceptile, Slaking, Snorlax, Steelix, Swampert, Tauros, Torterra, Toxicroak, Turtwig, Typhlosion, Tyranitar, Ursaring, Venusaur, Vigoroth, Venusaur, Vigoroth

Lickilicky + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Lickitung + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Lombre + Giratina (Origin)

Ludicolo + Charizard, Drifblim, Farfetch'd, Giratina (Origin), Latias, Latios, Salamence, Skarmory, Tropius, Tropius

Lugia + Aggron, Bibarel, Blaziken, Chimchar, Darkrai, Drapion, Empoleon, Entei, Feraligatr, Gabite, Garchomp, Gible, Giratina (Origin), Grotle, Groudon, Infernape, Kabutops, Kangaskhan, Lickilicky, Lickitung, Meganium, Monferno, Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Pinsir, Raikou, Rampardos, Rhydon, Rhyperior, Sandshrew, Sandslash, Sceptile, Slaking, Steelix, Suicune, Torterra, Toxicroak, Turtwig, Typhlosion, Tyranitar, Ursaring, Venusaur, Vigoroth, Vigoroth

Lumineon + Giratina (Origin)

Luvdisc + Giratina (Origin)

Makuhita + Latias, Latios

Manaphy + Giratina (Origin)

Mantine + Giratina (Origin)

Mantyke + Giratina (Origin)

Marill + Giratina (Origin)

Marshtomp + Giratina (Origin)

Meganium + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Milotic + Giratina (Origin)

Moltres + Bibarel, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Pinsir

Monferno + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Mudkip + Giratina (Origin)

Munchlax + Latias, Latios

Nidoking + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Nidoqueen + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Omanyte + Giratina (Origin)

Omastar + Charizard, Giratina (Origin), Salamence, Tropius, Tropius

Pelipper + Bibarel, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Pinsir

Phione + Giratina (Origin)

Pinsir + Aerodactyl, Articuno, Charizard, Dragonite, Drifblim, Farfetch'd, Flygon, Giratina (Altered), Giratina (Origin), Ho-oh, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Moltres, Pelipper, Rayquaza, Salamence, Skarmory, Togekiss, Togetic, Tropius, Vibrava, Zapdos, Vibrava, Zapdos

Politoed + Giratina (Origin)

Poliwag + Giratina (Origin)

Poliwhirl + Giratina (Origin)

Poliwrath + Charizard, Drifblim, Farfetch'd, Giratina (Origin), Latias, Latios, Salamence, Skarmory, Tropius, Tropius

Prinplup + Giratina (Altered), Giratina (Origin), Giratina (Origin)

Psyduck + Giratina (Origin)

Quagsire + Giratina (Origin)

Raikou + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Rampardos + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Rayquaza + Aggron, Bibarel, Blaziken, Chimchar, Darkrai, Drapion, Empoleon, Entei, Feraligatr, Gabite, Garchomp, Gible, Giratina (Origin), Grotle, Groudon, Infernape, Kabutops, Kangaskhan, Lickilicky, Lickitung, Meganium, Monferno, Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Pinsir, Raikou, Rampardos, Rhydon, Rhyperior, Sandshrew, Sandslash, Sceptile, Slaking, Steelix, Suicune, Torterra, Toxicroak, Turtwig, Typhlosion, Tyranitar, Ursaring, Venusaur, Vigoroth, Vigoroth

Relicanth + Giratina (Origin)

Remoraid + Giratina (Origin)

Rhydon + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Rhyperior + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Salamence + Bibarel, Blastoise, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Golduck, Kabutops, Ludicolo, Omastar, Pinsir, Poliwrath, Suicune, Swampert

Sandshrew + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Sandslash + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Sceptile + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Seadra + Giratina (Origin)

Seaking + Giratina (Origin)

Sealeo + Giratina (Origin)

Seel + Giratina (Origin)

Sharpedo + Giratina (Origin)

Skarmory + Bibarel, Blastoise, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Golduck, Ludicolo, Pinsir, Poliwrath, Swampert

Slaking + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Snorlax + Latias, Latios

Spheal + Giratina (Origin)

Squirtle + Giratina (Origin)

Starmie + Giratina (Origin)

Staryu + Giratina (Origin)

Steelix + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Suicune + Aerodactyl, Charizard, Dragonite, Flygon, Giratina (Altered), Giratina (Origin), Ho-oh, Lugia, Rayquaza, Salamence, Tropius, Vibrava, Tropius, Vibrava

Swampert + Charizard, Drifblim, Farfetch'd, Giratina (Origin), Latias, Latios, Salamence, Skarmory, Tropius, Tropius

Tauros + Latias, Latios

Tentacool + Giratina (Altered), Giratina (Origin), Giratina (Origin)

Tentacruel + Giratina (Altered), Giratina (Origin), Giratina (Origin)

Togekiss + Bibarel, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Pinsir

Togetic + Bibarel, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Pinsir

Torterra + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Totodile + Giratina (Altered), Giratina (Origin), Giratina (Origin)

Toxicroak + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Tropius + Bibarel, Blastoise, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Golduck, Kabutops, Ludicolo, Omastar, Pinsir, Poliwrath, Suicune, Swampert

Turtwig + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Typhlosion + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Tyranitar + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Ursaring + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Vaporeon + Giratina (Origin)

Venusaur + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Vibrava + Bibarel, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Kabutops, Pinsir, Suicune

Vigoroth + Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Rayquaza

Wailmer + Giratina (Origin)

Wailord + Giratina (Origin)

Walrein + Giratina (Origin)

Wartortle + Giratina (Origin)

Whiscash + Giratina (Origin)

Zapdos + Bibarel, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Pinsir

You all may do with this as you wish. Skandranonsg 18:41, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

For HGSS, Tentacruel+Psyduck give you everything but Fly. Fly is a decent enough move that you probably have it on one of your other Pokémon anyway, and Tentacruel and Psyduck aren't damn-near-impossible to obtain like most of these are. I'd hazard that Psyduck can also learn Teleport or Dig (can you buy those as TMs?), which would get you back to a Pokémon centre, where you can then switch for someone that can fly. HyperHacker 07:12, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Best mules?

I didn't know if this was worth mentioning or not (sorry if it isn't) but after a little research I've always used Golduck and Tropius. Between the two of them they can learn all 8 HMs, which only takes up two slots with no switching. - unsigned comment from Ndoki (talk • contribs)

I had the same with the Tropius-Tentacruel duo, which I found pretty much by chance. For this reason I transferred a random Tropius to my Leaf Green later on.

For a pokémon to team up well with Tropius you only need a water pokémon that can learn all water HMs plus one other HM, so with a little research on Bulbapedia I found another good amount of candidates in Hoenn. I excluded starters and legendaries.

• Water HMs + cut: Tentacool &up, Crawdaunt
• Water HMs + strength: Psyduck &up, Gyarados, Maril &up, Quagsire (Emerald), Sharpedo, Wailmer &up, Wishcash, Crawdaunt, Spheal &up.
• Water HMs + flash: Psyduck &up, Staryu &up, Chinchou &up, Wooper &up (Emerald), Lotad &up (Saphire and Emerald)
• Water HMs + rock smash: Psyduck &up, Gyarados, Maril &up, Wooper &up (Emerald), Lombre &up (Saphire and Emerald), Sharpedo, Wailmer &up, Wishcash, Crawdaunt, Spheal &up, Relicanth.

So as you see, it might be more useful to make a list of water pokémon that don't make a perfect team with Tropius in Hoenn. By the way, you don't have the HM Dive in Fire Red and Leaf Green, so if you have a Tropius there, you can choose to use your TM28 (Dig) on a water pokémon like Psyduck, Slowpoke, Poliwhirl or Krabby as your second slave.

And from what I can tell from the current list, Bibarel and Skarmory make a good combo for HMs in Diamond, Pearl and Platinum. --Spenvdm 18:43, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Topic

can anyone give me a list of HM mules? - unsigned comment from Link-BOX (talk • contribs)

Depends on what the exact definition is. I know that Gyarados and Bibarel can both learn HMs to fill up their moves. Mew, of course, can. --TTEchidna 18:50, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Every Pokémon can be a HM Slave. For example my Yan Long (my female Onix) has 3 HM moves in her moveset: Strength, Rock Climb, Rock Smash. She's nothing more than a HM "mule". I use her only to get through dungeon. Every Pokémon who learns HMs can be a HM Slave, there is no specific list. --Maxim 20:43, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I suppose that if you want a combination of two Pokémon to have four HMs each to fill out their moveset so that between them you have all eight HMs, Tropius/Chinchou in RSE is one such combination (and Kyogre/Rayquaza), as is Bibarel/Skarmory in DP. And of course, two Mews. -ルカリオ 14:18, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Also Wailord. Theininen 20:36, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Page name

In the many years I have been online and browsing Pokémon websites, this is the first time I have seen the term "HM Mule" used. In fact, the Google search results display a dramatic difference between the two terms (with omitted results included), HM Slave giving 540 results, and HM Mule giving only 117. And a large number of the latter have little or no relation to Pokémon whatsoever. Wouldn't it make more sense to name the article after the more common term?

~~~~. System Error 19:54, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree with System Error. I vote we move this page. - Jonah 20:04, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok, as a count from today, "HM Mule" 111 Google hits; "HM Slave" 592, and "HM Bitch" 306. Move page to "HM Slave", and add a redirect page for "HM Bitch" to it?" (This page is also the first time I've seen "HM Mule"; I've previously used the other two terms, with a preference for the latter.) -ルカリオ 14:15, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

What about HM Whore? I've heard that a lot. So that should be a redirect, shouldn't it?--Goukazaru 16:15, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I've only heard of HM slaves, although I (being me) call them HMers, but that's just what I say, but that in google and you get zilch-o. File:Ani197MS.gifMidnight CelticFile:Ani148MS.gif 16:54, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Maybe the page should be called HM Slaves/Mules, or something???

Although, I personally use HM Monkeys. Not my decision, though. It's fine if you don't use my suggestion, I don't expect you to. I am Darth Mewtwo... Fear me, and my team made entirely of Mewtwo!!! 16:09, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Defog?

Back at my old forums, someone posted something about Defog, calling it another Rapid spin sans damage. He/She/It said that defog could remove Stealth Rocks, Spikes, and other things I can't remember. Everyone seemed to believe said He/She/It, has anyone tested that? File:Ani197MS.gifMidnight CelticFile:Ani148MS.gif 16:59, 1 January 2008 (UTC) Yeah, Defog DOES remove Stealth Rock and Spikes. And Toxic Spikes, Light Screen, Reflect, Safeguard, and Mist. On your opponent's side of the battlefield. So yeah. It's bad if you set up Spikes/Stealth Rock/Toxic Spikes, but good if your opponent set up anything else. Oh, and obviously it clears fog from the battle. -- Glitch Pokémon. Official Pokémon. There is no real difference between the two. In my opinion, the two should be considered equal!-- quoted by Missingno. Master 01:02, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

So then why is it considered the 'worst' tm ever.. I remember flash being pretty damn useless.. Sylari 21:26, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

not TM,Hm GoldsWigglytuff

I assume because most trainers feel the lowering of one's accuracy is far more frustrating then the removal of spikes. --The Great Snorlax 15:44, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Question.

Is there anything besides Mew that can learn all five/seven/eight in a specific generation? TTEchidna 05:41, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, there's Smeargle... in a way. But then he wasn't introduced until Generation II.. - _s.Combusken 05:45, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

There's also Arceus in Generation IV...ShadowLugiaEx 17:19, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Dragonite

Dragonite and Bibarel can learn all of the HM moves between them (although it's a trek to train a Dragonite, but better than using a Lugia). King Neoterikos 08:15, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Tropius and Bibarel can also learn them all. Of course, Tropius is tough to find unless you have Platinum or access to Pal Park. - unsigned comment from Osiris32 (talk • contribs)

So

Opinions on my listing revamp? Should I kill the on-field moves and leave it as HM-only? TTEchidna 19:56, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Disagreement

As MAGNEDETH argues in the edit made on December 4 of 2009 about the tables made by me and edited later by TTEchidna (sorry for the awful mess XD TTEchidna's version rules):

"Most HM slaves are incredibly common Pokémon, typically those which can be captured on the first routes of a given game." - these examples are ANYTHING but...

I agree with him in some points, first of all... "Any common pokémon capable of learning HMs can become an HM Slave" yes, second... "typically those pokémon are captured at the beginning of the game because you need to use this abilities" yes, this is also true, BUT... the purpose of the table mentioned before was to solve the question that almost every pokémon gamer has asked himself at some point of the games, "Wich are the best pokémons in each generation to carry my HMs and Field moves?", the best and logical answer is "the pokémon who can learn the most quantity of HMs per game", obviously you can't left this task to a single pokémon since they can only learn four moves, so the idea is to distribute the HMs and Field Moves of a certain generation onto the minimum amount of HM slaves possible, maybe you'll need several HM slaves at the beginning but at some point of the game you can say "Why not concentrate all those abilities onto the minimum pokémon combination possible? this way I can throw away all those several incredibly common HM slaves that I have".

So, my point is... the tables mentioned before wasn't random examples of what an HM slave can be, or examples of common pokémons (in the meaning of not rare) that can be HM slaves, they are, according to most people, the best pokémons of each generation for being HM Slave (If you don't believe me read other forums); and this tables follows the following rules:

• The tables shows only pokémons capable of perform HMs and field moves.
• The tables shows the pokémons most compatible with HMs and field moves.
• The tables shows only pokémons capable of fill their four moves with HMs and/or field moves.
• This pokémons are combinable in the way that every HM or field move is covered between a minimum combination of pokémons.
• The tables covers and allows to view wich are all the HMs and field moves for every generation.

Obviously there's not exist one unique combination for this, but, for example, if you want to have all the eight field moves of Generation I in the best pokémon combination possible, you know that you need at least 2 HM slaves wich is the minimum of pokémons necesary to cover all the eight field moves (HMs & TMs wich do so), so, instead of investigate wich pokémon can learn wich move and so on, you can check the table, pick two pokémons, compare their possible moves and decide what is the best for you; for that reason I've decided to restore the tables until someone else suggests something better. I'll try to improve the meaning of the tables changing the title "common HM slaves" to something else to not confuse people between "most commonly used pokémons for HM Slaves because of their compability with HMs" than "Examples of Common Pókemons able to be HM Slaves".

Ok, sorry for this huge explanation and sorry for my poor grammar in english (it's not my native language but I'm practicing), I'm just trying to be part and contribute (even a little) with this wonderful community, greetings. -Daipop 20:52, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree that this is a page worth expanding upon. Maybe we limit what we add by having a minimum limit to how many HM or Field moves that Pokemon can have and be included? 6 or more sounds good to me. Any suggestions? --Fallen Reality 17:07, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm removing Milk Drink and Softboiled since they are specific to very few (1 or 2) Pokemon as soon as Gen 1+2 templates are unlocked. It's pointless to have them on the charts as I see it. --Fallen Reality 05:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Update for HGSS?

Having looked at the list purely out of interest, i thought it was very DPP centric, *most* of the pokemon are quite difficult to obtain in HGSS. One suggestion i have that is significantly easier to obtain in HGSS than other games is kangaskhan, available from the first course on the pokewalker, and in this game learns 6/8 HMs and can learn dig as a bonus. Is it worth adding this to the list? Along with others that are possible better fits to HGSS? - unsigned comment from Dudemango (talk • contribs)

The article is known to be incomplete. If you can help expand it, that would be great. —darklordtrom 11:32, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Farfetch'd?!

How's Farfetch'd on the list? It only knows two HMs/field moves, Cut and Fly. So... Should we take it out?--Valorum27 05:18, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Tentacool

Tentacool/cruel can learn Cut plus various Water-type HMs depending on the generation. Kylegetsspam 02:42, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Too Limited

I just started a new game in Crystal and found this page. I was very excited when I found it, but very disappointed when I looked at it. My specific situation is that I neet to teach cut to someone, but don't want to just waste a Pokemon with it. I also have flash, so ideally I would teach cut and flash to one Pokemon and that Pokemon could learn another move later. But this list only includes 6 Pokemon, none of which are available to me at this point. And only two can even learn cut (Mew and Bayleef), neither of which will ever be available to me in this game. I think that ideally, this page would be an extensive list of options, rather than a few almost perfect options that are only available late in the game. This would be much more useful for people in my situation if it included every Pokemon that can learn a minimum of three HMs. Pathock 22:06, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Two things.

1. This article is rather incomplete at the moment.
2. The idea of this article is to list Pokémon which can learn many HM moves. A lot of these aren't available until later in the games, so you may find you need to catch a common low level Pokémon to teach Cut, and then box it later on when you can get something which can learn more HM moves.

In the mean time, you may find this list helpful. Werdnae (talk) 22:23, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Late in the game, you don't need very many HMs. You just need things like surf and fly for getting around. It's before you beat the game that you have to worry about covering many HMs with as few Pokemon as possible because you need the space for your real Pokemon. I think that the purpose of this page should be helping people to find good HM slaves, not listing Pokemon that know five or more HMs. That's not even helpful when they can only learn four. By the way, I ended up using Bellsprout because it can learn flash and cut, later teaching surf to Totodile, strength, rock smash, whirlpool, and waterfall to a Psyduck, and then fly to Pidgey. Pathock 22:34, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the idea that we should cover Pokémon that people playing the game may need to have early on as well as those that learn a large number. Bellsprout learning flash and cut gets you through the beginning of HGSS but means you need extra Pokémon with you to go anywhere. I have 4 early Pokemon that do nothing more then carry HMs in HG and as many in Pearl. But I do belive that if it were a comprehensive list people could easily see what they wanted or even what to traid over. In HGSS you can get Kangaskhan from a Pokéwalker course at the beginning like I did (2) and potentially teach her HM01,03,04,06,08, & TM28. I would be happy to go through my walkthroughs and add in a choprehensive list to Gen 3&4 if no one objects. 011284mm 10:32, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Article Length

This page is REALLY long, so I was thinking maybe we could split up the page into 5 different pages for each generation like with the movelists on pokemon pages, would that work? Pikiwyn ^talk 19:02, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

I would prefer to remove the strategy section (i.e. the list of HM slaves) and put it in the mainspace... Same with FEAR. —darklordtrom 19:43, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree, I don't think the list is very useful either. I think the list for FEAR should be kept though. Pikiwyn ^talk 09:36, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

So can we mainspace it? Pikiwyn ^talk 17:28, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Done. —darklordtrom 07:30, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

I disagree. If someone made the list and other people kept updating it, it's because it's useful. What the hell people? Because it's not useful to you, it doesn't mean that it's not useful to anyone else. I was pissed that I could not find the list, with Gen V pokémons and I still am. ETA : Hey, you are probably right though. A list of pokémons by height, weight, or body style is much more useful than a damn list of pokémons by the HMs they can learn. What the hell was I thinking? Stoo 19:49, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Why no list?!

There used to be a list of pokémons with the HMs they could use. I came just for that, hoping to see a list of the Gen V pokémons because I am currently at the beginning of the game, I have never played and I need a mule. That you have removed the list totally sucks and if it could be useful to me, it would probably be for other people too. It was stupid to remove it. Stoo 19:40, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

The list was keeping the page in the Appendix namespace. It is a fact that HM slaves exist. What Pokémon are good HM slaves is not a fact. It is an opinion, and thus does not belong in the mainspace. Werdnae (talk) 06:00, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

The list was a list of pokémons along with the HMs they could learn. Those are FACTs. It was a _referrence_ list, not a goddamn opinion. There was nothing in that list pointing to any particular pokémon that hinted that "<== THIS IS A GOOD HM SLAVE!!!1120N3". If I remember correctly, it even contained pokémons that could only learn one or two HMs. So it was NOT an opinion. The list could have been made into another page, but not completely removed. Also, the list cannot be accessed from history, it's been giving a "Connection was reset". Stoo 19:40, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

How about having a list of ONLY those pokemon that can learn at least four HMs (meaning they can have a full set of four HM moves as their moveset)? This would make such pokemon natural HM slaves, and is purely a matter of fact, not opinion or preference. Also, Stoo - you can actually access the list, at least in source form, if you perform a "difference" between the current version and a version that had the list. Aielyn 13:26, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

I was really hoping to just find a big table for each generation listing which Pokémon can learn which field moves, or which moves can be learned by whom. A list of those that can learn 3 or 4 field moves would be handy too. HyperHacker 07:22, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

As there is clearly interest in there being a proper list, and nobody has responded to my question in the meantime, I have done up a listing of the Gen V pokemon that can learn 4 or more HMs, as these are rather objectively HM slave candidates, independent of any personal opinion. If it really does offend people to have such a list, revert it, but please first have a quick look and think about any real issues with such a list - I'd rather it not just be removed because someone wasn't even willing to consider changing the rules. (for the record, I was going to construct the list in my userspace and ask for opinions about it that way, but a restriction currently gets in the way). Aielyn 15:25, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but even if there's interest on it, we can't go for it, as that list is subject to biased opinions even as objectively as you can be, which is rather unencylopedic; and given what Bulbapedia is, we cannot allow it. One could see an HM slave where it's not and viceversa, and that'd lead to several Conflict of Interest-related issues, which would be a bad thing for the people involved. And a suggestion, if you wanted to create something in your userspace, you could use the public Sandbox to create it, as long as it's made for potential mainspace use. Masatoshi_talk 16:22, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

I would like to again disagree with that assertion - the very definition of HM Slave is a pokemon whose purpose is the carriage of HMs. As such, a pokemon that can carry four HMs is a natural and objective example of a HM Slave. Such a listing is sufficiently restrictive as to prevent it from just being a list of pokemon (that is, a large proportion of pokemon do not satisfy this quality, with about 6% being present in the Gen V list), and of real use for people who come to this page looking for HM Slave ideas. I suppose the question is, is Bulbapedia meant to just be a bland listing of facts, or is it meant to be a useful resource? To me, an encyclopaedia's value is that it is a resource that people can go to when they need information in a convenient and condensed form. I won't re-add the edits I made, but I do ask that this actually be opened up for real discussion, rather than just being blocked and ignored. Aielyn 16:41, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

I can see your point, but the COI still stands as a major obstacle at this. This is widely a target of subjectivism. It depends on how many moves a Pokémon may be able to learn in order to become an HM slave, and which ones are used for such, that might be confusing in the end. Take me for example, I don't see any Pokémon as an HM slave unless they are able to learn ALL HM moves (including region-exclusive ones, such as Dive). Some people would add certain Pokémon because "it's what I use" and then add their favorite Pokémon having a themed series of HMs, such as water-themed HM moves (Surf, Waterfall, Dive), and as such they are an HM slave. That's the one and only thing that prevents me from adding a list, which is subjectivism, it's one of an encyclopedia's worst enemies (I hope I never find a, say... right-winged biased encyclopedia --Actually, there is, Conservapedia--, or for example an encyclopedia that ignores the Armenian genocide), but you're welcome to try and get a consensus, though I can't really assure you that the list will be made anyway. Masatoshi_talk 17:24, 25 January 2012 (UTC)