Talk:SOS Battle

Weather and SOS Battles

I'm not sure how we will want to handle this on the page and on the other location pages but, weather does affect the Pokémon that appear in an SOS Battle. Pokémon such as Castform, Goomy, Poliwhirl, Poliwrath, and Politoed only appear if it is raining. Other Pokémon may also appear with the other weather conditions in play. Adamws (talk) 01:18, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

I've so far been able to try an SOS Battle once while it was raining in Lush Jungle. I ran into a Trumbeak, used an Adrenaline Orb...and it called 14 Trumbeak before I gave up on it.

I, for one, have only the least idea what all the conditions of this are. About how common/rare are they when these special allies can be called? (Can only the special Pokemon be called, or can the Pokemon's normal allies still be called?) Does it matter who the original encounter is? (I.e., is there one Pokemon that can call Castform, and another that can call Goomy, and another for Poliwhirl, and another for Poliwrath, and another for Politoed?) Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:28, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I did a small scale test in Malie Garden during the day in Moon. I can, in part, answer your questions.

1. Pokémon can summon their normal allies as well as the special Pokémon. They will more commonly summon their normal allies than a special Pokémon (with 10 successful calls from Psyduck in the rain, nine were Psyduck and one was a Poliwhirl).

2. All Pokémon in the area can summon any of the special Pokémon, as I was able to encounter at least one Poliwhirl with each specie I tested. My guess is that each special Pokémon has a different chance of being summoned for each area (example: Poliwhirl, Poliwrath (day only), Politoad (night only), and Castform are all obtainable through SOS Battles in the rain in Malie Garden, but on Route 17 under the same circumstances, only Castform can be found). This will need to be tested further for more exact percentage chances.

While this may not be a larger-scale test, it did at least give some insight. Adamws (talk) 05:58, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

I've made a basic table based on what you said you tested. If you/anyone can fill out more, that'd be great. I'm not certain how to put this on location pages, but we can figure that out in a little bit. Tiddlywinks (talk) 07:41, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Do you guys have reliable/approved encounter slots? I believe there's one for sun, one for rain, one for hail, one for sandstorm (in that order, so maybe try to get your Poliwhirl in sun). What I can confirm is that there's Gabite in Haina Desert's sandstorm for both Sandile and Trapinch. They appear to be called less likely than their species (but that could also be some SOS mechanic like chains or idk what). Nescientist (talk) 12:03, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Weather Pokemon are not at all part of all the other normal wild encounter data. Tiddlywinks (talk) 14:48, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

I just realized the Pokedex will show the locations of these weather allies, and Castform appears to be everywhere. Double-checking with the guide (via a third party), I've filled in that table now so it's hopefully complete. Thanks for clarifying some of the things above so we could add this info! I think I know a way to add this to locations, so later on I'll see about doing that.

As a note to myself as much as anything, it may also be nice to note the times these weathers are in effect. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:26, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Are you sure about the Castforms? I believe they're "the rest of weathers" (all other wheathers than the other weather-exclusives). I have not (yet?) seen a Castform in sand at Haina Desert. Nescientist (talk) 18:38, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

More than anything, just look up Castform's locations in the Pokedex. But the guide does list Castform and [something else] in every location listed (and its form matches the indicated weather...Sunny Form notwithstanding). (I'm not 100% certain what you mean, though, so if you do find Castform somewhere, I'd be very happy to know the details.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:44, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

I mean: Does the guidebook say Castform shows up in weather <whatever you listed>? Or just in some weather/at all? Pokédex just says it's there, no weather details. My idea is: you remove whatever weather you need to get something other than Castform, you get only Castform. I found five Gabite, not one Castform in Haina Desert in sandstorm. Nescientist (talk) 19:00, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

The guide says things like, "When it rains, Castform (Rainy Form) and Sliggoo may appear in battles." (This is also specifically about SOS allies.) And the Pokedex shows all the weather allies basically the same, whether Castform or Goomy or whoever. Tiddlywinks (talk) 19:06, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

I did a decent amount of battles in Haina Desert. In nearly half an hour during sunshine, neither Gabite nor Castform appeared. (Relating to what I said above, I believe the slot I initially thought to be "sun" is "rain" as well. Which makes senses for the Polis final forms, I'll get back to that below.) In rain, Castform appeared after ten minutes (and immediately transformed to Rainy Form), and/but no Gabite appeared. Same-species allies always appeared, more often.

To summarize: I believe that between rain, hail, and sandstorm, extra species can appear in a specific weather per location (Gabite in Haina Desert in sandstorm, Goomy on Route 17 in rain, etc.); if you change the weather to something else of those, Castform can appear instead. In sun, nothing additional can ever appear (I'm not 100% sure on that one, but fairly certain, despite that being very odd).

In addition, the German page Malie Garden says Politoed can show up at night in both Sun and Moon. Nescientist (talk) 20:44, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Can you clarify for me: what's the natural weather condition(s) in Haina Desert?

And are you saying you used something like Sunny Day and Castform appeared?

(If so) By that logic, can you use Rain Dance and get Poliwhirl (or some such, depending on where you are)? Tiddlywinks (talk) 20:52, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

There's a sunny and a sandstorm part. Castform appeared in the sunny part after I used Rain Dance. All other tests I've done were in the sandy part (with or without Drought). Poliwhirl would be in Malie Garden, and according to Adamws above, yes (I don't think there's natural rain, at least not for me now). Nescientist (talk) 20:56, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Since this requires that the guide be wrong, it'd be best if we can verify Castform appearing in weather it "shouldn't" in each place. If this is verified for a given place, feel free to change it in the table. (And please explain that in-battle weather-changing effects can influence these allies.) FYI, the guide also said Malie Garden gets rain just before night, which jives with what I've seen the one time I saw rain at Brooklet Hill and Lush Jungle (about an hour before night).

Also, just to check, where are you in the island challenge? If I try to make something appear somewhere, I don't want to keep trying forever if there's a chance it might not be possible for me yet. =P Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:11, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Castform appeared where it shouldn't. According to what you wrote, it should appear in sandstorm, but it did in rain (and in everything I've done, it didn't in sandstorm). If what you wrote is what the guide says, I cannot (by nature) verify it is wrong, but it is at least incomplete.

I'm a Champion. Haina Desert can be accessed once you completed Acerola's trial, Malie Garden as soon as you land on Ula'ula (and Lush Jungle is on Akala). Nescientist (talk) 21:22, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

I'm not arguing what you wrote or anything...? I'm basically saying, do exactly what you did, and update the table when you can verify something different from what it claims for Castform. (Although, for the sake of completeness, I'd actually be more comfortable if you could also verify that making rain with Rain Dance/whatever in the sandstorm area can also yield Castform.)

(And yes, I mean go ahead and presume that it can't be found in the weather the guide indicated. If anyone does find it in that weather later, we can revisit it.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:32, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

If the guidebook be only overruled per location, that's the best I could do. I might test hail in the desert, but certainly not everything. Nescientist (talk) 22:22, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

(resetting indent)Just sharing what I have now: datamining suggests there are apparently six "slots" for weather SOS allies, where the odd ones include Goomy, Poliwhirl, Sliggoo (1), Vanillite, Vanillish (3), and Gabite (5) in locations where they should appear in rain (1), snow (3) and sandstorm (5) respectively. I'm sure they do. Politoed/wrath is in slot 0 for day/night, everything else is always Castform in weather SOS locations. So, everything would make perfect sense if the even slots were for rain, snow, and sandstorm as well, but with a smaller probability; the guidebook wouldn't have lied, it would just have been largely incomplete and veeery misleading. And it would additionally make sense that a user recently found Castform in rain on Exeggutor Island, which is where it should be according to the guidebook. The only problem is that I cannot find Castform in Haina Desert's sandstorm. I've tested for hours, and there's not a single Castform, so the probability is either below 1% (and very much harder than to find a Shiny), or there is some special requirement. I thought that special requirement to be that the odd-slot ally itself calls for help, except that Gabite don't ever call for help. Having seen the "call rates" from below (Gabite at 0, but not Poliwhirl), I'm still willing to test it a Malie Garden (but I can't explain the Exeggutor Island thing). Nescientist (talk) 11:44, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Castform definitely appears in rain in Lush Jungle. Even if we're not sure what other weathers it appears in, we should add Rain in instead of "Unknown" since it's clear that rain is a known quantity. I've caught it twice during SOS, but only during the afternoon rainfall on my way home from work. I've tried using Rain Dance and other weathers to trigger, but it's so finnicky and the PP limit makes it tough to trigger Castform under Sunny Day/Hail/Sandstorm conditions, at least without weather ability 'mons like Hidden ability Ninetales. Satosuke (talk) 13:30, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Please go ahead with whatever you have. I didn't know that (for sure), but I am sure that in-game weather is relevant. (And if you could give a rough estimate of the Castform probability (in general and in contrast to Goomy's) here, I'd appreciate that.)

For the Polis, I will then probably (also) try to get a final form from the initial encounter. (They might have just forgetten to enable/include slots 2 and 4 somehow??) And I'm interested in whether Poliwhirl can only call Poliwhirl, or also whatever the original encounter was. Nescientist (talk) 13:44, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

I forgot all about those weather-ally slots... (It wasn't in the early version that I initially saved.) Given the pattern there, I tried spending a while in Malie Garden after it started raining, and I found a Psyduck (high call rate) and kept going until I had 150 answered calls. 133 of those were Psyduck, 15 were Poliwhirl (10%), and 2 were Poliwrath (roughly 1%).

My bets are on that rare/off slot indeed being right around 1%, even given your lack of luck in Haina Desert, Nescientist. I plan to spend a bit in Haina Desert this evening too and see if I can find a Castform in the sandstorm. I probably won't take it as far as that Malie Garden tally, though. I mainly just want to be able to confirm it's there, if rare. Tiddlywinks (talk) 00:18, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

And yup, I found Castform in Haina Desert's sandstorm after 100+ successful calls.

It's also a pretty tough environment, though, what with the threat of sandstorm damage and Sandile's low-ish call rate and annoying moveset/Intimidate. Or Trapinch's Arena Trap, or Dugtrio's much lower call rate. These things could definitely made hours seem like hundreds of calls if you weren't keeping exact track. Tiddlywinks (talk) 06:33, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

I had reached a point where I thought out of luck couldn't explain it, that's why my theories became more and more obscure. I didn't count manually and obviously counting PP wouldn't do the job, but I had ~30 Gabite. Thank you for proving me wrong, it's some kind of relief.

Have you by chance also tested whether your Poliwhirl can call Psyduck? In other words, do you know whether each battle uses a fixed set of Pokémon that can be called as allies, or whether that depends on the actual species that calls for help? I seem to destined to miss the rain at Malie Garden.

Other than that, I think we have everything for weather-related SOS Battles then. (I am assuming Castform didn't change to sunny form, right?) I'm interested to see what bright idea you have to include that on location pages, and also whether you have an idea for here. I guess my ideas suck. Nescientist (talk) 17:16, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

30 Gabite would be pretty terrible luck, yeah... But yes, Poliwhirl can call Psyduck. (On a related subject, if you change day/night hours in the middle of a battle, allies are still called based on when you started the battle.) And Castform came in normal and stayed like that until, coincidentally, it then used Sunny Day. =P

And yeah, the weather slots should give us everything. Tiddlywinks (talk) 00:06, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

I have a Shiny Gabite, so I guess I'm fine. And I like your ideas. Nescientist (talk) 18:42, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Chaining SOS Battles

There appears to be perks for chaining an SOS Battle. I have gotten a Poliwag with 4 perfect IVs and with its Hidden Ability after chaining about 50 Pokémon. This probably should be researched more for other perks, like increased shiny chance. Adamws (talk) 01:18, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

According to various sources, chaining an SOS Battle can net you Pokémon with hidden abilities and a maximum of four perfect IVs. Can't test it myself, I have no idea how to do it. But I think it's about time this was added to the article but as well as that, I think the redirect for "chaining" should no longer lead to "Poké Radar" and instead go to a disambiguation page between this one and that one. Me, Hurray! (talk) 18:38, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

If someone finds more exact information, we should surely cover that (and maybe a bit more prominently). I was just trying to see Castform, so all I can do is hint at it rather carefully.

For chaining, I don't know if it's been mentioned officially for the Radar. If not, the disambig might also include fishing. Nescientist (talk) 18:44, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Adding to Routes

Should we add The Wether and SOS to pay end Rotue to show where they can find the Pokemon?--Jacob Kogan (talk) 02:00, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

I think we should wait until we get more definitive information about what weather brings those Pokémon into battle, and hopefully the rate they appear. --Voltdetector (talk) 04:40, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

It's from a guidebook, and also seen in the Pokédex. Please read the above section for why we're still holding off on Castform. For the rate, I'm not entirely sure it is even constant, but we should definitely include the more important (species, weather) information we already have. Nescientist (talk) 23:11, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Goomy in Lush Jungle

It's true about that, well only gets when it's raining in that place. --HoopsterJohn (talk) 02:03, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Indeed HoopsterJohn--Jacob Kogan (talk) 02:08, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

So, why didn't add in the Lust Jungle page? --HoopsterJohn (talk) 02:11, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Don't know why--Jacob Kogan (talk) 02:23, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Statused pokemon don't call for allies

Can someone confirm this? So far tested with Thunder Wave in diverse battles and after use the wild pokemon dont call for allies anymore. Could like to test with other status but im not that far in the game, so if someone can help testing.. -- .Rawr! (Talk) 14:53, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Underlevelled Pokémon

Should it be noted (maybe in a trivia section for example) that it is possible to obtain underlevelled Pokémon through SOS battles (and very easily at that)? It barely requires any effort to find a level 15 Gyarados or a level 30 Wailmer (or a level 10 Salamence, but you'd need a lot of patience for this one). In other games underlevelled Pokémon are usually restricted to a small amount of places, whereas now you can just get them at almost any fishing spot. Svenskig (talk) 15:36, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

I don't think it's needed. They have always been there (see Level#Underleveled Pokémon), and "easy to get" seems neither encyclopedical nor really relevant. Nescientist (talk) 23:11, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Breaking a chain

In reponse to this, I'll go ahead and share some of my thoughts/experience.

First: I have encountered a Metapod who called Caterpie and then accidentally fainted Metapod, and the calls continued.

But my thought was, this could be because both Caterpie and Metapod are in the encounter data; i.e., they have lists of allies if the game is looking up "Does this Pokemon have allies to call here?".

So, if we want to know if the chain really survives so long as someone in the same family remains active, Metapod/Caterpie aren't really the best way to check it. A number of the other listed SOS allies would work fine, though (particularly the baby Pokemon who often have good call rates), like fainting an Elekid after it calls Electabuzz.

Another interesting potential consequence of my hypothesized game logic above is, even if a Pokemon wouldn't normally have any allies it could call, if you're in a location with potential weather allies, would it be able to call those? (Say, a Trumbeak called by Oranguru/Passimian in Lush Jungle.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:53, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Just tested out the former situation at Wela Volcano Park, and found that Magmar can call more Magby. I tried to see whether it would also call more Magmar, but couldn't get it to do so before it ran out of PP (80 turns) and Struggled itself to death. I didn't keep an exact count, but I'm sure I got a lot more "Its help didn't appear!"s from Magmar than I've ever had from a non-SOS-exclusive Pokémon, as well as far more turns where it didn't even try to call for help than I usually have from a battle in which I've used an Adrenaline Orb. As a result, I have to wonder whether SOS-exclusive Pokémon are perhaps programmed to call for help less often and less successfully? Obviously this is something we can only probably get from datamining, but it's worth keeping in mind. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 20:26, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

I haven't really (consciously) thought about it that way, so Metapod was perhaps about the only bad guy I could've come up with. But I can say that one Gabite I was trying to get to call for help didn't do so (in ~5-10 turns, before it died off Take Down recoil), and the sandstorm was still ongoing. I'm going to try it again with a Ghost mon maybe (especially after what Pumpkinking said), cause it calling Castform then would really make so much sense for the above section.

And to Pumpkinking, SnorlaxMonster added that "(t)he likelihood of a wild Pokémon calling for help depends on its species", which would/could explain why Magmar does not call for help as often as Magby do. Also, I'm under the (vague!) impression that calls remain unanswered more often when the AI thinks you're behind or on the edge of losing, when your own HP are low (or something like it, and something else maybe); so maybe that Magmar was "too strong"??? Nescientist (talk) 22:56, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

This list purports to be call rates, but also note that it says it's not confirmed. I'm not sure specifically how it's unconfirmed though (i.e. whether this is data extracted from the game that is just assumed to be call rates, or whether it's entirely empirically derived). I haven't looked into the Pokémon that should be on there, but instead have are not listed (i.e. have call rate 0).--SnorlaxMonster 04:18, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Also, after battling it for a very long time, I'm fairly confident the second Wishiwashi you battle leading up to Lana's trial is guaranteed to call for help every turn. I never tried inflicting a status condition on it though, nor did I try KOing the original and checking whether this applies to the called allies too. --SnorlaxMonster 04:20, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

They apparently have the values datamined, but they only believe they're related to SOS Battles, and they certainly don't have a formula. I assume it is correct, as that would explain Magby vs. Magmar, and also things like Minior not calling for allies that I've heard of. Nescientist (talk) 11:44, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I successfully got a Trumbeak called by an Oranguru to call another Trumbeak. It looks like whether or not a Pokémon is in the same evolutionary family as the original caller is irrelevant, only whether or not its call rate is 0. It just so happens that Pokémon with a call rate of 0 are usually Pokémon whose species differs from the original caller. --SnorlaxMonster 12:41, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Redirects?

Can someone make "Calling for help" and "SOS" redirect here? I don't have permission to create pages, otherwise I'd do it myself. TheDoctorPotter (talk) 22:02, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Need to Add Specific Info about SOS Battle Mechanics

I was just wondering when this page would contain the specific details and numbers about the number of IV's and Shinies when chaining Pokemon using the SOS method. I found this information on the Bulba Handbook for this game, and was wondering when it would be added to the SOS Battle page.

Chain Lengths

The longer the chain, the more chance you have of finding a Pokémon that is shiny, has its hidden Ability, or has perfect IVs. After a chain of 255, the counter goes back to 0 again.

PERFECT IV'S: Chain length of 0 to 4: No guaranteed perfect IVs Chain length of 5 to 9: 1 guaranteed perfect IV Chain length of 10-19: 2 guaranteed perfect IVs Chain length of 20-29: 3 guaranteed perfect IVs Chain length of 30-255: 4 guaranteed perfect IVs

HIDDEN ABILITIES: Chain length of 0 to 9: 0% chance of Hidden Ability Chain length of 10 to 19: 5% chance of Hidden Ability Chain length of 20 to 29: 10% chance of Hidden Ability Chain length of 30 to 255: 15% chance of Hidden Ability

SHINY CHANCE A chain length of 70 to 255 gives you a 1/1024 chance of encountering a shiny (normally 1/4096). If you have obtained the Shiny Charm, the chance becomes 1/683 (normally 3/4096).

Breaking the Chain

The following actions will break a chain:

Fleeing the battle The caller fainting without an ally being present The caller fainting while the ally is a Pokémon with a call rate of 0 The caller calling a Pokémon that is not of the same family as the caller does not break the chain.

I don't know but I feel like it's important to add all this stuff to this page, but I wanted to ask someone for permission first, I guess, of where to put it instead of just copying and pasting it all on the page.--Rithvikkiran (talk) 22:16, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Other than the specific numerical data (which we should add, if it's verified correct), the vast majority of that information is already on the page. Read the prose more closely. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 22:25, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

All right, thanks.--Rithvikkiran (talk) 00:03, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Pokémon who don't call for help

Would it be useful to include a list of Pokémon with a call rate of 0 (as a chart maybe)? It would include Pokémon encountered exclusively through SOS Battles, legendary Pokémon, Ultra Beasts, guardian deities, and Island Scan Pokémon, as well as Exeggutor, Komala, Minior, and Wimpod. --Dirtytabs (talk) 22:35, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Right now, I believe it's not worth it. This very page already mentions that Legendary Pokémon, Ultra Beasts, guardian deities, and Island Scan Pokémon won't call for help. The others you mentioned (plus Butterfree) could be included here as well, maybe. (I don't know whether it would really be useful here, and I tend to believe that it's more useful as "N/A" at individual location pages anyway, which is what we already do.)

Apart from that, I think something like List of Pokémon by call rate would ultimately be more useful; you can find the (assumed) rates in the "Breaking a chain" section above. Right now, however, there's more than half of all species with a rate of zero (incl. all the ones not found in Alola), and listing a value of "3" or something isn't really helpful when we can't really make sense out of that (i.e., when we don't know, or don't mention, a call formula). Nescientist (talk) 18:37, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

I think a list of Pokémon that cannot call for help, but can appear in the wild, would be useful. Worth noting that "Pokémon encountered exclusively through SOS Battles" isn't entirely accurate, since for example Shelgon can call for help; it's only most SOS call-exclusives. No point listing Pokémon that cannot appear in the wild though. --SnorlaxMonster 02:37, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

I'm going to try adding a list of Pokémon that can't call for help. If I miss one, or put one in that shouldn't be there, just fix it. TheDoctorPotter (talk) 19:58, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

I added it. Check it out! TheDoctorPotter (talk) 21:21, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Should I order them by Alola Dex number or by National Dex number? I did Alola Dex, but if you guys want to change it to National, go ahead - just make sure you put them in the right order.