Talk:Evolution

Ummmm.... The bit about Eevees at the end is plain wrong. Things don't evolve due to their environment. It is merely that the creatures that have a favourable variation survive to produce offspring and pass on their genes, and so more things have the variation than don't. This is like junior high-level knowledge. DanJimi 10:25, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

at the list of non-evolving pokemon, you see the last pkmn is aerodactyl but next to it is a picture of an kabutops

Phione

I put Phione on the list of non evolving non legendaries, and it keeps getting removed. WHY???? It's not as though Phione is legendary. Missingno. Master 02:09, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Because in some people's minds, it is legendary. :/ Tina ^δ♫ 02:16, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

But it's not confirmed to be legendary. And IMO, the fact that one can recruit multiple Phione in MD2 PROVES conclusively that Phione is not a legendary (In the MD games, legendaries are strictly limited to one per game). -- Glitch and Official Pokémon. There is no real difference between the two. In my opinion, the two should be considered equal!-- quoted by Missingno. Master 15:20, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Please see your talk page, Missigno.Master. --Theryguy512 15:37, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

If it isn't a legendary, why is it banned from the battle tower? It's definitely not because of it's battle prowess. No. It's because it's normally unavailable in normal play. You still need access to Manaphy to get them.

It's no legendary, but it's still an event Pokémon in a sense. - PDL

The only Pokémon banned from the Battle Tower are legendary. Phione is legendary, albeit the crappiest of them. Plus, Missingno Master, you might wanna do something OTHER than just adding Phione in there, such as, oh, changing the count to 43 and making it so the table isn't f'd up.

Plus, here's the thing: how much of a chance does Phione have of getting evolutionary relatives? ZERO! It has Manaphy. The other 42 have at least a chance of that.

Jeez, I understand being the devil's advocate, but Phione just isn't worth it. It sucks in battle, sure, but so do many other legendaries. TTEchidna^G_SDS! 08:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Devil's advocate? I wasn't suggesting that Phione should be listed >_>. However, I suppose I wasn't making myself clear enough. - PDL

No, the Pokémon banned from the Battle Tower are in the Uber tier. Note that Cresselia isn't banned, it's in the OU tier as well. Is it legendary? Hell yeah. (Yet it can compete in Uber if it really wants to..) Tina ^δ♫ 23:06, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

See, that's where fan definitions suck. Everything banned from the BT is legendary, the only exceptions to this are the normal legendary trios of each region (meaning, of course, that GKR and DPG aren't normal trios. They're mascot trios, though Giratina's not a mascot... but hey, it's a better name than other stuff), the Lati duo, Cressy, and Heatran. TTEchidna^G_SDS! 23:12, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Ahem. Phione is now officially not a legendary. 1 I take it this means I was justified in putting it back in the non-evolving non-legendary box thingy? -- Glitch Pokémon. Official Pokémon. There is no real difference between the two. In my opinion, the two should be considered equal!-- quoted by Missingno. Master 11:45, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Even if we assume that Phione is not legendary, which is unsubtantiated unless claimed or alluded to by the designers (that is, not any low-rank employee of an affiliated company), it still has no place on the list. The reason for this is that the list shows all Pokémon with some chance to evolve in later installments of the game. It has been observed, and in fact referenced in the Diamond and Pearl games, that legendaries need not evolve because they have reached their maximum potential as-is; therefore, there is no chance for any of the legendaries to evolve.

It so happens that regardless of whether Phione is classified as legendary or not, there is no reason to believe that it will ever evolve. If it were to evolve, it would evolve into Manaphy, as any other scenario would be cumbersome (a legendary spawning a species not from its own family). However, the reason behind the fact that Phione does not evolve into Manaphy, which is that Manaphy is unique, will continue to hold beyond the current generation. -Unown Lord 14:07, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Missingno. Master, you do realize that link confirms that Phione is a Legendary, right? Gligar 15:27, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

This conversation is from six months ago. Pokémon.com did list Phione as a non-legendary for a time, then changed it to a legendary status. ~$aturn¥oshi ^{THE VOICES} 15:41, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Anime Evolution

In regards to the relation between the evolution in the anime than in the games. Wouldn't The anime be more reasonably sound than the games. Because I doubt that if Pokemon were real that most of these evolutions would occur exactly as in the games. The way I see it, the only reason why a certain Pokemon evolves the way it does in the game (with the exception of evolutionary stones and such) is to make it difficult for the player and it would be easier for a Pokemon Game developer if they limited it to one specific set of circumstances.

Granted there are a few exceptions: Such as evolutionary stones, and specific locations for a Pokemon to evolve, and perhaps it knowing a certain move. Though with Evolutionary stones, in an episode it said that the wind was able to carry evolutionary stones, so couldn't certain Pokemon evolve that way when it appears it just evolves naturally or mysteriously?

As for leveling up and trading, those just seem to make it more difficult for a trainer of the games to obtain Pokemon, that could easily be gotten by easier methods. --Dman dustin 13:51, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

new to community, first post

I'd like to add my finding in, I thought evolution however I'm not really sure how to add it in, and where it would go. I was trying to figure out if a pokémon whose evolution has been delayed would be as strong as the same pokémon of the same level and a "natural" evolution so what I did is I took a Pidgey and used rare candies to evolve it to 25 not allowing it to evolve until 27 the stats were as follows 71HP 39ATK 38DFNS 32SPATK 35SPDFNS 42Spd I then reset the game and gave the same pidgey rare candies this time allowing it the "natural" evolution at level 18 when it got to level 25 the stats were as follows 71HP 39ATK 38DFNS 32SPATK 35SPDFNS 42Spd

so we can infer that the level the pokémon evolves at does not affect the stats. If anyone wants to suggest a heading to put this in, or even shorten it up, by all means

About the comment at the page bottom

EVOLUTION IS NOT ABOUT CELL STRUCTURE. Eevee's evolution isn't akin AT ALL to real evolution. Evolution is triggered by Natural Selection, therefore, a single species cannot evolve. Only a population can. Just thought to make a side note. JirachiWishmaker0802 09:13, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree, I'm a Biology student, evolution is about animals with favourable adaptations being statistically more likely to survive and so over many generations the favourable adaptations are spread throughout a population. Eevee's evolution is no way close enough to real evolution to get a mention, I will remove the sentence now... Prof. Pine 19:05, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

De-volution

Umm... Is it worth metioning in the article that only mentioned instances of "de-volution" is in Slowbro's pokedex entries. (When it loses its shellder) --Hyurnat4 21:28, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

In the Pocket Monsters manga, It is also possible to De-volve as Isamu Akai's Clefairy evolved into a clefable and then back. Should this be added into the article as a subcategory, or as trivia? --Proctor 21:50, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Gender-related evolutions

It's worth noting that some evolutions occur (or don't occur) if a pokemon's a certain gender.

• Combee only evolves if it's female
• Kirlia will only evolve into a Gallade if it's male
• and Snorunt into Frosslass when female.

I thought this would be in the article, but Combee wasn't mentioned at all. LordHeinz 00:37, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

All fixed I hope. —darklordtrom 00:54, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Generation IV: Vulpix and Growlithe

Beginning with Generation IV, it is now possible to get a Level 1 Ninetales/Arcanine by hatching a Vulpix/Growlithe Egg received from breeding and evolving the newly hatched Vulpix/Growlithe with a Fire Stone, making Vulpix and Growlithe the first Pokémon that can evolve to their final stage of evolution at the lowest level ever. Unfortunately, the greatest trade-off of such an extremely premature evolution can be a poor move set which is very severe for Ninetales since it doesn't have any moves that it can learn by leveling up. --Arima 09:47, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

This severe trade-off, however, can be alleviated to some degree through Move Tutoring and the use of TM/HMs. Therefore, it is merely a matter of choice between high stats and a reliable move set for either Pokémon. --Arima 10:06, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

They aren't the first to do this. I can't remember for sure off the top of my head, but so can Togepi, Budew, and... yeah, it's early right now. Sorry. The Dark Fiddler - You enter a poorly lit room... 10:00, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Togepi and Budew do need to level up to evolve; however, it's true that many Pokémon can now evolve at Level 1. Staryu, Scyther, Onix, Porygon AND Porygon 2... basically any Pokémon which can both hatch from an egg and evolve without leveling up. So no, this isn't too notable. Although, come to think of it, perhaps Porygon ought to be mentioned, seeing as it's the only one to be able to evolve twice without leveling up. --AndyPKMN 11:29, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It's noted on Porygon-Z's and Roserade's pages that they are the only two Fully evolved three-stage Pokémon which can be legitimately obtained at level 1, and I think it might be noted on some of the others' pages that they can be legitimately obtained at level 1. Question is though, is it worth mentioning it here? Because it could be slightly irrelevant, as the ability to obtain them at level 1 isn't that much related to evolution. Werdnae (talk) 18:50, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Budew can't evolve at level 1 though, which is why Porygon's family is more notable. But, if we were to go with "fully evolved" instead of Porygon's family being able to evolve twice at level 1, then we could throw Budew's family in there. But I'm more in favor of Porygon only. R.A. Hunter Blade 20:34, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Something like "Porygon/Porygon2/Porygon-Z is the only Pokémon that can evolve twice and still be at level 1." might fit nicely. —darklordtrom 20:45, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I've reevaluated the relevance and importance of this information and came to the conclusion that it is valuable to players who want to go for the highest possible Stats for those particular Pokémon.--Arima 03:38, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

It's possible to skip Budew altogether. The only way to get it through breeding is through having one parent hold a rose incense. - Gold Dialga

A Generation V image can't be uploaded.

I made an image which is about Snivy's evolution, but it can't be uploaded. It says "Error creating thumbnail:". Is it too big? At first it was 2MB, but now it is 830KB but still can't be uploaded. What should I do? I'm sorry for my poor English.--Togekiss of Moon 12:13, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Trivia

Each generation introduces a new method of evolution. Generation I introduces level-up, trading, and evolutionary stones. Generation II introduces level-up with high happiness and trading while holding an item. Generation III introduces level-up with high beauty condition. Generation IV introduces level-up while knowing a certain move, level-up while holding a certain item, and level-up in a certain location. Generation V introduces trading for a specific Pokémon. Should I add this to the trivia? Tk3141 22:02, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Evolution by level at level 100.

As far as I know, an evolution by level is triggered by an actual level-up sequence, thus a level 100 unevolved pokemon can't evolve by level. I couldn't find a mention of this in the article. Is it accurate, and should it be either denied or confirmed by the article? PLA 10:00, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, a level 100 Pokémon that evolves through level-up can't evolve. I don't think that this is important enough to mention though... but that's just my opinion. Dannyjenn 02:53, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

It's implied in the Methods of evolution article, where it is stated that a Pokémon evolves due to three triggers, when being a level up. Obviously a Lv. 100 Pokémon cannot level up, so can't evolve if leveling up is their trigger. But I wouldn't know where to put it in this article. If the trigger is an evolutionary stone or a trade, then it still can. Samjohn95 23:35, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Real-world evolution

"the existence of "extinct" Pokémon backs this up"

That's completely wrong. A species becoming extinct has nothing to do with evolution... it only has to do with evolving in the case that one species no longer exists because it became another species (like a mammoth evolving into an elephant). If it's just gone then that means nothing... dinosaurs are extinct and they didn't evolve into anything. Likewise, there's no evidence that the "extinct" Pokémon evolved into something else. They most likely just died out completely unchanged. Dannyjenn 03:18, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Alternate forms of evolution

In Pokemon Snap, a Charmeleon evolves into Charizard if knocked into a vat of lava, and a Magikarp evolves into Gyarados if knocked into a waterfall. I believe these should be added. Jdrawer (talk) 02:06, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Those aren't really conditions. Ash's Charmeleon evolved just because it was angry at an Aerodactyl and wanted to beat it in a fight. Magikarp seem to be able to evolve whenever they feel threatened as well, such as when James kicked his into the ocean in frustration. Evolution conditions aren't limited to how they work in the main games. R.A. Hunter Blade 05:17, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Halted Evolution - Bug? Safeguard?

So I was just playing through LeafGreen here, having a Beldum as my starter *cough*, when I got it to level 20 in Mt. Moon. It stopped evolving, and the only message was "?". Was this maybe because I didn't have the National Pokédex yet? --GuyPerfect (talk) 01:56, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

In FRLG, to stop you from getting Pokémon like Golbat Crobat and Blissey prior to getting the National Pokédex, any Pokémon evolving into a non-Kanto Pokémon will not evolve if you don't have the National Pokédex. --SnorlaxMonster 02:04, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Conquest: Warrior Transformation

In Pokémon Conquest, Warrior Transformation is noted as being similar to Pokémon evolution. Does that deserve its own article, or should we make a section here? Giratina's Embodiment - Please don't hurt us... 05:34, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Mega Evolution

I know it's more of a form change, but I was just wondering how we are handling Mega Evolution. I'm assuming it will get its own page, or at least own section of a page on either here or the form page. I'd assume we should have a list of all Pokemon with Mega Evolution's. If someone's already working on this, I apologize, but I did a search and couldn't find anything.CoolDudeAl (talk) 06:22, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I think the admins are holding off on making any big decisions about it until we get the English-language information on it, which is expected in a few days. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 07:07, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Adding

I wanted to add one phrase into in other languages section, but it seems the page is locked and I can't edit a thing. Can somebody help me to add "perkembangan" into the section that I mentioned just now?? Thanks! Esther Siaw (talk) 13:52, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Menu sprites for Kalos Pokémon

Don't forget to add the menu sprites for the Pokémon introduced in Generation VI, that's because we're up to this generation. Cinday123 (talk) 06:28, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Goodra

Should the method by which Sliggoo evolves into Goodra be mentioned as unique in the Methods section, or does that sort of count as a location-based evolution? -- EnosShayrem_talk 06:08, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

This method is unique, you level up Sliggoo to level 50 and if it's raining in the overworld, it will evolve into Goodra. Cinday123 (Talk) 07:05, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I understand the evolution method, what I was wondering is if it would be categorized as, technically, a location-based evolution since there's only overworld rain in certain areas. I'm just going to add it and it'll be removed if someone important doesn't like it there. -- EnosShayrem_talk 08:06, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Shedinja and Poké Ball in Generation VI

In Generation VI, does Nincada require a Poké Ball in its bag and a spare spot in its party to evolve into Ninjask and Shedinja begins to appear in party? Cinday123 (Talk) 00:23, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Consistency

There's little to no consistency among the advantages of branched evolutions. I think one method, such as listing relevant stats or just relevant stat increases, should be used, rather than numerous methods. --Wynd Fox 00:48, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Semi-Protection

Will any staff member semi-protect this page to prevent new users from editing it. --Cinday123 (Talk) 22:31, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Evolution and pokémon types

Should i add that that eevee is the only pokémon to completely change types upon evolution (meaning that eevee's type is different from any of the current eevee evolutions), or am I forgetting any other pokémon? Prussiadoge 21:49, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Gloom.--ForceFire 03:33, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Gloom is Grass/Poison but Bellossom is pure Grass; it's not a "complete" type-change. Starscream (talk) 20:56, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, my mistake. I meant Swablu, who goes from Normal/Fairy to Dragon/Fairy. Not sure why I mentioned Gloom.--ForceFire 03:47, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Dang it, Normal/Flying to Dragon/Flying. Also, Onix goes from Rock/Ground to Steel/Ground.--ForceFire 03:54, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Would it be worthwhile to create a page that lists pokemon that gain/ lose/ change types upon evolution? I searched and couldn't find one that already existed. There's probably enough pokemon amongst those three possibilities that it would be valuable, I think. -Sandrew26 (talk) 16:05, 6 March 2021 (UTC)g

I thought it might be relevant so I made one [1]. Maybe we should make a page about type changing in general?--Rocket Grunt 18:55, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

For the future, let's try not to revive these super old threads.

Apart from that, I can't say I am in support of an entire article dedicated to that. There's already a note on the page about Pokemon sometimes changing types-- I think listing every Pokemon that does so would be a bit much. That's just my opinion though... I'd like to hear others' input. --celadonk (talk) 17:08, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

In other generations

I managed to make a new "in other generations" section. I don't know, but it could be better than it is here. So maybe we have to use it? It is on the page User:Lokki/Evolution New Template. Should we use it? Because here there isn't any gen.III image. Lokki (talk) 09:23, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Just wondering...

I accidentally stopped my Litten from evolving :( Is it possible for it to evolve into Torracat and then into Incineroar afterwards? - unsigned comment from Valehd (talk • contribs)

Yep. That's what "starting at level x" means. --Raltseye prata med mej 01:30, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Rockruff & Lycanroc

Shouldn't Rockruff and day and night Lycanroc be listed as a branch evolution? They are different Pokemon, with different designs and stats. Lunala and Solgaleo are listed as branched evolutions and both day and night Lycanroc evolve for the same reasons they do (being from the version Pokemon Sun or Pokemon Moon).--Sylveon (talk) 10:20, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Both Lycanroc are forms of the same Pokemon, as indicated by their having the same Pokedex number. Solgaleo and Lunala have different Pokedex numbers. On the other hand, we list all the Wormadam forms separately, so... maybe? It's a weird situation. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 16:42, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Burmy also evolves into Mothim, so it's not strictly comparable to Rockruff anyway. Rockruff is weird, yes, but that's entirely on its own "merits". Tiddlywinks (talk) 16:46, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Page for moves learned through evolution

Is there a page listing Pokémon that learn moves when evolving? Caterpie automatically learns Harden regardless of when it evolved, and I wanted to see a list of other examples. Pallukun (talk) 19:49, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Here: [2]. I think Bulbapedia missed to make that kind of list.--Rocket Grunt (Report To Me) 20:53, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. Should we look into creating a page of this on Bulbapedia? Pallukun (talk) 18:18, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

I agree.--Rocket Grunt (Report To Me) 19:20, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

Caterpie is no longer a Caterpie when it evolves... so it's not Caterpie that's learning Harden when it evolves...--ForceFire 07:01, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Calm down kid. Everyone knows what he meant. You don't have to nitpick tiny details especially when they aren't much relevant to the topic.--Rocket Grunt (Report To Me) 10:40, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Please don't make a massive change without staff approval. I don't think that information would go on this article. Each of the individual Pokemon articles already lists the move it can learn once it evolves in their moveset templates. That's where it goes and it already is.--ForceFire 12:54, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

So... Can I add it?--Rocket Grunt (Report To Me) 13:00, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

(resetting indent)I absolutely agree that this is relevant information to warrant a page. Honestly, I'm surprised that there wasn't a page for this before. --celadonk (talk) 21:41, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

[3] - unsigned comment from Team Rocket Grunt (talk • contribs)

I agree, I think we should have that page. The one linked by Rocket Grunt above looks good to me. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 09:54, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Two methods of evolution

Aren't Alolan Rattata and Meowth also having two kinds of evolution? They evolve differently in SMUSUM and LGPE.--Rocket Grunt (Report To Me) 10:58, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

Prof. Elm's research

Which game(s) include(s) the information from Professor Elm (about the percentage of Pokḿon connected to at least one other through Evolution)? It would be good to explain why that figure doesn't match the automatically computed one included in the following sentence of the introduction. –Butterfreeism (talk) 02:17, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Confusing information

Usually, I'd just edit the page myself, but I'm not really sure how to add up the percentages. At the top of the page, it states that Professor Elm's research (in which it's actually Rowan's not Elm's last i checked) states that 90% of all Pokemon are connected through Evolution, but the actual number is 81%, but the trivia section says 90% and 84%. Assuming 81 refers to all Pokemon that are not Legendary or Mythical, this is where the confusing information begins as it says 84 in the trivia. Is the 81 only referring to Pokémon as of Generation 4? I should make note that some dialogue in BDSP had altered text to DP, in reference to future titles that Sinnoh's Legendary Pokemon cannot evolve (not all Legendary Pokemon like in gen 4), meaning the 90% calculation stated earlier in the game is still accurate to some degree. TrainerSplash (talk) 22:44, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

If you edit the page you'll see how they are calculated. The trivias are outdated because they don't use wiki functions. I'm also pretty sure the "90%" was Rowan's research not Elm's.--Rocket Grunt 23:02, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Pokémon Masters and Pokémon UNITE

Hi, I've been reading Bulbapedia for years, but I just created this account to point out there's no information about evolution in Pokémon Masters / Pokémon Masters EX in the spin-off section of this article. I'd do it myself but I don't have the eloquence nor the knowledge about writing that kind of content.

There's also the evolution that occurs in Pokémon UNITE. - unsigned comment from Omor (talk • contribs)

Porygon trivia out of date

Porygon isn't the only Pokémon that can evolve twice while remaining at level 1. Firstly, since it is possible to find level 1 Pokémon in Go, and Go doesn't require leveling up for any evolutions, any Pokémon found at level 1 in Go that can evolve twice can be evolved twice without leveling up. Of course, Go is a spin-off so it's not as interesting.

But even if we restrict ourselves to the main series, Porygon is still not alone. Because of the changes to evolution mechanics made in Legends Arceus, it is possible for a level 1 Pichu, Cleffa, Happiny, Togepi, and Budew to evolve twice without leveling up. Each of them evolve once by friendship and once via an evolutionary item (with Happiny being in the opposite order, but that doesn't affect anything).

And, yes, it is possible to gain friendship without gaining experience (and thus leveling up) in Legends Arceus. It's not very well documented, but after experimenting, I was able to confirm that using Potions to heal an injured Pokémon raises their friendship. Because of this, it is possible (though very tedious) to get the friendship up high enough to evolve without gaining XP, meaning friendship evolutions while remaining at level 1 are possible. I confirmed this myself with a level 1 Togepi, now a level 1 Togekiss, still with 0 experience points.--Gou (talk) 04:47, 14 June 2022 (UTC)