Talk:Type

The Bird & ??? types

I added Bird and ??? type to the template. Although they are not really conventional types. I do think they should be included, maybe you should seperate them a little? I really can't get my head round metawiki's silly table formatting code. - Ferret 21:26, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Disagree with including Bird, but the ??? I can concur with. Evkl 21:28, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Bird should probably be linked to in the Glitch article then. Can you take it out of the template? I'ld only screw it up. o_o - Ferret 21:31, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I'm trying, and...well, screwing it up. XD

I think that the Bird type needs to come out of the table and for the ??? to go under the other special types so that the table is symmetrical. It's not really neccessary to make explicit reference to the Bird type in the table if its a type that isn't meant to appear in normal gameplay. Also, the ??? page doesn't exist and should it include the Missingno.s in RSE where they are repesented by the ? enclosed by a circle?

That's weird I had made the ??? page, look in my contributions. Looks like metaiwki doesn't like the question marks... - Ferret 08:40, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

k then what does "The (type) type is one of the seventeen elemental types." need to be changed to? Nineteen, eighteen, or leave it? --Jshadias 10:11, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Methinks they need to be separated from the main 17 and listed separately... -- 刘 (劉) 振霖 10:33, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Well, the BIRD type has been removed - it only needs to be mentioned in maybe one of the game mechanics pages or in a missingno. article.

I think that the ??? isn't a type to itself - its more a lack of a type. So really ??? shouldn't be classed as a type because it has no defining features like pokemon to represent it, no type weaknesses and resistances and the Curse changes effect with types and does no damage at all.

Curse does indirect damage when used by Ghost-types. Evkl 01:46, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Exactly, indirect damage. ??? has no effect other than display. Curse could be grass type and still do the exact same thing. --Jshadias 01:14, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This is minor, but shouldn't the "normal" elements be listed as "physical" elements? Is not that the generally accepted term for the opposite of the special elements?--ANinyMouse 06:09, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The ??? type DOES have a Pokémon to represent it.*cough*Arceus*cough*--Frostagin 18:51, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Several people here have expressed (to greater or lesser degrees) that they think there should only be said to be a total of 17 types as they believe the ???-type isn't really a type. However, this wiki should really be based more on the fact (as opposed to people's beliefs) and the fact is ??? appears in the type category for pokémon eggs in gen III. It also has a move and Arceus can technically turn into it. Does that not make it a type? What else does it really need?

Therefore, based on all the evidence before us I reckon the page should state there are 18 types to include ???. Does anyone have any problems with that??? Wikid 00:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Meh, that was from practically a year ago, and it is one of my stupidest edits. And also, to future readers, please don't edit this conversation again, because bumps are bad.if a conversation is more than a month old, then adding would be a bump.Or so I've found through the site.Frostagin 01:46, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

From the Pokemon Black and White page, "The ??? type has been removed, with Curse becoming a Ghost-type move," so shouldn't this be removed from the elemental types or put somewhere else like "Discontinued Type"? --ShawnFrost 04:07, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

In Pokémon XD, there is one damage dealing ???-type move (Weather Ball during a shadow sky), so it should still be a type. EnosShayrem 04:34, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Disambig?

Should this be moved to Elemental types (game), so that the main page can be converted into a disambig for the TCG one? --TTEchidna 21:26, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Even if you do that, it'd still be confusing because they're both games, persey . . . aren't types more often refered to as "Energy Types" in the TCG anyways? --Zeta 21:30, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, they are. --Paperfairy ☆ ・ 23:00, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Then should Elemental types (TCG) move to Energy types (TCG)? --TTEchidna 00:17, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd say... just "Type (TCG)" seems good enough. That's all it's actually called, anyway. Well, that and "Color." I'd just go with "Type (TCG)." -Happy Mask Man 01:18, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, most just call the GB types types... --TTEchidna 23:51, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Added a little known fact

Ah yes, it appears this fact I added is not very widely known, so I figured I'd post a little comment to let everyone know I'm not making this up. ^__^

I was randomly paging through my Pokemon Gold/Silver Player's Guide: the official one released by Nintendo, it has this really cool drawing of Lugia and Ho-oh on the cover and- I digress. Anyway, on the last page it features the type chart, with next to it some explanation about attack damage multipliers. Among the obvious ones about effectiveness of the types, it also mentioned "Damage x 1.5 when the attack type is the same type as the Pokemon that's using it".

Since this is the official guide, I do assume this is indeed a confirmed fact for the Gold and Silver series; it'll likely also work in Crystal. I proceeded to test said finding in Ruby and Fire Red and found that it applied there too. For reference, in Ruby I used the example stated in the paragraph I added with the Aron. In Fire Red I used an Ekans with the Poison Sting and Wrap attacks.

Still requiring confirmation: Japanese versions of the games Original Red/Blue series New Diamond and Pearl editions Spinoffs such as Mystery Dungeon

I'll leave that spot of research to the real Pokémaniacs. (read: I'll leave checking this to the ones who DO own and/or can afford said games. ^__^;; )

--Democalypse 18:37, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Items such as Metal Coat and Charcoal now boost moves of their designated type by 20%, an increase from the previous 10%. --ANinyMouse 13:51, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

That Damage x 1.5 thing is known among the fandom as STAB, Same-Type Attack Bonus. If it wasn't in there already... I dunno why not.

And the Hold Item boost thing's now 20%? Is that as of DP? --TTEchidna 17:13, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I remembered that term for it just now, thanks for editing it into the text. ^__^ Haven't come across it a lot though; because of that I was mistaken into thinking it was a less known feature. =S My apologies for the sillyness. ^^;

--Democalypse 23:55, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Nah, it's cool. --TTEchidna 23:20, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, as of D/P the type-specific items boost 20% instead of 10%. Makes them somewhat worthwhile on heavey hitters. --ANinyMouse 14:19, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Singular over plural?

We do it with Plate and others, why's this still plural? TTEchidna 09:00, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Year-and-a-half-old bump. Any reason not to move it? --((Marton imos)) 23:07, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

A possible idea for dual types

Instead of making seperate lists for "Primary (type)-type Pokémon" and "Secondary (type)-type Pokémon", how about we have just one list? For example, with Normal, it'd be like this:

#	Sprite	Name	Types
016		Pidgey	Normal	Flying
017		Pidgeotto	Normal	Flying
018		Pidgeot	Normal	Flying
021		Spearow	Normal	Flying
022		Fearow	Normal	Flying
083		Farfetch'd	Normal	Flying
084		Doduo	Normal	Flying
085		Dodrio	Normal	Flying
163		Hoothoot	Normal	Flying
164		Noctowl	Normal	Flying
176		Togetic	Normal	Flying
203		Girafarig	Normal	Psychic
276		Taillow	Normal	Flying
277		Swellow	Normal	Flying
333		Swablu	Normal	Flying
396		Starly	Normal	Flying
397		Staravia	Normal	Flying
398		Staraptor	Normal	Flying
400		Bibarel	Normal	Water
441		Chatot	Normal	Flying
468		Togekiss	Normal	Flying

Currently, it's like this:

Primary Normal-type Pokémon

#	Sprite	Name	Types
016		Pidgey	Normal	Flying
017		Pidgeotto	Normal	Flying
018		Pidgeot	Normal	Flying
021		Spearow	Normal	Flying
022		Fearow	Normal	Flying
083		Farfetch'd	Normal	Flying
084		Doduo	Normal	Flying
085		Dodrio	Normal	Flying
163		Hoothoot	Normal	Flying
164		Noctowl	Normal	Flying
176		Togetic	Normal	Flying
203		Girafarig	Normal	Psychic
276		Taillow	Normal	Flying
277		Swellow	Normal	Flying
333		Swablu	Normal	Flying
396		Starly	Normal	Flying
397		Staravia	Normal	Flying
398		Staraptor	Normal	Flying
400		Bibarel	Normal	Water
441		Chatot	Normal	Flying
468		Togekiss	Normal	Flying

Secondary Normal-type Pokémon

None.

We could also adjust it for the types that do have secondary Pokémon of that type. For example, it'd be like this for Fighting:

#	Sprite	Name	Types
062		Poliwrath	Water	Fighting
214		Heracross	Bug	Fighting
256		Combusken	Fire	Fighting
257		Blaziken	Fire	Fighting
286		Breloom	Grass	Fighting
307		Meditite	Fighting	Psychic
308		Medicham	Fighting	Psychic
391		Monferno	Fire	Fighting
392		Infernape	Fire	Fighting
448		Lucario	Fighting	Steel
453		Croagunk	Poison	Fighting
454		Toxicroak	Poison	Fighting
475		Gallade	Psychic	Fighting

Currently, it's like this:

Primary Fighting-type Pokémon

#		Name	Type 1	Type 2
307		Meditite	Fighting	Psychic
308		Medicham	Fighting	Psychic
448		Lucario	Fighting	Steel

Secondary Fighting-type Pokémon

#		Name	Type 1	Type 2
062		Poliwrath	Water	Fighting
214		Heracross	Bug	Fighting
256		Combusken	Fire	Fighting
257		Blaziken	Fire	Fighting
286		Breloom	Grass	Fighting
391		Monferno	Fire	Fighting
392		Infernape	Fire	Fighting
453		Croagunk	Poison	Fighting
454		Toxicroak	Poison	Fighting
475		Gallade	Psychic	Fighting

I think my version is much better, because it saves us the time of making 2 lists for dual types, while still allowing people to see the primaries and secondaries. Discuss. ^Chocolate 22:47, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

If there are no oppositions by tomorrow, I'll apply this new format to the type pages. ^Chocolate 01:25, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

See, you say this'll "save us the time of making two tables," but the tables are made. Doing this will only take more time.

At any rate, I can't see any real advantage to doing it... why do you think it's a good idea? --((Marton imos)) 01:28, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Because it saves the reader the time of looking at two tables for dual types. We can easily fit all the information into one. ^Chocolate 01:31, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. And also saves time for adding new Pokémon for the next Gen. And unless there's any actual difference between being Primary- and Secondary-typed, I vote for merging. Heck, I would gladly do that! =D -- Professional Mole (Talk here) 22:47, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Stat averages

I was thinking we should list the stat averages of not only all Pokémon of the type, but also all fully evolved Pokémon of the type. Does anyone else think we should do this?- unsigned comment from Giga Hand (talk • contribs)

Actually, that's a good idea. Care to calculate this? TTEchidna 08:42, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Secondary/Primary

I think it deserves its own section: is there any actual difference, game-wise, if the Pokémon is primary-typed or secondary-typed? I fail to see any... -- Professional Mole (Talk here) 22:48, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

We at Poképédia are actually discussing on that matter on the IRC-chan : what's the big difference between Lapras being Water-Ice and Spheal being Ice-Water ? Did Game Freak put the types "randomly" (wich I doubt, as we could almost rename these guys "Stats-Freaks" considering their evergrowing work on the series...) ? If anyone could bring some answer to that deep mystery, it would greatly be appreciated --InvocK 23:18, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

The order matters for the data, as in, it's wrong to call Lapras an Ice/Water Pokémon, but there's no difference in STAB or weaknesses as far as I've seen. TTEchidna 02:28, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

2 things

1.) This page is starting to look like a project's talk page. Would it be a bad idea to make a Bulbapedia project on the elemental types?

2.) Do we have pages for each type that list all the moves of that type. If we don't, it would be a good idea to start that.

-- Landfish⁷ 16:17, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Nvm about #2. He he -- Landfish⁷ 21:13, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it would be. There are 17 articles to cover, not including the glitch articles which are covered by GlitchDex anyway. There is no need for a project with such small a scope. —darklordtrom 21:33, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Non-damaging moves

Is it REALLY necessary to have a cat that states it's Status? I mean, they're all the same... ^ht14 03:53, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Do you mean this? We have this and this, so it makes sense to have one for status moves. —darklordtrom 08:32, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh, sorry. I didn't mean category. I mean column. Under the Status section of a move type such as this under the non-damaging moves section, there is a list of moves that have the status category. Isn't that implied that these moves are of the Status category? ^ht14 02:48, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Hrm. Yeah, it would be. I like having them separated; it makes searching easier. I wouldn't be opposed to mashing them together, though, or perhaps doing three subsections for each category. —darklordtrom 08:48, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Index numbers

What are the index numbers for the types?--Stuart P. Bentley 19:03, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

In the order they are on the template, as far as I know. Go down the first column, the down the second. Don't count ???, I think that's last. TTEchidna 04:29, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

All the Combinations

This is mostly for reference in this talk page, and doesn't directly assist the actual page, but it is important information nevertheless.

Eventually we are going to get close to having every type combination covered. So, here's some information.

With the current amount types, there is a total of 272 + 17 different type combinations (counting Ground/Dragon Flygon and Dragon/Ground Garchomp as separate). If we are to ignore these duplications, there is only 136 + 17.

I won't list them all here (for sake of space!) but I think this is important. Do we have a page with all the possible type combinations yet?

BTW - The math used for this kind of thing is called a permutation. -- ^Pokémaniac_John (talk) 21:59, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I like this, so I added it to the page. —darklordtrom 22:13, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Origin of type match-ups

"Why are Bug-type moves super-effective towards Psychic-types?" "Why is it that Steel-type moves don't do as much against Water-types?"

I'm sure many, many people wonder this. As a Wikia, it's our job to educate the public, so I think that each type-page should have its section of why its match-ups are what it is. I'd imagine it'd work nicely being set up like this in the Grass-type page:

Type Match-up Origins

Offensive

Super-effective

• Plants often spread their root system throughout the ground.
• In some cases, weeds will be able to grow through the thin layers of concrete or stones, despite their density. Moss is also commonly found on rocks, completely covering them up.
• Grass is known to absorb large amounts of rainwater and manage to stay healthy. To add, water is actually needed in the process of photosynthesis, and some plants can even live underwater.

Not very effective

• Very few plants manage to prey on insects or hinder the mobility of bugs, due to their habits of eating plants.
• Certain reptilian animals aren't at disadvantages when in their respective plant-filled environments.
  • Dragon-types are often considered to be reptilian in nature.
• Since plants create oxygen, flames are only stronger when around grassy and forest areas.
• Aside from several poisonous plants, no known type of plant can actually hurt birds. To add, birds often make nests inside of trees or on their branches.
  • Birds are usually associated with Flying-types.
• Trees cannot be planted too close to eachother, or else their roots will absorb too much of the liquid in the ground, and therefore wilt.
  • Explanation of why Grass-type moves are not very effective towards Grass-types.
• Plant-life not not often found in noxious environments.
• Regardless of the strength of the plant, roots cannot penetrate plates of steel.

Defensive

Resistances

• Wood is known to be nonconducting to electricity.
• Plants cannot move on their own, and therefore cannot attack other plants.
  • Explanation as to why Grass-types resist Grass-type attacks.
• Regardless if the ground is wet or dry, or hard or soft, plant-life can always grow if in the right climate conditions.
• Rain, if not acidic and in average amounts, cannot kill fields of grass.

Weaknesses

• Insects often eat leaves and other plants in their diets.
• Fire is stronger when provided with oxygen, which is exactly what flowers provide.
• Birds, such as crows, will often attack farm crops for food, often destroying said crops.
• Cold environments are often unsuitable for plants to grow. Flowers will wilt and trees will lose their leaves in Winter.
• Pesticides, weed-killers, and other toxins, will poison and kill plants if not used in a proper manner.

We aren't a Wikia. 梅子^❀_✿ 03:02, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, even then, the Bublapedia name suggests the same thing, though. Frushil! 03:05, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't really get what you're trying to say. Anyway, it's all speculation, so no, that is not getting added to any articles. 梅子^❀_✿ 03:07, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

One can just as easily say that the origin and name origin sections of Pokemon articles are speculation as well. There is reason behind many of the type match ups, so it should be added, even if it's just to cover a few of the match-up reasonings.

Of course, you having more authority than me, I accept your decision knowing that my opinion doesn't make much of a difference anyway. Frushil! 03:33, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Difference between Primary and Secondary types

I'm not 100% sure about what I'm about to say because I haven't confirmed it with the whole Pokémon list, but I'm bringing it here so others may comment.

I believe the only difference between Primary and Secondary types is mostly due to the basics of the Pokémon in question: Primary type is what it will always be, while Secondary type may change.

Example: Surskit is a Bug/Water type. It will always be a Bug, even after evolution, but as it evolves it's Secondary type no longer applies.

This would also explain why Flying types are always secondary, as they are only "flying" when in flight. Otherwise, when on land, they are simply what their Primary-type defines (Pidgeys are Normal, Zapdos is Electric, and so on).

I believe the games assume Flying-type Pokémon are always airborne when in battle, but it would be interesting to see if, in future generations, they add the option to tell a flying Pokémon to land, hence "losing" its Flying-type temporarily (for strategic reasons).

Anyway, this is just a theory. If I missed any evidence of it being otherwise, let me know :)

EDIT: Actually, I just noticed that there ARE some exceptions, where it's the Primary-type that changes in evolution, but so far that only seems to happen when you use an unusual form of evolution (like Onix losing its Rock-type into Steel-type when trading it with a particular item). This seems to hint that both types can change, but the Primary-type refers to the nature of the Pokémon (harder to change), while the Secondary-type is mostly a complementary part of its existence.

Raven-14 12:38, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately, all of that is speculation, which means it doesn't belong on the wiki. You could bring it up on the forums, however. --Andy^P_K^M_N (talk) 16:21, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Type Ordering

Can someone please explain why the types are listed in this order:

Normal Fighting Flying Poison Ground Rock Bug Ghost Steel Fire Water Electric Psychic Ice Dragon Dark

The ordering is messed up & completely wrong, the ordering used in the manual of Red/Blue, & the Diamond/Pearl Poketch type matchup application, & probably other official sources is this:

Normal Fire Water Electric Grass Ice Fighting Poison Ground Flying Psychic Bug Rock Ghost Dragon Dark Steel

Since this is the official ordering, should this not be the order Bulbapedia uses? If it is due to the former Physical/Special split then it really needs to be changed as it is 4 years out of date. Vuvuzela2010 21:16, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Go into the Pokédex in any Gen IV game and search by type. The list of selections comes up in the following order:

1. Normal
2. Fighting
3. Flying
4. Poison
5. Ground
6. Rock
7. Bug
8. Ghost
9. Steel
10. Fire
11. Water
12. Grass
13. Electric
14. Psychic
15. Ice
16. Dragon
17. Dark

As you can see, GameFreak themselves have maintained the prior ordering in the generation four games, so Bulbapedia did the same. Werdnae (talk) 00:59, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

My fail, I have just checked the Pokedex in Gen II, III & IV, & while the Gen II order is the Normal Fire etc, the Gen III/IV order is Normal Fighting etc. Odd that they would use the new order for the Dex & the old one for the Poketch. I have not checked the Gen V Dex however. Vuvuzela2010 11:08, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Any others?

I was just curious, are there any other types, that if mixed together into a duel-typed Pokémon together, would be like Dark/Ghost types in terms of resistance. If so, is it worth noting? --Bee § Bwakka 22:46, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Not with types alone. However a pure electric type with Levitate would also have no weaknesses. Werdnae (talk) 02:04, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Castform's Forms

Shouldn't they be listed too? We list every other differently-typed form. XVuvuzela2010X 18:29, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Move

I don't see why this page is at elemental type. I have never heard it called this by any official source. I have always heard it called simply "type", or in the Official Pokémon Handbook (which is Generation I, and all subsequent Official Pokémon Handbooks use "type"), "element". I do hope that this is not the reason for the page title, since Generation I can't really be trusted for official terms anymore (Clefaries anyone?). --SnorlaxMonster 09:40, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

I agree. Hardly any sources use element or elemental type. Blastoiseboy19^(Talk) was here at 19:27, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

I've wondered about this as well..... Ikarishipper900 03:39, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Nice catch, Snorlax - I have never heard it referred even as element. I have to say that "elemental type" seems like a general term for this kind of thing (for games in general), and was probably titled with that in mind, maybe. I vote that it should be moved/redirected to "Type". Jdthebud 06:11, 2 June 2011 (UTC)