Talk:List of Pokémon by evolutionary line
Zangoose and Seviper
Should Zangoose & Seviper really be listed as one family? They're not related in any way, on the contrary - they're enemies. It's not the same as listing Tauros & Miltank or Volbeat & Illumise... Thoughts? --ElectAbuzzzz 09:07, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
- I had noticed that before, and was considering changing it myself. I'm pretty sure that there's no way they're related. Arch rivals, yes, but the same family, no. Drapion 14:24, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
- Eh, true, I guess. They're not really related as much as they are rivals. --TTEchidna 20:13, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Family of One
Can I just say right now that it's stupid to call a family with one member a family. I suggest we just drop the word "Family" for all families of one, like so:
| Lowest | Trigger | Middle | Trigger | Highest | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Skarmory | |||||||
| Skarmory | |||||||
Drapion 03:33, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
- Eh, I personally kept those for the future scenario where they get additional members. TTEchidna 09:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Tauros and Miltank
Should they be a family? I'm 99% sure that their relation is more than just fan speculation and was in an official guide or something like that, but I can't remember.--Shinin 17:02, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, but these are evolution families.--Starlight the ampharos 00:21, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
Ditto
I made an account specificly because of this. Somebody forgot everyone's favorite pink gooey friend Ditto which should be in between Lapras and Eevee. --KenStabler12 05:49, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
Region-based headings
Is calling the families "Kanto-based", "Johto Based" etc, wouldn't it make more sense to list the headings as "Generation I-introduced families" instead? Especially considering that Gen II Pokemon like Houndour and Houndoom aren't actually found in Johto, or that the Roselia and Chimecho families are more common in Sinnoh than they are in Hoenn. --Thingamajig257 10:54, 4th February, 2010
Solrock and Lunatone
I don't see why Plusle and Minun are counted as one family while these two aren't. --Thingamajig257 13:36, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
Nidoran family & EP sorting
I can't figure out how to do it. The Nidoran lines should be in a shared "Nidoran family" Especially since both Nidoran can hatch from Nidoran female eggs, like it's the case with Illumise.
Oh and I have an idea. There are 3 columns (1->2->3) Wouldn't it make sense if pokemon would be sorted by amount of Effort points? For example, this way, Lapras(2EP) would be in the middle column like Shelgon, Farfetch'd(1EP) would still be in the 1st column like Bagon, while Lugia(3EP) would be in the last column, like Salamence.
An obvious example are Mantine and Skarmory. Right now Skarmory is above Mantyke. With the above sorting, Skarmory would be above Mantine since they both give 2 Effort Points. --Saiph charon 15:10, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
The following pokemon's places would change with this:
Lickitung & Lickilicky (2 & 3), Kangaskhan (2), Lapras (2), Pinsir (2), Tauros (2), Aerodactyl (2), Articuno (3), Zapdos (3), Moltres (3), Mewtwo (3), Mew (3), Unown (2, lol), Girafarig (2), Shuckle (2), Heracross (2), Corsola (2), Skarmory (2), Miltank (2), Raikou (3), Entei (3), Suicune (3), Lugia (3), Ho-oh (3), Celebi (3), Sableye (2), Mawile (2), Torkoal (2), Zangoose (2), Seviper (2), Solrock (2), Lunatone (2), Tropius (2), Absol (2), Relicanth (2), Regirock (3), Regice (3), Registeel (3), Latias (3), Latios (3), Kyogre (3), Groudon (3), Rayquaza (3), Jirachi (3), Deoxys (3), Spiritomb (2), Carnivine (2), Rotom (2), Uxie (3), Mesprit (3), Azelf (3), Dialga (3), Palkia (3), Heatran (3), Regigigas (3), Giratina (3), Cresselia (3), Manaphy (3), Darkrai (3), Shaymin (3), Arceus (3)--Saiph charon 15:31, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
The reason Nidoran doesn't have a shared family is because the Group version of the lop/evo template doens't allow for evolutions. --Goldenpelt 22:35, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Frillish
Shouldn't Frillish's fermale form be added to the Frillish Family? Likewise with Unfezant? I know it's only a difference in appearance between the male and female, but at the same time, they are different members of the same family.. Opinions? --Beyondashadow 03:11, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
Not an evolution family!
First of all, though admittedly similar, Plusle and Minun are not an Evolution family, neither are Throh or Sawk. They are not gender couterparts and they do not share a basic form. Also if we are to carry on including Sawk and Throh in the same family, isn't calling it the "Geki" family misleading? Yes their Japanese names share the element but to English speakers it means nothing. Thanks Anaserfrdrews12798 15:23, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
- This has been brought up above - it is currently IMHO arbitrary and not remotely factual, but someone would probably revert it if changed. Why Plusle+Minun and Throh+Sawk are an evolution family but not say other counterparts like Mawile+Sableye, Lunatone+Solrock and Heatmor+Durant is utterly beyond my comprehension. Shiny Porygon 16:45, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with everything here, as do a few other staff members, so I've changed it. If anyone disagrees, they'd better have a really good argument. ★Jo the Marten★ ಠ_ಠ♥ 17:08, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
sorting pokemon without 3 stages into columns by amount of EV
Anyone know how to move a pokemon 3 or 6 columns in, leaving empty space with background colour before it?
In order to move for example strong single-stage pokemon like Skarmory, Bouffalant etc. into the middle (an indicator for the column is the amount of EV pokemon give, since these range from 1 to 3, always going 1-2-3 on 3 stagers; in the case of Skarmory, it gives 2 EVs just like its counterpart Mantine who got a pre-evolution that gives 1EV, hence they're in different columns currently). It would just make sense (and even make likely candidates to get pre-evolutions easy to spot, which is interesting I thought)--Saiph charon 18:25, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
- I actually think it looks fine as it is. I'm sure if they get an evolution or pre-evolution in the future they will be moved around. The Pokémon aren't in different columns based on their EV, they are based on the order they go in for their respective evolutionary lines. :) Frozen Fennec 18:44, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
- Obviously they would get moved around then, that wasn't my point, it would just be an interesting side-effect; I know they aren't sorted based on EVs. I wouldn't be suggesting it otherwise. The amount of EV a pokemon gives is directly related to its stage in the evolutionary family.--Saiph charon 21:14, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
- I think that we should keep the lowest stage on the far left. Also, while EVs are a good indicator of if a Pokémon will get evolutions or pre-evolutions, not all evolved Pokémon give more than 1 EV. --SnorlaxMonster 13:51, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
- Wow that's odd. I wonder how that happened.
- I think that we should keep the lowest stage on the far left. Also, while EVs are a good indicator of if a Pokémon will get evolutions or pre-evolutions, not all evolved Pokémon give more than 1 EV. --SnorlaxMonster 13:51, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
- Obviously they would get moved around then, that wasn't my point, it would just be an interesting side-effect; I know they aren't sorted based on EVs. I wouldn't be suggesting it otherwise. The amount of EV a pokemon gives is directly related to its stage in the evolutionary family.--Saiph charon 21:14, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
There is 1 other line that has weird EVs (Paras 1 -> Parasect 3), but this is a first. Regardless, the 2 exceptions are both obvious about what column they'd fit (unaffected). What I'm suggesting wouldn't make it any less good or correct, and the pre-evolution thing isn't the main reason (they can still simply decide to give something a pre-evo and then improve its EV like happened to Roselia 1->2), its also about adding the feeling of how strong a pokemon is. If you came to this list and saw the likes of Heracross, Tropius and Skarmory in the middle column, unlike Delibird and Luvdisc who would be in the first, or all the legendaries in the final column, you would immediately understand that these start off as middle stage strong and aren't the average pokemon that you encounter in their weaker forms. It would just feel right. I'm not asking anyone to bother applying this cosmetic change, just point me towards something that will make me figure out more about how this all works with templates and such.--Saiph charon 22:02, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
- I think the best way to list them is simply based on the way they are now, not the way they may be in the future. The list is not about strength, but evolution stage based on the stages they have now. --SnorlaxMonster 13:14, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
- I'm not talking about any future, I even said that twice already. Look, Tropius is middle stage strong in the present time, indicated by its stats, and more directly by amount of EV it gives. It directly relates to the stage in the evolution family. This is the only place where this can be shown (and the only place that it should) and does no harm to the info on it.--Saiph charon 19:51, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
- The list is not, never has been, and never will be about stats or EVs. They are irrelevant to this page. It is about evolutionary families, and when we have one entry because there are fewer entries in that row it should be on the left because the rest of the table is left aligned. It would be aesthetically displeasing to have the alignment scattered. Werdnae (talk) 06:36, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
- I fail to see how it would be any more aesthetically displeasing than it is right now, but nevermind then.--Saiph charon 12:45, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
- The list is not, never has been, and never will be about stats or EVs. They are irrelevant to this page. It is about evolutionary families, and when we have one entry because there are fewer entries in that row it should be on the left because the rest of the table is left aligned. It would be aesthetically displeasing to have the alignment scattered. Werdnae (talk) 06:36, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
- I'm not talking about any future, I even said that twice already. Look, Tropius is middle stage strong in the present time, indicated by its stats, and more directly by amount of EV it gives. It directly relates to the stage in the evolution family. This is the only place where this can be shown (and the only place that it should) and does no harm to the info on it.--Saiph charon 19:51, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
- I think the best way to list them is simply based on the way they are now, not the way they may be in the future. The list is not about strength, but evolution stage based on the stages they have now. --SnorlaxMonster 13:14, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
Trivia (Maybe)
If I'm incorrect with this, I'm sorry, I haven't acquired Black or White yet. However, from what I've seen here, Generation V doesn't expand any pre-existing families, which is something every generation has done before (except generation I for obvious reasons). This would make Generation V more unique and would be worthy of a trivia note. Though, I'm sure I'm just missing someone.~Polky 22:55, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
- Actually, that peice of trivia is mentioned on the Generation V page already. Generation V is the first generation since Generation I not to introduce any baby Pokémon or cross-generational relatives is the text on that page. I don't see any harm mentioning it here if you decide to. --Pokemaster97 23:08, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
Legendaries and the idea of "families"
Why are a lot of the legendaries that do not evolve or morph considered in the same family? This brings up the question on what a family is considered here. I believe when talking about a family in Pokemon, we are not talking about who is related in the storyline or the scientific meaning to family, we are talking about physical evolutions or morphs. The legendary birds, etc. should not be considered in the same family as they are completely separate pokemon.
On top of all this, why do we even call them families? Is it because it is just the popular term? They have nothing to do with a family if in essence a Charmander that evolved into a Charmelion is the same exact being. On another note, it would be nice nowadays if Nintendo dropped the idea of saying they have 649+ pokemon when they really have around... I counted 328? The 649 turns a huge amount of people off, I would say it is one of the most complained about matters with the games. --Gheta 17:00, 07 June 2012 (UTC)
