User talk:SnorlaxMonster/Pokémon Syntax

Two additions

Are 'Browser' (as in the Fiore Browser) and 'Pokémon Storage System' collect capitalisations, or should they be lowercase? --Spriteit 03:59, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I checked and it is Pokémon Storage System. I don't actually own any Ranger games, but I checked a video online and it is indeed Browser. --SnorlaxMonster 11:17, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Battles

If Double Battle, Triple Battle, etc. are capital, shouldn't the respective articles be moved asap to raise awareness? Take it from my example: I often base capitalization (when in doubt) to how it is in the article. -tc ²₆ tc 26- 09:33, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Ideally, a lot of things should be moved. They don't really need approval (apart from maybe changing disambig brackets because that's huge) because this is right and the other is wrong, but the reason I haven't done it yet is because there is a lot of relinking that will need to be done as a result. If you want to move Double Battle, Triple Battle, etc., go ahead, but I really don't like doing relinking (I'm generally trying to juggle a tonne of other things anyway). I've seen BulbaBot do relinking before (I'm pretty sure), so if we could get it automated, that would be amazing. --SnorlaxMonster 09:38, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Stat

how about stats such as Attack and Defense ? should they be capitalized ?----DJ Wolfy 09:51, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Yes, they are capitalized in BW, and we go by the most recent main series games.--電禅Den Zen 10:01, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Yes. --SnorlaxMonster 10:02, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

How about ribbons ? Do they need capitalization ?----DJ Wolfy 14:15, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Yes. --SnorlaxMonster 14:24, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Contests ?----DJ Wolfy 20:10, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Yes. ^ht 14 05:10, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

How about "Single Battle" and "Symbol" ? ----DJ Wolfy 14:42, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Well ?----DJ Wolfy 17:13, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh and status ailments too. ----DJ Wolfy 19:49, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

And Wild ? damn I keep forgetting. ----DJ Wolfy 11:29, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Symbol and Single Battle are. Status ailments are not, and neither is wild Pokémon. --SnorlaxMonster 05:20, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

TCG

Could this be expanded to include TCG? A lot of terms are incorrectly interpreted within the fandom, and it would be nice to have a list of them somwhere, which this page would be great for. ^Maverick _Nate 15:53, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Absolutely. What kind of terms did you want to add? --SnorlaxMonster 12:54, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

I'll work out a list. I'll have to look through the entire TCG to get a complete group of them, and that might take a little bit. ^Maverick _Nate 19:06, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Mud and Bait

In-game (at least in SoulSilver) the 'mud' and 'bait' (as used in Safari Zone games) are capitalized in-game. (in NPC conversations) Is this sufficient reason to capitalize those terms (as they relate to usage in the Safari Zone) on Bulbapedia? Steph 20:09, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes. --SnorlaxMonster 10:05, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Other

I've seen that starter is not capitalized and therefore should be added to the list. How about Contest pass and Contest hall ?----DJ Wolfy 14:29, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

The reason I don't ave starter on the list is that I don't believe it is an official term. Since it is unofficial, it is lowercase by default. I want to keep this list restricted to official terms only. Contest Hall is covered by locations and Contest Pass by items. --SnorlaxMonster 14:36, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

At least you should specify that unofficial terms go lowercase by default.----DJ Wolfy 14:38, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Good point. --SnorlaxMonster 14:47, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Uhm, shouldn't it be specified what kind of Eggs, Fossils, Symbols and such should be capitalized ? New users might think that not only Frontier Symbols should be capitalized. The same for Pokémon Eggs and Fossils.----DJ Wolfy 18:00, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Also, how about the name of the series ? ----DJ Wolfy 19:24, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

What, "Pokémon"? It's already there. And all terms only refer to things within the Pokémon universe (Pokémon doesn't change the grammar rules of the English language). I'll add some more links to help clarify though. --SnorlaxMonster 14:34, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

No, I meant series... Original, Advanced Generation...----DJ Wolfy 14:47, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

But why don't the original series get capitalization ?----DJ Wolfy 15:15, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Uhm, well ?----DJ Wolfy 15:38, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

It's not an official term, and you'll notice that it's never capitalized on BP anywhere (well, there's always a few strays). Same reason it's not italicized. --SnorlaxMonster 15:45, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

When exactly do words use "the" and don't use "the". An example here and here. Also, how about "Cave of Origin" ? What does that use ?----DJ Wolfy 16:22, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Also, how about level and gender ? ----DJ Wolfy 16:37, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Bulleted points (when they're not sentences) and sections work like article titles. So while in a sentence you would always write "the Wallace Cup", in the article title it is merely called "Wallace Cup". --SnorlaxMonster 11:22, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, how about "level", "gender" and Cave of Origin ?----DJ Wolfy 14:01, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

"The Cave of Origin", "level", and "gender". --SnorlaxMonster 12:02, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Move Tutor

In-game (in SoulSilver, on a sign in Blackthorn City) and several times on Pokémon.com, 'move tutor' is capitalized as 'Move Tutor'. However, Bulbapedia consistently spells the term as 'move tutor.' Is the evidence for capitalization of the term sufficient to overturn the Bulbapedia convention? Steph (talk) 15:28, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

The sign in Blackthorn City and the map description of Driftveil City do not mean anything, as all words are capitalized in those media regardless of whether they should be usually or not (both are followed by a capital "House"). However, since both Pokémon.com and Prima guidebooks use Move Tutor, I believe that it is fair to say that it should be capitalized (at least until we get it used in in-game in a sentence). --SnorlaxMonster 13:40, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Stuff

How about this ? Do none of them get "the" or just some ? Also, what does Cave of Origin get ? Do "level" and "gender" need capitalization ?----DJ Wolfy 12:03, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Oh, just now I've seen that you replied above... Sorry.----DJ Wolfy 12:04, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I would think that many of them would use "the" in sentences, but in a list like that they shouldn't. I've got a lot of catching up to do right now, so I don't have time to watch a bunch of PMD LPs to work out whether each location uses "the" or not right now (I'm not restarting my games just for that purpose). You're welcome to investigate yourself, if you would like. --SnorlaxMonster 12:10, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I'll pass, got a lot of other stuff to edit. Btw, how long will it take for this page to be mainspaced ?----DJ Wolfy 12:16, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Probably when the rest of the MoS gets finished, since I'm essentially breaking off part of it (honestly I started this because I saw people warring over the useage of "the" a few times and checked what it should have been, but I kept forgetting and needing to check again so this page just compiled the list of them). --SnorlaxMonster 12:18, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

That's great. Good thinking.----DJ Wolfy 12:30, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

How about cosplay ? Is it capitalized ?----DJ Wolfy 12:58, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

It's not official terminology, so no. --SnorlaxMonster 10:40, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

How about aura ? ----DJ Wolfy 10:50, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

No idea, but I would assume lowercase. It hasn't appeared in the games, the TCG is meaningless since it is both in a card title and at the start of a sentence, and I only have a DVD of one anime episode (Pokemon.com does work for this because DVDs have official subtitles) from AG and no manga, so I have no way of checking. --SnorlaxMonster 11:04, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Ah well... Uhm could you explain me the hypenation a lil better ? You said in a previous discussion that " Correct usage would be "Snorlax is a Normal type" (used as a noun) or "Snorlax is Normal-type" (used as an adjective)." That means it applies to all adjectives not necessarily if they're standing next to a noun ? "Snorlax is Normal-type is the same with Snorlax is a Normal-type Poké" right ? That means that "Snorlax being a Normal-type is immune to the Ghost type", the first is hypenated while the last isn't ?----DJ Wolfy 12:09, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

To answer the question about Aura, yes, it is capitalized. See here, here and here. And I have a question; anime-exclusive Trainer classes are capitalized? There is an inconsistency, Pokémon Connoisseur is, but Pokémon watcher and Pokémon stylist are not.--Mikuri (talk) 13:14, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Your hyphenation was all right except "Snorlax being a Normal type is immune to the Ghost type" is the correct hyphenation (although it still sounds weird and I would phrase it "Snorlax, being a Normal type, is immune to Ghost-type moves"). Anyway, if you're havng difficulty distinguishing if the phrase is being used as an adjective or noun, it is usually preceded by "a" or "the" when used as a noun (e.g. "Snorlax is a Normal type" and "The Normal type is the best type"); when used as an adjective, it is usually preceded by a verb, adverb, or adjective or proceeded by a noun (e.g. "Snorlax is Normal-type", "Normal-type Snorlax is weak to Fighting-type moves")

I'd really like some reliable print source before we decide to make all anime Trainer classes capitalized (the current inconsistencies are not reassuring to the reliability of random books or Pokemon.com). I think we should go off manga, or failing that, subtitles if there is an inconsistency in print media (if it doesn't appear in the games). Aura and Stylist I'm happy with capitalizing based on Pokemon.com, however, because neither has conflicting sources. --SnorlaxMonster 15:18, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

So.. it's ok to go right ahead and capitalize them ?----DJ Wolfy 15:24, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Aura and Pokémon Stylist? Yeah. --SnorlaxMonster 15:26, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Then I guess you should add them to the list.----DJ Wolfy 16:03, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Team Rocket

Should I correct instances of "Team Rocket (Jessie, James, and Meowth, not the organization itself) made their appearance" to "Team Rocket made its appearance"? (For context, see http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Steph&redirect=no#TRT)Steph (talk) 21:56, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

What Werdane said on your talk page. --SnorlaxMonster 11:43, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Lv.

Is "Lv." as in "Lv. 80 Arceus" capitalized? On a side note, super effective doesn't seem like a noun. I think you should also mention Route 34 and ashigatana/Ashigatana. On another side note, can you explain why anime episodes are italicized? I always thought they were to be put in quotation marks. ~Enervation 00:14, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

I believe Lv. is, but it shouldn't be written that way on Bulbapedia anyway. Yeah, you're right and I've tried to rephrase it to be correct. Ashigatana is a Japanese word romanized, not an English name, so we don't know whether it should or shouldn't be capitalized; however, it would appear that the day after you posted this message we got its English name from Pokédex 3D Pro, "seamitar", which is apparently uncapitalized. I believe they should be, but Bulbapedia opted to use italics a long time ago; quotation marks would certainly make more sense for "If the Scarf Fits, Wear It!", however. --SnorlaxMonster 03:08, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Scalchops, Stylers, and Preferred Tense

Should "scalchop" be capitalized or uncapitalized? Since it's not worth making another talk topic over, what about "styler"? (as in "capture styler") In addition, what is the preferred tense (at least episode synopsis-wise) in Bulbapedia's articles? (for example, which is preferred: "Meowth grabbed Pikachu with the grabbing device" or "Meowth grabs Pikachu with the grabbing device"? Steph (talk) 23:45, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Scalchop is already on the page (it was added on June 18); it is uncapitalized. Styler should be capitalized, as should Capture Styler. Tense in episodes I'm not sure of, but would belong on the anime MoS, not here, because this page is about official syntax while episode synopsis tense is a stylistic choice. Ask Kenji-girl about it; it needs to be on the anime MoS. --SnorlaxMonster 13:03, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Bicycles, Pokégear, Pester Ball

Should "bicycle" (as it pertains to the games) be capitalized? It is capitalized on its page, but inconsistently. The term "Pokégear" is referred to with and without camel case. ('PokéGear' being the camel case equivalent) Which is the correct case? Pester balls, used in Pokémon Snap, appear to be regular Poké Balls. (which are capitalized) However, they are not actually Poké Balls. 'Pester Ball' is capitalized on its page----should it be capitalized? Steph (talk) 19:18, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Bicycle should be, and is already covered being an item name. Pokégear was camelcase in a TCG card released in Genereation II, but HGSS and the new Pokégear card have fixed it and it is officially not camelcase (I'll add it to the page). Pester Ball is only written in allcaps in-game as far as I can tell from videos, so it should be capitalized. --SnorlaxMonster 08:46, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

So "bicycle" should never be used generically? More words/phrases: lake trio, the Underground, movie, lookalike item, physical move, Shadow Sky (and other weather), substitute (the actual doll), and levitating. Should <sc> ever be used? Should "Contest Properties" on type pages be changed to "Contest properties"? ~Enervation 00:43, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

You could argue that outside of the games it could, but I think for consistency and lack of evidence indicating otherwise, Bicycle should be always be capitalized. Lake trio and lake guardians were both used in the anime (the same episode even), but without subtitles I can't say if they should be capitalized, but for now no. Underground has now been added. I'd like to wait for the English release for making a judgement on B2W2 terms. Lookalike Item is capitalized (as is Exclusive Item). Shadow Sky... I've never played Colo or XD, but from looking at videos, that's probably not the best name for the weather condition; it looks like "shadowy aura" would be a better name. "Status" in the description of Prankster is lowercase, so I would say that physical and special should be too (there's probably a better source for this, but I'm not sure where to look). The substitute doll is lowercase (and I have now added it to the page). Based on the description of the Iron Ball, levitating is lowercase, but it's not really an official term anyway. <sc> should be used when quoting the games and they use ALLCAPS. This is much more common in older games, and you will see it used in Pokédex entries, and move, item, and Ability descriptions. "Contest Properties" should be changed to "Contest properties". --SnorlaxMonster 11:51, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Weather conditions?

This discussion has several references to the description of weather within the games. My Prima guide capitalizes it: "The Hail weather will last in all the wild Pokémon battles from Route 216 to Snowpoint City." while the games vary on capitalization, leaning towards non-capitalization. --Abcboy (talk) 01:25, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Games take priority over guidebooks. Games have them exclusively uncapitalized in the most recent appearances (older games are less consistent in syntax, and retcon means that new conventions take priority). --SnorlaxMonster 02:06, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Okay then. --Abcboy (talk) 02:49, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Conquest capitalization

About your request at my talk page, I've done a lot of Pokémon Conquest capitalization on the site, which may be good to have on this page. I'll list some of it here, deliberately excluding the many battlefield features, which can be found in the kingdom articles, correctly capitalized.

Uncapitalized

link
kingdom
ponigiri (not the item)
red ponigiri (the Ponigiri Shop service, not the item)
blue ponigiri (the Ponigiri Shop service, not the item)
move rank
story
army
castle
month
recruit
equip
<kingdom weather conditions>

Capitalized

Perfect Link
Energy
Range
Warrior
Warlord
Warrior Skill
Ponigiri (the item, not the Ponigiri Shop service or otherwise)
Red Ponigiri (the item, not the Ponigiri Shop service)
Blue Ponigiri (the item, not the Ponigiri Shop service)

Yvnr (talk) 16:10, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Are you sure you have your Ponigiri around the right way, because it contradicts your edit here. I haven't played Conquest, so I'm relying on you. I'm not sure how important some of those words you had there are (e.g. month) so I haven't added them all. --SnorlaxMonster 07:06, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

I listed the Ponigiri Shop services (not the items) as uncapitalized, and in the edit you're linking to, I changed various Ponigiri Shop services (not the items) from upper to lower case. How is that a contradiction? All the words I listed are central terms in the game, so it's your call what to include or not (some could be considered self-explanatory), although I would say I disagree on the exclusion of "move rank". Yvnr (talk) 14:26, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

I'll add move rank then. In that edit it looks to me like you changed item names to lowercase; I understood the service as selling Ponigiri, and "only the ponigiri is sold" appears to be talking about the item. I typically excluded things if they didn't have their own articles; if they are important concepts they typically do. --SnorlaxMonster 14:58, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, that's not the case - those are the Ponigiri Shop services, bought and instantly consumed - not items, not capitalized. The items, which can be kept and equipped for usage in battle, can be bought from Shops, as opposed to Ponigiri Shops. I'm elaborating on this misunderstanding because the information is still hidetagged on your page. Also, I'd suggest rephrasing to emphasize a few points that are currently missing; the word ponigiri is never capitalized, except when appearing in the name of the Ponigiri Shop kingdom utility or the items Ponigiri, Red Ponigiri, Blue Ponigiri, and Purple Ponigiri. Ponigiri is not capitalized in the names of the Ponigiri Shop services ponigiri, red ponigiri, and blue ponigiri. Yvnr (talk) 18:14, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Ah, okay, that makes sense then. This is one of the problems I come across when trying to do this for games I haven't played. --SnorlaxMonster 13:13, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to nitpick, but your wording in the special case of ponigiri misses the point that ponigiri is a term itself. While it currently reads:

The items Ponigiri, Red Ponigiri, Blue Ponigiri, and Purple Ponigiri (which are stored in the player's inventory) are always capitalized, as is Ponigiri Shop. However, the shop services (which can be purchased at Ponigiri Shops) are uncapitalized.

The following would offer a full explanation:

Ponigiri is not a capitalized term. However, that does not mean it is exempted from capitalization when appearing in titles that are capitalized. This is the case with Pokémon Conquest kingdom locations (i.e. Ponigiri Shop) and items (i.e. Ponigiri, Red Ponigiri, Blue Ponigiri, and Purple Ponigiri), but not with the services available at Ponigiri Shops (i.e. ponigiri, red ponigiri, and blue ponigiri). Yvnr (talk) 17:02, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

It's alright, I appreciate nitpicking (that's basically what this page is and how wikis work). I've rewritten the point in a way I think reflects this. --SnorlaxMonster 05:25, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Supereffective

Also, it seems that more recent games prefer "a supereffective move is a move that is super effective" over "a super-effective move is a move that is super effective", so you may want to consider that. Yvnr (talk) 16:10, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

I had noticed that a while ago and meant to add it to the page, but never got around to. I've added it now. --SnorlaxMonster 07:06, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

I have a question

I'm a little confused about some of the names of places that require the use of "the" before it. I agree with most of them, but I refer to Slowpoke Well, Sky Pillar, Eterna Forest, Spear Pillar, and Snowpoint Temple without using "the" first (maybe Skyarrow Bridge as well?). It sounds more natural to me; they're names of specific places. Doesn't the sentence "I went to Sky Pillar" or "I entered Eterna Forest" make more sense than "I went to the Sky Pillar" or "I entered the Eterna Forest"? Admittedly, Sky Pillar could go either way, but I don't think the other four should have "the" used before them. AGGRON989 10:18, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Just so you know, this isn't conjecture, this is they way they are officially referred to. The problem is you're viewing them in the wrong way; the Spear Pillar and Sky Pillar are the pillar of the sky and the spear-shaped pillar, respectively, not just something named "Sky Pillar". The Eterna Forest and the Snowpoint Temple work in the same way as "the Snowpoint Pokémon Center". Similar logic can be applied to your other objections. --SnorlaxMonster 05:25, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

I see. Never mind. AGGRON989 11:26, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

CamelCase

You should note that the DeepSea items CamelCase isn't present in Mystery Dungeon (at least Rescue and Explorers). Marked +-+-+ (talk) 10:53, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Baby Pokémon

Is the group name Baby Pokémon always capitalized or not capitalized? --Cinday123 (Talk) 22:46, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

From Crystal and HeartGold text dumps, it's "baby Pokémon". Unless there's some example in B2W2 onward of it capitalized, it's not (I couldn't find any in BW). --SnorlaxMonster 09:18, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Starter Pokémon

Are starter Pokémon has to be always capitalized or uncapitalized? --Cinday123 (Talk) 10:01, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

It's not really an official term, so "starter" is not capitalized. It does appear here and here, but I really don't trust Pokémon.com episode summaries for that kind of thing because they very often contain errors. It may be the case that guidebooks capitalize it. --SnorlaxMonster 10:39, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Evolution

Is the capitalization of evolution/Evolution a new thing as of XY? I ask because I can't remember it happening in any game other than as part of Mega Evolution (although my memory is very probably faulty) and our style has always been to lowercase it. Also, your note just says "derivative terms," but some changes have been reverted on the grounds that the games don't capitalize the verb form; exactly which derivative terms should and should not be capitalized, then? Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 00:54, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

The verb form is never capitalized so that should probably be made clear in the note. I haven't checked for anything besides Mega Evolution since that's a bit difficult. I feel like I've never even seen evolutionary besides in a fan context though. --It's Funktastic~!_{話してください} 00:58, 6 April 2014 (UTC)