Talk:List of Shadow Pokémon

Find again?

Ok, so my brother played the game without me and missed the Furret owned by Cail. He had Pokéballd ready but he just didn't think it was worth it. But now I know I need Furret to get Ho-oh. Can I find that Furret again? Or is it game over so to speak. Mr.Char (talk) 07:30, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

• • As a matter of fact does this apply to an Shadow Pokémon? Mr.Char (talk) 07:31, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

In both Colosseum and XD, if you ever miss a Shadow Pokémon, there is always another chance to get it. No matter how many times you miss it, it will be somewhere. You can fight Cain multiple times, but for some other Shadow Pokémon, they usually show up in the Snagem hideout after the credits roll. Schiffy (Speak to me|What I've done) 02:10, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Add recovered moves?

I'd like to propose adding the moves that get restored once the Shadow moves are removed via purification. Unfortunately I don't really have the knowledge of Bulbapedia's templates to come up with a good way of doing so. Nairbnroh (talk) 06:30, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

I'm sort of working on that, and a bit more. I've been digging into Colosseum, and I'm half ready to update the Purification and related pages, except that I haven't checked into XD's info yet, and recently I've been bogging myself down in other Colosseum miscellanea rather than finding what I need to know in XD about Purification and Shadow Pokemon... Tiddlywinks (talk) 06:39, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

That's EXACTLY how I envisioned it to look! I just had no idea how to do that without spending hours studying templates. I hope this can be implemented! Nairbnroh (talk) 21:35, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

I would happily vouch for using your edit of the page, even in its current form. The current version is missing valuable information, such as recovered moves, that your list thankfully includes. I've actually been using your version for a personal project and I feel that the site is failing us if it cannot provide the information that yours does. I'm not that good with wiki's, but is there any logic reason why we couldn't simply copy over your information, even as is? Is there any notable objections to doing so? EuroMIX (talk) 02:04, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

At the time of my last message, I didn't have the XD data, so that was a fair reason to wait. The main reason we can't just copy in my version—that a staff member's approval is at least nominally required—is that the mainspace template here is protected. (It shouldn't especially need to be, but for now, it is.) If it weren't, I might indeed be inclined to just change it myself. Personally, I just want to shore up doubts before putting it in the mainspace, but my current doubts aren't huge, so I'll go ahead and ask someone about it. Tiddlywinks (talk) 06:17, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Can you try putting the Shadow and recovered moves into a sub-table of the cell? That should stop it from splitting each row when it is sorted. --Abcboy (talk) 06:53, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Ack, I never thought about that. I'll work on it. Tiddlywinks (talk) 07:05, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Well, I've done as well as I can with that. It works, but it looks a bit weird, but I'm not sure how to make it look less weird. Do you have any further suggestions, Abcboy? (If you want to play with it to try to fix the weirdness, feel free.) Or would you like to edit it into the mainspace template for us? (Or maybe promote it to another staff member, or should I just do that?) Tiddlywinks (talk) 09:08, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

I fixed the weirdness by removing the containing cell's padding and getting rid of the cell spacing in the inner table. Since any purified move will have a different color than the shadow move, I don't think a border between them is necessary, but it can always be added with the CSS border attribute. --Abcboy (talk) 09:22, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

And it has been changed. --Abcboy (talk) 09:50, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

That's great to see, my only concern being the handling of Suicune. A duplicate entry like that could lead the unaware to assume that there might be two in the game, especially if they are just glancing through the list. Perhaps adding just one entry with a comment either next to the move and/or the location with something like "Hydro Pump replaces Surf if encountered in Deep Colosseum" would be sufficient, or do people feel like that would not be clear enough? EuroMIX (talk) 12:26, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

The only way to put any sort of note onto the move or most of the other cells is to add a new "if" to the template (which isn't great, for just one use) or just write out code instead of using the template for that row. These are both possible, but kind of troublesome. Personally though, I kind of don't think anyone "glancing" through will just assume they're both in there; it seems more obvious to me that there should be something weird about those entries.

There is already a note in an asterisk in the location columns. Did you miss that, or do you mean to say that you think it should be more explicit? Tiddlywinks (talk) 12:43, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

I think it just looks a bit odd seeing as it's the only Pokémon to have two visible entries. I played around with editing the page and I see what you mean about the code likely not permitting even a comment next to move names. I tried utilising the "pure" code to add in an entry for Hydro Pump under Surf, if only to see how it would look, but it does appear that beyond that either adding a comment cannot be done without changing the code, or I simply lack the capability to do so. I don't want to stress anyone with extra work, but I'm wondering if we can find a cleaner way to add in the necessary information without two visual entries for Suicune since most of the duplicate information is redundant. Ideally, I'd envision it being as simple as: Hydro Pump* EuroMIX (talk) 13:15, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

(resetting indent)Is this to your liking?

{| style="height:5px"
{{lop/shadow|245|Suicune|40|13,000|Shadow Rush|XD|Leer|Normal|Gust|Flying|Surf|Water|Colo|Cipher Admin|Venus|[[The Under Subway]]/[[Realgam Tower]]{{tt|*|If Suicune is caught at either of these locations, it will have Surf}}<br>[[Deep Colosseum]]{{tt|*|If Suicune is caught at this location, it will have Hydro Pump}}|pure1=Rain Dance|pure1t=Water|pure4=Hydro Pump|pure4t=Water|link=Venus}}
|}

If this is clear enough, it can replace the two rows. I don't think anyone will think that Surf can be purified into Hydro Pump or that its fourth move is "Surf Hydro Pump". --Abcboy (talk) 13:33, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

I prefer that to the current solution. I do see the concerns over confusing the move, but visually I'd imagine the clue would be the word Hydro being on a different line when space would permit "Surf Hydro" to be listed together if it were all one move. I think that the trade-offs may be worth it, especially since it removes redundant information and keeps the page to one entry per Pokémon, per game. EuroMIX (talk) 13:54, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Items

Several Shadow Pokemon in both Colosseum and XD are guaranteed to hold items, usually type-boosting items like the Miracle Seed and Magnet. Often the only means of acquiring these items is by catching these specific Pokemon, so I think including a held item column to the page would be very helpful. I'm not very good at wiki editing so I don't feel confident in making this change myself. But I compiled a list of items held by Shadow Pokemon here for anyone else to use should they want to add this information: https://pastebin.com/7yMTHkUP Hopefully this is enough. Thank you! PuffyPuffyPuffPuff (talk) 03:24, 15 August 2020 (UTC)