Talk:Professor Laventon

Debunking the Laventon ancestor theory

Because yall keep trying to add this 'trivia' about Laventon being somehow related to Hop and Leon, let me give a real quick rundown on why it's major nonsense:

• "Laventon looks like Hop/Leon!" No he doesn't. He's from Galar and he has dark skin, but that's where his similarities with Leon/Hop ends. Laventon has black hair and black eyes (as seen in the concept art to the right), whereas Hop/Leon both have purple hair and gold eyes. Laventon's head looks purple because he wears a purple HAT.
• "But his skin tone and that he's from Galar MUST mean he's related to Leon/Hop!" Nessa and Raihan are also from Galar and they also have dark skin. In fact, Nessa and Raihan's hair color are black, the same as Laventon. At this point, Nessa and Raihan have more in common with Laventon than Hop/Leon. Does that make Laventon ancestor to either of them? Of course not.
• "Ok then why does Laventon wear purple if not to allude to Hop/Leon?" Idk, because his name is Laventon? As in, Lavender??? That purplish colored plant???
• "Ok then why does Laventon's facial hair look similar to Leon?" People can have similar looking facial hair in real life???
• "Hop wants to be a professor" Yeah cool, that still doesn't imply Laventon is his ancestor. Literally Hop's stated goal to be a professor is he realizes he's not good at battling and wants to do his own thing. He never said "uhh actually i have an ancestor who was a professor," he came to that conclusion that he wants to be a professor on his own.

I'll leave yall with this: not every character in PLA is (or should be) an ancestor to anyone. Some of them are heavily implied ancestors, yes (eg. Arezu/Mars, Lian/Clay, Gaeric/Wulfric, the Miss Fortunes, etc.), but you can't just thumbtacks-and-string random Pokemon characters to see who is related to Adaman or Melli or whoever. Sometimes people can just die without bearing offspring. Sometimes two people can share a similar skin tone without being related to each other. It happens, yall.

Also: Ancestry in PLA is implied not just via appearance, but also by their behavior, what they say and do, and what mons they use. Cyllene is the head of the Galaxy Corps, like Cyrus is the head of Team Galactic. Charm uses mons that Agatha and Bertha use, and she mentions being from Kanto. What does Laventon do, or what Pokemon does he use, that makes him similar to Hop or Leon? None, as far as i'm aware.

So unless TPC one day comes out and says "yeah Laventon is related to Hop/Leon", i beg yall to please cease putting this speculation on this page.

Anzasquiddles (talk) 09:33, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Also noting that the facial hair really isn't that similar. And yeah having dark skin and being British and from Galar is obviously not unique to Laventon, Hop, and Leon. Landfish7 09:42, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Seems like you don't understand how fictional characters work. You and your great grandfather can have nothing in common, but here we have ONLY THREE people, an ancestor and two descendants. Of course if they were meant to be related creators would put similar elements on them that would mean nothing in real life like having similar dominating color in their design or interests like being professor.

• Yes, Nessa and Raihan also have darker skin, but this argument doesn't work since there are multiple shades of skin not just two.
• And why was Laventon based around Lavender? Why couldn't it be deliberate choice to refer Leon and Hop? Since Laventon always wears a hat he's hair isn't visible so the purplish clothes could serve instead to connect him to Leon and Hop.
• Facial hair: Yes, you can have similar so at most this doesn't matter.
• Hop being professor: Just like Flint rather didn't just just base his entire team around his ancestor.

You can't dismiss all these similarities, so many of them can't be one a big coincidence. When you look at all ancestors in PLA you can clearly see a pattern that they mostly ancestor of Sinnoh characters and there is one ancestor for each other region, Charm for Kanto, Sanqua for Johto, Beni for Hoenn, Lian for Unova (Ingo is not an ancestor), Gaeric for Kalos, Calaba for Alola and Laventon for Galar.--Rocket Grunt 15:58, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Due to Bulbapedia standards and trying to avoid speculation whenever possible, we have to avoid saying they're "confirmed ancestors", so assuming any of these characters are ancestors (which they are), they would make it abundantly clear that they are, this can include hair color, facial structure, hair style, eye color, Pokémon usage, etc. plenty of things to make you go "this person is related to this person!" this isn't just a a ancestor thing, but also a just a general family relation thing. It's a story structure thing in fiction and not exclusive to Pokémon, not all fiction does it of course but it is rather common to tell you the parallels. It's not at all how genetics work in real life, but it's a good story teaching tool. However, just because it's a story teaching tool, doesn't mean every little thing lines up, there is patterns but not everything is a pattern. The only thing Laventon has in common at all with either Hop or Leon is his skin tone (and saying characters look alike because of just their skin tone is a rather racist remark may I add). the shade of purple Laventon is associated with isn't even the same shade of purple Hop and Leon has in their hair (and only one of them has purple on their clothes). Hop being a professor doesn't indicate anything. Flint and Zisu have plenty of things in common with one another that isn't their profession (and as far as I know, their professions aren't the same). Also you mentioned Calaba being from Alola, there has been nothing indicating of such, and it just seems like you're looking for a pattern that does not exist. TrainerSplash (talk) 01:32, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

I should add: "Why is Laventon named/based on lavender?" Almost ALL major Pokémon characters are named after flora in some way, shape or form. It's like how RWBY names all its characters after colors.

In the west ppl tend to associate flora names with just the professors but even as far back as Gen 1 we have Kikuko (chrysanthemum), Natsume (jujube tree), Katsura (name of a type of Japanese tree), Sakaki (name of another type of Japanese tree), etc. Some of these characters have designs based on their plant names: eg. Agatha in LGPE has a shawl with chrysanthemum patterns on it. So Laventon being named and themed after lavender could very well be just a case of this; it doesn't have to be anything deep. Anzasquiddles (talk) 07:28, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

TrainerSplash: I know that speculation is supposed to be reduced to minimum, that's why when something is not officially confirmed we use words like "might" and put such detail in trivia section. Pretending to not see something obvious is further from the truth than stating it's a fact.

Anzasquiddles: I know that almost every character's name is based on a plant, the possible connection refers specifically to Laventon and Leon/Hop being designed with purple as dominant color which is why lavender could be chosen for Laventon and it just adds to multitude of other similarities between these characters.--Rocket Grunt 16:27, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

You clearly didn't read what I said. If they made an ancestor character they *would* have made it obvious like any other character. Twp vague similarities aren't obvious. TrainerSplash (talk) 20:31, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't see this before (I just noticed an edit). I think what TRG has said so far is pretty slight evidence. (FWIW, I think Laventon's facial hair is worth squat.) It feels like there should be an extra connection that feels more intentional (less accidental) to connect them.

Maybe there is. Laventon's striped pants seem to mirror Leon's striped shirt. This seems perhaps intentional to me. (Also, I think the purple hat in particular is supposed to make it look like he has purple hair. Perhaps like Hop/Leon.) Also, just for funsies, Laventon and Leon also start and end the same! (If you're really crazy, they even both have an 'e' in the middle.)

I'm not saying I think this means it should be added. I'm saying...do other people think that's enough? Tiddlywinks (talk) 22:21, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Oh, come now, that shirt and hat aren't very convincing. Inkster (talk) 00:36, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

(resetting indent) I could definitely see those for being given reason, however, I think the main calling point is that the ancestor characters should be nearly the spitting image of of the modern day character going off the patterns, a signature feature that makes you go "oh yeah! that is them!" And I don't think anything brought up about the visual features of Leon or Hop match that of Laventon. We know clothing doesn't rule anything out, as Lian has a hat very similar to Clay's, but that would be Clay's defining trait along with his hair style. Leon and or Hop's defining traits imo would be either Leon's long hair, their hair color, Leon's beard, and their eye color (and eye shape). And in terms of clothing in particular, Leon's cape, in which Hop's jacket already pays homage to. I will note that the hair/hair colors between the characters are way more similar than I thought, and pants/shirt are pretty similar than expected as well. I just don't think any of this is very striking similar to what most characters would have, but I did notice that Leon and Laventon's color usage as whole however are, lots of white, gold and black, with the purple nearing the top of their head. TrainerSplash (talk) 08:29, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

The other "ancestors" are obvious and not really debatable and are only technically unconfirmed but like, definitely intentional. But the case of Laventon comes across as more of a fan theory than an obvious connection, and unless the fan theory is/was significant and transcends the fandom, I don't think it should be included. It's just missing that something that clinches it as a clear intention. I agree with Tiddlywinks that the pants bring it really close but for me it's just not enough. Landfish7 09:21, 5 December 2022 (UTC)