Talk:Honey

Rarities incorrect

I am just about absolutely certain that the article has the rarities of the rows reversed. I have just personally done some extensive testing on honey trees from about 250 slatherings on Pokémon Platinum, and Combee and Burmy are by far the most common Pokémon encountered, while Heracross is under 5%. The probabilities listed in the table imply the results ought to be just the opposite; are you honestly sure the rows don't go by descending order of probability? I have also found Combee to be significantly more common than Burmy, which really ought not to be the case if column 0 is truly 20% and column 1 70% as the article says (though this could be attributed to chance if we assume that an abnormal number of my trees started out in column 0 and remained there thanks to the 90% chance of picking from the same column). Dragonfree 16:33, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

The rarities as displayed now are clearly wrong. I haven't been playing Platinum long enough to get a feeling for the Honey Tree rarity there, but I slathered hundreds of trees in Pearl, and saw only about five heracrosses (and no munchlaxes). It was nowhere near 14%, and the claim that heracrosses are almost three times as common as combees is ridiculous.

If the percentages for the rows and the columns are both reversed, these are the D/P rarities, which match my experience much more closely:

Wurmple	29
Combee	22
Silcoon/Cascoon	14
Burmy	11
Cherubi	7.5
Aipom	5.5
Heracross	1

Extrapolating to the Platinum chart, these would be the rarities:

Combee	32
Burmy	22
Wurmple	14
Cherubi	11
Aipom	10
Heracross	1

Do these figures match everyone else's subjective experience? --NoBuddy 06:19, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

The Platinum chart is an almost perfect match for my results, at least. This also rhymes with the fact that at least when it comes to route and water encounter data, the game arranges the slots in descending order by probability; it would make sense for it to do the same for both the columns and rows here. Dragonfree 15:07, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

So, should someone at least put a disclaimer on the page, until a hacker can confirm that the rarities are backwards? There are a lot of people who use Bulbapedia without looking at the Talk pages. NoBuddy 18:10, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I've fixed the encounter table and edited all the calculated rarities accordingly. --a_magical_me 09:03, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

I took the information DIRECTLY from the GAME CODE itself. Why are you altering it? The percentages were calculated EXACTLY the way the game determines a Pokemon. Yes I did not take into consideration the lack of "sufficient randomness", but that only accounts for less than +-0.01% of the actual amount and has nothing to do with your "subjective experience". Your "subjective" experience has nothing to do with what the game actually does. In fact, I take great insult knowing that I spent quite a bit of time putting together the technical explination and final tables for you guys to change it to what the game DOESN'T do. I will not fix it, have fun with your subjectivity. Sabresite 07:59, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

As a note, the rarities were NOT backwards, but thanks for making them backwards. I can confirm this, as I have read the code numerous times. The game's if statements are exclusive by doing a check for one column, the last column, then leaving the third with an else statement, hence why it may "seem" backwards. Sabresite 08:04, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Sabre, just leave them. Sure, its like they WANT to have articles with incorrect info. But there is nothing we can do about it. Except make the correct info available elsewhere. Of course we can't tell anyone where it is from here because our links just get erased. The one article that was perfect is now ruined. Good job A magical me. SCV 14:18, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

One little problem...

The English language version calls it honey, can this be edited?Gatogirl This has been taken care of. Sabresite 01:51, 26 Feburary 2009 (UTC)

Duration and Other Pokemon

Some information is incorrect. It does not take exactly ten hours before a Pokemon appears. I have periods of time shorter than this (approx 8 hours) and much longer (although I am not sure how much longer). It may also be of some use to record which other Pokemon can appear on the trees. i.e. Wurmple and one of those cocoon Pokemon. Dark2th 08:27, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I have just found a Pokemon in a tree that I slathered with honey 4 hours ago. So the time is definitely not 10. I have also discovered what may or may not be a glitch. After slathering a tree with honey it is possible to slather it with honey again, but it seems to remove the first slathering of honey. For example, the text box will say - "The bark is slathered with honey, slather the bark with honey?" Check the tree again - "There is a sweet smell in the air, slather the bark with honey?" Has anyone else experienced this? Dark2th 08:27, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Silcoon is the 'cocoon pokemon' I referred to earlier Dark2th 07:38, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

The duration is exactly 6 hours to 23 hours 59 minutes. Sabresite 01:49, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Rarity

According to the game files, the pokemon are arranged in a table. The table for Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum have been posted. The rarity is based on a PRNG algorithm and applied to this table. I also put up the frequency of each combination. To calculate rarity for a pokemon, such as Wurmple, in Diamond/Pearl, you would do the following

( 0.05 × 0.10 ) + ( 0.40 * 0.70 ) = 0.285 or 28.5% Sabresite 01:54, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time trusting these calculations. There is absolutely no way that Munchlax's encounter rate is 20%. I've spent the past few days on Pokémon Platinum slathering Honey on the same five trees and not once have I encountered a Munchlax, and I've only encountered Heracross and Aipom once each. Danieru Lynx 07:43, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, here is a link to the thumb code responsible for these probabilities. [1] If you can find an error in the calculation, please point it out. 021F4F2A- 021F4F42 determine which list the pokemon comes out of and 021F4F60-021F4F96 which pokemon out of that list. SCV 26 February 2009

It seems that under certain circumstances a new list number is not obtained, this definitely affects the probability. I will try to determine what causes that to happen. This effect happens per tree. SCV 27 Febreuary 2009 16:10:50 (UTC)

I figured out the discrepancy between observations and the previous calculation. There was another probability we were missing and it is that the list only changes 10% of the time. So for most people they only have a 2% chance of encountering muchlax. SCV 14:29, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

So if you get a tree that does not have a Munchlax, there is a 10% chance that the list will change, and of that 10% chance, a 20% chance that it will be Munchlax. How would we construct the statistical analysis so that we can get an overall percentage of occurance for each pokemon? Sabresite 18:02, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Because of the nature of how the calculation works, 4 separate lists must be used. I have posted the encounter rates for each scenario. Sabresite 19:24, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

SCV has discovered more information regarding the probabilities. We will need to adjust the information greatly. Sabresite 20:50, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

The Bulbaglitch.

Okay, YouTube. Proof. Give it. TTEchidna 01:58, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

When I have time, I will produce the glitch and make a video. The easiest way to produce it is to save the game using an emulator. Go to locations 0x730C in the save file, (Route 209 Honey Tree), and 0x4730C and change the value to 0x20. Make sure you slathered something on the tree first. Changing the value tells the game to retrieve row 32 in the table, which is beyond the length of the table. The data in that location is 01, making the pokemon Bulbasaur. Sabresite 02:09, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Well that's kinda. Hacking. Is there any way to force it for the actual game? TTEchidna 02:54, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

It is difficult to explain. I will remove it from the article until I have time to explain it in future detail. Sabresite 03:29, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Multiple People Editing At Once

I apologize for reverting some formatting errors, Bulbapedia's site is very slow and choppy. Quite frequently I get a page down error and must repaste what I typed, which then overwrites what other people are changing. Sorry. Sabresite 02:09, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

It does that sometimes. TTEchidna 02:52, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Making sense of the tables.

Could someone please explain to me how this formula works? On the main page, it's worded in an awkward way, and it's rather unclear what it means.

Firstly, from the 4 tables that are given, the first says "Slathering a tree". Does this mean that it is Slathered for the first time, or are these the base values for which the following three tables are derived? I'm asking this, because I'm really doubting that 20% chance of Munchlax the first time that the tree is Slathered, but the article isn't telling me that it's not.

Also, under the "Slathering the same tree" heading, the article mentions that the following three tables are only applicable "if the same tree is slathered more than once in a row". This would mean that if another tree is Slathered after the first is Slathered, then the game reverts back to the first table, meaning that the chances of encountering a Munchlax then becomes 20% again. However, I simply can't believe that Munchlax has a 20% encounter rate - there must be something wrong here.

I'd go through each of the calculations myself, but I really don't have the time at the moment, I have lots of School work to be doing, so could someone clarify the above please? Thanks a lot.--Ggled 18:31, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

As a matter of fact there is more to the calculation and the green value plays a different role than we had first anticipated. There also seems to be a restriction on Munchlax which we were not aware of before. I will adjust ALL of the numbers and tables once SCV has finished rewriting the THUMB/ARM game code in C++.

From what we can gather right now, Munchlax is only available on 4/21 trees, with an encounter rating of 1%. There is also a 10% chance of no Pokemon being on the tree, and for trees where Munchlax may be encountered, there is a 9% chance. This means there will be a total of 2 base tables (Slathering a Tree with Munchlax, and Slathering a Tree without (Munchlax), and 2 sets of Slathering the Same Tree in a row, one with Munchlax, and one without. Sabresite 06:19, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

I have updated the technical information, however not the encounter ratios. I will update those tonight sometime. Sabresite 22:20, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Charting Nothing

I would argue that charting nothing is necessary. People will NOT count the percentages to see if it adds up to 100%, or not. And since it doesn't add to 100% without the "nothing", people will think the numbers are wrong. I suggest that the entries for "No Pokemon Encountered" be represented in some fashion in that chart. Sabresite 07:38, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

I think you mean people WILL count the percentages. Maybe a note at the bottom of each table is enough? SCV 16:41, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, something....Sabresite 17:12, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Munchlax Trees?

The article talks about "trees with Munchlax" and "trees without Munchlax". Is there a list anywhere that says which trees are where?--Purimpopoie 00:35, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

They are unique to each game, and dependent on the player's ID number. I think that is in the article.... — THE TROM — 00:52, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Why was the revision with a link to the munchlax tree calculator undone

As the above section clearly shows people want to know how to find them. SCV 20:03, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

   I'd like to know where a Munchlax Tree Calculator is as well. EliasT 13:51, 18 April 2009 (CST)

Time of the day?

Is the chance of encountering a certain Pokémon affected by what time it is? Only, this morning (on Diamond) about 12-15 of the Pokémon I saw were Combee, and that's supposed to be only 5.5%. Later on in the day, at around 2:00, 11 of them were Silcoon, and that's only supposed to be 1% chance. Is there something we're missing here?--Ggled 13:02, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Were you soft-resetting your game every time you checked the same tree? Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 13:12, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Soft Resetting doesn't change the Pokémon that you encounter (correct me if I'm wrong here), so I don't see how it's relevant. I didn't, by the way.--Ggled 15:28, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Ask Sabresite. He's the one who got all the data for this. Given the preciseness of his figures, I would doubt he missed something as big as that. It hasn't been picked up on any other site either. Given how far we are after the release, I would say not. — THE TROM — 07:42, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough. I can see your logic there. I have really weird luck anyways - it took about 70 soft resets before Mr. Backlot mentioned seeing a Porygon in Trophy Garden o_O Ggled 14:34, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

What's soft-resetting?--Totodilesentret!^{Talk to me.} 14:43, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Start+Select+L+R to reset the game as opposed to using the power switch. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 17:31, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

It's basically resetting the game without manually turning off the power, and then back on again. In DPPt, it's done by pressing L, R, Select and Start all at the same time. Ggled 17:34, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Sources

Could the sources of information about these probabilities be added to the bottom of the page? I would like to read more in-depth information about these probabilities from their original calculations. Yenreb 03:04, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, that is explained in the Technical Mechanics section. Is there anything that you think is missing? SCV 16:38, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Page split

Nothing major here, but considering that we have separate articles for the mechanics behind Hidden Power (and probably other things), I'm suggesting the calculation part of the article is moved to Honey tree calculation, and this article is left to focus on the item. — THE TROM — 22:37, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Muchlax

I think we should say which trees have Munchlax if only 4 of them do. Random Chaos 14:02, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

They're randomly determined at the start of the game, and are different for each one. Therefore, there's no way to tell which 4 will have Munchlax in, so we can't include it in the article.

Oh come on that sucks. Muchlax is harder to get than Heatran. Random Chaos 16:15, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

You could just go on the GTS for it. Ggled 18:20, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

If I had Wifi Random Chaos 19:04, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Wait, so there's only 4 paces to get them just like feebas right? so if I check all trees listed rthen one of those has to be the 90% munchlax tree? I'm really confused about the honey stuff, I still need heracross, too. (sidenote: I hate GTS)--Barakku 02:37, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

They don't change, unlike the Feebas locations. R.A. Hunter Blade 02:42, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Ohh, good to know, thanks. From recent experience with GTS I may be able to get one there...--Barakku 16:38, 7 May 2009 (UTC)