User talk:Weedle Mchairybug

Psst. Capitalize your sentences. Don't capitalize random words that aren't important. Follow the manual of style and good ol' English grammar. And accent that é in Pokémon! TTEchidna 23:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

As TTEchidna said, Capitalize your sentences! And where did you get the idea that Misty was the champion of the Togepi competition? IT WASN'T REAL! It was a trap set by Team Rocket so that they could steal her Togepi for Colonel Hansen. --☆ケンジガール 21:53, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

WOW!!! Though your new, you put up a very good, strong point in arguements! I congratulate you on that! You should start making edits on regular pages, not just talk pages. Good Job!!! --Theryguy512 22:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Errors

I really don't think they are errors, Ash has a long journey that's still going, you can't expect him to remember every moment that happened to him. TheBlazikenMaster 15:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, yeah, but May's was just beginning and the Rubello convention was just after the Fallabor contest, so that same logic can't be applied there. And anyways, it's not that they HAVE to remember everything, but that doesn't mean they should act as though they never heard of it. I mean, that's like forgetting the day of your birth. Besides, how can he forget about a pokemon he owned?!Weedle Mchairybug 15:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

You do realize its just a tv show. So the writers forgot to have him remember something. Thats an error.Emperor's Cookies 15:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok, it fit under error, but just memory error. I still think it's not error as in "senseless". Ok, I am keeping those in the articles as it might look interesting. But I still think the word "forget" is a better way to describe it than "acted like he never heard of...", since that's what's happening, if you act like something never happens the best way to describe it is with the word forget. I am not planning on removing from EP233 or AG072, don't worry. But I still think the word forget is a better way to word it than "acts like he's never heard of". Besides, Ash only had the Primeape for a few episodes, I'm not surprised he forgot about it. TheBlazikenMaster 21:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Misty's Togetic

Ok, u win, just fix the grammar!--KukiTalk 12:17, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

:Done and done. Also, thanks. Weedle Mchairybug 12:24, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Brock: Only character who looks Japanese

WRONG! It's him, Flint, and the Harrison Kids!--KukiTalk 15:09, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Sigh, let me clarify, Brock is the only one of the MAIN characters who looked Japanese. Flint, his siblings, Harrison Kids, Ninetales owner, Suziko, and that Mime jr/Bonsly show director were either side characters or one-shots. If you edited it, I'll revert the edit and make sure I clarified what I was trying to convey Weedle Mchairybug 15:15, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Movie 11

I am going to overlook the fact that you overrode an editorial member's contribution without even paying attention to whether or not it supported your point (for instance, you deleted the paragraph in which I stated that the movies marks Origine Forme and Sky Forme's debuts; how is that controversial?). It is childish conduct, but I am used to it by now.

You should have realized that the content I deleted was all conjecture; I couldn't have very well stated erroneous or unfounded information when I only removed other members' conjecture, could I? It may be true that when the first movie was revealed we had good reason to believe that Palkia would tag along with Dialga, but even back then that was not clearly implied. Since then, Dialga and Regigigas have been shown to have some role in the movie on numerous occasions, whereas Palkia has all but been forgotten. As for the new Pokémon, early toy advertisements led some to believe that the unrevealed Pokémon would pertain to the next generation. Since then, Sky Forme has been unveiled and confirmed to be that very same unrevealed Pokémon, leaving no viable reason to suspect that that speculation could still have merit.

All of the above warranted the deletion of the conjecture from the page as soon as last month. But I have refrained from doing so because I knew that certain members' obstinacy could prove problematic. However, by now circumstances have changed due to the fact that the movie has premiered in an early showing in a limited number of Japanese theaters. We already have a synopsis that may not be full-fledged, but is good enough to remove doubt on the subject of Palkia and new Pokémon: They are nowhere to be seen. --Unown Lord 09:13, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Try not to be so biased...

Even if Hidaka's statement did sound kinda sexist, well, shit, it's true. Have you seen the amount of 34 there is of Pokémon, and not just of the human characters? I'm sure you have. Face it, older fans are complete pervs, and it's not like giving Misty short shorts, May a huge rack, and Dawn a short skirt isn't just as sexist. Heck, you couldn't even PLAY as a girl until Crystal! It's not that they're being sexist; it's that they have the internet and know of all the stuff out there... and so therefore, like in Steamboat Willies, fanservice, fanservice, fanservice.

Anyway, I reworded the statement, hoping to be more NPOV. Now I'm gonna go wash my keyboard off, because I don't wanna start becoming one of those acronym-throwing Wikipedos. TTEchidna 23:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually, if I was being biased, I would have only inserted it into Misty's article, and not even have bothered to insert it in May and Dawns articles. Besides, technically, you can play as a girl before Kris, since Misty was playable in Pokemon Puzzle League. And since Love hina comes to mind, in my mindset, Fanservice = sexist. And anyways, May and Dawn were even MORE Fanservicey than Misty (I go by the definition that it's only fanservicey if the person clearly enjoys doing the scandalous thing, or at least implies the enjoyment [Like the majority of the characters in LH, for example.].). Weedle Mchairybug 23:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I've said this already, but you do not control the definitions of words. Society does. Especially on a wiki, it's important to rely on objective definitions rather than subjective opinions. And even if we go by your definition, Misty clearly enjoyed showing off her body in the Porta Vista Beauty Contest, dressing in that Goldeen swimsuit, and in that mermaid costume, and I don't recall Dawn doing anything "scandalous" on purpose. --PsychoRobo 17:09, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

No, Misty DIDN'T enjoy the Porta Vista Beauty Contest. She said "It's so degrading, but I need the money" when having to do it, which meant that she didn't like showing off like a playboy model. Also, in regards to the Goldeen outfit, Misty ALSO didn't enjoy it either. She said something like "at least they aren't taking notice of me", which implied she didn't really like the situation she was in (much less having to wear that outfit.). The Mermaid Outfit, she didn't really like having to wear it (ESP. in "The Misty Mermaid"), especially considering that the only reason she did the part was because her sisters set her up (BTW, she refused several times, but eventually relented when she realized her sisters needed help in regards to it). Also, the only reason she agreed to wear the outfit in "Cerulean Blues" was to try and calm down Gyarados. that's FAR Different compared to something like... Oh, I don't know, May's clear enjoyment of stripping on the beach, or Kanako Urashima's complete gladness of stripping (and even doing it in front of her brother at one point.

As for what Dawn did that was scandalous, she dressed up as a French Maid (which was a common Japanese Fetish), among other things.Weedle Mchairybug 18:46, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Main series games only--KukiTalk 23:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Dude, who doesn't enjoy going to the beach? Besides, is May supposed to wear her regular clothes and GO SWIMMING? And don't forget, Ash wore those clothes too. TTEchidna 00:56, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I was referring to the swimsuit contest, since THAT was what you referenced. Also, yes, it's a bit impractical for her to wear her regular clothes and go swimming at the same time, but that doesn't mean she should have stripped in a strip-tease fashion, with her brother practically begging for her to stop doing it, and both he and ash being embarrassed. It's not the question of whether they enjoy going to the beach or not, it's whether they enjoying causing a scandal or not. If you try to disrupt this one more time, I WILL end up being forced to post Love Hina Pics to try and prove what exactly I meant by Fanserviced girls enjoying doing scandalous things. Weedle Mchairybug 01:18, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I've come to realize that that's what anime does. They're basically all the same. They make the girls into fanservice. Look at YuGiOh GX. The guys wear respectable uniforms while the girls trot around in mini skirts with huge breasts. Come to think of it, Pokémon is being pretty lenient when it comes to fanservice compared to other animes. Not all of the girls have huge breasts unless they are older women (Lorelei and Prof. Ivy). --☆ケンジガール 01:23, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

May also has the racks as well, which, along with the other things, makes me want to stop it. Weedle Mchairybug 01:29, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Pffsst. You call that a rack? I don't get why people think May's boobs are big. That's just my opinion. --☆ケンジガール 01:32, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Maybe they aren't as big as Prima's, but they are definitely far too large for her age. I mean, ask her side profile pictures if you don't believe me. Weedle Mchairybug 01:33, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Love Hina pics? If I was more of the male Internet user stereotype, I'd jump for joy at the prospect, but at least someone else might garner "enjoyment" out of them. In the meantime, I'll prepare for the event by giving you a picture of Slave Leia (from Star Wars Episode VI) as soon as I'm back on Bulbagarden forums, because obviously it is not fanservice because she obviously did not enjoy it and it did serve a more meaningful purpose than showing off Carrie Fisher's sweet bod.

Crikey, you make such a big deal out of the "stripping" scene. If anything, it was Max's fault for suggesting that it was striptease in the first place, because, oh, maybe changing into swimsuits on the beach is normal? Besides, American cartoons are arguably worse with these kind of jokes, because several episodes have little boys running around naked (Dexter's Laboratory and The Fairly OddParents, as examples). And yes, controversy over children's TV shows have been done to death already in North America, so I guess you're out of a job when it comes to American cartoons. And I suspect (directed at Kenji-girl) that people think May's boobs are big because this is the Internet, where everything is blown out of proportion.

I laughed at your claim that Dawn dressing up as a French maid was scandalous. Okay, so Ash also dressing up as a maid is not scandalous? What about Ash's recent Tarzan outfit (check Bulbagarden's Ash Club for details)? Or are you being sexist against males by suggesting they can't be hot too? --PsychoRobo 15:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Look, I don't enjoy those things anymore than you do. I used that as a way to try and stop you from doing that (mocking me).

Also, everyone else made a big deal out of the striptease as well! And anyways, blame the writers as well, since they set it up as a striptease as well. And also blame Ash for looking embarrased about what he just saw. and anyways, MOST people wear an undershirt when they go to the beach. They DON'T, however, go to the beach in their regular clothes and take them off in front of everyone. also, I barely even WATCH Fairly OddParents (as a matter of fact, my parents, as well as I, avoided that show like the plague for the same reasons they mostly avoid the Simpsons.), and while I used to watch Dexters Laboratory, I started to hate it when they did that musical episode.

and another thing, an entire THREAD was made in regards to how Pokemon was becoming more fetishish and used Dawn's Cheerleader and Maid costumes as an example. I'll eliminate every single sexist action on this planet, male and female alike. Besides, how can I be sexist with my own gender? By being sexist towards males, I'm being sexist towards myself. And anyways, Ash didn't even WANT to wear the Maids outfit, as you can tell by his blushing out of humiliation.

I have warned you that if you don't stop mocking me, I WILL be forced to post those pics if it stops you. And I will act on it, even though I feel as though this is a mistake. I have hated these pics, but they prove my point as to how degrading fanservice is, and most importantly, how the characters in question actually DO enjoy causing this scandal. You have brought this upon yourself...

However, I'll be a bit merciful and delay it until I successfully upload the first part of my video, which, as soon as I download Version 12 of Pinnacle, shouldn't take too long, since the Images in question are ON this video. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean you are allowed to mock me. I mean, think of it this way, if your parents, or your friends (real life friends, I mean), mentioned their dislike of May OR Dawn, would you act the very same way towards them that you act towards me? If the answer is no, take that into account before you try to mock me again.

Weedle Mchairybug 16:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

And that entire sexism thread lost all credibility after its first response, when Blackjack Palazzo claimed she wished to see more male fanservice. And there was another girl that said it was mostly males that argue over this kind of thing, and the girls don't see much of a problem. So much for feminism, eh? Plus, I don't know many males who would willingly cross-dress, besides characters like Harley, James, and Bugs Bunny. Ash's unwillingness to wear it is thus irrelevant. I also don't know what a musical episode of Dexter's Laboratory has to do with the discussion. Please stop throwing non sequiturs around if you wish to be taken seriously.

Oh, you're being merciful? Well, that's just a bit more time to postpone posting Slave Leia pics on your account, then. Anyways, who said I didn't enjoy fanservice? It's so fun to mock.

As for your last question, of course I would still act the same way towards you. Why should I let other people control the way I think? A lot of people don't like Pokemon in my school, so your "peer pressure" argument barely fazes me. Oh, wait, you're jealous, aren't you? You're jealous because I scored with the same Serebii mod that banned you. You can't believe that I could get on her good side while you ended up becoming the laughingstock of Serebii's idiot hunters, and that's why you put the "real life friends" part. Well, maybe if you weren't trying to usurp her position by judging everyone on the forum with your "holier-than-thou" attitude (kind of like Lisa Simpson), then maybe you wouldn't be in the position you are now! P.S. This is becoming increasingly irrelevant to Bulbapedia editing. If you wish to continue, put this on my Bulbagarden or Pokecommunity account (MetaRobo/PorygonSquared, respectively). PsychoRobo 16:48, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Linking to other wikis

When linking to other wikis, please remeber to use {{ }} around the link, not [[ ]]

Thanks. ♪♪Shiny Pachirisu :) ♪♪ 00:38, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Let me explain something to you

Just because I said that it doesn't only apply to Misty doesn't mean you can go and put it on May and Dawn's pages.

The reason we have a page on SOVA, despite being a fan thing, is because it was a big deal. This isn't so much a big deal that caused fans to write hundreds of letters. Infact I doubt that many people even know about it.

We already mention what he said on his page and how some fans find it offensive. We don't need to affiliate the character with it as well. Yes it was a shitty thing to say but we don't need to be reminded of it everytime we visit Misty, May, or Dawn's pages. --☆ケンジガール 11:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Fine, I won't edit the pages, and I'm also sorry for my response on your talk page, while I'm at it. However, I'm only stopping because Hidaka's page already mentioned it. and anyways, as far as I'm concerned, if it doesn't apply to just one person involved, it applies to ALL people involved. So, next time you say something like that, try it in a way that I can understand. Weedle Mchairybug 11:40, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Arceus/Mew dispute

I've put up a full explanation at Talk:Arceus (Pokémon)#Arceus vs. Mew. I don't mean to sound so aggressive, but there truly is no real basis for considering Mew the first. At best, it should be mentioned that the fan community considered it the first, but that was always fanon and never what the games actually claimed.

Again, sorry if I've offended you.KrytenKoro 06:32, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

I also posted my response on that discussion. And also, Porygon MAY have been made later, but then, if it can't be a descendant of Mew, then HOW can Mew be able to transform into it? I mean, they HAD to have used some form of Mew's DNA in order for it to be able to transform into it and it's family (Besides, they used Mew's DNA to create Mewtwo, who's to say they used ALL of the Mew DNA to transform into it? Besides, the pokedex entries hint that the reason why Mewtwo is savage and aggressive is because they repeatedly spliced Mewtwo's DNA, so I'm guessing they may have used his DNA in Grimer/Muk, Castform, and, yes, even the Porygon Family, so in a sense, they are Mewtwo's Children, and thus, in a sense, Mew's Grandchildren. Weedle Mchairybug 11:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Replied on the talk page. As for your comment here, I'm sorry, but it is completely ignorant of any concept of genetics, especially the actual concept of genetic splicing and what DNA does, as well as the actual text of Porygon's Pokedex entries, and the in-game description of how Transform works.

Let me illustrate your basic misunderstanding - a child typically has distinct DNA from two sources ( a mother and a father). You may not know this, but the mother and father generally have completely distinct lineages, and share almost no DNA that all humans don't share - to put it simply, the mother and father are generally not brother and sister, or anything close.

Now, because of this, the child will have DNA from the mother and father. What you are claiming is analogous to saying that the child's father should be able to turn into the child's mother, because the child, his descendant, has DNA from his mother. But this is utter hogwash, and immediately recognizable as lunatic raving. The very use of sexual reproduction in macro-evolution is that it introduces NEW genes into the gene pool.

If transformation were inherent in the species at all, it would be obvious to even the casual observer that it would be the child who could be expected to be able to transform into both the father or mother, as his very nature is to be a collection of both of their DNA.KrytenKoro 05:57, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Okay, first off - you don't get to make ultimatums, that's not how a wiki works. Second off, where in the hell does the D/P Pokedex say that Mew is "believed to be the originator of all Pokémon", thought to "possibly contain the genetic code of every other Pokémon", or able to "learn every TM/HM"? Finally, how could "Arceus being the original one" and "Mew creating ALL Pokemon" ever be reconciled? They're necessarily contradictory!

However, to try and compromise with you without making up fanfiction and being dishonest about the Pokedex, I rewrote the section you keep adding without having removed it. Is this acceptable?KrytenKoro 03:44, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Fine, I thank you for at least keeping the gist of it. BTW, I wasn't lying about the Pokédex entry. As a matter of fact, I have copied and pasted Mew's D/P Dex entry from his article just for you to see it. here it is:

''Because it can use all kinds of moves, many scientists believe Mew to be the ancestor of Pokémon. ''

And to further prove that I'm not lying, I ALSO am going to post a link:

Bulbapedia.Bulbagarden.net/wiki/Mew_(Pokémon)#Pokédex_entries.

Next time you try to accuse me of lying about it, read Mew's D/P pokedex entry first, since it still said that Mew was believed to be the ancestor of pokémon (the fact it said pokémon made it seem like it said all pokémon.).

Also, I tried to reason with you multiple times, but you insisted that it shouldn't be in there, despite the fact that the Dex actually stated it, so I was forced to take drastic measures.

Weedle Mchairybug 10:33, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

YEs, you were incorrect about the Pokedex entry - you claimed it specifically said those things, and it did not. Those were the points in contention, and you keep trying to avoid them. The Dex does not "actually say it", so you're claim that I forced you to keep trying to pass off your speculation as fact is incorrect.

• Specifically:

1. The DP pokedex entry says nothing about TMs/HMs.
2. The DP pokedex entry says nothing about genetics.
3. The DP pokedex entry says nothing about "originating all Pokemon".KrytenKoro 01:05, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Do I LOOK Like I care what the DP pokedex says?! I only care for what ALL of them said. And ANOTHER thing, they may have not explicitly mentioned "TMs/HMs", but the mere fact that Mew's DP pokédex entry said that it can use All kinds of moves implies that it can learn TMs and HMs as well, as well as natural, move tutors, and even moves only available from Metronome. As for Genetics, The closest thing it came to mentioning Genetics was in SSBB's Trophy, and besides which, the mere fact that it can learn transform (which is stated to be the recombining of DNA into the pokemon that matches that DNA) should be enough to prove it's the Ancestor. And for Originating All Pokemon. SO WHAT? The Pokédex entry ALSO didn't say it originated most, some, few, or even only one Pokemon, either. It just said "Ancestor of All Pokemon", and from what I can tell, especially with how people often interperet thing, if it doens't explicitly mention that it's only most, few, some, or only one pokemon that it is an ancestor of, that means it's the ancestor of All Pokemon. Therefore, Mew stated that it's ancestor of pokemon = ancestor of all pokemon.

I also forgot to mention one thing. There's a Significant difference between Mew's transforming into a Pokemon and Ditto's Transforming into a pokémon. Ditto can only transform into a pokemon when it sees it [It's also implied that it can't go by memory], whileas with Mew, it's implied thar Mew can transform into any pokemon without necessarily needing to see it at first (as one of the problems with trying to get Mew in Emerald is that it can transform into pokemon, and in the Anime, it's been shown to transform into pokemon that it hasn't had any contact with, or at the very least not any direct contact [eg, Ho-oh, Taillow, etc.].).

Even IF it's not directly mentioned in the D/P/P Pokedex, we must wait until GSDS comes out (if it comes out) or, assuming that there is one, generation 5 before we say that it's been retconned. Weedle Mchairybug 01:23, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Wow!

In all the time you've been on Bulbapedia, you haven't made a single contribution to the Userspace! That's quite an accomplishment! --ニョロトノ666 22:22, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Userspace? Weedle Mchairybug 22:37, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Its the user page and anything connected with it except talk pages. Jmath 22:41, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh, that. See, it's in red spacing, and I'm not completely sure if I can create one. Weedle Mchairybug 22:42, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

O.O You don't have to create a page... ♪♪Shiny Pachirisu :) ♪♪ 22:44, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Legendary Genders

it said none because Legendary's dont have genders! Mooites 01:55, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Only in the games, though. Maybe you've forgotten, but a Baby Lugia DID appear in the show. If they didn't have genders, please explain how Silver even exists?! Heck, most of the legendaries had multiples in the anime, and if they don't have genders, how can they have multiple species at the same time? Weedle Mchairybug 02:16, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Asexual Reproduction? They are hermaphrodites? There's more methods of reproduction than male/female sexual reproduction, you know. PsychoRobo 22:11, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

good point. Mooites 02:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Mooites, this is directed at PsychoRobo, so don't think it seems like i'm lecturing you. PsychoRobo, ONE. Next time you have to respond to my usertalk, or any talk page for that matter, place it AFTER the recent poster. TWO. Asexual Reproduction requires budding, for the most part. THREE, Hermaphrodites change genders (meaning, they change from female to male just to reproduce. So, in one sense, the Marril family are hermaphrodites.), so they would still need to mate in order to reproduce the same effect. Weedle Mchairybug 22:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

First, to respond to three. The topic was whether legendaries had genders or not. Just because they need to mate doesn't mean they have defined genders. And to two, budding is not the only form of asexual reproduction. In fact, many creatures such as starfish and especially plants can reproduce with a fragment of the parent. PsychoRobo 00:06, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I think Budding involves the separation of the original host, so Starfish actually DO bud to reproduce. Also, Plants technically require pollination in order to reproduce (the stigma is the male plant, the phyla is the female, the pollen goes to another plant, they make eggs known as seeds, get my drift?), so technically, it's not asexual reproduction. Weedle Mchairybug 00:10, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Plants can regenerate asexually with one of their body parts removed, though. It's not their main option, but it is an option. PsychoRobo 14:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Edits

Please stop doing it. We can discuss it on the talk page. Just no more edits. Jmath 22:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Fine, But the thing still stands. Now, if you want to add a footnote that this happened before the release of Platinum on the edits page (or request me to do so), fine, because that way, we'll have middle ground. I can say it's technically a out of order defeat, and you can say that it was before Platinum was released. Weedle Mchairybug 22:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Anyway, where did you get that the order is changed? It isn't anywhere else here. Jmath 22:13, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Tv.com. The Platinum release thread. Specifically:

"Hearthome Gym is now the Third gym, Veilstone is the Fourth, and Pastoria is the Fifth

How dumb is it for Fantina not to have Drifblim. Her dress is best on it, and her gym in the anime was. "

"Oh, I didn't even notice the Gym order switch!

Yay, in Diamond and Pearl Fantina uses Drifblim in Super Contests, and since her dress is based on one I guess they'll let her keep that Driflblim. Now while the Drifblim/Duskull switch is odd, why in the world did they replace her Gengar with a Haunter? Just becuase she's no longer the fifth Gym they downgraded her Pokemon?

Though I do agree with the evolving of Gardenia's Cherubi into a Cherrim, hopefully Dawn will get one in the anime."

The Quotes were from SPDShadowRanger and Pikachu315111, respectively

Weedle Mchairybug 22:23, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you sure what's written there can be taken as fact? How can some guy know that when the game hasn't even been released yet. Even Bulbapedia is not mentioning it. At least edit it when the game's released. Jmath 22:26, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Considering how even Serebii (The webmaster, not the pokemon) is playing through Platinum as we speak, I'd say it already HAS been released. If serebii updated the site to include the changes in Roark's pokemon/Puzzle, It can be fairly certain that these others have played the game. Weedle Mchairybug 22:30, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Then what is September 13 for? Some guys get special privileges? Jmath 22:34, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I just changed the release date, and mentioned why in it's talk page. Weedle Mchairybug 22:35, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

If you could make the footnote for that trivia, go ahead. Jmath 22:41, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Style

Please read the manual of style and familiarize yourself with English grammar before you edit too much more. Your recent edits to legendary birds spelled Pokémon as pokemon, used "it's", among as possessive, and has weird capitals all over the place, among other errors. --Martonimos_{((Argh|Blargh))} 20:57, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Delete?

Do you want your user page deleted?Can I put the tag on it? another user generously made one for you--DCM_{((Nag at Me!Edits))}

Speculation

Please don't put speculation in main articles; just put it on the talk page. Dialgarules 01:30, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but you really have to make sense on this site. You put Poké-ball when it SAYS IN THE WELCOME THINGY to say Poké [space] Ball! When you say that Meowth "prefers to walk around" it could mean a lot of things. You could say that it likes to be out of its Poké [space] Ball. How about you take a quick look at this? Dialgarules 00:39, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Pokémon Heroes Subtitles

There are such things that are called, oh maybe you've heard of them, ERRORS. I've listened to it several times and it does not sound like "I'm sorry" to me. Sometimes the people making the subtitles mess up. Also the whole Misty catching Totodile thing doesn't float. That's a matter of opinion and making speculations because of the way the balls were thrown. Don't put any of these things on Totodile's page again.--ケンジのガール 10:52, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Ok, but then again, technically, several other things like the Major events section, Trivia, and Errors section technically shouldn't appear in those pages either, since it's kinda speculation in and of itself, no matter how it's worded. Heck, the entirety of Bulbapedia's articles are speculation. Weedle Mchairybug 13:42, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Anime abilities

Please do not add unconfirmed abilities to anime Pokémon pages. It doesn't matter if the only ability for a Totodile is Torrent, or if the only ability for a Larvitar is Guts. Unless it is confirmed in words in the anime, the ability stays as Unknown. The unconfirmed ability removal was started by Politoed666 an EB member. - Kogoro | Talk to me | 04:34, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

If that's the case, should we eliminate the majority of Psyduck's wins (or participations in battles in other words?), or heck, Pikachu's Participation in Round 2 of the Saffron Gym battle? I mean, they never explicitly said in the anime "I choose Pikachu"/"Pikachu, GO!" or "Psyduck, I choose you!" those times (if anything, the opposite is true, as with Psyduck, it pops out when she's choosing Staryu, Starmie, or some other pokemon, and Ash tried to tell Pikachu to avoid battling Kadabra.), and thus is the same thing, as far as I'm concerned (I also posted this for Politoed666 on Maverick Nate's talk Page.). Weedle Mchairybug 04:57, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Then understand what she meant to say and not what she literally said. Psyduck is used in the anime. Torrent is not. Pikachu is used in the anime. Guts is not. Abilities that are not mentioned and do not ever appear should not be put on anime pages. IIMarckus 05:04, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Even IF the ability is the only thing it's got?! I mean, common sense should dictate the fact that, if it's the only ability it can ever have, it is to be included in the abilities section, REGARDLESS if it's stated in the anime or not. Besides, Abilities ARE used as well (they activate under certain conditions). Weedle Mchairybug 05:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

The anime and games barely match up at the best of times. You might as well be adding “Based on the moves such‐and‐such knows, it is probably between levels 34 and 40” to pages. Nothing suggests that the Totodile in the anime has Torrent. IIMarckus 05:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

On the case of the ability needing to be mentioned in words, how else would an ability be confirmed? Misty's Psyduck popping out of it's Poké Ball and battling is visual, so it's obvious without any words. It's rather hard to not notice the flash of light come from Misty's pack, then Psyduck standing near her. With abilities, it's a little less black & white. Unless someone like Brock says something like "Totodile's using its ability, Torrent!" we're not able to know that it's actually Torrent activating or not. I hope you understand now. - Kogoro | Talk to me | 05:41, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Grammar

The first letter of every sentence is capitalized, and Pokémon is spelled with an é and an uppercase P. You've been here long enough to know that, so you should have gotten it the first time. ^Maverick_Nate 15:45, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Please, please starting using better grammar. Stop making so many run-on sentences. And stop capitalizing words that don't need to be like dub. Only capitalize the first word in the sentence, Pokémon names, character names, anything with Poké in front of it, and proper nouns. Also you use whileas in your sentences A LOT. Whileas is not a word. If you want, but really not needed, put while as. But you really don't need it. Just say while. And don't over use those parenthesis (). You use them way too much. And try not to add these extra words like merely, actually, or clearly unless absolutely needed. Thank you. --ケンジのガール 06:05, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Ironically

Please don't over user the term 'ironically'. Thanks, --RexRacer -talk 15:52, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

"Focusing"

There is a difference between an episode focusing on a particular character, and a particular character supporting them. For episode 232? That is not an episode focusing on Misty. Brock? Yes. Look a little more closely at these roles, then decide who it's focused on. -Sketch 21:01, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, actually it's focused on both. You see, if it wasn't for Misty, Brock would have become the Ninetale's owner's reincarnate, and Ash would have also completely fallen for the deception, and Brock would also have never figured out that the Ninetales in question was just trying to relive it's memories of it's own trainer, so it's also focused upon in there. Now, if you want "supporting", Ash is a good example, He didn't initially think about it being a trick/illusion made by Ninetales, even claiming Misty was paranoid, and only started to believe when Ash saw Brock go through her.). Weedle Mchairybug 21:06, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Just because Misty figured out what Ninetails was doing doesn't mean it's a Misty focused episode. Stop trying to look for any little thing that makes Misty the focus of the episode. Like 133. Pikachu and Meowth were also the focal points of the episode so why didn't you think of adding Ash and Team Rocket as focuses. Because they are not. The focuses were the Pokémon. Not Misty. --ケンジのガール 00:28, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, in regards to EP133, it's because Meowth and Pikachu already have their OWN episode focusing templates, so adding in Jessie James Ash or Team Rocket's episode focusing templates would have been pointless.

And anyways, she didn't merely just "Figure it out", she tried to warn Ash and especially Brock for a significant portion of the episode. See, anything a main character does that's significant to the episode as well as focuses on them for the majority of the time is a "episode focused on so-and-so" episode in and of itself, and Contests/Gym Battles and even Captures aren't enough. I mean, Jessie, for instance, won a ribbon in the episode where Ash beat fantina, was this a Jessie-oriented episode? no, because she was barely even focused on [in fact, unless I'm mistaken, which I probably am, i think the contest was actually not even shown until after Ash won the battle] the episode Misty Meets her Match was a similar scenario.). Now, if I added in the template for episode 001, then yes, your accusations would be legitimate, correct, and justified.

It doesn't matter anyways, as I have already completed the test anyways (Ash:40, Misty:46, maybe Ash:40, Misty:45 now.), and this was actually a test to see if Ash was truly the central character (the central character would usually have most of the entire show focused on him/her. As he didn't exceed Misty, he's not really a central main character.). the only part Misty had in it was to see whether she was actually equal to Ash, or rather, to set a fair comparison between the characters to have it be a fair test (I can't use Brock or Tracey, because that would be a no contest, and thus, an unfair advantage on Ash's part.). I also plan on doing the same thing with Ash and May in regards to AG, and Ash and Dawn in DP as well.

On a side note, I also did it to statistically find out which of the girls was actually close to being Ash's equal (I earlier speculated Misty, but I found out that she actually exceeded Ash), and I only did it because I have certain doubts of Dawn actually being equal to Ash (since I researched it, and noticed initially that Misty seemed closer to equality to Ash than May and Dawn were). Weedle Mchairybug 01:08, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Just because Togepi doesn't have a focusing category yet doesn't automatically make Misty the character of focus. News flash, Ash is the main character of the show not Misty. And there is WAY MORE THAN 40 episodes focusing on Ash. As for the female character that is Ash's equal, I believe it's Dawn. For someone who's been in the series for 107 episodes, she sure had a significant amount of episodes focusing on her. Maybe not as much as Misty, but Misty was around for 250 plus episodes. At the rate the show is going, Dawn will probably have more episodes than Misty. I know you might not like to hear that, but it's the truth. --ケンジのガール 01:15, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

in regards to Togepi, if you are talking about Tanks a lot, it's because Misty pretty much organized the attack among other things. As for your claims that Ash is focused upon more than Misty (and more than 40 episodes), that's not even close to a true statement. I already did the analysis of all the episodes I could, outrightly ignoring those that are completely unknown. Also, Most of the Johto episodes didn't even focus on Ash at all (and also didn't focus on Misty, Brock, OR Team Rocket), Instead, it focused on COTDs with even Ash being nothing more than the Background, so, in all reality, Ash isn't the central character you think he is. If anything, it's you whose being more biased. I was trying to make it as fair as I can. There were even Gym matches that barely even focused on Ash at all, despite his participating in them (Case in point: Misty Meets her Match.) And also, the majority of the captures he made in the Kanto Saga either had him sharing the spotlight (Ash Catches a Pokémon, which not only dealt with Ash's captures, but Character Development from Misty as well, since a significant part of the episode dealt with her trying to cope with Caterpie despite her fear of bug-types/bugs.), or was never even in the spotlight in the first place (Charmander and the Stray Pokemon, as that episode dealt with Brock trying to help Charmander and all that, among other things, and Ash pretty much took Charmander.).

And also, I counted the episode listings thus far in regards to Dawn-centric episodes, and out of the 107 episodes thus far, only 20 episodes were actually focused on Dawn (see, in order for it to be a lot for a girl who has been in for 107 episodes, it needs to be, oh... 40 episodes in that range at least.). Misty had more by this time (7 more by the halfway point, and we just went by the halfway point already, as the 12th movie trailer implied that the upcoming 12th movie will be the last DP series movie.). Weedle Mchairybug 01:41, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

This is the problem I have with your counting. Obviously there are others who do not agree that characters in certain episodes have "focus". Therefore your "statistics" aren't entirely accurate. You can say that "Oh, this character is the focus in this episode so that gives them this many episodes..." and so forth...that doesn't make it true. -Sketch 01:48, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Since others seem to not agree amongst themselves, that also means that even THEIR views on what's "Focus" isn't entirely accurate either. And anyways, if that's the case, then Ash never really had much focus in the Leagues, even though those league episodes were listed as episodes focused on him. It's no different. Weedle Mchairybug 01:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Misty wasn't the one who orginized the plan in Tanks A lot. From what I remember, it was mostly Team Rocket's idea. You give Misty WAY TOO MUCH credit for things. --ケンジのガール 02:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Like how you gave too much credit to Ash or Dawn? you don't seem to be getting this, even without Tanks a Lot, she still had more ACTUAL character-centric episodes than Ash anyhow, and had more character-centric episodes than Dawn, anyways, even by range. And hey, what about the part about Entei at your own risk being a Brock centric episode just because his Foretress evolving, even though there were episodes where a main characters pokemon evolved even though said main character wasn't even the focus of the episode ("March of the Exeggutor Squad" says hi, since the episode was actually a Misty-centric episode by all definitions, and yet Ash's Charmeleon evolved, despite his barely even being out of the background.). Weedle Mchairybug 02:17, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Because Ash is the absolute main character of the show. And you only so far counted the original series episodes. What about Advanced and DP? You can't possibly believe Misty has more character focused episodes than Ash. And as for Entie At Your Own Risk, it does automatically a character focused episode when one of their Pokémon evolves. There Pokémon accidentally wondering off doesn't. And you say that its Misty focused because Togepi got inside the tank but refuse to acknowledge Ash and Team Rocket for the very same reason.

Personally, I think your a bit Misty obsessed and are looking for any reason to label Misty the focus of an episode. Please come to the realization that Misty was not the main focus of the series and that Ash was, and still is. --ケンジのガール 02:27, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

No, he ISN'T the absolute main character. Also, I counted the original series episodes because I just wanted to focus on whose the more equal female. And anyways, since you said "Original Series", that's because it's three different series in Japan, meaning, trying to compare is ridiculous beyond belief. I mean, it's like trying to say Ash was more popular than May in the Original series, it's silly. As for the whole thing about evolution=character-focus episode, no it doesn't. In order for it to truly be a character-centric episode, the character in question must have actual focus for more than 50% of the entire episode. As Brock wasn't even focused on for most of the episode, evolution or not, it's not an actual "Brock-centric episode".

Also, I'm not misty-obsessed (aside from wanting to want her to return and working to make sure i do that, of course.). Believe me, If I WAS truly what you had described me, I would have labeled EP001, and absolutely every single episode Misty was in for that matter [even that brief cameo she had in the Hoenn Conference), as being a Misty-centric episode just because she's in it. And anyways, even if she wasn't, Ash wasn't either. I mean, I could list a few episodes that didn't focus on ANY of the main characters at all, like the majority of the Johto saga (The Xatu episode didn't focus on Ash, the Sunflora Vileplume episode didn't focus on Ash, the the Red Gyarados arc didn't focus on Ash [if it focused on anyone, it was Lance], etc. etc.). Weedle Mchairybug 03:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, he is. Misty and the others are main characters but the anime basically revolves around Ash. ESPECIALLY in the original series in which you keep insisting Misty is the center of the series. What did Misty do? Was it Misty who competed in the Gym Battles? Was it Misty who competed in the Pokémon League? Was it Misty who was deciding where they were heading next? She was basically a character like Brock, Tracey, and Max are. One of Ash's friends who follows him and really doesn't do anything that greatly impacts the direction of the series. This does not mean that they are not important but they are basically behind Ash and are not his equal in anyway. The beginning of the Japanese openings never said "Satoshi, Kasumi, and Takeshi". They always said "Satoshi". It wasn't until the Diamond and Pearl that it was changed to "Satoshi and Hikari". It was the Advanced Generation were they decided to share the main point of the series with another character, May.

You seem to be misunderstanding what I meant. I didn't mean every single episode is Ash focused. I'm saying that the anime in general is Ash focused.

To Bulbapedia's standards, an episode in which a main character catches a Pokémon, evolves a Pokémon, or releases a Pokémon is an automatic focus on a particular character. Regardless of what you think.

Yes, you are indeed Misty obsessed if you believe that she was more important of a character than Ash is. Even I don't say that about Tracey. If Misty was indeed the most important character of the series than why isn't she in it anymore? Why did the producers decide to keep Brock and not her?

So are you trying to tell me that what ever happened after the original series doesn't matter? That it doesn't matter that Ash continued to be in more episodes after Misty's departure. Get a clue. Ash is the center of the anime followed by Dawn and May then the other characters, which includeds Misty. Of course Team Rocket is up their with May and Dawn as the opposing side to the heroes. You need to except that. Just because Misty has a lot of fans doesn't make her more important in the series than Ash is. You are being way too baised in your decisions. --ケンジのガール 03:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, he is. Misty and the others are main characters but the anime basically revolves around Ash. ESPECIALLY in the original series in which you keep insisting Misty is the center of the series. What did Misty do? Was it Misty who competed in the Gym Battles? Was it Misty who competed in the Pokémon League? Was it Misty who was deciding where they were heading next? She was basically a character like Brock, Tracey, and Max are. One of Ash's friends who follows him and really doesn't do anything that greatly impacts the direction of the series. This does not mean that they are not important but they are basically behind Ash and are not his equal in anyway. The beginning of the Japanese openings never said "Satoshi, Kasumi, and Takeshi". They always said "Satoshi". It wasn't until the Diamond and Pearl that it was changed to "Satoshi and Hikari". It was the Advanced Generation were they decided to share the main point of the series with another character, May.

Actually, she did greatly impact the series, as if it wasn't for her, Ash would have DIED. Since you guys are saying that he IS the Anime, then, if it wasn't for her, the anime would have ended right then and there. Besides, the only time relating to battles where the focus was undeniably on Ash was in the Leagues (The Gyms are debatable, as the Gym episodes seemed to focus more on the characters appearing than on Ash himself, or in the case of the Rudy Gym Episode, focused almost exclusively on Misty.). Besides, the point of the poll was how much screentime she really got compared to the Girls, and to be honest, I wasn't even anticipating the results to be as high as it was.

You seem to be misunderstanding what I meant. I didn't mean every single episode is Ash focused. I'm saying that the anime in general is Ash focused.

You said he was the "Absolute" main character, which, according to Webster, means everything. which, taking that definition into account, would imply that Absolutely every millisecond of every episode would be focused on Ash, which it really wasn't.

To Bulbapedia's standards, an episode in which a main character catches a Pokémon, evolves a Pokémon, or releases a Pokémon is an automatic focus on a particular character. Regardless of what you think.

Regardless if the episode focused 90% more on a Main Character other than Ash and Ash himself got only 10% when the capture/evolution/release episode was made (Like in the Charmander episode, even though Ash caught Charmander, it was more focused on Brock, as he was the one who reacted first to Damian's neglect, he's the one who cared for Charmander the most, he was the one who got extremely worried about Charmander when it left upon recovery to try and reunite with Damian. All Ash did throughout the episode was capture it [and, according to Brock, checked it's tail.].). That's crazy! I mean, Misty caught Psyduck, and I'll be the first to admit that the episode of it's capture barely even focused on her. If it even focused on anyone, it was Officer Jenny and Nurse Joy, which was a major reason as to why I didn't even include it.

Yes, you are indeed Misty obsessed if you believe that she was more important of a character than Ash is. Even I don't say that about Tracey. If Misty was indeed the most important character of the series than why isn't she in it anymore? Why did the producers decide to keep Brock and not her?

Actually, I wasn't even thinking Misty was more important than Ash when I did this test. I just was doing it to measure the amount of character centric episodes Misty got in comparison to Ash (As well as the females in comparison to Ash as a whole.). heck, to be honest, I didn't even anticipate that Misty would get more episodes than Ash (The least I could predict was probably Misty: 45% Ash: 65%, if not 50/50.). The only reason why I had gotten the results to be 40:46 for Ash and Misty was because I didn't realize that someone had already listed the Johto Conference episodes as being Ash centric. Besides, if I was truly that which you described me as, I would have posted every single episodes that Misty ever appeared in as being a "Misty Centric" episode just because she appeared (Which I didn't and I actually gave reasons for why the episodes were focused on Misty or Ash.).

So are you trying to tell me that what ever happened after the original series doesn't matter? That it doesn't matter that Ash continued to be in more episodes after Misty's departure. Get a clue. Ash is the center of the anime followed by Dawn and May then the other characters, which includeds Misty. Of course Team Rocket is up their with May and Dawn as the opposing side to the heroes. You need to except that. Just because Misty has a lot of fans doesn't make her more important in the series than Ash is. You are being way too baised in your decisions.

No I wasn't. And anyways, if Ash was truly the center of the show as you claim, please explain to me why the writers actually considered replacing Ash twice. You know exactly what I mean, the special Raikou: The Legend of Thunder was released midway through Johto, where Ash wasn't even in that special, period, much less the Main Character, and some fans even stated that the special was a prototype for a series that wouldn't have involved Ash at all. Later, they revealed a Poster advertizing for a DP anime that had Dawn, Dawn, and Dawn alone on it, absolutely no sign of Ash on it, period. Some of the fanbase thought they were actually replacing Ash for the series because of that (and Dogasu even admitted that the reasoning behind the belief was legitimate). Now granted, they decided to keep Ash on, but the mere fact that they even thought of that special and making that Poster in that way implies that the writers felt that even Ash was expendable, which implies that, even back in the original series, Ash wasn't the star of the show (The writers wouldn't even THINK of doing the Raikou special if they felt that Ash was truly the star of the show.). So who's being more biased now? Weedle Mchairybug 14:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

You know Weedle, Ash IS the main character of the show. That doesn't mean he has to get the focus in every episode. It's on his goals that the anime revolves around not on any other characters. Its been like that since the beginning of the series. Ash always seems to be there when everyone else isn't. And the part about Misty saving Ash, do you really think a main character would die? That's never going to happen. Sure they may be life-threatening moments but they would never die.

Naruto is a perfect example of being the main character but not given the focus in every episode. Its just like that with Ash. Jmath 15:38, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I really don't think your experiment should have been done in the mainspace--RexRacer -talk 15:53, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Technically, he did die, twice. In the episode "The Tower of Terror", Haunter took Ash and Pikachu's souls out of their bodies after they caused the Chandelier to fall on them. The second time was in the first movie, where, after Ash got in the way of Mewtwo and Mew's attack, he turned to stone, couldn't awaken, and the only reason he was even alive now was because of the tears and he was, both clinically and truly, up to the point of the tears, dead. So, yes, they did "Kill" Ash.

Anyways, not focusing on him is one thing, as there were plenty of episodes in the original series (a bit too much if you really think about it, even WITHOUT Misty), that didn't actually focus on him. No, my point was they not only were he was not focused upon in the The Legend of Thunder special, but he didn't even appear in it, period. A similar thing happened when they revealed that they had plans of making a DP Anime. They unveiled a poster of it, and the way they unveiled Dawn for the first time ever made it seem as though she was not only replacing Ash, but that Ash was NOT going to be appearing in the anime. That's my point. I mean, think about it, Even IF the writers didn't give Ash the focus in every single episode, if they felt that Ash was the Be-all-end-all of the show, why would they do a special that didn't even have a cameo from Ash, or a Promotional Poster for DP that focused on Dawn alone, and made it seem as though Ash was going to leave the Anime, and Dawn would take up the mantle of the star of the show. I mean, in the DP poster's case, it was one of the biggest discussions at the time. Those, to me, implied that the writers viewed even Ash as expendable.

As for that comment for RexRacer, care to suggest where else I could put this experiment then? Weedle Mchairybug 16:02, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Sure at the time of the poster, people may have thought Ash was going to be replaced but the writers never specifically stated it. They may have been referencing the fact that a new girl is going to play a important role in the anime not as in being the only one. And Ash could not be in the Raikou special since he was at Hoenn at the time and the special happened in Johto. And you can't say from one incident that Ash is expendable. Again, I state the example of Naruto. There have been episodes in which he hasn't appeared at all.

Sure Ash may have kinda "died" but he always came back almost immediately instead of staying dead. Which means a lot. Jmath 16:14, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

No, The Raikou Special actually took place (And AIRED in Japan, don't bring Chronicles into it) between Hatching a Plan, and Dues and Don'ts. And it wasn't a chronicles episode (Heck, Pokemon Hoso hadn't even been aired yet.). They even referenced several parts involving the special in the Johto League when Ash fought Jackson/Vincent.). As for referencing a new girl, They had a poster showing a new character named May and they had Ash with her as well when it was first unveiled, so that cannot be it.

As for Naruto, were these main episodes, or were these episodes from a spinoff series similar to Hoso/Chronicles? Weedle Mchairybug 16:31, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Okay whatever. That doesn't mean that one special is enough to disprove Ash's status. The characters of the special hasn't been given a major appearance ever since then except Vincent but he appeared for one episode anyway. And for the poster thing, Dawn is kinda more important than May was. In all the DP movies, she is given equal importance with Ash unlike May who was only given importance in 1 movie.

And the Naruto episodes were the main ones. I don't know if there were spinoffs but it doesn't matter. Jmath 16:43, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I think that a member of BMGf by the name of Rhyperior pointed out that it was Ash who saved Alamos/The world in Movie 10, and that Dawn ultimately took the back seat, anyways (The only remotely important thing that she did within the movie was save Ash) as it was Ash who told Pikachu and Pachirisu to reactivate the device, according to him, thus saving the world/Alamos, and he also scolded Palkia. Also, in the Shaymin Movie, other than the fact that she and brock tried to stop the Glacier (which even then, they weren't even the ones who actually stopped it, it was Regigigas), she didn't really do much. I mean, did she pair up with Ash and the two of them together, along with Shaymin, Muten, and Giratina, utterly defeat Zero? No, Ash was the one who ended up stopping him once and for all. So, in actuality, she actually had the same role May did, meaning she never was important to begin with. And, arguably, May wasn't given any importance in any movies, considering the fact that the climax of the 9th movie had her act like a total coward and didn't even attempt to save Manaphy (Instead, it was Ash who ended up saving the day, as usual.). So, in any case, I still say that Ash was expendable, as the character didn't appear, and the special, according to many, was a test to see what Audiences would feel, which implies that they had plans to replace Ash. Plus, the Poster, not to mention. Weedle Mchairybug 16:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Ash and Dawn were both on the tower activating the music device not Ash alone. It wasn't just Ash's Pikachu but Dawn's Pachirisu that also helped in it. In the Giratina movie, both Ash and Dawn went to the Reverse World not just Ash alone. She interacted with Shaymin almost as much as Ash. And how could you say May wasn't given any importance in the 9th movie? Its not about how she acted. A main plot point in the movie was May interacting with Manaphy and treating it like its mother. Whatever she did in the movie near the end doesn't matter since their relationship was shown for a major portion of the movie.

And like I said before, the writers haven't made any move to remove Ash from the story. The special is a seperate entity with its characters almost never appearing again in the anime. They may have looked to have tried a few attempts to remove him but the fact that they keep bringing Ash back show that he IS important. Jmath 17:46, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Sigh, look, if you want to mention this to anyone, tell it to Rhyperior, assuming you are also a member of BMGf, all I did was just quote him. As for the part about the Reverse World, I know they both were in the Reverse world in the first visit, but during the second visit, it was Ash, and Ash alone who defeated Zero once and for all (Dawn was stuck trying to stop the glacier that, in the end, only Regigigas was able to stop, remember?). I mean, the summary of that movie even stated this.

As for your point as to how she raised and interacted with Manaphy in the movie, if the same deal with Misty interacting with Togepi wasn't even considered even remotely important despite some episodes focusing on Togepi, then, Titular pokemon or not, her interacting with Manaphy isn't important either.

As for thinking he's important, so what, Brock stays on the show for barely as long as Ash has, and he's not even as important as him, so Episode lengths aren't a detemining factor. And anyways, in order for someone to be a central character, not only do they NOT replace the character, they also are unable to even think about replacing it (Which, at least twice, they did think of replacing him.). Weedle Mchairybug 17:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Ash hasn't been replaced in the main anime. That's what matters not some random special. The anime is more important than the Chronicles or the raikou special. Its even more imortant than the movies. I know Brock has been there for a good portion of the series but he doesn't do that much anyway. This is Ash's story not anyone else's since he is in every episode.

Misty has interacted with Togepi to what extent in the movies? She practically just holds it for a major portion of the movies. May did a lot with Manaphy. It also helps that Manaphy is the titular Pokémon for the movie.

Let's see, she fed it, she discovered some of it's metronome abilities, had it fight against Pikachu at one point, heck, her Togepi was also integral to defeating Colonel Hanson and reclaiming the Togepi Paradise. Besides, if we want to get technical, what did May actually do with it. She also, for the most part, held it, and heck, when it got kidnapped, what did she do? just stand there!

They may not have done it, but they have certainly thought about it. I mean sure, they didn't replace him, but the point was they thought about replacing him. And anyways, considering how they referred to that special in the main series, anyways, it's a main series episode in and of itself. Weedle Mchairybug 18:21, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I am talking about the movies. Misty hasn't done anything with Togepi in a movie. Sure Togepi has had its share of screentime in the anime but only in a few episodes. Out of the entire Johto season, Togepi might have had only less than 10 episodes that truly concentrate on it. It did nothing for the rest.

And as long as Ash isn't replaced and keep appearing in every episode, he is the main character. Jmath 18:28, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Just so you guys know, the fact that this conversation is taking place is hilarious. I don’t even see why we have these categories that are almost solely based on opinion; it’s not as if we don’t have enough categories already (over two thousand). IIMarckus 19:08, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, in the Movies case, I can name one thing it did. It was implied that Togepi was the one who freed Zapdos and Moltres, as we saw it doing that "metronome" arm wave thing when Tracey told everyone to get down in regards to the whole Fire, Water, and Electricity combinations = an explosion. (In case you don't recall that scene, it's because 4Kids cut the scene out when they localized the film.). Besides, what did May do with Manaphy, anyways? I mean, she didn't battle with it (which is what the fanbase thinks of when they say "doing anything" in regards to a character.). And even IF Ash is the main character, the template already listed Brock, Misty, May, Dawn, and even the likes of Tracey, Max, and Todd as main characters, so either way, he's not THE main character (He's only A main character.). Weedle Mchairybug 20:55, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Again I state, as long as Ash keeps appearing in every episode in the main anime, he is the main character. Once he gets replaced, at least for a few episodes, then I will agree with you. Jmath 08:17, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

The reason

The reason why Brock, Tracey, and Misty had information about them getting replaced is because a staff member from the show actually explained the situation. The Dawn replacing Ash thing is all fan speculation and no one from the show EVER said that they were considering replacing Ash. --ケンジのガール 21:52, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

So What?! The GSDS article was still fan speculation in and of itself, and yet you freely chose to keep it on despite that. Heck, the whole Misty issue was actually placed into Misty's article BEFORE Masamitsu Hidaka's revalation. Weedle Mchairybug 21:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Edit War

Thank goodness you guys somehow resolved it...under normal circumstances, you both would be blocked, depending on the amount of edits against...keep that in mind next time... ^ht14 14:02, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

I was just trying to put that out due to the fact that the circumstances of whether capturing them was the cause of the events of the second movie or if it was just territorial disputes (since the film implied that both were the cause.), and besides which, none of the Other times a Legendary bird was captured did a weather anamoly occur, which I pointed out with the events of Jack Walker capturing that Zapdos and riding it, as well as the fact that, other than the lake being almost a biological hazard, it's near-death didn't impact the weather. Jmath had to insist that they controlled the weather just because Lawrence III set the chain of events in motion (Even though Zapdos explicitly told Pikachu that it was conquering Fire Island, which definitely implied that Territorial disputes were a main cause of the events.) - unsigned comment from Weedle Mchairybug (talk • contribs)

It doesn't matter. We resolved it. Jmath 14:13, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Pokémon

Pokémon is not spelled "pokemon", it's "Pokémon". Chocolate (Chat with Me) 23:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure if you should changed Haunter, but if you were to do it, you msut remember to chang it on Ash's page to be consistence.--^☆Tavisource 00:09, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Your trivia

The fact that multiple admins have reverted your edits to High Touch should be an indication that it is not needed. Please stop adding the information, as it is not relevant to anything. --PAK Man ^Talk 22:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

That trivia

Let's put it this way...Take a small 5-6 year old kid. Ask him/her to do some advanced mathematics. Do you really expect the kid to suddenly do it. He just won't understand what you're saying to him. Does that make him disobedient??? Same with Psyduck. I don't remember any time where Psyduck actually battled with any determination to win. Its just basically clueless and once it gets a headache, it just releases its power. Chimchar also doesn't fall in the disobedient category. Jmath 14:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

It's disobedient, no matter whether it's intentional or not. Besides, if you want to get technical, Chimchar, during the events of Chim-Charred, was very similar to Psyduck, and yet is also listed in it's trivia section as being the second fire type belonging to Ash that disobeyed him (and fourth of Ash's Pokemon overall to disobey him), the first being Charizard. Weedle Mchairybug 15:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

It's not disobedient because of ignorance, it's disobedient because of stupidity. That's different. -Sketch 15:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Were you talking to me or to Jmath? BTW, were you for the part of relocating of that trivia to it's own bit? Because it was still disobediance, therefore, Dawn's only the second main character other than Ash to have a disobedient pokemon, regardless of whether it's clueless or deliberate. Weedle Mchairybug 15:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I know I'm just getting involved because of RC watching, but my two cents is--who cares? Will this "(Character) is the (n)th person shown to have a Pokémon, in this case (whoever), disobey" format continue for ALL disobedient Pokés? If so, that seems...kinda unnecessary. -- evkl _{(need to talk?)} 15:57, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, I guess you might as well remove most of those things in Dawn's Trivia section, since almost half of it just compares her to some characters. Weedle Mchairybug 16:03, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Read my first post. Its NOT disobedient. Jmath 20:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Look, Obedience means following orders. It doesn't matter if the character is rebellious or just plan clueless, if they don't follow orders, they're disobedient. it's that simple. It's a moot point anyways, since Kenji-girl, one of the high ranking members of the site, has already stated that, whether he was intending to be disobedient or not, it still counted as a disobedient pokemon, and therefore, Dawn's only the second main character aside from Ash to own a Disobedient pokemon. Weedle Mchairybug 20:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Could you blame a child for being disobedient for not knowing advanced mathematics??? Then why don't people punish them or something? Jmath 22:58, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

When did Ash actually punish Charizard? when did Dawn actually punish her Mamoswine? I don't recall them actually punishing their pokemon. In fact, the only character whom I would say actually punishes pokemon would be Paul. And anyways, no matter how hard you argue, unless you have another mod on your side, it's already written that Misty already owned a disobedient pokemon before Dawn ever appeared on the show (and considering how, like you, she also thought I obssess about Misty, that's saying quite a lot.) Weedle Mchairybug 23:04, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Sure...Its real smart to punish powerhouses like Mamoswine and Charizard. They are going to eat you alive! And you still haven't answered my question. Jmath 23:08, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Mamoswine is a vegetarian, so it can't eat dawn even if it wanted to (It's based off of the Wooly Mammoth, a herbivore.). You do have a good point on Charizard, though, though then again, Paul was known to punish any of his most powerful pokemon (I mean, he probably was going to do something bad to his Torterra when found oud it was teaching Ash's Grotle how to improve itself.). Anyways, I thought that question about Charizard and Mamoswine WAS my answer. either way, please stop, as Kenji-Girl had already agreed with me about the entire thing about Misty being the first main character other than Ash to own a disobedient pokemon. If you have a problem with it, take it to her. Weedle Mchairybug 23:19, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I looked up "disobedience" and it means willful refusal to follow orders. Chimchar and Psyduck both don't fall in this category. That proves your point wrong. Jmath 23:23, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

even still, she still agreed with me, as, willful or not, it still didn't follow orders. Again, I suggest you take the complaint to Kenji Girl, as she was the one who agreed with my views and put the thing in. Weedle Mchairybug 23:25, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

So what? We have proof that Psyduck didn't "disobey". And Kenji-girl probably didn't know the exact meaning of the word. (I didn't until I looked it up) Jmath 23:31, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Look

No matter how you twist it, it's still speculation. I've protected the talk page for now so it doesn't suffer anymore clutter. Now find something useful to do besides arguing with everyone. No one agrees with you. It's speculation. You can't compare speculation to fandom and fansite articles. So knock it off already. --ケンジのガール 02:25, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Even IF everyone agreed with me, it's still speculation. And besides, Wikis ALSO have a code where they DON'T allow Fanwank on them. Also, Pokeshipping is still speculation, which means it shouldn't even exist on Bulbapedia. Besides, how is that confirmation from Hidaka not speculation. Heck, if I made something up in regards to my company and what we were doing, REGARDLESS if I was a CEO or not, I'm still speculating. This only proves that you don't know what speculation is, or even if you did, you're too arrogant to actually see it. I mean, heck, even you yourself bring in speculation into articles, should you be removed due to that? Weedle Mchairybug 02:31, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

P.S. Another thing, seeing how WPM has actually BEEN with him, AND has had actual experience with the interview, it's NOT speculation. I mean, in order for it to be speculation on WPM's part, he has to not have been there, and only have heard of it. Even IF it were actually speculation, by that logic, seeing how the writers make mistakes in their judgement most of the time, even someone who works for the Pokemon Company/Gamefaqs is speculating, seeing how even they themselves don't know what's truly in store. Weedle Mchairybug 02:36, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Why do I even waste time talking to you?

1. Shipping has its own space. We warn that it contains speculation.
2. If Hidaka actually confirmed something by speaking, such as the reason why Tracey replaced Brock, than it's not speculation. If he has a weird reaction to a question and you assume its because he's not allowed to speak of Platinum, than it is speculation. I don't care how much experience WPM has with interviewing people. He's not psychic. His thoughts are not confirmation.
3. I know what speculation is. You apparently can't tell the difference between fanon and speculation.
4. What speculation do I bring? Please show me. Not counting Shipping of course. --ケンジのガール 02:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

What are you talking about? I wasn't saying that he wasn't allowed to speak of Platinum. I was saying he didn't know about platinum. If anyone was actually saying he was not allowed to talk about Platinum, it was J-J-M. Stop crediting/blaming things on me that I didn't even do!

And I don't care if Hidaka WAS the original director or not, What he says still counts as speculation, because he doesn't have absolute knowledge of the franchise.

As for things like... your speculations, other than the Shipping part, you've speculated on comparisons between sonic characters and pokemon characters. Personally, I don't see why Shipping shouldn't count. I mean, if it's speculation, it's speculation, and if the rules absolutely forebade speculation, then Shipping articles shouldn't exist, period, no matter what your stance on them is. Weedle Mchairybug 02:55, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

LOL that's what you're talking about? Those comparisons are on my USERPAGE. Userpages are NOT part of the mainspace. Neither is Shipping. Masamitsu Hidaka IS on the mainspace. Now I get it. You clearly don't know the difference between userpages and mainpages. Hey if you want to mention your speculation on whether he knew of Platinum or not, put it on your userpage. That would be acceptable. --ケンジのガール 03:03, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

@Weedle-SHIPPING HAS ITS OWN SPACE. HOW MANY TIMES DOES SHE HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT? IT'S NOT IN THE MAINSPACE. NEITHER ARE USERSPACES. AND TAKE AN ENGLISH CLASS! WITH ALL THOSE GRAMMATICAL MISTAKES, NO WONDER EVERYONE HATES YOU! DAMMIT FIND SOMETHING MORE CONSTRUCTIVE TO DO THAN F***ING ARGUING WITH EVERYONE, YOU...

@KG-What userpage? He doesn't even have one. Alpha Totodile

Now now, everyone, let's respect the COC. TTEchidna 00:38, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

éééééééééééé

Use the é. It's Pokémon, not Pokemon. It's right there on the character palette begging to be clicked. --ケンジのガール 00:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Remember this. I see you don't still use the é. By not using it, you cause extra work to other people correcting your grammar. Also, "dub" and "original" are not proper nouns. UltimateSephiroth ^{(about me · chat · edits)} 21:42, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Your grammar

is absolutely horrendous. The amount of times people have had to point out your grammar mistakes--the spelling of Pokémon, the difference between it's and its, and random capitalization--is absolutely ridiculous. I speak on behalf of all of the community here at Bulbapedia: it's time for you to actually heed warnings and make improvements. If any of us don't see any honest improvement with your edits, it will become a punishable offense. You must learn the rules of grammar--because the lack of proper grammar makes this site seem like it is run by a bunch of ten-year olds. ^Maverick_Nate 15:04, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Reverting

If an edit of yours is reverted, it's a bad idea to go back and undo it. If you really feel that strongly about your edits, discuss it on the talk page. Don't get into an edit war. --PAK Man ^Talk 16:24, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

I discussed it on DP049 with other users. In fact, it happened long before the League was even planned out. But just in case, I made a response on Talk:DP049, where we did have this discussion. Weedle Mchairybug 16:32, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Norman

Can you tell me where Norman actually says he is supposed to be the third Gym Leader faced? In the games and in the anime, he winds up fifth in each case, and IIRC his only reference to three (see my edit to Badge) is in AG003 saying three Pokémon are needed. If he does say he's supposed to be third, I'd like to know where because I've never seen that. If my understanding is correct, Hoenn is therefore handled by Ash and his friends like all regions before it (Norman came fifth because they were "near Petalburg" again, which doesn't make sense in the games; convenience, I guess, in the anime), and Norman's Gym requirements are the only thing that stopped him challenging there first. CycloneGU (talk) 15:52, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

That might have been a mistake (claiming he was actually supposed to be the third gym leader, I mean). But Norman DOES state in the ending of the episode that Ash was supposed to actually challenge him later on, and then points to Rustboro as being the first gym Ash should face. That would imply that there was indeed supposed to be a specific order trainers were supposed to face the gyms, at least in Hoenn. Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 15:58, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Here's the episode. I set it to start at the beginning of the final segment, but you can watch it in full if you'd like. Norman NEVER said he should be challenged later on. If you can show me where he says it, then that's fine, I just don't see what you say proven in the anime. CycloneGU (talk) 16:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

This is from the summary of the episode on this website: "Later back in front of Norman's Gym, Norman explains that he's actually a Gym Leader Ash is supposed to fight later on. The first Gym he should try is the one in Rustboro City" This is right near the end. Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 16:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

I'll visit there, then. Here are Norman's lines from the ending:

• "Your brother does know a lot about Pokémon and just might be a big help to you."
• "Ash, would it be too much of a bother if Max traveled along with you and May?"
• "I have a little something to give the both of you: a badge case to hold your winning Gym badges." (A grammar error here, too.)
• "And son, this is for you."
• "With one of those, you'll always know exactly where you are."
• "I suggest that you first travel to the closest Gym from here, and that's located in Rustboro City."
• "You do your best!"

Nothing about being faced later, so I'll go edit that article too. Thanks for the tip. CycloneGU (talk) 16:16, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Never mind, that's another Website. I think I've proven that the other Website is not reliable. Do you have a link? CycloneGU (talk) 16:17, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Never mind again, I've edited AG003. CycloneGU (talk) 16:20, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Blocked

Weedle, you have been blocked for a duration of seven days for your edit war on Mewtwo Returns. You are well aware that edit warring is not permitted on Bulbapedia, and that the proper course of dispute resolution is to use the article's talk page to discuss the changes in dispute. Take this time to re-familiarize yourself with Bulbapedia policy. Thank you, - Kogoro - Talk to me - 22:14, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Pocket Monsters: The Animation

Can you refer to it as Pocket Monsters: The Animation so that it shows up on the wanted pages and shows that it needs to be created? Also, do you personally have a copy of the book? --Abcboy (talk) 02:04, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Sure thing, I'll do that in my next edit. Also, I don't personally have a copy of the book, but I do know someone who does: http://cindysuke.tumblr.com/post/34817930237/the-facts-about-pokemon-world-lol Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 02:06, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

The Preview Button

Instead of editing a page several times in a row, try using the preview button to make sure your edit looks the way you want it to. It's right next to the Save Page button. Please try it out, so as not to clog up the Recent Changes. Also, if you want to edit multiple sections of the page, make sure that you click "edit this page" at the top of the page rather than editing it by section. Thanks! --—★レシイラム^talk 11:16, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

TV Ratings

Do you have a source for that? If you do, then state the source. Don't make other users guess and think that it's BS. If the source is Dogasu, then state that you got it from Dogasu. You have been here longer the I have to know that you should always source your information.--ForceFire 04:35, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Serebii

Hi! I just want to make sure you know that we cannot take any information from Serebii as it appears you have done for this Simisear information. If you see something on Serebii, make sure you can source it elsewhere first, and even then make doubly and triply sure that whatever you end up writing here still does not end up copying Serebii. Again, we cannot take things from Serebii. I hope you understand. =) Tiddlywinks (talk) 23:21, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

This... Just to hammer this home: NOTHING is ever to be taken from Serebii, period.

So, tell me... What is your source regarding XY137? Is it just Serebii? Tiddlywinks (talk) 15:05, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Serebii made it pretty clear that it came from Newtype Magazine. Here's what it had to say of the episode:

"The Newtype magazine in Japan has revealed another new episode title, this time for the fourty-fourth episodes of Pokémon XY & Z. These episodes is set to air on October 6th, following another week break on September 29th. This episode features Clemont helping rebuild Lumiose City Gym after the Team Flare attack.

Episode 940: We Start at Zero! Clemont's Decision!!"

If that doesn't qualify as a source besides Serebii, I don't know what does. Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 15:20, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm honestly just disappointed, Weedle. You have been here for a good amount of years and are still making the most simplest of mistakes. Serebii does not qualify for a source, regardless of what he says. He doesn't even post an image of the magazine scan, so no, it's not clear it came from a magazine scan. Saying something does not immediately make something true if you don't show the evidence.--ForceFire 15:28, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Given your comment here, I was also curious where you got "はじまりはゼロ！シトロンの決断！"? Tiddlywinks (talk) 15:31, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

I got it here: http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/XY137 Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 16:53, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Pokemon Wikia isn't a credible source either, because they could add that title just like you could add it here. It isn't an official website. Once there's a picture for the title, it will be posted. Playerking95 (talk) 16:58, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

In short, keep in mind that these things should always be verifiable. Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:02, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

I'd like to add, if your only source for English translations of new episode titles is Serebii, please don't try to use that (even changed a bit) to add the episodes here. That's still basically copying Serebii. Just leave it until someone else can make an independent translation. At worst, post the sources somewhere and let someone else create the episodes with independent translations. Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:07, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

PokeSpe reference

You are not right by saying that the implication of Silver being Giovanni's son in FR/LG and the subsequent confirmation of this fact in HG/SS is a PokeSpe reference in the games. It was the games that first mentioned the fact. PokeSpe decided to make Silver Giovanni's son only in FR/LG Chapter, which was after the release of FireRed and LeafGreen. So, it is the manga that referenced the game, not the other way 'round. --Maxim (talk) 16:14, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

New episode pages

When creating a new episode page, please use the {{New episode}} template. Otherwise, you get copy/paste errors like with what you did for XY138 and XY139. Thank you. --Carmen★ (Talk | contribs) 13:33, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Linking moves

Whenever you're linking to a move article, it's important to use the {{m}} template, as shown, to avoid using redirects. For example, {{m|Dark Void}} is the correct usage, not [[Dark Void]]. Just so you know. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 00:16, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

English Celebi

Are you playing a game set to the Japanese language or a system and game from the Japanese region? I have doubts about Celebi having English text for the Japanese region. Lady Ariel 02:00, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

I'm playing an English game set to the English language and I downloaded the game from the Nintendo eShop channel on the English Nintendo 3DS. Nothing Japanese at all regarding the game (well, aside from it in general was originally made in Japan, I mean.). I also managed to photograph it as well. Sorry for it being low quality, but I'm not sure how to get it directly from the game a'la Serebii.net. Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 10:01, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

EDIT: Sorry, now I see what was going on. Shouldn't have done that, dang it. Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 10:03, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

Link templates

Hey! I'm going to have to encourage you to read the site's list of link templates again. Using {{an|Rotom Pokédex}} or simply {{Rotom}} is highly encouraged, not [[Rotom Pokédex (anime)|Rotom]]. Thank you. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 20:24, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

Using Serebii as a source

Once again, you are using Serebii as a source when you know full well that he is not a valid source. It doesn't matter if he's right, just do no use his site as your source. Period. Your source should be the official Japanese site, not someone repeating what the Japanese site is saying.--ForceFire 13:49, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

"Advantage"

While I acknowlege some of your Team Rocket vs. Caterpie argument, "advantage" doesn't mean that Ash was guaranteed to beat Misty; it simply means that he was objectively in a favorable situation prior to the battle being interrupted (and since this was acknowledged by both Trainers, it's not simply speculation). I decided to rewrite that particular part entirely anyway, but I just wanted to clarify that. In the future, please try to use the talk page instead of edit warring (although I admittedly shouldn't have made that last revert either, so I apologize for that).

Additionally, I never claimed that you were being biased: I actually think you removing the previous wording of "about to win the battle" was the right decision, hence why I decided to try slightly rewording it instead. However, if you're going to say things like "regardless of my views on Misty", "even IF I believed Ash was owed a genuine win", and "my own personal views on the match were irrelevant"... of course I'm going to begin to question if you're truly attempting to be impartial here (especially given your history of Misty-related edits over the past 15 years). PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 10:18, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Fine, I'll grant you that much regarding your points, and that your wording was better. Though to be fair, Caterpie was also in extremely low health at that time as well thanks to its earlier near-death against Pidgeotto and... well, you know the rest of that battle and how it turned out for everyone involved (and it was also fairly explicit that it was weak even before the fight against Pidgeotto, much less Team Rocket. After Ash's attempt at capturing Pidgeotto outright without weakening it first just resulted in it escaping easily, Misty reminded him that he needed to battle it first, and also specifically stated the only reason Caterpie got easily captured without a fight was because it was already weak beforehand). I might be fanatically loyal to Misty, I'll admit that much, but I still would have avoided using "advantage" even if I had the exact opposite emotional views of Misty (and in fact, back when I was still on Bulbagarden and the discussion popped up whether Ash or Misty would have won, I gave pretty firm arguments why it wasn't necessarily confirmed Ash was going to win, and made it very clear that my being a Misty fan had absolutely nothing to do with my rationale, and that if anything my rationale actually was tied far more to something that happened with Ash than it ever did with Misty and then cited that particular battle. Granted, PDL pretty much mocked my argument when I cited that battle, but still...). Yes, it's true that Starmie was explicitly low on health, but it's also true that it was still close enough to the water's edge that it merely needed to hop back in and regenerate, though it might need a bit more effort to pull it off. And I mostly had to mention that stuff repeatedly in case someone DID try to accuse me of being biased towards Misty due to past experiences on Serebii, Pokecommunity, and BMGf where they did repeatedly do that. Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 02:50, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

A bit late on this one to reply (eh, still less than 6 months), but your talk page comment for Misty's Starmie (which I replied to, but I figured it would be appropriate to go into a bit more detail here) got me to rewatch EP007 in both Japanese and English, and I believe you misremembered Staryu's situation. What Staryu was actually doing when it dived into the water was negating the usage of Stun Spore and Sleep Powder (kind of similar to Natural Cure, but with water rather than switching out), not healing itself, so the argument that Starmie could still regenerate itself in the water doesn't really hold up. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 22:46, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

I didn't actually mention Staryu at all in that argument (my main focus was Starmie, and if anything I didn't even CONSIDER Staryu's earlier dive into the water to alleviate itself of Stun Spore.), and for the record, Starmie's core wasn't even damaged (ie, it didn't crack. The blinking light simply meant it was low on health), which is the only way it won't be able to heal at all barring maybe a Pokemon Center. And even if we were to somehow use that rationale for how it doesn't hold up, Bye Bye Butterfree made it very explicit that Starmie (and presumably Staryu) most certainly can heal itself (and by that, I specifically mean heal its HP back upwards, not simply negating a status effect) when exposed to water, at least as long as its core was intact (there was a scene during Ash, Misty and Brock's confrontation with Team Rocket over the poached Butterfree where James used a sledgehammer on Starmie, landed a direct hit on it and sent it flying into a wall, causing it to slump down in a similar manner to its situation in Waterflowers of Cerulean City, then Misty grabbed a water cannon (presumably from within Team Rocket's hideout) and proceeded to spray a torrent on it, and then it came right back to full strength). And that's not even getting into how Starmie's Pokedex entries back then make it explicit that it can regenerate as long as its core remains intact. Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 09:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

"I didn't actually mention Staryu at all in that argument (my main focus was Starmie, and if anything I didn't even CONSIDER Staryu's earlier dive into the water to alleviate itself of Stun Spore.)"

You may not have mentioned Staryu, but you stated here that Starmie could recover by jumping into the pool, which is what Staryu did earlier to negate Stun Spore/Sleep Powder, so I don't feel like it was unreasonable for me to assume that you used Staryu as a basis for that. If that's not the case, then I apologize.

"For the record, Starmie's core wasn't even damaged (ie, it didn't crack. The blinking light simply meant it was low on health), which is the only way it won't be able to heal at all barring maybe a Pokemon Center."

I'm pretty sure my stance from the very beginning was simply that Starmie was in an objectively disadvantageous position. I never mentioned anything about its core cracking.

"And even if we were to somehow use that rationale for how it doesn't hold up, Bye Bye Butterfree made it very explicit that Starmie (and presumably Staryu) most certainly can heal itself (and by that, I specifically mean heal its HP back upwards, not simply negating a status effect) when exposed to water, at least as long as its core was intact (there was a scene during Ash, Misty and Brock's confrontation with Team Rocket over the poached Butterfree where James used a sledgehammer on Starmie, landed a direct hit on it and sent it flying into a wall, causing it to slump down in a similar manner to its situation in Waterflowers of Cerulean City, then Misty grabbed a water cannon (presumably from within Team Rocket's hideout) and proceeded to spray a torrent on it, and then it came right back to full strength)."

Bit of a sidenote, but it was Jessie that used the sledgehammer. As for the rest: I mentioned this on the talk page for Misty's Starmie as well, but I don't think using future episodes is the greatest counterargument. There are many instances of Pokémon displaying a certain trait for the sake of the progression of the episode, only for it to never be used again (which I'm pretty sure is also what happened here as well).

"And that's not even getting into how Starmie's Pokedex entries back then make it explicit that it can regenerate as long as its core remains intact."

Those are Staryu's Pokédex entries you're thinking of, which is specifically for lost appendages rather than fully healing itself.

My main issue with your argument is that it's built too much on theoretical scenarios rather than what was actually presented within the episode itself. Sure, it's true that Starmie didn't "lose", but I never claimed that it did. I only stated that it was in an disadvantageous situation, which was acknowledged within the episode itself.

Also, you mentioned earlier that people have called you biased on Serebii, PokeCommunity, and the Bulbagarden forums. I only say this to try to offer some constructive criticism, but if there are three separate communities saying the same thing, I fear that there may be some truth within their words. If your initial talk page post on Misty's Starmie had been something like "Misty didn't really lose since the battle was interrupted, but I agree that it needs to be rewritten", I would completely understand. Instead, your post contained a fairly lengthy paragraph about the exact circumstances of the battle, theoretical ways in which the battle could have progressed, and a comparison to a separate episode. I feel like that's a bit much considering Temari44 only mentioned the Gym battle in a small part of their post. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 11:55, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

"You may not have mentioned Staryu, but you stated here that Starmie could recover by jumping into the pool, which is what Staryu did earlier to negate Stun Spore/Sleep Powder, so I don't feel like it was unreasonable for me to assume that you used Staryu as a basis for that. If that's not the case, then I apologize."

I guess you could say Staryu might have been a factor, but even without Staryu, the episode Bye Bye Butterfree already made clear it can fully heal from being exposed to water. And that's not even getting into how Generation III later had Staryu and Starmie have an ability to outright heal from water type attacks (and it wouldn't be the first time they did abilities for Pokemon based on an earlier episode. See Rhydon and it having Lightning Rod as an ability in a direct reference to the infamous Aim for the Horn situation during Blaine's Gym Battle).

"I'm pretty sure my stance from the very beginning was simply that Starmie was in an objectively disadvantageous position. I never mentioned anything about its core cracking."

It still would have been a definite factor in whether or not Starmie would have been in a disadvantageous situation or not (and I define "disadvantageous" as "absolutely no way to get out of trouble", not "small chance of getting out of trouble" but "literally 0% chance"). The only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it was during the battle against Giselle when it was knocked into the pool (which, BTW, the person specifically referenced and I even agreed with him), and even there it was explicitly shown that Starmie's core had been smashed beforehand (which actually backs up its Pokedex entry if anything). If they wanted to actually indicate Misty was inevitably going to lose, they should have made sure to have Starmie's core explicitly crack from impact and then flash to imply that the core was damaged and thus cannot heal. And I realize full well they acknowledged it was that, but that unfortunately isn't enough since I've seen plenty of instances where they outright state an opponent is at a disadvantage with the person winning attempting to press the attack, only for the winning individual to end up defeated at the last second (like Tealc's fight against that fake Jaffah rebel leader for example, or to keep it contained to Pokemon like how Caterpie defeated Jessie and James, heck, how Ash turned the tide against Jessie during his Viridian Gym Match), or otherwise it being made clear afterwards that they weren't in any danger and just trying to increase drama [the latter bit I'm specifically thinking of how Gotenks in an attempt at staging a dramatic finish exaggerated how Super Buu is cleaning his clock, only for Piccolo to take it seriously and seal the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and it then being revealed after the fact that Gotenks was actually bluffing about losing meaning Piccolo blew up the entrance for nothing].). I would have said the same thing if it were Ash and Pidgeotto in their shoes (well, okay, maybe not quite to that level since unlike Starmie, Pidgeotto doesn't heal from absorbing water).

"Bit of a sidenote, but it was Jessie that used the sledgehammer. As for the rest: I mentioned this on the talk page for Misty's Starmie as well, but I don't think using future episodes is the greatest counterargument. There are many instances of Pokémon displaying a certain trait for the sake of the progression of the episode, only for it to never be used again (which I'm pretty sure is also what happened here as well)."

Fine, I stand corrected regarding who used the sledgehammer, but my point still stands. And for the record, what you used as a counterargument is a very bad argument in itself, since I can easily use that exact argument to just shut down the wiki altogether and delete all articles precisely BECAUSE they do progression and never bring it up again, thus can't qualify as facts, thus can't allow for an encyclopedia or even summaries (I'm an all or nothing kind of guy). Either way, the fact that Staryu and Starmie later on got Water Absorb would indicate they thought specifically of that scene when deciding on those abilities for them (similar to Rhydon having Lightning Rod), so more likely than not it has that ability. Heck, Misty's Starmie's article even specifically noted that it carried at the very least a similar ability to Water Absorb and cited that particular scene.

"Those are Staryu's Pokédex entries you're thinking of, which is specifically for lost appendages rather than fully healing itself."

Being the evolved form of Staryu, I'm pretty sure Starmie probably retained that ability. Heck, its article even indicated it had regenerative abilities as well.

"My main issue with your argument is that it's built too much on theoretical scenarios rather than what was actually presented within the episode itself. Sure, it's true that Starmie didn't "lose", but I never claimed that it did. I only stated that it was in an disadvantageous situation, which was acknowledged within the episode itself."

As I stated above, the problem is that there have been plenty of instances where they stated they were in a disadvantageous situation in an episode or even a game (both inside the Pokemon anime and even in other franchises), yet the person at a disadvantage outright prevailed against the superior opponent, so that unfortunately isn't even enough to acknowledge that bit (as when I think of disadvantageous situations, I specifically have in mind instances where there's no way to get out of trouble, and by "no way" I mean literally 0% chance of survivability, let alone prevailing.). That's why I still think the situation was very ambiguous ESPECIALLY given Starmie's later being revealed to have a similar ability to Water Absorb during the events of Bye Bye Butterfree. Heck, if anything, Ash's Caterpie came far closer to actually BEING in an explicit disadvantageous situation when he fought Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth due to having the entire deck stacked against him (aside from the illegal at the time 2-on-1 match that Team Rocket forced Ash into, their Ekans and Koffing had significantly more experience than it, plus the fact that both were Poison-types, which gave them a type advantage over his bug-type status, and they had even managed to easily take out Ash's Pidgeotto, who at that time nearly made Caterpie its lunch thanks largely to Ash's stupidity earlier, and that's not even getting into how it was close to fainting by that point thanks to that earlier battle, and even without the Pidgeotto battle was weak enough that Ash didn't even need to battle it just to capture it. Note that I said "came far closer to", not actually WAS a disadvantageous situation, because ultimately Caterpie prevailed).

"Also, you mentioned earlier that people have called you biased on Serebii, PokeCommunity, and the Bulbagarden forums. I only say this to try to offer some constructive criticism, but if there are three separate communities saying the same thing, I fear that there may be some truth within their words. If your initial talk page post on Misty's Starmie had been something like "Misty didn't really lose since the battle was interrupted, but I agree that it needs to be rewritten", I would completely understand. Instead, your post contained a fairly lengthy paragraph about the exact circumstances of the battle, theoretical ways in which the battle could have progressed, and a comparison to a separate episode. I feel like that's a bit much considering Temari44 only mentioned the Gym battle in a small part of their post."

Hey, I tend to get very detailed in my replies. It's basically a quirk of mine due to both my aspergers and also my parents specifically demanding I get more detailed in my answers rather than saying "just because", "I felt like it", or even going extremely general about who "they" are when I say "people". As far as that big about Bulbapedia, Pokecommunity, and Serebii.net, usually it's just the same people who happen to be members of all three sites, and either way, just because three entities claim something doesn't necessarily make it true. Just ask the coverage about the Vietnam War by the major networks. All showed the worst aspects about Vietnam, yet it eventually came to light that all of them, especially the so-called "most trusted man in America" Walter Cronkite, were extremely biased against the war and in Cronkite's case may have even up and out lied through his teeth during the Tet offensive. A similar story can be shown with the Trayvon Martin case. And I only replied in that sense because he specifically said that Misty lost that battle (and I wasn't even disagreeing with his overall argument that Misty's Starmie was weak. If anything, I fully agreed with his argument, including its loss against Giselle's Graveler, and only had a minor quibble with Misty's Starmie being stated to have lost the Cerulean Gym battle, and that's only because there was literally nothing to suggest it lost before Team Rocket interfered.). Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 21:36, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

"I guess you could say Staryu might have been a factor, but even without Staryu, the episode Bye Bye Butterfree already made clear it can fully heal from being exposed to water. And that's not even getting into how Generation III later had Staryu and Starmie have an ability to outright heal from water type attacks (and it wouldn't be the first time they did abilities for Pokemon based on an earlier episode. See Rhydon and it having Lightning Rod as an ability in a direct reference to the infamous Aim for the Horn situation during Blaine's Gym Battle)."

Neither Staryu nor Starmie have Water Absorb as a possible Ability.

"It still would have been a definite factor in whether or not Starmie would have been in a disadvantageous situation or not (and I define "disadvantageous" as "absolutely no way to get out of trouble", not "small chance of getting out of trouble" but "literally 0% chance")."

The definition of disadvantage is "an unfavorable circumstance or condition that reduces the chances of success or effectiveness"; it does not mean "0% chance of prevailing". Misty's Starmie was explicitly stated to be low on energy (but not actually knocked out), which means it was at a disadvantage.

"The only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it was during the battle against Giselle when it was knocked into the pool (which, BTW, the person specifically referenced and I even agreed with him), and even there it was explicitly shown that Starmie's core had been smashed beforehand (which actually backs up its Pokedex entry if anything)."

I'm fairly sure that this "water healing" attribute was only ever displayed once in EP021. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to say "the only time where being exposed to water DIDN'T heal it" when it only happened once.

"If they wanted to actually indicate Misty was inevitably going to lose, they should have made sure to have Starmie's core explicitly crack from impact and then flash to imply that the core was damaged and thus cannot heal. And I realize full well they acknowledged it was that, but that unfortunately isn't enough since I've seen plenty of instances where they outright state an opponent is at a disadvantage with the person winning attempting to press the attack, only for the winning individual to end up defeated at the last second (like Tealc's fight against that fake Jaffah rebel leader for example, or to keep it contained to Pokemon like how Caterpie defeated Jessie and James, heck, how Ash turned the tide against Jessie during his Viridian Gym Match), or otherwise it being made clear afterwards that they weren't in any danger and just trying to increase drama [the latter bit I'm specifically thinking of how Gotenks in an attempt at staging a dramatic finish exaggerated how Super Buu is cleaning his clock, only for Piccolo to take it seriously and seal the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and it then being revealed after the fact that Gotenks was actually bluffing about losing meaning Piccolo blew up the entrance for nothing].). I would have said the same thing if it were Ash and Pidgeotto in their shoes (well, okay, maybe not quite to that level since unlike Starmie, Pidgeotto doesn't heal from absorbing water)."

Again, a disadvantage is not an unwinnable situation. I also don't think the Gotenks situation is comparable since it was made clear to the readers/viewers that he was faking it even before Piccolo destroyed the door (and truth be told, Gotenks ultimately did fail to beat Super Buu because he's an idiot and refused to actually take the fight seriously until much later). PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 22:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

"Fine, I stand corrected regarding who used the sledgehammer, but my point still stands. And for the record, what you used as a counterargument is a very bad argument in itself, since I can easily use that exact argument to just shut down the wiki altogether and delete all articles precisely BECAUSE they do progression and never bring it up again, thus can't qualify as facts, thus can't allow for an encyclopedia or even summaries (I'm an all or nothing kind of guy)."

I'm sorry, but I feel like this is a huge stretch. My argument is based on information specifically presented in the episode itself, while yours is theorizing on how Misty could still make a comeback based on information not presented in the episode. I don't see how Starmie displaying a one-time attribute of being rejuvenated from a water blast in a later episode should be used as an argument for the Gym battle; Misty never said anything like "If I can just get Starmie into the water, I still have a chance".

"Either way, the fact that Staryu and Starmie later on got Water Absorb would indicate they thought specifically of that scene when deciding on those abilities for them (similar to Rhydon having Lightning Rod), so more likely than not it has that ability. Heck, Misty's Starmie's article even specifically noted that it carried at the very least a similar ability to Water Absorb and cited that particular scene.""

Just to reiterate: Neither Staryu nor Starmie have Water Absorb as a possible Ability. Their regular abilities are Illuminate and Natural Cure, along with gaining Analytic as a Hidden Ability starting with Gen V.

"Being the evolved form of Staryu, I'm pretty sure Starmie probably retained that ability. Heck, its article even indicated it had regenerative abilities as well."

Again, this is used in the context of lost body parts. It's certainly not something like an immediate healing factor.

"As I stated above, the problem is that there have been plenty of instances where they stated they were in a disadvantageous situation in an episode or even a game (both inside the Pokemon anime and even in other franchises), yet the person at a disadvantage outright prevailed against the superior opponent, so that unfortunately isn't even enough to acknowledge that bit (as when I think of disadvantageous situations, I specifically have in mind instances where there's no way to get out of trouble, and by "no way" I mean literally 0% chance of survivability, let alone prevailing.). That's why I still think the situation was very ambiguous ESPECIALLY given Starmie's later being revealed to have a similar ability to Water Absorb during the events of Bye Bye Butterfree. Heck, if anything, Ash's Caterpie came far closer to actually BEING in an explicit disadvantageous situation when he fought Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth due to having the entire deck stacked against him (aside from the illegal at the time 2-on-1 match that Team Rocket forced Ash into, their Ekans and Koffing had significantly more experience than it, plus the fact that both were Poison-types, which gave them a type advantage over his bug-type status, and they had even managed to easily take out Ash's Pidgeotto, who at that time nearly made Caterpie its lunch thanks largely to Ash's stupidity earlier, and that's not even getting into how it was close to fainting by that point thanks to that earlier battle, and even without the Pidgeotto battle was weak enough that Ash didn't even need to battle it just to capture it. Note that I said "came far closer to", not actually WAS a disadvantageous situation, because ultimately Caterpie prevailed)."

Again, a disadvantage is not an unwinnable situation, just a situation that is harder to win from. There's nothing wrong with saying that Starmie was at a disadvantage, since that's what was displayed and stated within the episode itself.

"Hey, I tend to get very detailed in my replies. It's basically a quirk of mine due to both my aspergers and also my parents specifically demanding I get more detailed in my answers rather than saying "just because", "I felt like it", or even going extremely general about who "they" are when I say "people". As far as that big about Bulbapedia, Pokecommunity, and Serebii.net, usually it's just the same people who happen to be members of all three sites, and either way, just because three entities claim something doesn't necessarily make it true. Just ask the coverage about the Vietnam War by the major networks. All showed the worst aspects about Vietnam, yet it eventually came to light that all of them, especially the so-called "most trusted man in America" Walter Cronkite, were extremely biased against the war and in Cronkite's case may have even up and out lied through his teeth during the Tet offensive. A similar story can be shown with the Trayvon Martin case."

This is an extreme comparison. One person's conduct on the Internet in regards to a fictional character from an anime is not at all equivalent to war or murder. At the very least, it's undeniable that a lot of conflict that you've run into on these sites are related to Misty (honestly, I can just look at earlier posts on this very talk page even before this particular discussion started). It's one thing to claim that you're not being biased and another to actually showcase that you're not being biased. You even admitted earlier that you're "fanatically loyal to Misty". PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 22:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

If I were to be biased regarding Misty, I'd have rewritten every loss she had to be eradicated and thus indicated she never lost (either that, or if I genuinely hated Misty, rewrite everything to outright EXAGGERATE her loss ratio to imply she has a similarly bad track record to Team Rocket). Not only did I not do that, I actually agreed with the guy who tried to defend Starmie's overall track record that the Giselle bit WAS indeed a loss (a story-required loss, yes, but a loss nonetheless, and if I agreed that the Giselle bit was a loss, that is indeed showcasing I'm NOT biased. Someone who truly IS biased towards Misty in terms of liking her would never agree to her having a single loss at all). No, I'm not being biased, even if I do have fanatical loyalty to Misty (someone who's truly biased would literally rewrite the entire wiki to either avoid listing any, and I do mean literally ANY flaws she might have, or exaggerate her flaws to such a degree that they come across as the absolute worst person to ever live). Heck, I have an absolute hatred of May and to a lesser extent Dawn, yet you don't see me editing their articles to paint them in the absolute worst light imaginable (which WOULD be the very definition of bias, BTW). If anything, I AM attempting to be VERY objective in my edits especially regarding Misty. Also, a huge amount of stuff on here literally only happened in single episodes, or so few episodes that they barely even matter, yet they're still noted as actually having happened as if they had any importance, so that's far from a rebuttal regarding whether or not Starmie could indeed heal from it (and once is more than enough to indicate it would happen). I might as well also point out that I focus on the connections between generalities and details, so I DON'T limit myself to whether it's demonstrated in a single episode or not. Otherwise, Ash's Ho-Oh connection is meaningless since they never bring it up since the beginning of DP, and his Aura abilities also only showed up a few times in DP. And I do agree ultimately Misty's Starmie was weakened, but we have no conclusive proof that it would have lost, period, hence why I tried to rewrite it the way I did earlier as that's the only actual way to write it. Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 02:13, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Everything that you're describing is simply bias taken to the logical extreme (i.e. to the point of being completely unreasonable), which is an exaggeration and doesn't actually disprove whether or not you're partial to Misty (which I think is fairly obvious at this point). Again, what's important in this instance is the info presented in the episode itself, which is less speculatory than thinking of ways that Misty "could" win or not. Again, I never said she actually lost. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 03:27, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Pokémon

When writing "Pokémon" or "Poké", don't forget to write the "e" as "é". Also, the word "Trainer" is capitalized. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 00:06, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Sensational Sisters

There's no indication in Japanese or English that Misty "quit" being a Gym Leader; she simply says that she left her sisters in charge of the Gym. Please don't just plainly revert me and discuss things on the talk page first. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 12:13, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

I watched both Japanese with Subs and the English dub with Closed Captioning, and this is what she says when the topic is brought up:

"When I saw you [Satoshi] battling, I just couldn’t sit still! So I left Hanada Gym to my sisters and set off on a journey."

"After watching your [Ash's] battle, I just couldn't stay still a second longer! And so, I left the [Cerulean] Gym with my sisters in charge, and started a journey!"

And while it's true that it doesn't use the exact word "quit" in there, it's pretty clear that's what's being implied especially when past episodes have made it clear that you can't engage in a Pokemon Journey while you're a Gym Leader (in fact, such a restraint was made explicit as early as Showdown at Pewter City from both Flint AND Brock, and I think Candace and Zoey both alluded to this restraint in that episode of Diamond and Pearl.). Besides, no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from (I sure don't). That sounds more like the kind of talk a guy gives when he's about to quit his job for a better one. A good contrast would be her reappearance in Alola (second one) where she explicitly stated that a major part of why she went to Alola besides visiting Ash was to take a break from the swarms of Gym Challengers that were arriving. Either way, she definitely never mentioned the gym at all in JN147, much less resuming gym duties (the most we got was Brock eagerly telling Misty to say hi to her sisters for him before Croagunk toxic stabbed him), and considering most instances she either explicitly mentions she has to resume gym duties when she departs (Mirage Kingdom Arc, the Kanto, Alola arc) or otherwise its made very clear she had to resume Gym Duties (beginning of Battle Frontier where Daisy basically called Misty and threatened to hand badges out again if she didn't return, Mastermind as well since it's made explicit she was only there due to being invited alongside Oak and was most likely going to return to the Gym afterward), the fact that she makes absolutely NO mention of gym duties at all means she most likely wasn't going back to being a Gym Leader that time. Let's not forget, Brock also returned to Pewter City in the same episode, and he's repeatedly stated to no longer be a Gym Leader and thus obviously wasn't going to be resuming gym duties. Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 12:29, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Most of what you've outlined is your own headcanon with no real proof that she quit being a Gym Leader, which you also just admitted to.

"I watched both Japanese with Subs and the English dub with Closed Captioning, and this is what she says when the topic is brought up:

"When I saw you [Satoshi] battling, I just couldn’t sit still! So I left Hanada Gym to my sisters and set off on a journey."

"After watching your [Ash's] battle, I just couldn't stay still a second longer! And so, I left the [Cerulean] Gym with my sisters in charge, and started a journey!"

Yes, I also watched both. Again, there's no mention of her quitting.

"And while it's true that it doesn't use the exact word "quit" in there, it's pretty clear that's what's being implied especially when past episodes have made it clear that you can't engage in a Pokemon Journey while you're a Gym Leader (in fact, such a restraint was made explicit as early as Showdown at Pewter City from both Flint AND Brock, and I think Candace and Zoey both alluded to this restraint in that episode of Diamond and Pearl.)."

I'm pretty sure that you just can't leave a Gym unattended without another Gym Leader looking after it. Brock was able to leave on a journey after leaving Pewter Gym in Flint's care (and Lt. Surge also left Vermilion Gym in Visquez's care while he went on his own journey). Both Flint and Brock were considered official Gym Leaders even as late as DPS02.

"Besides, no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from (I sure don't). That sounds more like the kind of talk a guy gives when he's about to quit his job for a better one. A good contrast would be her reappearance in Alola (second one) where she explicitly stated that a major part of why she went to Alola besides visiting Ash was to take a break from the swarms of Gym Challengers that were arriving."

Firstly, you can't claim that "no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from" when plenty of people watched that episode without ever getting the impression that she "quit". Secondly, this is speculation.

"Either way, she definitely never mentioned the gym at all in JN147, much less resuming gym duties (the most we got was Brock eagerly telling Misty to say hi to her sisters for him before Croagunk toxic stabbed him), and considering most instances she either explicitly mentions she has to resume gym duties when she departs (Mirage Kingdom Arc, the Kanto, Alola arc) or otherwise its made very clear she had to resume Gym Duties (beginning of Battle Frontier where Daisy basically called Misty and threatened to hand badges out again if she didn't return, Mastermind as well since it's made explicit she was only there due to being invited alongside Oak and was most likely going to return to the Gym afterward), the fact that she makes absolutely NO mention of gym duties at all means she most likely wasn't going back to being a Gym Leader that time. Let's not forget, Brock also returned to Pewter City in the same episode, and he's repeatedly stated to no longer be a Gym Leader and thus obviously wasn't going to be resuming gym duties."

Most of this is speculation (outside of her not mentioning resuming Gym Leader duties). However, my reworded edit didn't say that she resumed her duties, just that her sisters look after the Gym when she's away.

I also maintain that you should not have reverted me twice before going to the talk page. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 13:16, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Actually, Brock was repeatedly considered an ex-Gym Leader/Former Gym Leader by the Alola, Kanto arc (more specifically, the episode where Brock and Misty show them the ropes at Cerulean Gym regarding gym battles), which was well after the events of DPS02. I'd know, I watched it on PokemonTV when it came out with closed captioning. Even made particular note about that bit. Only Misty was specifically stated to be an actual current Gym Leader in that episode. And last I checked, Giovanni didn't explicitly make Jessie, James and Meowth Gym Leaders (they merely assumed they became Gym Leaders) and if anything his orders to them made it sound as though he specifically wanted them to guard against a possible attack on the Gym ("Use these [Pokemon] in the event of an emergency!"). And as far as Lt. Surge is concerned, quite frankly, ESPECIALLY after Brock was explicitly considered a former Gym Leader, ie, one who is no longer a gym leader at all, that means Lt. Surge isn't a gym leader by that point either (besides, Flint's not even a Gym Leader anymore, Forrest is, and most certainly was an official one by DPS02.). And the whole "unattended" issue is its own problem since, ignoring how Giovanni's apparently running Team Rocket without actually BEING at the gym prior to Battle of the Badge (afterwards, he most likely quit the position), we had Fantina being absent from the gym for a good long while, being absent TWICE, in fact, both times when Ash tried to challenge her, and didn't even get a slap on the wrist for it, much less had her gym priviledges revoked for it. And I still stand by my statement that there's no way Misty would say something like that if she wasn't quitting the position. And BTW, that stuff I described wasn't headcanon. That was evidence directly from the episode and related episodes. Want to know what ACTUAL headcanon is? Misty's parents being murdered by Team Rocket members and her nearly being killed by them as a baby, and then being adopted by the Sensational Sisters, stuff that had literally no basis whatsoever from the series and something I made up in its entirety (and yes, I actually DID write that as a fanfic). Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 13:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

"Actually, Brock was repeatedly considered an ex-Gym Leader/Former Gym Leader by the Alola, Kanto arc (more specifically, the episode where Brock and Misty show them the ropes at Cerulean Gym regarding gym battles), which was well after the events of DPS02. I'd know, I watched it on PokemonTV when it came out with closed captioning. Even made particular note about that bit. Only Misty was specifically stated to be an actual current Gym Leader in that episode."

None of this has any relevance to what I was talking about.

"And last I checked, Giovanni didn't explicitly make Jessie, James and Meowth Gym Leaders (they merely assumed they became Gym Leaders) and if anything his orders to them made it sound as though he specifically wanted them to guard against a possible attack on the Gym ("Use these [Pokemon] in the event of an emergency!")."

I never even brought up Viridian Gym since its circumstances are much different from other Gyms.

"And as far as Lt. Surge is concerned, quite frankly, ESPECIALLY after Brock was explicitly considered a former Gym Leader, ie, one who is no longer a gym leader at all, that means Lt. Surge isn't a gym leader by that point either (besides, Flint's not even a Gym Leader anymore, Forrest is, and most certainly was an official one by DPS02.). And the whole "unattended" issue is its own problem since, ignoring how Giovanni's apparently running Team Rocket without actually BEING at the gym prior to Battle of the Badge (afterwards, he most likely quit the position), we had Fantina being absent from the gym for a good long while, being absent TWICE, in fact, both times when Ash tried to challenge her, and didn't even get a slap on the wrist for it, much less had her gym priviledges revoked for it."

First of all, Visquez is referred to outright as a substitute Gym Leader for Lt. Surge, meaning Lt. Surge is definitely still a Gym Leader. This leads to my second point...

You're quite mistaken on several things regarding the status of the Pewter Gym Leader, as well as the restrictions on Gym Leaders traveling. Brock left Pewter Gym to Flint in order to travel with Ash for a lengthy amount of time and was STILL considered an official Gym Leader by DPS02 as far as the Pokémon Inspection Agency was concerned. The Nurse Joy from said agency explicitly refused to battle Forrest at first, and would only accept a battle from Brock or Flint (meaning that Flint was also still considered an official Gym Leader). While Forrest had been conducting Gym battles prior to this, he was not the official Gym Leader since Flint never delivered the paperwork to officiate the change, and only obtained the title during the events of the episode itself.

Between Brock leaving Pewter Gym to Flint (again, both of them still had their titles by DPS02), Lt. Surge leaving Vermilion Gym to Visquez, and Clemont leaving Lumiose Gym to Clembot, there's no indication that Gym Leaders will lose their titles just because they decided to travel, provided that someone is running the Gym (and even then, Fantina was never penalized for being absent, as you've already mentioned). Even Misty already had the title of Gym Leader prior to the beginning of the series.

"And I still stand by my statement that there's no way Misty would say something like that if she wasn't quitting the position."

Literally nothing about her dialogue indicates that she "quit". I have no idea why you're so convinced otherwise.

"And BTW, that stuff I described wasn't headcanon. That was evidence directly from the episode and related episodes. Want to know what ACTUAL headcanon is? Misty's parents being murdered by Team Rocket members and her nearly being killed by them as a baby, and then being adopted by the Sensational Sisters, stuff that had literally no basis whatsoever from the series and something I made up in its entirety (and yes, I actually DID write that as a fanfic)."

Your personal interpretation of events is still headcanon. I don't know what you're trying to prove here by talking about your fanfiction. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 16:29, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

The first bit actually has quite a bit of relevance, since you stated Brock and Flint were both Gym Leaders, and I was pointing out that Brock WASN'T considered a Gym Leader by that episode (the Alola, Kanto Gym episode). They wouldn't repeatedly call him a "former" Gym Leader if he still was one, as former means he no longer is one in any capacity. And yes, they repeatedly stated "Former Gym Leader" in reference to Brock twice, I think three times tops in that episode. I counted it while watching it, and even took mental note of those bits when comparing Brock's battle with Misty's battle on Pokecommunity's forums. And bear in mind that episode was FAR more recent than DPS02. If they wanted Brock to still be the Gym Leader, in ANY capacity, they'd strictly refer to him as Gym Leader, NOT Former Gym Leader.

But, fine, we'll keep it to your rendition, but I'm doubtful they'd have Misty make that kind of emphasis regarding her resuming her journey if she was still an active gym leader (even with Lt. Surge, he had to specifically confer it onto Vasquez, and going by DPS02, such had to be done formally to the PIA's knowledge for it to stick considering what nearly happened with Forrest despite Brock specifically making him a Gym Leader after Family that Battles Together Stays Together. And BTW, a "substitute" would strictly be temporary, and a Pokemon Journey's considered a long-term engagement, so having Lt. Surge engage in a Journey while leaving a substitute doesn't make any sense at all. Besides, going by the summary for that episode, it specifically stated he was away for training, which doesn't quite indicate he went on a journey, the last of which Misty was explicitly undergoing. And while training could be considered short-term, a journey implies a far longer commitment.). I'll give you Clemont, however, though even THAT nearly ended in disaster due to apparently giving the opposite command to the robot than he intended to give before things got fixed up. As far as Fantina, my main problem with the whole thing with her is that the PIA had a strict Zero-Tolerance policy regarding Gyms (that was also a major factor in the conflict of Cerulean Blues), meaning the lengthy period she was away without even a substitute would have most likely resulted in the PIA shutting her gym down when enough complaints reached them (I'm extremely doubtful Ash and Co., or even Paul for that matter, were the only ones who got turned away). Either way, I'm still rewording it a bit to note that she took over as the primary Gym Leader due to her status as Gym Leader being made apparent as early as EP007, both English Dub and Japanese version, which her sisters didn't even deny, which you yourself pointed out (meaning the only real change was who effectively acted as the "face").

And my point with the fanfic bit is defining precisely what "headcanon" is. And what I pointed out from the episodes is NOT "headcanon", as it's literally what's shown in the Episode, and what is said in there. If I were to go by my own personal interpretations on an episode, I'd even go as far as to state blatantly false stuff like saying Misty torched the gym when she left just because, hey, I imagined (and by definition interpreted) her doing that before she left, despite it never being shown or even alluded to (not to mention would blatantly be out of character for Misty as she's characterized in the anime). If I were to do that, THEN you can denounce me as engaging in "headcanon." Otherwise, don't. Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 19:43, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

I recognize that the situation is mostly resolved, but I still have quite a few things I need to reply to here.

"The first bit actually has quite a bit of relevance, since you stated Brock and Flint were both Gym Leaders, and I was pointing out that Brock WASN'T considered a Gym Leader by that episode (the Alola, Kanto Gym episode). They wouldn't repeatedly call him a "former" Gym Leader if he still was one, as former means he no longer is one in any capacity. And yes, they repeatedly stated "Former Gym Leader" in reference to Brock twice, I think three times tops in that episode. I counted it while watching it, and even took mental note of those bits when comparing Brock's battle with Misty's battle on Pokecommunity's forums. And bear in mind that episode was FAR more recent than DPS02. If they wanted Brock to still be the Gym Leader, in ANY capacity, they'd strictly refer to him as Gym Leader, NOT Former Gym Leader.

No, I said they were still considered Gym Leaders by the time of DPS02. I never claimed that they still ARE Gym Leaders (note that I never used present tense in my previous edits), so you bringing up SM is irrelevant to my point. My point was simply that Brock went on a long journey, came back, and was still considered one of the official Gym Leaders by DPS02 (again, I never claimed that he or Flint are still Gym Leaders in the present day).

"But, fine, we'll keep it to your rendition, but I'm doubtful they'd have Misty make that kind of emphasis regarding her resuming her journey if she was still an active gym leader (even with Lt. Surge, he had to specifically confer it onto Vasquez, and going by DPS02, such had to be done formally to the PIA's knowledge for it to stick considering what nearly happened with Forrest despite Brock specifically making him a Gym Leader after Family that Battles Together Stays Together. And BTW, a "substitute" would strictly be temporary, and a Pokemon Journey's considered a long-term engagement, so having Lt. Surge engage in a Journey while leaving a substitute doesn't make any sense at all. Besides, going by the summary for that episode, it specifically stated he was away for training, which doesn't quite indicate he went on a journey, the last of which Misty was explicitly undergoing. And while training could be considered short-term, a journey implies a far longer commitment.). I'll give you Clemont, however, though even THAT nearly ended in disaster due to apparently giving the opposite command to the robot than he intended to give before things got fixed up. As far as Fantina, my main problem with the whole thing with her is that the PIA had a strict Zero-Tolerance policy regarding Gyms (that was also a major factor in the conflict of Cerulean Blues), meaning the lengthy period she was away without even a substitute would have most likely resulted in the PIA shutting her gym down when enough complaints reached them (I'm extremely doubtful Ash and Co., or even Paul for that matter, were the only ones who got turned away)."

Okay, so I rewatched EP005 in both Japanese and English, and the reason why Brock couldn't travel is explicitly stated to be due to him having to take care of his siblings; it's never stated at any point that Gym Leaders can't travel.

It's true that it's later stated in HS02 (Cerulean Blues) that a Gym will be shut down without a Gym Leader watching it, but that just means that there needs to be at least one Gym Leader present (granted, we know Fantina did get away with it, but that's besides the point). Given that there have been several Gyms in the anime with multiple Gym Leaders (Pewter/Cerulean/Vermilion/Mossdeep/Striaton/Lumiose/Stow-on-Side), there's nothing indicating that Gym Leaders can't travel given the right circumstances.

"Either way, I'm still rewording it a bit to note that she took over as the primary Gym Leader due to her status as Gym Leader being made apparent as early as EP007, both English Dub and Japanese version, which her sisters didn't even deny, which you yourself pointed out (meaning the only real change was who effectively acted as the "face")."

Yeah, that's completely fine with me. I have no issues with that.

"And my point with the fanfic bit is defining precisely what "headcanon" is. And what I pointed out from the episodes is NOT "headcanon", as it's literally what's shown in the Episode, and what is said in there. If I were to go by my own personal interpretations on an episode, I'd even go as far as to state blatantly false stuff like saying Misty torched the gym when she left just because, hey, I imagined (and by definition interpreted) her doing that before she left, despite it never being shown or even alluded to (not to mention would blatantly be out of character for Misty as she's characterized in the anime). If I were to do that, THEN you can denounce me as engaging in "headcanon." Otherwise, don't."

Extreme examples like what you're trying to present aren't the only form of headcanon. This right here is your own speculation: "Besides, no one talks like that about a position they simply were on temporary leave from (I sure don't). That sounds more like the kind of talk a guy gives when he's about to quit his job for a better one."

I talked to the admins about it and they stated that her wording was ambiguous (hence why they approved of my wording since it has less speculation). One user even said that they don't view it any differently from the other times when Misty left her sisters in charge of the Gym in the past (and they also believe that it's basically the same situation as Vermilion Gym's). PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 10:25, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Even though Forrest was specifically conferred Gym Leader by Brock at the end of A Family that Battles Together Stays Together and, heck, Lola's whole ANTICS in that episode with Flint barely offering much resistance? And apparently there was little actual issue between that episode up to DPS02 (which if we were to take the whole thing at face value means Lola WASN'T even a legal gym leader when she did those things, which was even WORSE)? Then again, the entire PIA issue seems to be badly done overall (aside from the whole Fantina bit, which going by the amount of episodes Ash wasn't able to face her, someone definitely would have ratted her out by then, since Ash definitely couldn't have been the sole trainer to try and face her even if we argue there's more than eight gyms in Sinnoh, we also have the issue of Lola managing to very blatantly violate the "Unsafe" and "Uncool" rules that would allow for automatic shutdown according to Cerulean Blues and somehow getting away with it. And we know they had to have passed Pewter Gym by that time since Nurse Joy made it VERY clear that Cerulean Gym was the last stop for her at Kanto).

If there was no issue with Gym Leaders traveling, Misty wouldn't have even NEEDED to stay at the Gym after Daisy and the others returned. And please don't give me the whole "they're incompetent" excuse. So was Lola and Flint (and arguably Forrest since despite being the actual Gym Leader didn't seem to be able to stop Lola from having the gym given an even WORSE paint job), in fact, they're so incompetent going by Family that Battles Together Stays Together they made Misty's sisters look like they actually knew what they were doing, yet that never stopped Brock from still pursuing his goal at the time. And that's not even getting into the issue with Candace where she's pretty much stuck with being a gym leader and hopes to actually travel (based on that episode with her and Zoey). And I think the fact that Fantina got away with it under EXTREMELY implausible circumstances is sign enough that it's just a badly developed plot point (much like how, going by Cerulean Blues' Zero Tolerance Policy for "Unclean, Unsafe, Uncool", Pewter Gym would have been automatically shut down via Lola's antics even before Brock returned, yet clearly wasn't).

And you ARE aware that there's plenty of stuff on various articles that, going by your definition are "headcanon", right? And that's not even counting Shipping articles. If anything, your definition of headcanon is the one that's extreme, since it seems to indicate the characters have to explicitly state it in precise terminology or else it's pure headcanon, even when there's a thing called inference. To give an analogy, using your argument, Zaslav being eaten by his own dogs in the ending of The Most Dangerous Game is "headcanon" just because they don't explicitly state/show it, even though the ending clearly implies it with the narrator mentioning he never slept in a more comfortable bed (the deal earlier was that the narrator and Zaslav were to have a duel, and that the winner will sleep in the bed for the night while the loser gets to be killed and fed to Zaslav's hunting dogs). If we were to follow your definition of headcanon, there wouldn't even BE a wiki since literally everything would qualify as "headcanon" outside of an extreme limited few exceptions that are explicit. And considering the mods were the same ones who tried to push one of the characters as a trans allegory despite even The Pokémon Company denying it a little while back, I'm not too trusting of the mods right now. Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 12:12, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

"If there was no issue with Gym Leaders traveling, Misty wouldn't have even NEEDED to stay at the Gym after Daisy and the others returned. And please don't give me the whole "they're incompetent" excuse. So was Lola and Flint (and arguably Forrest since despite being the actual Gym Leader didn't seem to be able to stop Lola from having the gym given an even WORSE paint job), in fact, they're so incompetent going by Family that Battles Together Stays Together they made Misty's sisters look like they actually knew what they were doing, yet that never stopped Brock from still pursuing his goal at the time."

It's not even an excuse, though: Misty's sisters ARE incompetent. Outside of that, Misty could have simply felt comfortable with running the Gym even after her sisters came back. Either way, there's nothing to indicate that she was forced to remain as Gym Leader after they came back.

"And that's not even getting into the issue with Candace where she's pretty much stuck with being a gym leader and hopes to actually travel (based on that episode with her and Zoey)."

She has no one to run the Gym in her place, so she can't travel. There's nothing strange about that. We've gone through this already.

"And I think the fact that Fantina got away with it under EXTREMELY implausible circumstances is sign enough that it's just a badly developed plot point (much like how, going by Cerulean Blues' Zero Tolerance Policy for "Unclean, Unsafe, Uncool", Pewter Gym would have been automatically shut down via Lola's antics even before Brock returned, yet clearly wasn't)."

If that's the case, then it still wouldn't really discredit anything regarding what I said about traveling, since the writers can simply make them travel whenever they feel like it. Either way, there's nothing stating that Gym Leaders are forced to retire if they wish to travel.

"And you ARE aware that there's plenty of stuff on various articles that, going by your definition are "headcanon", right? And that's not even counting Shipping articles. If anything, your definition of headcanon is the one that's extreme, since it seems to indicate the characters have to explicitly state it in precise terminology or else it's pure headcanon, even when there's a thing called inference. To give an analogy, using your argument, Zaslav being eaten by his own dogs in the ending of The Most Dangerous Game is "headcanon" just because they don't explicitly state/show it, even though the ending clearly implies it with the narrator mentioning he never slept in a more comfortable bed (the deal earlier was that the narrator and Zaslav were to have a duel, and that the winner will sleep in the bed for the night while the loser gets to be killed and fed to Zaslav's hunting dogs). If we were to follow your definition of headcanon, there wouldn't even BE a wiki since literally everything would qualify as "headcanon" outside of an extreme limited few exceptions that are explicit."

I can't help but think you're being willfully ignorant here. You know very well that the example you provided is a false equivalence and not even remotely comparable to what I said.

"And considering the mods were the same ones who tried to push one of the characters as a trans allegory despite even The Pokémon Company denying it a little while back, I'm not too trusting of the mods right now."

I have no idea what you're even trying to claim, but I will reiterate that plenty of people watched the episode and never got the impression that Misty "quit" being a Gym Leader. The impression you got is different from the impression other people got; that's why it's ambiguous. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 18:33, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Again, so were Lola and Flint (for goodness sakes, both Grating Spaces and A Family that Battles Together Stays Together literally had Brock having to clean up their messes, and Grating Spaces was even worse as despite Forrest being the ACTUAL gym leader, he couldn't even stop Lola from tarnishing the gym YET again, and that time by her hiring very shady painters who, BTW, later turned out to be Team Rocket in an attempt at burglarizing the gym. And did I mention that Lola's cruddy decorations to the gym AND her nearly drowning several Rock Pokemon out of sheer idiocy in trying to convert their training holes into a swimming pool? Both instances were blatant violations of "unsafe" and "uncool", which going by Cerulean Blues would have made for automatic shutdown ESPECIALLY if the Gym Leader was present during an inspection. If anything, they were SO bad at running the gym that Misty's sisters were FAR more reliable by comparison. Say what you will about Misty's sisters, at least they didn't outright vandalize the gym, explicitly treat gym leading as a disposable hobby like yodeling, or nearly KILL their own Pokemon just to create something they can't thrive in, or for that matter enable it to the degree that they came close to getting their gym burglarized as a result.), yet Brock didn't quit journeying with Ash and co. DESPITE the very blatant evidence that they can't even run a gym responsibly TWICE. And going by DPS02 and how only Flint and Brock were explicitly recognized as Gym Leaders, that makes Lola's antics in both episodes even WORSE.

As far as Misty feeling comfortable about it, considering how Daisy had to outright threaten Misty with handing out badges if she didn't return in A Real Cleffa Hanger, and how long she took as it is to even return to Cerulean City (we know thanks to Episodes 1-7 that it takes a little over two weeks, three weeks tops to travel from Pallet Town to Mt. Moon), it's pretty obvious that Misty didn't feel comfortable about it at all. Want someone actually FEELING comfortable about it? Try Jason Fox from FoxTrot, who's so comfortable with School he was pretty much a black sheep amongst his siblings that he hated being away from School even for vacation. Even in the Alola, Kanto arc, Misty commented about her sisters departure in a manner that indicated she was NOT happy about running the gym, especially while they were absent. In other words, had Misty truly been comfortable running the gym, Daisy wouldn't have even NEEDED to threaten Misty to get her to return.

And if everything was literally determinable by the writer's whims, no rules at all, there wouldn't even be a point to this wiki in the first place, at least regarding the anime.

And what I was referring to with that last comment was the owner of Bulbapedia, aka the guy those mods answered to, claiming that Iono was non-binary, literally less than a day before Nintendo personally shot down that theory. And it's not even the first time Bulbapedia got humiliated like that, as apparently someone know as Metokur exposed you guys as promoting pedophilia. Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 20:00, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Indefinite Block

Hello. The Leadership Board is making the executive decision to block you indefinitely from Bulbapedia. This is due to the excessive unacceptable conflict you have found yourself in throughout nearly two decades on the website. Between the edit wars, the extreme bad-faith comparisons to offensive topics, the lengthy arguing in violation of the talk page policy, and the death threat you made that caused your ban on Bulbagarden Forums, it is clear that you do not give any importance to the code of conduct and the collaborative, kind community we are trying to foster here. It is unfortunate it has come to this, but we as staff are obligated to ensure the health and safety of our community.

You are free to appeal this block after one year, on June 20th, 2025. In the event that you have any questions, we are leaving your user talk page available for you to edit, but know that this is a privilege that can and will be revoked if it is abused in any way. ^Maverick_Nate 14:18, 20 June 2024 (UTC)