Talk:Floette (Pokémon)

AZ's Floette

Surely it deserves a mention here? But where should it go? The NPC section doesn't seem quite fitting. --Wynd Fox 05:10, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, it needs a mention. NPC section for sure.--BigBadBatter (talk) 05:41, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Friend Safari Floette

If you can catch Floette in the Friend Safari, what color will its flower be? Since it depends on the color of the flower bed and/or Poké Radar (for colors without a flower bed), does it have a specific color set for the Friend Safari Floette? -- Pringles 00:51, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

I'm not exactly sure, but I know for a fact that you can catch Flabebe white and orange in normal grass, without needing the radar btw, so I'd assume maybe the Floette in friend safaris are either random or only orange and white. - 050294 (talk) 08:08, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

They're random, I have 2 Friend Safaris with blue and yellow in them. - Blazios _talk 09:10, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Eternal Flower Floette

Info for Eternal Flower Floette has been revealed on Serebii, so I'm adding it as my first contribution to this site. Puppyfaic (talk) 01:19, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Except we don't steal information from Serebii. Wait until it is official. --TruePikachu (talk) 01:21, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

I see. I apologize. I didn't think it would be considered stealing. Puppyfaic (talk) 01:24, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Actually there are videos you could use as a source, so you could find the videos and ask the higher-ups if it's ok to proceed ith the edit.----BigBadBatter 06:08, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

If the videos aren't from an official source, such as Nintendo, we don't allow then as a source. Crystal Talian 06:12, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Ah, fair enough. I imagine that the Floette was generated with a Powersave anyway, so if a Bulbapedian gets one then we may be able t edit it.----BigBadBatter 06:58, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

I say, fuck Gamefreak. The hackers worked hard on spoiling all their coding, we should honor them by being 100% honest about everything we know. Who cares if a bunch of 5-year-olds living on Mars are spoiled, they already take that risk using Igglybuffs and Pikachus to fight Kyogres and Garchomps. Greener223224 (talk) 22:12, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Ok, but the staff has already made their stance on the issue perfectly clear, so unless you're providing a valid source, the answer's still the same. --Pokemaster97 22:17, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflicted) Except we can't be 100% sure that the information is actually accurate. As of right now, the 3DS's software is not able to be data mined by just anyone. As a result, only a very few number of sources can actually give information. For all we know, they could be trolling us. Also, especially with Floette, it could just be dummied-out or never-used data; look at ???-type Arceus, for instance. It might have at one point been intended that the Player battles AZ, who used Floette. The point is, until the information is either official or can be confirmed by anybody, it doesn't go on Bulbapedia, unless an Administrator gives the OK, which hasn't happened yet AFAIK. --TruePikachu (talk) 22:24, 2 March 2014 (UTC), edited --TruePikachu (talk) 22:26, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

But it can be confirmed by anybody with a Powersave 3DS, that's why Latios and Latias have had their mega evolutions added. I don't think this will be a repeat of ???-Arceus, given it has completely different base stats and Light of Ruin. It's clearly intended to be an event of some sort. Even if it does turn out to be a repeat of ???-Arceus, it still needs to be mentioned. Jmvb (talk) 14:14, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Light of Ruin is a real move I Can Confirm because,one, it was found by tons of hackers, two, in the lumios hotel game were you have to remember orders and stuff, the move was said in one of the orders. - unsigned comment from Superbobbobbob3 (talk • contribs)

Although we cannot mention AZ's Floette event Pokémon status, maybe we could at least mention its existence as a non-player character...--Wolfy Harfleur 76700 (talk) 17:25, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

I am a bit confused here. People can add data of unofficially revealed Pokemons like 'Mega Latios' & 'Mega Latias' in their sections, but info regarding 'Eternal Floette' can't be added?

Isn't the source for all of them the same i.e., by using some sort of hack.--LatS (talk) 21:01, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Eternal Flower again

The previous such discussion in 2014 failed to obtain the green-light for inclusion of the Eternal forme's stats in the article. However, thanks to recent developments in the 3DS scene, it is now technically practical to data-mine, and also for anyone else to verify such data.

I dumped the romfs of my game (Pokémon Y) and have the data for the Eternal Flower forme. Yeah, I am a nobody, and if the policy in 2014 has remained the same, I am not an authoritative source either. Nevertheless, here is the data for documentation and future verification:

Stat		Range
		At Lv. 50	At Lv. 100
HP: 74		134 - 181	258 - 352
Attack: 65		63 - 128	121 - 251
Defense: 67		64 - 130	125 - 256
Sp. Atk: 125		117 - 194	229 - 383
Sp. Def: 128		119 - 198	234 - 390
Speed: 92		87 - 158	170 - 311
Total: 551	Other Pokémon with this total
Minimum stats are calculated with 0 EVs, IVs of 0, and (if applicable) a hindering nature. Maximum stats are calculated with 252 EVs, IVs of 31, and (if applicable) a helpful nature.

Learnset is identical to that of other formes, only exceptions being Light of Ruin designated as a level 50 level-up move.

Something of note is that the Eternal Flower forme has a base EXP yield of 243. This could be the first case of a Pokemon having different EXP yields based on its forme. Chenzw (talk) 05:07, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Eternal Floette, yet again.

I understand, and support, omitting a Pokémon that can’t be proven to exist, such as the Gen VI mythicals when X and Y were newer, but currently, anyone has access to technology to power save in their own Eternal Flower Floette. Also, AZ’s a Floette plays a major role in the “plot” of X and Y, and it can even be seen in cutscenes in game.

Currently we have some game data on the Eternal Floette, and in my opinion we should add the rest. --Celadonkey 15:30, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

For what it's worth, we do have all the data on it, it's just on Pokémon X and Y beta#Eternal Flower Floette rather than here. To make that more obvious and accessible, I've added a line to the top of the page linking there. IMO this is enough until/unless the form is ever released, but IDK if you'll feel the same way. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 16:10, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Yeah that’s pretty good. Still it would be nice to have it on the page. Although it isn’t anything I feel strongly about.

Side note: most of the data is on this page, it’s just crossed out by the <! brackets. --Celadonkey 21:20, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Is there any reason we don't have Eternal Flower Floette among Floette's formes in the infobox, along with a Formes section with it? Because if not, I would like to add them. Golden Trainer (talk) 00:11, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Because is was unreleased, hacking is not a legitimate way to obtain a Pokémon. We've made it a point that hacking in not legitimate, and that extends to Eternal Floette.--ForceFire 04:20, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

What does legitimacy have to do with anything? It's still an official form that exists in the game. We treat unreleased content like the Hall of Origin, the Fairy Gem, etc. the same way as everything else. And for items, we list their unreleased appearances in the infobox. For instance, we include the post-Gen 4 appearances of the Jade Orb in its infobox, even though in Gen 5-7 it's just an unused, non-functional leftover from HGSS. How is Eternal Floette any different? Should we remove the Fairy Gem from the Gem article, or Light of Ruin from the Fairy article? Golden Trainer (talk) 04:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Eternal Flower stats

Why is it that we exclude the Eternal Flower form's base stats on this page but include all other unused information about it like its Pokédex entries and signature move? Bandana Hewer Dee (talk) 08:13, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

What would be the point? The only reason it would be useful is in the context of hacking, which we don't encourage. This has already been explained on this very talk page. The Pokédex entries at least provide interesting information about the Pokémon. And I wouldn't be against removing the signature move tbh, as it cannot be "learned" legitimately anyway. Landfish7 08:30, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

We do however include things like Staryu's Gold and Silver egg moves that cannot legitimately be obtained though, which also has no point. Pikiwyn ^talk 10:19, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

I mean, again, at least those are interesting; including those doesn't really promote hacking to the same extent either imo. The difference is that stats really only serve the purpose of being useful to people who actually want to use the Pokémon in battle. By showing the stats, we are implicitly supporting hacking and using the Pokémon, which is against Bulbapedia's standards. It could potentially do more harm to include it than not to. Landfish7 11:05, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Whether something is "interesting" is up to opinion though, there's no real guidelines. Is the Band Autograph interesting enough to have its own page when all the information is on the List of unobtainable items page? I would say no. Is the Fairy Gem? I would say yes. Pikiwyn ^talk 11:36, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

The fact that they were making an alternate form which was meant to have different stats is very interesting and tells us more about the game's development.--Rocket Grunt 15:30, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

I don't think it's very likely that the inclusion or exclusion of the stats is going to convince anyone to start or stop hacking, and even if it did I'd say it's not really our place to try to tell people what they can and can't do when our goal is to provide information (also, what makes it fine to show the stats here but not on the page where they're more relevant?). Bandana Hewer Dee (talk) 17:21, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

As there are no guidelines, how about a vote? Pikiwyn ^talk 01:07, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

(resetting indent) I believe it's not up to a vote, it's up to staff. Landfish7 01:13, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

You're right this topic has been going back and forth on the talk page since 2014. Pikiwyn ^talk 01:20, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

I don't expect this is a fully satisfactory response, but in my own opinion, something like stats and moves imply that the Pokemon can actually be caught, when it can't. By contrast, the dex entry (at least), is more like a bit of extra lore.

I know this still leaves us with something of a contradiction, but that's just my feelings for now. It's possible to remove everything (game-based) about Eternal Floette. Or it's possible to add everything with obvious disclaimers. Or it might even be possible to agree that there's a line between different kinds of data. But anyway: my two cents. Tiddlywinks (talk) 03:14, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

What might your thoughts be on the removal of trivia that mentions hacking, such as how mentions of Wondertomb were removed from Sableye and Spiritomb's pages, with this talk page's discussions cited as reason for removal. I'm not necessarily against the removal of Wondertomb from Sableye and Spiritomb's pages in particular, but do question whether or not it would be appropriate to remove similar trivia from other pages such as Arceus, Munchlax, Regigigas, and Tyrogue on the same basis. Landfish7 04:44, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Hate to bring this up again, but if Eternal Flower's stats are not included on the basis that it is unobtainable without hacking, then should we not remove the base stats of Pokémon (for example Zacian) whose base stats have changed in Scarlet and Violet, but are not obtainable without hacking? Pikiwyn ^talk 20:57, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

I'm not saying we should, just making a comparison. Pikiwyn ^talk 21:02, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

This has now managed to become even more ridiculous by the fact we literally have the stats on the page now, they're just still excluded from the section designated for base stats for some reason. Deliberately withholding information on an encyclopedia is one thing, but now it seems like we're willing to show the stats everywhere except the place people are most likely to look for them. This is (apparently deliberate) bad organisation with no benefit other than supposedly to "stop the hackers", which is neither feasible nor the responsibility of the wiki. Bandana Hewer Dee (talk) 09:22, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

S/V South Area One?

So in the Game Locations section it says Floette can be found in South Province Area One, but that doesn't seem to be correct. It's not included in the list of pokémon on the Area One page. Also, the location data from the in-game pokédex shows that the area it appears in is actually Area Five, and it is in the list of pokémon on the Area Five page.

The same Area One/Area Five mixup can also be found on Flabébé's page.--LazerWulf (talk) 01:13, 21 August 2023 (UTC)