Talk:Sevii Islands

Names

Is there a reason why we're using the names found on the signboards instead of on the town maps and menus for the islands? (Or does it differ by version?) - 振霖_T 09:43, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Y'mean Knot, Boon, Kin, etc.? Well, I can't speak for those who made the articles, but I would assume the signboard names are the proper names of the islands, and One, Two, Three, etc. are used on the map and menus for simplicity's sake. --Pie 02:11, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Then why do all the characters in the game refer to the islands as One island, two island, and so on? They are only mensioned Knot island and such once, on the signposts. Personally, I beleive the signpost names are just nicknames, as every other source refers to them as the numbered names. Also, changeing them back would also help to aleviate a lot of confusion, as people useing this wiki would be most likly useing the numbered names and would have no idea what the signpost names mean. Noname

Since no one has replied, I'll assume everyone agree's with me and that I have permission to move them to their proper names. Unfortunatly I'm too lazy to do it right now, and I want everyone to have a chance to post objections and such. Noname

Um, I think it's the other way around. One Island probably is just a nickname for Knot Island. Tina^☆♫ 18:16, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

While that seems to be the popular consendous, that does not make it true. There is absolutly no proof of that besides the breif mension on the signposts. Noname

Just because the signpost says doesn't make it true. Okay, because then we oughta move Masara Town back where it belongs. After all, Pallet Town is just a nickname. TTEchidna 02:03, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but I think that was sarcasm. If so, then I should mention that they are called the signpost names in only one context (the signposts) and they are called one island and such in every single other medium. Not only is it on the maps but every single character refers to them as one island and such. There is nothing to suggest the numbered names are not the proper names, and unless we get proof it is all speculation. If that was not sarcasm, then thanks for agreeing with me. Noname

The maps indicate nothing but the towns' names as One Island, Two Island, and so on. The proof is in the games, they're Knot, Kin, Boon, and so on. TTEchidna 08:08, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Towns? Don't make me laugh. Half of those can hardly be called towns and the obvious reason why the maps refer them as such is because that's where the pokemon (OMG no capitalization!) centers are located. Also the seagallop takes you to "One Island" not "Knot Island" and really, what is the point of nameing towns as islands? It's illogical, and as I said before, all the characters refer to them as the numbered names. If you look down a little bit, you'll see a quote by Bill calling it one island. Noname There. Is. No. Proof. Only. Speculation.

Route 4? Route 10? Both have Pokémon Centers, yet they aren't towns. The town of One Island is quite a bit more developed than Kindle Road is; heck, it's bigger than Pallet. I mean Masara. Pallet's the nickname.

Plus, well, we've had the characters calling things wrong names before. Game scripts aren't perfect. What the best thing to do would be is to go to the original Japanese script, translate what those signposts say, and see if it means anything.

...and then we'd need to make One Island (island). Like hell we're removing the towns. That'd be like calling Celadon "just a place in Kanto where there's a Pokémon Center". TTEchidna 18:28, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Also, Navel Rock and Birth Island. If those two have names why don't the others? TTEchidna 18:39, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Look, Pallet town has been called that in many forms of media, but the signpost names are only mentioned breifly, and not even by a character. The one island town consists of the comunications center and a couple houses, and should be considered more of a settlement. And unless we have proof that one island and such are nicknames we will have to call them as the game does. ...Celedon city is a very large and important city by the way, but the Sevii Islands settlements are usually small and unnamed. I'm not suggesting we get rid of the town pages, just that we return the island ones back to where they belong. Noname And as for Navel Rock and Birth Island; no idea. They are event islands so it could mean all manner of things. Perhaps they didn't want to name them 8 and 9 islands?

By the way, I've been reading the pokemon special manga summaries on serebii.net (very detailed summaries I might add), and noticed that they refer to one island as simply one island, but is is known as the knot island (that means it's a nickname). Granted it was a summary (I already said it was detailed though) and the manga is not nessesaraly regaurded as canon, but it's the best we've got and almost certainly proves that one island and such are the real names. Noname

But then that is speculation. I say that, because the eighth and ninth islands are known as Navel Rock and Birth Island, the rest of the islands themselves are known as Knot, Boon, Kin, and so on. Maybe the "small island" Bill is talking about is the actual little island the town is on, but the overall mass made by Treasure Beach, One Island, Kindle Road, and Mt. Ember is Knot Island. After all, Route 28 doesn't technically enter Johto; the western portion is known as "Silver Cave". They have the exact same wild Pokémon, though.

And as for its status as a "settlement". What the hell is Pallet? Red's house, Blue's house, Oak's lab. Nothing else. At all. The Sevii towns are small on purpose, otherwise they might as well have included Johto in FRLG. Hell, Three Island is bigger than Azalea! If that's a settlement, then Azalea's just a drive-thru whale in the middle of a field.

And the signposts are in the games, therefore, the games do seem to imply that that's what the names of the islands are. That's the proof.

Plus, um. Serebii. Yeah, the guy who uses the direct romanization and doesn't update the summaries when new information is added (of course, it's pretty much him alone behind the thing so yeah). Plus, the issue with those cross-canon things is that there's always always always more of a chance someone will screw up and name it wrong. After all, Lapras used Cold Beam once... TTEchidna 19:45, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Look, I may be doing some speculation of my own here, but the it sure is more proof then you've brought here. All you have is "maybe's", and that just isn't going to cut it. So why don't you figure out when you've been beaten and change the names to the ones widly accepted by most people? Now I don't really care about the "town/settlement" problem, do what you want with that, but the special manga has the best portrayal of the games of them all, and we don't really have any other sources for the debate. The numbered names are in the games too, and much more prominently I might add. Noname Also, please don't bash serebii. I don't see you updating those Pokemon Mystery Dungeon 2 pages, and all the (manga's) info checks out with what we have here. (He didn't even write those summaries, some guy named "Coronis" did)

Who says they're widely accepted? You are not everyone. I accept their names as Knot, Boon, Kin, Floe, Chrono, Fortune, Quest. Tina does. Pie does. The only reason that people don't know their names is because no one freaking reads the signboards anymore anyway! They walk into town and it says ONE ISLAND in the top left corner. They assume (incorrectly!) that One Island is the entire thing, not just the stupid little town. They've been at these names for a while now and really, it doesn't matter. Essentially, "Knot Island" itself matters very little, since it's really just a sub-region of the Sevii Islands. Let's just hop on a boat to Shinou, though. Might wanna take it up with Hikari and Satoshi, too. We tried the "most accepted name" thing in the past, really, it never works out because someone comes along and says "WHY USE ENGLISH DUB NAMES 4KIDS/PUSA SUX" and decides to move them.

And the numbered names in the games, again, pretty much refer to the towns.

I don't update the MD2 page because I don't have MD2. If I did, I would. I updated the DP pages like no tomorrow after I got my hands on it, though. TTEchidna 20:16, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Lot's of people read the signposts, they just beleive (correctly) that it's just a nickname. People also think it's called one island not just because of the name in the upper-left corner, but because the sea-gallop says it is taking you to "one island" and because they don't see why they would name a town one island. Why would they name a "stupid little town" one island when it is so obviously not a island? Also two people are not the entirity of the comunity, nor do they speak for nintendo who happened to make the game and desided to number the sevii islands. Also, will you quit comparing this to the japanese names problem? As far as I know, they do not call them Knot island and so on in japan, they call them the same names (in japanese of course) and until you give me an example of a contry where they do call them that, shut up! Noname I just brought up the PMD thing because nobody seems to have worked on it much dispite it coming out almost a week ago.

No they don't. Plenty pass right through towns without bothering to read them since now the "where am I?" is answered by the popup thing.

The Seagallop also says it's taking you to Vermilion City, not to Kanto. That point is moot, it tells what city you're going to.

As far as you know. Well the name had to come from somewhere! Unfortunately, I don't have FR or LG in any language other than English, so I can't do anything about it. And here's an example of a country where the islands are called by name (not the cities, the ISLANDS, remember): the United States. The United Kingdom. Australia, here we come! TTEchidna 00:00, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the pop up thing usualy answers they're questions, but a lot would be mildly curious enough to read the signposts. Also, your point is moot, because Kanto is a huge country and the islands are quite smaller then that. And they aren't even as large as cities, but whatever. I still can't beleive we're argueing over something as obvious as its name. I mean really, do you really think nintendo would be so convulated as to give it as secret name at a place where "few bother to read it"? Wouldn't they go streight out and tell us what its name is? And why would they name a city "one island"? That's just stupid. Will you please stop trying to insist that it's named something it's not, and just accept it simply a nickname? Noname

Why would they name a city "One Island"? Same reason why it's "Cerulean City". What's the difference between naming it a number and naming it a color?

As for the size, the islands are most certainly larger than cities. Maybe not Goldenrod-sized, but certainly comparable to Violet and Ecruteak.

And for the names, don't forget that Nintendo mentioned a grand total of ONE time in Generation I the name of the region RBY took place in, and even then it was only in Japanese versions! Talk about secret.

I'm only insisting that that's their names because, uh duh, that's their names. Why would they name an island One Island? Knot Island makes more sense, why would they even put it on the sign if it didn't matter?! Plus, remember, Navel and Birth are part of the Sevii Islands, the old woman in Seven Island town proves it, saying "It's not because there's seven (because there isn't), it's because they were made in a week according to legend". TTEchidna 05:08, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I wasn't doubting it was named after a number, in fact I was saying quite the oposite. And as for the secret, that was way back when there was no johto, so there was no need to call it anything other then the world of pokemon because there were no other regions. Now they named the island after numbers so people could remember them easier, nothing more. And again, why would they call a city an "island"? The signs are simply nicknames, and I don't think they ever meant them to be anything more. If it's your prefrence, you can call them knot island and such, but they should be called one island (and such) first and knot island (and co) second. And just remember, you can get to navel rock from emerald too, and while it and birth island are usualy grouped together with the sevii islands, they are not part of the origional seven. Noname

Then how come they bothered to mention it in the Japanese games? Are you saying the region wasn't Kanto until Gen II, then?

No, they named the cities after numbers. Hover over them. What is "ONE ISLAND"? The freaking CITY. Not the whole damn island.

As for the signposts being "just nicknames", I suppose it's just a nickname that New Bark is where winds of a new beginning blow? Because it couldn't be the starting town of Gen II. The signs mean nothing, ever, right?

Not part of the original seven as well? Ha! They're in the middle of the fricking maps. That's like saying Southern Island isn't part of Hoenn.

They stay at their current names. There's no reason for them to be moved, and if anyone searches One Island notice that they get a disambiguation page anyway, which they would even if the pages were at their numeral names. TTEchidna 00:14, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh it was still Kanto, there just wasn't any reason to call it that. I should point out that Kanto means "east" and Johto means "west". And if you think about it, you'll realize that the numbers are obviously meant to refer to the islands. Also, you seem to be avoiding the greatest hole in your theory; WHY WOULD THEY NAME A CITY AN ISLAND?!!! I don't know what you're talking about with that new bark town thing, but we should move the pages to their numbered forms and simply add a note about the nicknames. Now about the event islands, while they appear in the region of the sevii isles, that does not make them their own islands, complete with number. After all, there are several islands separated from the main landmass that are still considered part of the islands (ex; mt. ember is still part of one island). And there is plenty of reason to move them, after all they are the names most (not all, you don't) people use when referring to the islands, and some people wouldn't know which island you were talking about when they see something like boon island on a page. By all means, keep the nicknames, but as nothing more then a redirect and a small note on each page. Noname

Why would they name a city "X Island"? Look at Kanto. Where's Blaine's Gym? It's not Cinnabar City. It's Cinnabar Island. The TCG screwed that up, but the Gym is on Cinnabar Island, a city that happens to be on an island, just like all of them in the Sevii Islands.

And Mt. Ember is part of Knot Island. One Island is the town. And let's see, how many agreed with me on their names being Knot, Boon, Kin, Floe, Chrono, Fortune, Quest, Navel, Birth and not One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six, Seven, Navel, Birth? Sevii Isle 8 and 9 are even beta areas, proving that the number names are for separate things, at least in the English-language versions. What's the Japanese text on the signposts, does anyone know? TTEchidna 18:09, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

It is called Cinnabar Island instead of Cinnabar City because first off, it isn't much of a city. Just a pokemon center, gym, and a laboratory. Second, that's ALL there is. Just the island and no other landmarks. In the sevii islands, the main part is named after the island because that's where you dock off when you sail to One island and such, and the other parts are named after the landmarks, but it's still part of the islands. It is utterly rediculous to think that the cities are named after the islands, because they are cities, not islands. That is common sence. Noname

Hello? Is anybody here? If noone replies within a week I'm going to assume I can start changing the name back to their proper ones. Simply assuming the names you are given are not the correct ones with no proof goes against everything a wiki stands for. Noname For gods sake, there is no logic in thinking a city is named one island, when it is obviously not an island.

There's no logic in naming a town Vermilion when it's very obviously more orange than red. You're not changing them to anything besides what names they are; for all intents and purposes, if you say that "Knot Island" is wrong, then let's head back to the Indigo Region. TTEchidna 17:48, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't see your logic. And I certainly don't see the logic in nameing the islands after their nicknames just because you don't like the other ones. This is a wiki for gods sake! You're not supposed to make rash assumptions like this! Noname

Name origin?

Nanashima means "seven islands", but what about the vii in the English "Sevii"? Could it be from the Roman numeral VII, seven? --TTEchidna 04:00, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Probably a crruption of Seven itself. Optimatum^Talk|Links30 Apr 2008

VII in Sevii seems to make sense, considering what the concept is based upon. --Jonouchi 21:03, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

East and southeast?

Why east?

Bill says: "There's this little island in the far south called One Island."

Far south, as opposed to east. I've always thought of that as further south than the Orange Islands, so them both being south wouldn't be a problem.

It's because the guidebook artwork has the little ship that takes you to the islands going east, so people tend squabble over whether it's east (like the picture) or south (like the in-game text), so it's just easier to say southeast. --Greengiant 01:46, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

That's stupid. Why does SeaGallop have to be Sevii-exclusive? There can easily be islands or other landmasses to the east. Does the S.S. Tidal only go to Lilycove and Salteport? No, it also goes to other places, like the Battle Frontier. So, why can't the SeaGallop? I vote that southeast is replaced with south. - Jonah 01:58, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I agree. But perhaps there is other evidence I don't know about. --Greengiant 05:48, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

heißt das es sevii islands 22 und 23 gibt?--Fahrenheit 12:25, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Anime Map Needed

We need a picture of the anime map mentioned in the article that shows the Orange Islands are south of the Sevii Islands. Reason: the Orange Island page shows the Orange Islands drectly to the south of Kanto. One of the two maps is wrong. That or the person who added the information about the anime map worded it wrong. We need the map image to know for sure.--LynnCreed 18:06, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Far as I know, Sevii's east and southeast of Kanto, not directly south. The anime map puts the Sevii Islands, New Island, and the Orange Islands as insets, much like Alaska and Hawaii on a map of the US... and I don't think those are right next to each other... TTEchidna 19:04, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

That's the current movie map that is. If you look at the Orange Islands map from Movie 2, it's pretty much identical to the Sevii Islands and the archipelago they're based on in real life. It seems to me that the anime had to rearrange Orenjishima when they decided that Nanashima was in the anime too, and that they weren't intermedia counterparts of each other. But based on real world maps, there's no such archipelago that looks like the current interpretation of the Orange Islands, but there is an island string that is the Sevii, and it's due south of Kanto. Satosuke 20:17, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Is this it? -- Hohoo 13:33, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Random thought: the Sevii Islands is Nintendos way of giving us Orange Islands in game.

(note: cross posted on pokemon wikia.)

The common wisdom Orange Islands has never been in an official Pokemon game. I reckon the Sevii islands is the closest Nintendo done to making the Orange islands. It's so similar, except for name. Hear me out.

Evidence 1

"Prima, known in the video games as Lorelei, a local Pokémon Master and member of Kanto’s Elite Four (this would be later referenced in Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen’s Sevii Islands)"

She plays a VERY important part in the (short/tacked on) story of the Sevii islands. In the anime, she was on in the orange islands while in the game she was in the Sevii islands - they didn't explain the change at all.

Evidence 2

In Pokemon 2000 (2nd movie), they mention Moltres is thought to have originated in "a remote part of the Orange Islands". Of course in FireRed/LeafGreen, it is obtainable from the peak of Mt. Ember (on Knot Island, the first of the Sevii Islands). Zapdos and Articuno are still available in the the same places.

Of course, there are many more islands in the Orange Archipelago than the Sevii Archipelago, it would be hard to navigate ingame otherwise. Also note that most cities (for example Viridian City) is much different in the game than in the anime. Put it down to artistic licence.

I think wanted the Orange islands in a game for completeness, Nintendo's addition of the Sevii Islands is the closest thing we'll ever get. All we needed is a renaming of the islands + Profressor Ivy + GS Ball + Celebi + Laprases + the character Tracy Sketch and we'd be done :D Sge 06:25, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

First of all, those two points are hardly sufficient to indicate that the Sevii Islands were intended as an [[1]] of the Orange Islands. Those points are hardly integral to the point of the Orange Islands. Lorelei's role is completely different in the games, and if Game Freak really wanted the Sevii Islands to be included in the games (and I doubt they do), they might have made it have, say, its own set of Gyms, or a Lugia obtained by bringing the three legendary birds to a particular island or something. Instead they made the Sevii Islands a unique set of locations with their own history and landmarks, completely unrelated to the anime.

Secondly, this is speculation and belongs on the forums, not here. --Andy^P_K^M_N 16:29, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Why?

Can someone please tell me why we consider this a region? I never really understood why Iml908 22:42, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Why wouldn't we consider it a region? It is a large topographical area containing many settlements, landmarks, and routes. That's pretty much the definition of a region. Not to mention that it isn't really part of any other region. --Andy^P_K^M_N (talk) 22:49, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Origin of name.

The alias of Izu islands(伊豆諸島) is Izu Seven islands(伊豆七島). Sawamular101 12:34, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Error

"The Sevii Islands is the only area in the extended Kanto region where Generation II Pokémon can be obtained." How about Wobbuffet in Cerulean Cave? Tk3141 21:37, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

I have changed the page and removed the error. Tk3141 17:59, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Names: Knot Island/etc vs One Island (town)/etc

The current distinctions are terrible and mistaken. These names are, at worst, interchangeable, and we should not be mixing our usage of them. We should not have pages at Knot Island and One Island (town), we should either have "Knot Island" and "Knot Island (town)" (if we will presume that Knot Island is the "official" name for One Island in any occurence) or we should have "One Island" and "One Island (town)" (if we will follow the all but universal in-game usage).

The quotes from FRLG below show that "One Island"/etc are unequivocally used to refer to the whole island.

• "The POKéMON are in the ROCKET WAREHOUSE on FIVE ISLAND." (If you want to suppose that Five Island just refers to the town area (where that title appears when you enter it), then the Rocket Warehouse is not in Five Island (town), it is in Five Isle Meadow. I.e., this quote only makes sense if "Five Island" refers to the whole island.)
• "There’s this little island in the far south called ONE ISLAND."
• "BILL: Here we are! This is ONE ISLAND. There are several islands around here, and this is one of them." ("[T]his is one of them" does not make sense if he is referring to One Island only as a town.)
• "THREE ISLAND is actually the most populous of the islands here."
• "When it evolves, I’m going to play a game on TWO ISLAND." (You wouldn't say "on" a town, you would say "at".)
• "I need to fish on SEVEN ISLAND." (Again, "on" would not be said for a town.)
• "The island next to this one’s called TWO ISLAND."
• "It’s supposed to be on ONE ISLAND, but I haven’t found one yet." (Again, "on" instead of "at". This is also referring to the Ruby in particular, which is on Mt. Ember, which is on One Island/Knot Island (i.e., again, it makes no sense unless "One Island" refers to more than just the town).)
• "My place is the house with the red roof on THREE ISLAND." ("On" instead of "at".)
• "Not many people live on TWO ISLAND." ("On" instead of "at".)
• "A cave which is covered by water and ice on FOUR ISLAND." (Description of Icefall Cave)

In short, One Island/etc is how the people call the whole island/area in the games. It is definitely not just the name of/for the town area. If we want to take "Knot Island"/etc as official over "One Island"/etc for the whole island, then we need to apply that to the town areas as well. It is not logical to do otherwise.

...FWIW, I actually subscribe to the idea that Knot Island/etc are (at best) more nicknames than official. That better matches the format of other town signs. For instance, compare "Vermillion City / The Port of Exquisite Sunsets" and "Four Island / The Warm, Blue, Floe Island"; the location* is named first, then it's given a poetic tagline. That's all it's supposed to be IMO, poetic/descriptive, not an official name. Also, I'm not an expert on what does or doesn't qualify as a "name" in Japanese, but the Japanese for Four Island/Floe Island's sign is ここは 4のしま / あたたかく あおい こおりしま, and IMO "こおりしま" (equivalent to "Floe Island") is just descriptive, not a name. To be honest, I would be very happy if we could revisit that entire discussion and just undo the decision to consider "Knot Island"/etc the "official" names in the first place.

Tiddlywinks (talk) 12:42, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

I agree with all the above. The current distinction is an entirely Bulbapedia-made convention, which has no precedence in any of the official media. I'm all for the move. --Maxim (talk) 15:01, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

I personally am also inclined to agree with the above, information, however I'd just like to point out this isn't just a Bulbapedia thing, several websites refer to them this way. Hey Tiddlywinks, if you don't mind me asking where did you find the script? --Spriteit (talk) 15:05, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

For the English script I just referenced Abcboy's table of links. For the Japanese, I just made a very crude "dump" of a Japanese FireRed game (literally all I did was convert everything as if it were text; so all the game text is findable, but it's a far cry from a "proper" text dump). From a brief search, I also found this Japanese video that shows Three Island's sign. Tiddlywinks (talk) 15:56, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

To Spriteit: The sole reason why some fansites use the same convention is because they use Bulbapedia as a source (even if they don't admit it). Also, fan-made websites are not a valid argument because they are... well, fan-made. --Maxim (talk) 17:39, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

I forgot Abcboy had a list of the scripts. And I wasn't saying that the websites were or were not using bulba as a source just saying that we aren't the only one. Looking at the scripts, I too am for the change to move the islands to their proper names as referrred to in the game script outside of the flavour text. This is further evidenced by the use of the locations always being referred to in all caps in the game (ONE ISLAND) and the secondary names just being camel cased (Knot Island). --Spriteit (talk) 02:37, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

I was just thinking about this. Tiddlywinks is right and there is no reason to present the names as if they referred to different locations since the non-numbered titles are just nouns and/or adjectives used to describe the islands. The Pokémon Company calls them by the numbered names as well. SatoMew2 (talk) 20:19, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Reorganization

As part of renaming the articles, I decided to clean them up and merge the towns and the islands. There's no reason to keep them separate (they have the same name and anyone would logically associate the two). I removed a lot of fluff because it repeated information from the articles for the important locations on each island. SatoMew2 (talk) 23:55, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Part of Kanto?

Are the Sevii Islands truly part of the Kanto region? This article and some other articles/templates (e.g., cuttable plant, Waterfall (move), Pokémon Day Care, Template:Regions) treat them as such, but other articles/templates (e.g., Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen Versions, list of routes, Kanto, Template:TrainerNav) treat them as a separate region. Which is it? Do we actually know for sure? Pale Prism (talk) 10:06, 8 December 2020 (UTC)