Talk:Snivy (Pokémon)

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origin

Given that the "ja" means "snake" (acording to Pokebeach), I think it is safe to assume that Tsutaaja is based on a snake. Mind putting that in the page? --Deuxhero 00:54, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

The same post that told us these names on 2ch, said Tsutaaja is the くさへびポケモン (Grass Snake Pokémon). Tsuta (蔦) means ivy and Ja is another reading for hebi (蛇), which means snake.--KurowaSan 01:02, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

How many snakes do you know have feet? I doubt that is a correct translation. ^Maverick_Nate 01:34, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

The translation is pretty accurate, the source may be not. But the source has nailed the description of the protagonists, the region name, the fact that the other starters were a fire pig and a sea otter before the scans leaked... And I have seen freaky snakes with legs.. XD Mutations nonetheless. And that would be "Grass Snake" as in a snake of/from grass, not as in the real world species "Grass Snake".--KurowaSan 01:41, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

There actually is a type of snake with legs, albeit really small ones. It's native to Australia, if I remember right. I know they have one at the Cairns Zoo, anyway. Reign 02:13, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opheodrys_aestivus this doesn't have feet, but it looks like tsutaaja Kanjo 12:38, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxybelis_fulgidus I would sooner assume Tsutaaja is based off of a Vine Snake. In fact, I'd say it's fairly definite. Flint 20:50, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I think Origin should just mention grass snakes (green kind mostly) instead of getting very technical with species, seeing as there is far too many snakes that Tsutaaja may be based on. And maybe that early tidbit of a very few snakes having legs could also be mentioned. And is it just me, or does the collar it has kinda makes it resemble an unripened banana? Mudkipchan 21:07, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

It looks to me as though Tsutaaja may have been based off of a skink of sort, however skinks are closer related to lisards than snakes. I also think because this is a Pokémon that the collaring may have just as likely come from the fact that it is a grass type species. EpicShadow 9:12, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

bad grammar in the Origin section

Can we fix this?: "Tsutaaja may be based off a lizard or a snake. Its shared traits with boths make it similar to skinks." It should be "... with both makes it similar...". my dictionary and i are fairly sure "boths" isn't a word and the grammar in that sentence is atrocious anyway. --Lulu chan126 22:26, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

images

Uhh, I have the three guys images saved, to upload, if a mod can do that... [1][2][3] Megadog 05:12, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

As do I, but I Beilieve the Admin isn't allowing editing for those Images . . . not that any are even there. --Lordrogersmith6485 07:58, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I've seen them on Legendary Pokémon fan site. Not sure if it is okay to use them. Kevzo8 13:27, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

sprites too, along with zoroark's...[4] - unsigned comment from Megadog (talk • contribs)

height

the height and weight of it is 0.6 m and 8.1 kg - unsigned comment from Pokemonemerfan1954 (talk • contribs)

Got a source that isn't Serebii? —darklordtrom 10:57, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Filb.de, trom. Kevzo8 13:36, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Acceptable Speculation?

Is it alright to add in details that have been present for all of the Pokemon starters so far; such as EXP At Level 100, EXP Yield, and Gender Ratio? After four generations of Pokemon games having them identical, it's highly unlikely to be different this time. Plasma 11:36, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Passing off unsourced speculation as fact is bad. —darklordtrom 11:45, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

You say that, but the starters all have National Dex numbers (494, etc.). Where does that information come from? I know it's an educated guess, but at the moment it's still just a guess. The same goes for the types - do we know they're all pure types? ~ Serial Colour 13:46, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

We know at least one of their types. So we put that. TTEchidna 18:28, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Should we at least list their secondary types as Template:Type2 to indicate that we only know their primary types? -KinCryos 07:19, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Name romanization

Why are we romanizing the name as "Tsutaaja"? Manual of style/Romanization states that macrons should be used instead of doubling letters, unless the trademarked romanization begs to differ. And there is no trademarked romanization (I scoured the trademark database last night) - we don't even have official confirmation that these are the starters' names.

I mean, I personally don't like macrons, but shouldn't we romanize it as "Tsutāja," as per the MoS? 梅子^❀_✿ 17:45, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Most people would link to the redirect anyway... TTEchidna 17:57, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't we just call it Tsutaja? When Pocchama was first revealed it was just romanized as Pochama on this site. T a r o m o n 21:47, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

It's not going to stick this way anyway, I'd just leave it. Unless we rename the page Smugleaf. - MK (^t/_c) 03:22, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

No, we should use this name 'tsutaaja' till we don't gate its official English name..! -Amitrc7th

FYI, this site would prefer to use trademarked romaji if it's available. We never romanized ポッチャマ as Potchama or Pocchama because we were given both the official katakana and the official romaji (Pochama) on the same day. We should have official romaji soon, and I'm pretty sure that no official romaji has ever used a macron, so this whole issue should be a moot point soon. Drapion 06:59, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Height and Weight

Got this from Pokebeach:

Height: 0.6m (2ft)

Weight: 8.1kg (17.9Ibs) --Dialgafan1 00:02, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, you don't really have to look at pokebeach for that one. You can just look at the scans. XD

But yeah, those (in metric system) are accurate. And I don't really understand why haven't anyone added those. o_O They added the ability and species, but those are on the very same scan as height and weight. Also, the name origin is pretty much a given already. Can someone add all those, please?--KurowaSan 04:56, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

In the anime

Tsutarja, is a reptile-based Grass-type starter Pokémon. Since Ash Ketchum (Satoshi) has captured all the Grass-type starters and most of reptile-like Pokémons, it is highly possible that he will get this Pokémon somehow in Black and White saga (if he is going to appear in this anime saga). -Amitrc7th

That's speculation. Bulbapedia has rules against speculation, so it won't be added to the page until he catches it (if he does). By the way, please put new comments at the bottom of the page. Werdnae (talk) 08:47, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Please bring these conversation to the forums.--ForceFire 10:24, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Sprite

Here's the sprite I uploaded onto Bulbagarden Archives from CoroCoro: Dialgafan1 18:44, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

File:SpriteTstuaaja.png

This needs to be moved.

To Tsutāja. You know, long a's and stuff. vik0z0z 19:45, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I believe that the reason the article is at Tsutaaja for the time being is that we want to avoid using extraneous characters whenever possible in page titles. For some reason, it puts a strain on the server. At least, that's what I recall us deciding awhile back... I could be wrong, though. Either way, the double "a" indicates the same sound without the special character. --P o L i 19:48, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Origin

Haven't you noted Tsutaaja's striking resemblance to this gecko? A reptile with a tail that looks like a leaf. It has rather huge eyes, too, just like Tsutaaja. - D-Wheel 21:34, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Eh it's a possibility, but since it's a "snake" Pokémon I doubt it...«ιɴsσмɴιαc» 07:35, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

But do we have any snakes that also have a leaf-like tail? Sure snakes with legs exist, but Tsutaaja does seem to have characteristics of both snakes and lizards. I don't think this debate will ever end... Mudkipchan 16:33, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Hey look, it's a Treecko. ~m190049^~talk 00:42, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

I really think this might be a glass snake. They're actually lizards, but they resemble snakes. The leafy tail must be just decoration. :P -- Professional Mole (Talk here) 14:04, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

We will know more about this Pokémon come the English-language release (or, if we're lucky, the Jp release). Until then we will go on the most vague sort of information we've got. —darklordtrom 06:46, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Physiology

"Tsutaaja is a Grass-type lizard-like Pokémon. " That should read "Tsutaaja is a Grass-type Snake Pokemon" or "snake-like Pokemon"

It's Japanese name and species name clearly define it as a snake, regardless of whether or not it has legs, officially, it is a snake. -Daisuke

Appearance wise, it's a lizard.--ForceFire 04:16, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Not necesarilly. There are types of snakes with legs. If anyone has a list of animals at Cairns Zoo in Queensland, Australia, they have them there. Reign 08:05, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Name dispute

As stated here, http://www.pokabu.com/ and http://www.mijumaru.com/ are both correctly registered by TPCi, but there's no tsutaaja.com. There is a correctly registered http://www.tsutarja.com/ though. This is the closest we'll get right now to a trademarked name, and this romanization has been used on other sites before. Should this be changed?--immewnitythemew 18:21, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Meh, I say keep it as it is, and create Tsutarja as a redirect. CuboneKing 18:25, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

How come? That was a fandone romanization, while this one's official.--immewnitythemew 18:39, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Aren't all romanizations fandone at heart? CuboneKing 18:56, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

...no... It's called trademarked romaji.--immewnitythemew 19:00, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Hm, it seems then that it is Tsutarja. TTEchidna 20:00, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

As well, Filb is calling the Pokémon Tsutāja. Is this just another romanization of the name? –MasterKenobi 05:52, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes. 梅子^❀_✿ 05:57, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

I still don't understand. It's written Tsutaaja, on the show they pronounce it Tsutaaja, there's no other way to read it than Tsutaaja...But they call its Tsutarja? There's a big difference. If it was Tsutarja, it would probably be ツタアルジャ, not　ツタアージャ. --Raktoner 19:45, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

No, that is not how it works. 梅子^❀_✿ 19:46, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

They did pronounce it as "tah-jah" on Pokemon Sunday though. If that means anything. ~m190049^~talk 23:49, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Five char limit in Pokemon, even if they changed the limit for JP games... it wouldn't be ツタアージャ (romanized as "Tsutaa'aja", I believe?), and "アー" can be romanized as an "ar" sometimes. Also... I'm pretty sure they also pronounced "Pocket Monsters" as "poketto monsutaa" on Pokesun (from what I can hear anyway, they talk too faaaaaast). So yeah. D: ▫▫ティナ^♫★ 00:03, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually there isn't a big difference between Tsutaaja and Tsutarja. It's called a non-rhotic r. You may have noticed that people from London or Boston tend to not pronounce the letter r when it's and the end of a word or before a consonant. Well, in Japanese the r sound can only ever come before a vowel, so when the letter r is at the end of a word or before a consonant they tend to approximate the sound with a long a, sometimes written aa. Take my name, Peter, for example. Someone from London or Boston would probably drop the r sound at the end, and likewise the Japanese approximate it as ピーター and pronounce it Piitaa. R's before consonants or at the ends of words are almost always approximated by a long a and not a ル. - unsigned comment from Drapion (talk • contribs)

Exactly, what Drapion said! I still pronounce it the same!--Pokélova! 07:51, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually, that's really interesting. And to think I put a rant about this on pokecharms the other day... But you're right. I just think it's a little on the odd side is all, I guess. --Raktoner 22:35, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Heh yeah the whole thing is sort of strange. Basically they're using an english-ish pronunciation and putting that into Japanese. Using ā for ar/er is common for this. Hamburger is ハンバーガー (hanbāgā), Earnest is アーネスト (ānesuto), Schumaker is シュメイカー (shumeikā), etc. - MK (^t/_c) 03:10, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Bird of Paradise Flower

I know that the new pokemon is based on a grass snake, but if you look at it's snout and it's tail, it reminds me of a Strelitzia a.k.a. the Bird of Paradise Flower. I know that this is a foolish question, but I suggest that you should put that in to what the new pokemon is based of in Origin? - User:Cynthia149 09:12, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I believe this got a "no" when you suggested it before... 梅子^❀_✿ 18:56, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I contacted that question to User:TTEchidna weeks ago, and he said that the origin will be changed when more info is unleashed. You have a look at the flower when the pod is closed, and then you will see the resembelence to this new Pokemon. - User:Cynthia149 20:46, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

If that's what he said, then that's what we're going by. We have not gotten any more information on the starters since then. 梅子^❀_✿ 19:51, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

When the information is unleashed? Is it going to turn into a werewolf? -Sketch 23:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Moves

According to a video, This pokemon either used Razor Leaf or Leaf Storm, I am not sure which...Chomi 09:22, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

It's Leaf Storm, to clarify. ▫▫ティナ^♫★ 14:38, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

But we don't know what level it learns it at, so there's not really anywhere we can put it in the article.--Pokélova! 15:03, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Physiology to be added by admins

I wrote up a physical description of Tsutarja for the Physiology section, since as of now it's pretty sparce. I know there's certain info that can't be added as of now, but I don't see why we can't have basic appearance descriptions. Besides, Pokabu has a much more extensive Physiology section. It's up for use if someone wants to add it.

"Tsutarja is a reptilian Grass-type Pokémon. Most of its body is green in coloration, while it has a cream-colored underside. A yellow stripe runs down the length of its back and tail, and it also has yellow markings around its large eyes. Yellow, curved structures protrude from its shoulders and bend backwards. These structures resemble leaves or small wings and give Tsutarja the appearance of wearing a collar. In spite of being snake-like in appearance, it has fully-developed limbs. Its slender arms are the same green color as the rest of its body and have three fingers, while its tiny feet match its underside in coloration and have no digits whatsoever. It has large, palmate leaf with three prongs on the end of its tail.

~Destruction on Wings~ 02:21, 25 June 2010 (UTC)Togeknight

First Evolution?

In the recent Black/White Anime series leak on Bulbanews, an image was released that includes what looks to be first evolutions for, at the very least, Tsutarja and Mijumaru. I think Pokabu's first evolution is there as well next to the new female character. Either way, is there any way to crop down those images and place them in the articles, or is this a case of "wait for clearer images?" --Phantomjunkie 17:27, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

that thing looks nothing like pokabu...even more so than the whole remoraid octillery thing (Ataro 17:30, 1 July 2010 (UTC))

This is both a case of clearer images. Anything like that would be speculation. It may look the same, but may not be related. We'd need further confirmation. ^Maverick_Nate 17:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Tsutarja's evolution's name is Kenayake (ケナャーケ) Vkickass 21:05, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Even the biggest scans I can find of them are too small for them to be sharpened and still be readable, but the katakana would be ケナヤーケ, not ケナャーケ, which is Kenayaake, but if it follows Tsutarja, it's probably gonna be Kenayarke. --Goldenpelt 23:38, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it says Tsutakake (ツタケーク), but even if that what it says, we have absolutely no idea if that's the final name for it. (I say this because, on the character sheet in question, Tsutarja is called "Ivy" and Mijumaru is called something like "Rakkomaru." Uhh...?) 梅子^❀_✿ 00:04, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

I suggest we leave the matter alone until something official pops up. The character sheet's names are small, and up to interpretation. And even if we manage to find which translation is correct, the name could change at any time. And to that point, the design itself could change since it appeared on beta artwork.--Element03 00:56, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but this was beta artwork for the animé, not the games. I'm sure the finalized versions of the Pokémon were set long before that beta artwork was released.--Phantomjunkie 01:19, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Now that there are actually pages for the (first) evolutions of the starters, shouldn't that be mentioned on the basic Pokémon pages? At the very least, that would be consistent, since it is stated that, for example, Janoby does evolve from Tsutarja. If we are that sure, it should be included here too. Turkadactyl 21:10, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Those pages are currently in the userspace. They aren't totally confirmed. Turtwig's A-B-Cs (talk | contribs) 21:16, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

But considering that they are included in Category:New Pokémon, as opposed to their own article (that says they are speculative) like the possible Stage 2s, wouldn't that assume that Bulbapedia is recognizing them as official? I guess I feel like it's still a consistency issue. At the very least if they're going to be included as "New Pokémon then it should be said on the basic page that it's speculated that they evolve into the higher forms. Turkadactyl 23:45, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

I forgot to mention that they are now confirmed, didn't I? Turtwig's A-B-Cs (talk | contribs) 23:59, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Smugleaf

Since we mentioned the "so i herd u liek mudkipz" internet meme in the trivia section on Mudkip's page, should we mention the "Smugleaf" internet meme in the trivia page for this article? - Gold Dialga

Because "so i herd u like mudkipz" was added to Mudkips trivia it would make sens to put it in there. But do the admins realy want information on something as unofficial as memes? I think it would be best to wait for a response from a member of the Bulbagarden staff. EpicShadow 2:36, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

How far has this new meme spread? "so i herd u liek mudkipz" was a well established meme by the time we added it. Does this even come close? --AndyPKMN 19:47, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

I beleve it was created by a youtuber calld IAMTHEOBNXIOUSDOUCHE. It has three vidios making it a small series, all three vidios currantly have together have 8188 veiws. The first vidio was posted two months ago. The only article I've seen about it anywher els (there may be more outside of this) is KOTAKU who apparently claimed it as there own creation. In short it is not very well known but it is growing.EpicShadow 3:21, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

It's spread to a forum populated almost entirely by Sonic fans, and the users of that forum will probably be referring to it as Smugleaf until the English name is revealed. I think that's pretty far for a Pokémon-related internet meme. - Gold Dialga

If thats true would it be right to say that the meme had earnd it the nickname Smugleaf, because that may be a piece of trivia to mention in the future. (assuming that the official name does not actualy become Smugleaf wich it most likely will not) EpicShadow 3:59, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Basically, most people know Tsutarja as Smugleaf. Its far easier to say/type, and has become widespread. It started literally the first day the starters were announced. _Blake ^Talk·Edits 23:15, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

But that still makes it a fan-made nickname, should we mention it in the trivia section or leave it alone?EpicShadow 7:52, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

I say we mention it in trivia - Gold Dialga

So hey, who remembers the fan nicknames that were given to the fourth-gen starters before their English names were revealed?

...Yeah, that's right, neither do I. And four years from now, I'll bet no one will remember "Smugleaf" either. So, I say not notable. 梅子^❀_✿ 02:43, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/smugleaf --S^hi_ny ^No_ct^ow_l 02:56, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Maybe we should wait until this nickname becomes a little more widespread. The point at which it would be considered widespread enough to add to the page could be decided by the Bulbapedia staff. Steph 03:06, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

The nickname isn't the real dispute its the meme based on a youtube vidio that we thougt should be put in. EpicShadow 10:11, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Can we please just drop it until, as Steph says, things are handled a bit better in the sense we wait? ^ht14 03:13, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Everywhere I looked when the Gen4 starters were released, they were referred to by their Japanese name. Tsutarja, however, seems to carry the name Smugleaf with it everywhere it goes. It's a very widespread nickname from what I can tell. I've yet to meet any Pokémon fan who doesn't refere to it by this nickname so I see no reason for it to be exluded from the trivia section. Less significant things have made it into articals before and stuck. However, this so-called youtube meme... I've never heard of it.Me, Hurray! 02:08, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

If it's name does turn out to be Smugleaf, it'll go down. Just wait. CuboneKing 02:53, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

I think it could be added after we get an English name. Also, I think it should be noted that the name was mentioned in my Official Nintendo Magazine Australia and New Zealand as a popular fan name. --SnorlaxMonster 07:17, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Pics or it didn't happen. —darklordtrom 07:22, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

[5] It's too big for the archives, so I uploaded it to Photobucket. Pics prove it. --SnorlaxMonster 12:55, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

No idea that magazine even existed. I really only wanted the pics for the proof of the magazine :D Can you write an article on it? Also... I think I might just be awesome. Or something :D —darklordtrom 07:53, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

English name

I bet it's "Snivy" or something, like all other Pokémon have similar English and Japanese name meanings. And you all are getting worked up over nothing. When stuff becomes notable, they will acknowledge it. After all, remember that hype in May of 2009? They picked up on it. They knew we wanted it. And then they announced it. TTEchidna 05:11, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

About its National number

Yes. We know. Victini is #000 in the Isshu dex. This means nothing right now about its National number. Think of it this way: they put Victini at #000 so that you'd not know right off the bat getting it how many other Pokémon there are to find, especially given that it's gonna be an early event, like Manaphy. If you got Mew just after you got your starter in RBY, you'd know there's 151 Pokémon in Kanto. Same with Celebi in GSC, Deoxys in RSE, and so on. This is a failsafe to make Pokémon feel less like "let's see how many they added" and more like "oh, there's so many of these things, I wonder what they all are...". Sure, futile anyway, given that we'll likely have access to the games and have figured out everything by the day after it comes out... but still. An admirable solution to that huge-empty-Pokédex problem we've had since Gen I.

Tsutarja, until further notice, is staying at #494. We cannot assume anything different than it directly following Arceus, just as Chikorita followed Mew, Treecko followed Celebi, and Turtwig followed Deoxys. TTEchidna 00:55, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

I completely agree.--Pokélova! 01:07, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Poor Origin Species Choice

The Origin Section on Tsutarja's page lables it as "Opheodrys aestivus, more commonly known as the rough green snake or green grass snake". I honsetly STRONGLY disagree with this noition. Other than the somewhat-similar color scheme, there's not TOO much in common- the face is WAY too different. I think that Tsutarja is MUCH more likely based on a somewhat-popular species known as the Vine Snake. The Vine Snake is a snake species found all throughout the Americas. Specifically notice the very similar pointed nose, that the Rough Green Snake notably lacks. Also note the similar nostril and the very sharp line that passes straight through it's eye. ...Thoughts? ~m190049^~talk 04:25, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

I think you may be right.--Pokélova! 04:29, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

evolutionary lvls

Shouldn't we write evolves at lvl 16 and will evolve a second time at 36. or somthing along thoes lines. Becasue we all know thoes are the evolutionary levles for all starters.--Megamaxxor-- 00:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Confirmation. We need it before we add anything to the articles.--PhantomJunkie 00:09, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Monferno: evolves from Chimchar at 14. Grotle: evolves from Turtwig at 18 and into Torterra at 32. So yeah, it isn't confirmed without confirmation. Turtwig's A-B-Cs (talk | contribs) 00:16, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

NO! Turtwig evolvs at 16 i already checked Megamaxxor-- 00:18, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Turtwig is my favorite Pokémon, I should know. Because that isn't proof, see this article. It says Turtwig evolves at 18. I also know because I have a level 17 Turtwig and it never once said it was going to evolve. Turtwig's A-B-Cs (talk | contribs) 00:26, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

TA's right. We won't know for sure until its officially revealed. There's nothing wrong with waiting. たかはりい 00:29, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Trust me, they could break entirely with tradition here. For all we know, all three of this new country's starters could evolve for the first time at level 30 and the second time at level 55. Yes, if the previous countries' patterns actually counted for anything, this would suggest that all three starters would evolve first at level 16 and the second time around level 36, but there's no guarantee that the country of Isshu has to adhere to any odd-numbered-generation patterns that the countries of Kanto and Hoenn might have otherwise implied...--Shiningpikablu252 00:53, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Anyway, there is no pattern. Currently the starters evolve from level 14-18, then 30-36. There isn't very much consistency, especially not enough for us to assume anything. --SnorlaxMonster 08:10, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Head shaped like Cyndaquil's

I noticed Tsutarja's head is shaped alot like Cyndaquil's head. Would this be worth mentioning in the physiology section? After all, it is also mentioned that Piplup looks a little like Torchic and Pachirisu resembling Pikachu. Also worth mentioning its resemblance to Treecko and all grass starters so far being reptilian? --Brats817 10:10, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Uh... no. First of all, I don't see the resemblance. Secondly, in the two cases you cited, the resemblance is far more than superficial. Piplup and Torchic are both small bird Pokémon with ovoid heads, tiny beaks, etc. When you consider that they're the only bird-based starter Pokémon, that can make for worthwhile trivia. Pachirisu and Pikachu are obviously similar—both are electric-type, small rodent Pokémon which store electricity in their cheeks... but Tsutarja is snake-or-lizard-like, while Cyndaquil is like a shrew; their eyes are noticably different... You need a little more to go on than "their heads are vaguely similar in shape (if you squint)." - unsigned comment from AndyPKMN (talk • contribs)

Well the only reason I mentioned it is only because their heads were similar, and that was the only similarity they have and I thought it would be worth mentioning that one similarity. They don't have to be based on the same animal in order to have a similarity somewhere. (Well of course except for color, that isn't enough of a similarity) Tsutarja's head IS similar shaped to Cyndaquil's head, but only the facial features are different, apart from the nose and mouth being in a similar location on their face. If Piplup's head was differently shaped and had different facial features, it probably wouldn't have been compared to Torchic, and if Pachirisu had no cheek pouches, it probably wouldn't be compared with Pikachu. The only other similarity is that they are birds and rodents, but different species. It's like comparing Taillow to Spearow. But if Cyndaquil and Tsutarja's head shape is not enough to mention as it's their one and only similarity, would it still be enough to mention that all grass type starters so far are reptilian? (Probably best to put it in the starter Pokémon section) Oh and you forgot to sign your comment. --Brats817 21:51, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't see any resemblance at all. I think those other resemblance points should be removed too, save for Lapras/Shellos, as many people did believe they were related by evolution before Gastrodon was revealed. Turtwig's A-B-Cs (talk | contribs) 22:04, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Learnset

We have a beggining of Learnset by levelling-up about Tsutarja (as well as Pokabu, Mijumaru, Zorua, Zoroark, Reshiram, Zekrom, Moguryu and all the other ones) in German at http://www.pokewiki.de - unsigned comment from Wolfy Harfleur 76700 (talk • contribs)

Chlorophyll

Is it worth noting that even though it's Pokédex entry states that it's movements sharpen in sunlight, it cannot have the ability Chlorophyll? - unsigned comment from Pawsrent (talk • contribs)

I don't know. With that new Dream World feature, which gives Pokémon new abilities, Tsutarja could be able to get Chlorophyll as a second ability. Turtwig's A-B-Cs (talk | contribs) 20:50, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Updated origin

Tsutarja is most likely based on Oxybelis fulgidus, a slender snake with a pointed head that inhabits Central America and South America. The Pokémon's combination of snake- and lizard-like features is also similar to that of the skink, more specifically the Neoseps. Neoseps heavilly resemble snakes but have small, stubby legs. Its head and general body shape, as well as its protrusions on its shoulders, are most likely based on the birds of paradise flowers and possibly the false birds of paradise.

050294 00:06, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

National Pokedex #

Won't Victini come before it on the national pokedex making it #455?Captian Obvious 18:05, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

No, it's Carnivine.--でんのう ☢ Zえんし 18:06, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

He means 495, and actually, all we know is that Victini is before Tsutarja in the Isshu Dex, we don't know if they may give Victini a number with the legends since Victini is a legend itself. D: --Psy_ライダー☮ 18:08, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

The National Dex order doesn't always follow the Region Dex order. _Blake ^Talk·Edits 18:44, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm personally of the theory that Victini may even be #000 (inter)nationally. Of course, you could've just scrolled up, since I addressed this when we were told Victini is #000. TTEchidna 01:11, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

A little more on origin

I know it's a bit early to say this, but after seeing the leaked evolutions, I've noticed that the middle evolution seems to have much smaller, deformed limbs, as if it was transitioning to losing its limbs for the final evolution which is more snake-like. Thinking a bit, according to the fossil record, some snakes are descendants of lizards. Meaning it was likely that snakes used to have limbs and eventually lost them as the populations evolved. Tsutarja's evolutions seems to reference that.

Would this be notable to mention in the evolutions' articles? Rai Marshall 01:19, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh look, someone agrees with me. I, too, believe that that Tsutarja is based of off actual evolution, considering that Janoby has smaller limbs than Tsutarja, and the final evo shall have even smaller limbs, if any at all. Most starter evos appear to based on them growing up than real evolution. Tsutarja's doesn't. Black, White, and.... Purple?!? (Phoen!) 18:51, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Losing limbs can happen during a creatures life-cycle. Some species of skinks do lose their arms and legs once they reach adulthood and even more familiar; catterpiler(12 limbs) >> Buterfly(6 limbs). Just thaught I should point that out. EpicShadow 19:09, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Tsutarja and the evolution were made from the image of the Europe and America.

It is described to the developer interview of the magazine named pokemon pia. Sawamular101 17:58, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

It supplements. It is described by the developer, it is "和洋中(wayouchuu)".

Mijumaru 和(Japan).　Tsutarja 洋(Europe and America).　Pokabu 中(China).

"洋" has a hard time translating because it is vague. It is explained, "Foreign country" and "Europe and America" in wiktionary. Sawamular101 19:25, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

On this topic, I noticed something just now. Looking at this image from Pokébeach, it seems Tsutarja has got a Fleur-de-lis design on the back of his neck/collar. Just reading the Wiki article reminds me of Tsutarja. Anyone else agree? Jo The Marten 04:07, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

I think you may be on to somthing, it was stated that Tsutarja's persanality was based on French royalty so that is most lkely what it is supposed to be. I would put that under apperance, somthing like (The Yellow markings on Tsutarja's back are reminiscent of the Fleur-de-lis). - unsigned comment from EpicShadow (talk • contribs)

洋 means "western" (as used from a Japanese/Asian perspective), at least in this case it definitely does. (和食 means "Japanese food", 洋食 means "Western food") Kanjo 13:52, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Anime

File:Tsutarja-anime.png

Tsutarja in the anime

Does this deserve to be added to the anime section of the page? I think it would definetly be an improvement from having nothing. Maybe also adding that Shooti owns one that battles Ash's Pikachu in the first episode. Shokuwarrior 13:01, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Did you have to add a picture that looks exactly like the one I use on my profile? (cept png) Ataro 13:04, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

well this one is better quality which, I thought, is always better. Shokuwarrior 13:09, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Evolution...

Uh.....///... I'm probably late with this, (epicly :O) but... his evo was announced, Janobii, and it hasn't been added to his evolutionary line, nor has a page been created.... I think. >.> --Weruioh Star 21:14, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

They aren't totally confirmed. By the way, its called Janoby here. The page can be found hereTurtwig's A-B-Cs (talk | contribs) 21:16, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

http://shellspider.blog101.fc2.com/blog-entry-253.html Actually it has been proven Ataro 21:21, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

IT HASH BEN PROVEN!!! ...See? :D *shot* --Weruioh ★ Star 21:24, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

I really didn't see that. Doesn't really matter though. I don't have authority here. Turtwig's A-B-Cs (talk | contribs) 21:26, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

One's sitting in the userspace. We'll put it in as soon as we're significantly convinced. Remember Aobasu? TTEchidna 22:17, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

The evolutions were even shown on Oha Suta today when they showcased the CoroCoro issue. Why is Bulbapedia so reluctant on posting them after THIS much confirmation? Surely you don't despise the starter evos to this extent? Marlowe 23:29, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

It was? if that doesnt confirm it I don't know what will...Ataro 23:30, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

It isn't because we hate it. It's because Bulbapedia has seen a previous generation go by, as well as the CoroCoro fake, which made Giruja fake. I do believe this is enough confirmation now.Turtwig's A-B-Cs (talk | contribs) 23:36, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

I think what we’re all forgetting is that Janoby, and Futachimaru, both appeared in the concept art for the anime. I would say that is more than enough proof for those two. Chaobu however… well we’ll have to wait for that one, but it is still very likely to be real. EpicShadow 23:47, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

It's...already...been confirmed to be real Ataro 23:57, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Since they're confirmed beyond all doubts at this point, I'd say we go ahead and give them pages. Marlowe 00:15, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm saying we mainspace them now. They're confirmed. --SnorlaxMonster 08:33, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Taken from the official site itself. They're as real as real can be. Marlowe 11:39, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Trivia

Should be noted that Tsutarja is the first grass starter that is not in the first Pokémon in the regional Pokédex? Masatoshi: Gen. II>All. ^Discuss. 19:57, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Done. --EpicShadow 20:36, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Starters..

Hi (:. Weren't the Isshu startes a gift from the player's mum or something? I was almost totally sure.. I'd add it but I don't want to mess up with info that I don't know for sure.. Please answer :D. Thank you!YukitoOoO 05:00, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

The letter on the box is signed by Araragi. Werdnae (talk) 06:35, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

I see, cool. Thanks :D. YukitoOoO 06:48, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

On the origin (again)

The article states that "Tsutarja may be based on Oxybelis fulgidus, a slender snake with a pointed head that inhabits Central America and South America." It may be so, but in my opinion it more closely resembles an Asian snake Ahaetulla nasuta especially at the head. Both have same "sharp", pointed nose and the eyes are also quite similar, at least in my opinion. --Lorem of ipsums 16:05, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Possible Origin?

I was thinking that Tsutarja and its evolutionary line may be based off of the serpent from the Garden of Eden story. Seeing as God cursed the serpent to crawl on its belly and lose its legs, I figure that Tsutarja's progression throughout its evolution might reflect upon this. It's just an opinion, but I think it might be interesting to add. Omnis 21:39, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

It has a confirmed origin already..and I don't think that they would base it on that..Ataro 21:58, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Just because it has one confirmed origin doesn't mean that it has to ONLY be based on one. This actually seems like a plausible origin. - 050294 22:05, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Resemblance to this snake!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahaetulla_nasuta Look here at this long nosed whip snake. Doesn't Tsutarja's family have a similar head shape? Would this be worth mentioning in their origin sections? Be sure to look at all pictures of that snake in the section. Has a thin head and long skinny snout. --Brats817 04:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Protection

I know that the English names will be revealed today, but for how long will it be protected? ♢ DeadUniverse ^Hello! ♢ 16:50, 22 November 2010 (UTC)