Talk:Snivy (Pokémon)

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origin

Given that the "ja" means "snake" (acording to Pokebeach), I think it is safe to assume that Tsutaaja is based on a snake. Mind putting that in the page? --Deuxhero 00:54, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

The same post that told us these names on 2ch, said Tsutaaja is the くさへびポケモン (Grass Snake Pokémon). Tsuta (蔦) means ivy and Ja is another reading for hebi (蛇), which means snake.--KurowaSan 01:02, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

How many snakes do you know have feet? I doubt that is a correct translation. ^Maverick _Nate 01:34, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

The translation is pretty accurate, the source may be not. But the source has nailed the description of the protagonists, the region name, the fact that the other starters were a fire pig and a sea otter before the scans leaked... And I have seen freaky snakes with legs.. XD Mutations nonetheless. And that would be "Grass Snake" as in a snake of/from grass, not as in the real world species "Grass Snake".--KurowaSan 01:41, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

There actually is a type of snake with legs, albeit really small ones. It's native to Australia, if I remember right. I know they have one at the Cairns Zoo, anyway. Reign 02:13, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opheodrys_aestivus this doesn't have feet, but it looks like tsutaaja Kanjo 12:38, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxybelis_fulgidus I would sooner assume Tsutaaja is based off of a Vine Snake. In fact, I'd say it's fairly definite. Flint 20:50, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I think Origin should just mention grass snakes (green kind mostly) instead of getting very technical with species, seeing as there is far too many snakes that Tsutaaja may be based on. And maybe that early tidbit of a very few snakes having legs could also be mentioned. And is it just me, or does the collar it has kinda makes it resemble an unripened banana? Mudkipchan 21:07, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

It looks to me as though Tsutaaja may have been based off of a skink of sort, however skinks are closer related to lisards than snakes. I also think because this is a Pokémon that the collaring may have just as likely come from the fact that it is a grass type species. EpicShadow 9:12, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

bad grammar in the Origin section

Can we fix this?: "Tsutaaja may be based off a lizard or a snake. Its shared traits with boths make it similar to skinks." It should be "... with both makes it similar...". my dictionary and i are fairly sure "boths" isn't a word and the grammar in that sentence is atrocious anyway. --Lulu chan126 22:26, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

images

Uhh, I have the three guys images saved, to upload, if a mod can do that... [1][2][3] Megadog 05:12, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

As do I, but I Beilieve the Admin isn't allowing editing for those Images . . . not that any are even there. --Lordrogersmith6485 07:58, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I've seen them on Legendary Pokémon fan site. Not sure if it is okay to use them. Kev zo8 13:27, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

sprites too, along with zoroark's...[4] - unsigned comment from Megadog (talk • contribs)

height

the height and weight of it is 0.6 m and 8.1 kg - unsigned comment from Pokemonemerfan1954 (talk • contribs)

Got a source that isn't Serebii? —darklordtrom 10:57, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Filb.de, trom. Kev zo8 13:36, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Acceptable Speculation?

Is it alright to add in details that have been present for all of the Pokemon starters so far; such as EXP At Level 100, EXP Yield, and Gender Ratio? After four generations of Pokemon games having them identical, it's highly unlikely to be different this time. Plasma 11:36, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Passing off unsourced speculation as fact is bad. —darklordtrom 11:45, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

You say that, but the starters all have National Dex numbers (494, etc.). Where does that information come from? I know it's an educated guess, but at the moment it's still just a guess. The same goes for the types - do we know they're all pure types? ~ Serial Colour 13:46, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

We know at least one of their types. So we put that. TTEchidna 18:28, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Should we at least list their secondary types as Template:Type2 to indicate that we only know their primary types? -KinCryos 07:19, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Name romanization

Why are we romanizing the name as "Tsutaaja"? Manual of style/Romanization states that macrons should be used instead of doubling letters, unless the trademarked romanization begs to differ. And there is no trademarked romanization (I scoured the trademark database last night) - we don't even have official confirmation that these are the starters' names.

I mean, I personally don't like macrons, but shouldn't we romanize it as "Tsutāja," as per the MoS? 梅子 ^❀_✿ 17:45, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Most people would link to the redirect anyway... TTEchidna 17:57, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't we just call it Tsutaja? When Pocchama was first revealed it was just romanized as Pochama on this site. T a r o m o n 21:47, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

It's not going to stick this way anyway, I'd just leave it. Unless we rename the page Smugleaf. - MK (^t/_c) 03:22, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

No, we should use this name 'tsutaaja' till we don't gate its official English name..! -Amitrc7th

FYI, this site would prefer to use trademarked romaji if it's available. We never romanized ポッチャマ as Potchama or Pocchama because we were given both the official katakana and the official romaji (Pochama) on the same day. We should have official romaji soon, and I'm pretty sure that no official romaji has ever used a macron, so this whole issue should be a moot point soon. Drapion 06:59, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Height and Weight

Got this from Pokebeach:

Height: 0.6m (2ft)

Weight: 8.1kg (17.9Ibs) --Dialgafan1 00:02, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, you don't really have to look at pokebeach for that one. You can just look at the scans. XD

But yeah, those (in metric system) are accurate. And I don't really understand why haven't anyone added those. o_O They added the ability and species, but those are on the very same scan as height and weight. Also, the name origin is pretty much a given already. Can someone add all those, please?--KurowaSan 04:56, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

In the anime

Tsutarja, is a reptile-based Grass-type starter Pokémon. Since Ash Ketchum (Satoshi) has captured all the Grass-type starters and most of reptile-like Pokémons, it is highly possible that he will get this Pokémon somehow in Black and White saga (if he is going to appear in this anime saga). -Amitrc7th

That's speculation. Bulbapedia has rules against speculation, so it won't be added to the page until he catches it (if he does). By the way, please put new comments at the bottom of the page. Werdnae (talk) 08:47, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Please bring these conversation to the forums.--F orce F ire 10:24, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Sprite

Here's the sprite I uploaded onto Bulbagarden Archives from CoroCoro: Dialgafan1 18:44, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

File:SpriteTstuaaja.png

This needs to be moved.

To Tsutāja. You know, long a's and stuff. vik0z0z 19:45, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I believe that the reason the article is at Tsutaaja for the time being is that we want to avoid using extraneous characters whenever possible in page titles. For some reason, it puts a strain on the server. At least, that's what I recall us deciding awhile back... I could be wrong, though. Either way, the double "a" indicates the same sound without the special character. --P o L i 19:48, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Origin

Haven't you noted Tsutaaja's striking resemblance to this gecko? A reptile with a tail that looks like a leaf. It has rather huge eyes, too, just like Tsutaaja. - D-Wheel 21:34, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Eh it's a possibility, but since it's a "snake" Pokémon I doubt it...«ιɴsσмɴιαc» 07:35, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

But do we have any snakes that also have a leaf-like tail? Sure snakes with legs exist, but Tsutaaja does seem to have characteristics of both snakes and lizards. I don't think this debate will ever end... Mudkipchan 16:33, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Hey look, it's a Treecko. ~m190049^~talk 00:42, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

I really think this might be a glass snake. They're actually lizards, but they resemble snakes. The leafy tail must be just decoration. :P -- Professional Mole (Talk here) 14:04, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

We will know more about this Pokémon come the English-language release (or, if we're lucky, the Jp release). Until then we will go on the most vague sort of information we've got. —darklordtrom 06:46, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Physiology

"Tsutaaja is a Grass-type lizard-like Pokémon. " That should read "Tsutaaja is a Grass-type Snake Pokemon" or "snake-like Pokemon"

It's Japanese name and species name clearly define it as a snake, regardless of whether or not it has legs, officially, it is a snake. -Daisuke

Appearance wise, it's a lizard.--F orce F ire 04:16, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Not necesarilly. There are types of snakes with legs. If anyone has a list of animals at Cairns Zoo in Queensland, Australia, they have them there. Reign 08:05, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Name dispute

As stated here, http://www.pokabu.com/ and http://www.mijumaru.com/ are both correctly registered by TPCi, but there's no tsutaaja.com. There is a correctly registered http://www.tsutarja.com/ though. This is the closest we'll get right now to a trademarked name, and this romanization has been used on other sites before. Should this be changed?--immewnitythe mew 18:21, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Meh, I say keep it as it is, and create Tsutarja as a redirect. Cu bo ne King 18:25, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

How come? That was a fandone romanization, while this one's official.--immewnitythe mew 18:39, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Aren't all romanizations fandone at heart? Cu bo ne King 18:56, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

...no... It's called trademarked romaji.--immewnitythe mew 19:00, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Hm, it seems then that it is Tsutarja. TTEchidna 20:00, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

As well, Filb is calling the Pokémon Tsutāja. Is this just another romanization of the name? –Master Kenobi 05:52, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes. 梅子 ^❀_✿ 05:57, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

I still don't understand. It's written Tsutaaja, on the show they pronounce it Tsutaaja, there's no other way to read it than Tsutaaja...But they call its Tsutarja? There's a big difference. If it was Tsutarja, it would probably be ツタアルジャ, not　ツタアージャ. --Raktoner 19:45, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

No, that is not how it works. 梅子 ^❀_✿ 19:46, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

They did pronounce it as "tah-jah" on Pokemon Sunday though. If that means anything. ~m190049^~talk 23:49, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Five char limit in Pokemon, even if they changed the limit for JP games... it wouldn't be ツタアージャ (romanized as "Tsutaa'aja", I believe?), and "アー" can be romanized as an "ar" sometimes. Also... I'm pretty sure they also pronounced "Pocket Monsters" as "poketto monsutaa" on Pokesun (from what I can hear anyway, they talk too faaaaaast). So yeah. D: ▫▫ティナ^♫★ 00:03, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually there isn't a big difference between Tsutaaja and Tsutarja. It's called a non-rhotic r. You may have noticed that people from London or Boston tend to not pronounce the letter r when it's and the end of a word or before a consonant. Well, in Japanese the r sound can only ever come before a vowel, so when the letter r is at the end of a word or before a consonant they tend to approximate the sound with a long a, sometimes written aa. Take my name, Peter, for example. Someone from London or Boston would probably drop the r sound at the end, and likewise the Japanese approximate it as ピーター and pronounce it Piitaa. R's before consonants or at the ends of words are almost always approximated by a long a and not a ル. - unsigned comment from Drapion (talk • contribs)

Exactly, what Drapion said! I still pronounce it the same!--Pokélova! 07:51, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually, that's really interesting. And to think I put a rant about this on pokecharms the other day... But you're right. I just think it's a little on the odd side is all, I guess. --Raktoner 22:35, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Heh yeah the whole thing is sort of strange. Basically they're using an english-ish pronunciation and putting that into Japanese. Using ā for ar/er is common for this. Hamburger is ハンバーガー (hanbāgā), Earnest is アーネスト (ānesuto), Schumaker is シュメイカー (shumeikā), etc. - MK (^t/_c) 03:10, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Bird of Paradise Flower

I know that the new pokemon is based on a grass snake, but if you look at it's snout and it's tail, it reminds me of a Strelitzia a.k.a. the Bird of Paradise Flower. I know that this is a foolish question, but I suggest that you should put that in to what the new pokemon is based of in Origin? - User:Cynthia149 09:12, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I believe this got a "no" when you suggested it before... 梅子 ^❀_✿ 18:56, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I contacted that question to User:TTEchidna weeks ago, and he said that the origin will be changed when more info is unleashed. You have a look at the flower when the pod is closed, and then you will see the resembelence to this new Pokemon. - User:Cynthia149 20:46, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

If that's what he said, then that's what we're going by. We have not gotten any more information on the starters since then. 梅子 ^❀_✿ 19:51, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

When the information is unleashed? Is it going to turn into a werewolf? -Sketch 23:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Moves

According to a video, This pokemon either used Razor Leaf or Leaf Storm, I am not sure which...Chomi 09:22, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

It's Leaf Storm, to clarify. ▫▫ティナ^♫★ 14:38, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

But we don't know what level it learns it at, so there's not really anywhere we can put it in the article.--Pokélova! 15:03, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Physiology to be added by admins

I wrote up a physical description of Tsutarja for the Physiology section, since as of now it's pretty sparce. I know there's certain info that can't be added as of now, but I don't see why we can't have basic appearance descriptions. Besides, Pokabu has a much more extensive Physiology section. It's up for use if someone wants to add it.

"Tsutarja is a reptilian Grass-type Pokémon. Most of its body is green in coloration, while it has a cream-colored underside. A yellow stripe runs down the length of its back and tail, and it also has yellow markings around its large eyes. Yellow, curved structures protrude from its shoulders and bend backwards. These structures resemble leaves or small wings and give Tsutarja the appearance of wearing a collar. In spite of being snake-like in appearance, it has fully-developed limbs. Its slender arms are the same green color as the rest of its body and have three fingers, while its tiny feet match its underside in coloration and have no digits whatsoever. It has large, palmate leaf with three prongs on the end of its tail.

~Destruction on Wings~ 02:21, 25 June 2010 (UTC)Togeknight

First Evolution?

In the recent Black/White Anime series leak on Bulbanews, an image was released that includes what looks to be first evolutions for, at the very least, Tsutarja and Mijumaru. I think Pokabu's first evolution is there as well next to the new female character. Either way, is there any way to crop down those images and place them in the articles, or is this a case of "wait for clearer images?" --Phantomjunkie 17:27, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

that thing looks nothing like pokabu...even more so than the whole remoraid octillery thing (Ataro 17:30, 1 July 2010 (UTC))

This is both a case of clearer images. Anything like that would be speculation. It may look the same, but may not be related. We'd need further confirmation. ^Maverick _Nate 17:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Tsutarja's evolution's name is Kenayake (ケナャーケ) Vkickass 21:05, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Even the biggest scans I can find of them are too small for them to be sharpened and still be readable, but the katakana would be ケナヤーケ, not ケナャーケ, which is Kenayaake, but if it follows Tsutarja, it's probably gonna be Kenayarke. --Goldenpelt 23:38, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it says Tsutakake (ツタケーク), but even if that what it says, we have absolutely no idea if that's the final name for it. (I say this because, on the character sheet in question, Tsutarja is called "Ivy" and Mijumaru is called something like "Rakkomaru." Uhh...?) 梅子 ^❀_✿ 00:04, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

I suggest we leave the matter alone until something official pops up. The character sheet's names are small, and up to interpretation. And even if we manage to find which translation is correct, the name could change at any time. And to that point, the design itself could change since it appeared on beta artwork.--Element03 00:56, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but this was beta artwork for the animé, not the games. I'm sure the finalized versions of the Pokémon were set long before that beta artwork was released.--Phantom junkie 01:19, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Smugleaf

Since we mentioned the "so i herd u liek mudkipz" internet meme in the trivia section on Mudkip's page, should we mention the "Smugleaf" internet meme in the trivia page for this article? - Gold Dialga

Because "so i herd u like mudkipz" was added to Mudkips trivia it would make sens to put it in there. But do the admins realy want information on something as unofficial as memes? I think it would be best to wait for a response from a member of the Bulbagarden staff. EpicShadow 2:36, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

How far has this new meme spread? "so i herd u liek mudkipz" was a well established meme by the time we added it. Does this even come close? --AndyPKMN 19:47, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

I beleve it was created by a youtuber calld IAMTHEOBNXIOUSDOUCHE. It has three vidios making it a small series, all three vidios currantly have together have 8188 veiws. The first vidio was posted two months ago. The only article I've seen about it anywher els (there may be more outside of this) is KOTAKU who apparently claimed it as there own creation. In short it is not very well known but it is growing.EpicShadow 3:21, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

It's spread to a forum populated almost entirely by Sonic fans, and the users of that forum will probably be referring to it as Smugleaf until the English name is revealed. I think that's pretty far for a Pokémon-related internet meme. - Gold Dialga

If thats true would it be right to say that the meme had earnd it the nickname Smugleaf, because that may be a piece of trivia to mention in the future. (assuming that the official name does not actualy become Smugleaf wich it most likely will not) EpicShadow 3:59, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Basically, most people know Tsutarja as Smugleaf. Its far easier to say/type, and has become widespread. It started literally the first day the starters were announced. _Blake ^Talk·Edits 23:15, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

But that still makes it a fan-made nickname, should we mention it in the trivia section or leave it alone?EpicShadow 7:52, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

I say we mention it in trivia - Gold Dialga

So hey, who remembers the fan nicknames that were given to the fourth-gen starters before their English names were revealed?

...Yeah, that's right, neither do I. And four years from now, I'll bet no one will remember "Smugleaf" either. So, I say not notable. 梅子 ^❀_✿ 02:43, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/smugleaf --S^hi_ny ^No_ct^ow_l 02:56, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Maybe we should wait until this nickname becomes a little more widespread. The point at which it would be considered widespread enough to add to the page could be decided by the Bulbapedia staff. Steph 03:06, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

The nickname isn't the real dispute its the meme based on a youtube vidio that we thougt should be put in. EpicShadow 10:11, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Can we please just drop it until, as Steph says, things are handled a bit better in the sense we wait? ^ht 14 03:13, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

About its National number

Yes. We know. Victini is #000 in the Isshu dex. This means nothing right now about its National number. Think of it this way: they put Victini at #000 so that you'd not know right off the bat getting it how many other Pokémon there are to find, especially given that it's gonna be an early event, like Manaphy. If you got Mew just after you got your starter in RBY, you'd know there's 151 Pokémon in Kanto. Same with Celebi in GSC, Deoxys in RSE, and so on. This is a failsafe to make Pokémon feel less like "let's see how many they added" and more like "oh, there's so many of these things, I wonder what they all are...". Sure, futile anyway, given that we'll likely have access to the games and have figured out everything by the day after it comes out... but still. An admirable solution to that huge-empty-Pokédex problem we've had since Gen I.

Tsutarja, until further notice, is staying at #494. We cannot assume anything different than it directly following Arceus, just as Chikorita followed Mew, Treecko followed Celebi, and Turtwig followed Deoxys. TTEchidna 00:55, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

I completely agree.--Pokélova! 01:07, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Poor Origin Species Choice

The Origin Section on Tsutarja's page lables it as "Opheodrys aestivus, more commonly known as the rough green snake or green grass snake". I honsetly STRONGLY disagree with this noition. Other than the somewhat-similar color scheme, there's not TOO much in common- the face is WAY too different. I think that Tsutarja is MUCH more likely based on a somewhat-popular species known as the Vine Snake. The Vine Snake is a snake species found all throughout the Americas. Specifically notice the very similar pointed nose, that the Rough Green Snake notably lacks. Also note the similar nostril and the very sharp line that passes straight through it's eye. ...Thoughts? ~m190049^~talk 04:25, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

I think you may be right.--Pokélova! 04:29, 6 August 2010 (UTC)