User talk:Pumpkinking0192/Archive 4

Pumpkinking0192's Talk page archives

Archive 1
May 2012‑Aug 2013

Archive 2
Sept 2013‑Nov 2013

Archive 3
Dec 2013‑Feb 2014

Archive 4
Mar 2014‑Aug 2016

Archive 5
Sept 2016‑Jan 2017

Archive 6
Feb 2017‑Aug 2017

Please leave your message by creating a new section below. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 05:57, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Small group

Pumpkinking, early Normal-type Pokémon like Patrat and Bunnelby is too small of a group to note right so I hidden a piece of trivia on each of the Pokémon pages anyway. --Cinday123 (Talk) 04:38, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Japanese seiyū

Hello, I've noticed that you've changed the term "seiyū" to "voice actor" on Becky's page twice. I won't undo your revision because we really shouldn't get into an edit war, but I have to remind you that the term "seiyū" is used when referring to Japanese voice actors in order to distinguish them from English voice actors. It's also a rule Kenji-girl established on the Project VA page.

Also, you suggested that the "List of Japanese voice actors" page use the term "seiyū" but then it'd be inconsistent with Becky's page...either we'd have to change both uses of "seiyū" to "voice actor" for both Becky's and the list's pages, or else we'd have to do the opposite for all other VA articles. ☆Gamer Geek ☆ 22:15, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

I didn't change it twice. After my first edit, I saw your edit summary pointing out Project VA's guideline, and as you can see, my second edit was merely to add a Wikipedia link. I don't see how using one or the other ("seiyu" or "voice actor") on all pages is inconsistent; if anything, the way we have it now is inconsistent, as we use two different terms on different parts of the wiki. We should pick one and be consistent with it across all pages. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 02:45, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Evolution

Evolution and its derivatives are always capitalized according to the Pokémon Syntax, what's wrong with it? --Cinday123 (Talk) 00:49, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

It'd be nice if you had cited that source in the first place. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 00:50, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

And please check the Pokémon Syntax if you noticed. --Cinday123 (Talk) 00:53, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Don't patronize me. I already acknowledged that I saw your source. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 00:55, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Aqua Ribbon/Wallace Cup

(link) It does, but I was going for with a Ctrl+F'ble solution here. And perhaps speaking just for myself, but I initially didn't even know the winner gets an Aqua Ribbon, so I wouldn't even know where to look.

Would you agree with simply moving it to the end, meaning while not getting in the way, we'd still have it easily noticeable? (edit link):

Floaroma Ribbon (Settling a Not-So-Old Score!)
Aqua Ribbon (Strategy with a Smile!) (winner of the Wallace Cup)
Celestic Ribbon (Battling The Generation Gap!)
Chocovine Ribbon (Another One Gabites the Dust!)
Daybreak Ribbon (Playing the Performance Encore!)

--Det ^talk 16:19, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

The Aqua Ribbon is not the winner of the Wallace Cup, though, so that's not grammatically accurate. Would either "Aqua Ribbon for winning the Wallace Cup (Strategy with a Smile!)" or "Aqua Ribbon (Strategy with a Smile!) (for winning the Wallace Cup)" be sufficient? Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 17:18, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Well, I've learnt not fight you people too much over what I think is right, so as long as it mentions that "Wallace Cup", I'm happy with what you think is best.

But to me the first suggestion seems a little "clumsy", though, as it deviates a bit too much from the rest and as a sentence might make you think 'well, why not name all the other Cups too?' (which I don't think even have names).

I'd personally go with either of these (the first one is yours):

Aqua Ribbon (Strategy with a Smile!) (for winning the Wallace Cup)
Aqua Ribbon (for winning the Wallace Cup in Strategy with a Smile!)

--Det ^talk 19:55, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Logical quotes

Should we just leave it the way it was when added, first come/first serve? Pikachu Bros. (talk) 15:18, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't normally believe in compromising on ideological grounds, but in this case it's in my favor, so I suppose so. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 15:26, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Scientific Trivia

Sorry to bother you, but could you help me understand a little better why you thought the piece of trivia on Steelix's page shouldn't have been there? I know it's no big deal, but pointing out something that is scientifically incorrect seems like a valid thing to put in a trivia section to me. AGGRON989 00:54, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

For the same reason that trivia about Wailord being less dense than air has been repeatedly removed from its page — it has to make assumptions about the Pokemon world working the same way as ours, when it clearly doesn't. Aside from the existence of Pokemon themselves, there are tons and tons of other completely ridiculous things in the Pokedex — Alakazam having an IQ of 5000, Ponyta's hooves being harder than diamonds, etc. Simply put, the Pokedex is just not a place for any kind of scientific data that makes sense in our world. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 03:12, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

I hope you'll pardon the intrusion, but I'd also note that Steelix's entries only say its composition is diamondlike, not that it is necessarily made of diamonds. (Others even say it is harder than diamonds, which should imply that it cannot be made of them.) So the trivia point was off the mark in the first place. Tiddlywinks (talk) 03:29, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Shuckle trivia

Couldn't Shuckle potentially get Ice Ball through Mimic?--Cold (talk) 20:47, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

True. That wasn't listed in any of the original discussion about the trivium, though, so I hope it's understandable that I overlooked it, especially since Shuckle can't even get Mimic unless it's migrated forward all the way from FRLG or XD. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 21:52, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Mega stat trivia

Just so you know, Dennou made it pretty clear that that was just an opinion and is by no means binding. Now, I've seen SnorlaxMonster remove such trivia as well, so it's basically a de facto rule. I only decided to add the exclusion rather than remove the whole trivia because there has been no official rule. In my opinion, Mega Evolutions are not like pseudo-legendaries for several reasons: they are alternate forms, not just unusually strong Pokémon; they are not just a fan designation based on stats; and they are temporary, in-battle-only changes, which basically makes them no different than a stat-boosting move. As you can see from our edits, someone thought it notable that Archeops had the highest BST of all Fossil Pokémon, a group with only 11 members. I'd say that small groups like Fossils or Babies or starters should only note the highest BST, while larger groups like types and legendaries should note each highest stat as well. (Sorry for the essay, lol). --TheVeryBest 05:21, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

And in my opinion, any opinion by a staff member, even if explicitly non-binding, is better than having no policy at all, and is thus good enough to apply until another staff member disagrees. But I see your point, and agree that small groups shouldn't note such things. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 05:58, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Pokédex trivia

Nice work on dealing with removing all the trivia from those Pokédex trivia pages. Just so you are aware the only reason I added that trivia piece for the Kanto Pokédex regarding Magnemite and Magneton was that my attempt to alter the template itself regarding that information itself failed when I previewed it, so I decided to add that trivia piece instead. -Tyler53841 (talk) 22:48, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, it makes more sense for it to be a trivia point than to try to jury-rig the templates in a way that probably wouldn't even end up being very clear to the average reader. :) Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 23:04, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Plus unlike Johto, it did not require the creation of another Pokédex page, anyway thanks for the update on the trivia, as long as it serves its original purpose I don't mind if the wording is changed. -Tyler53841 (talk) 23:12, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Also one other thing to point out is let's wait until more concrete details regarding the Pokédex for the Ruby and Sapphire remakes is confirmed to affect what decision will be made regarding the Pokédex listings for Hoenn, especially since many of the Pokémon listed in it now have the Fairy-type attached to them which would only end with either a new page or a need for a new trivia piece. -Tyler53841 (talk) 23:26, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Roxie

I know where you're coming from, but for me, it doesn't matter whether the bass is left or right hand oriented. One can see that for themselves without the article having to tel them that.--Force Fire 03:00, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

And that's a much better (and more communicative) reason than "other people have removed it." Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 05:15, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Bestow

I am quite surprised this happened! What I did on Bestow's page was remove 'In other generations' section, for the reason that it is still the image from Generation V which goes in the main infobox and it is hence pointless to create a separate section for the same image. As you might check with moves like Snarl, and Simple Beam, and Entrainment, no 'In other generations' has been mentioned on their pages as well due to the same reason. So I would like to ask what prompted you to revert my edits (and call me a vandal on the top of that; it really hurt me!) when a similar pattern is followed for other Generation V moves. Harryghost (talk) 11:47, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

My bad. Somehow I managed to think the infobox image was from Gen VI — although now I can't comprehend why I would think that, as it's clearly pixelated rather than a 3D model. Vandalism was the only reason that occurred to me for why someone would remove what I thought was not a redundant image. I humbly apologize. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 04:33, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

That J episode

https://youtu.be/v1xysHR0jsM?t=983

The only reason they didn't die was that they were lucky enough for Gardevoir to Teleport them. Unowninator (talk) 06:01, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Zapdos edit

Thanks for the edit you recently made to Zapdos's page.Ratchet and Clank 1995 (talk) 18:45, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Nature Power revert

How is that self evident? The point of the articles is to educate the reader on the intricacies of the moves, and it can't do that if information is left up in the air. in your rationel, it should be evident that Hidden Power is affected by the abilities, however that is not the case. Hidden Power is a normal type move, but it is not treated as one by the ability.

Moves behave in all kinds of unpredictable ways, like how Curse places a curse on the user if they have protean.

For all the reader knows, if a Pokemon has acquired Refrigerate and then uses Nature Power while Electric Terrain is on the field, the move would be a Ice-type thunderbolt just like how Normalize makes Thunderwave a normal-type move that can bypass ground's immunity. The problem is, it won't, so if you try to use Nature Power against a ground type in this scenario, all you're going to do is throw away a move because it'll still be immune. Yamitora1 (talk) 21:51, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

It's self-evident because Nature Power is merely "calling" the other move in the same way Metronome does. Since "called moves act the same as they do if they're used normally" is a general rule, it's only exceptions to that rule that need to be noted, since a reader can always easily navigate to the called move's page to read about it. If we wrote about every called move's interactions with everything else in the game (especially, god forbid, on a page like Metronome) it would balloon out of control. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 04:15, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Zygarde

Bringing this up here before I do any further edits. The Zygarde section seems to put a lot of emphasis on trying to justify the Loki's children theory, and Norse mythology in general. Leaving little room for other interpretations. If you want to trim down the section I suggest removing a lot of the justification for these theories too. Like how are long lines fine like this one: Zygarde Complete Forme may be based on Hel, the ruler of Helheim, the realm of the dead in Nordic myth. She is often depicted as a half alive and half dead being, which may have inspired Zygarde's theme of balance between life and death. But a short note that Complete may be based on a combined Mecha not? Complete has a very strong physical appearance and generally looks inorganic, this in contrast to Hel who is frail. The Mecha note can help give insight into that.

Flatworms being able to form into bigger multi-cellular creatures is incorrect, they can just split into several individuals if cut in two, but not actually merge. Flatworms should either be left out of that sentence completely or get their own specifying that case. I support the first. Also I think Euglena is worth mentioning because they are the creatures that visually look the most like Zygarde Core, on top of the photosynthesis link. Petrichor (talk) 05:38, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

I'm just trying to avoid excessive detail. Which interpretations get focus and which don't are something that I have no particular stance on. The Norse mythology thing has been heavily pushed by other users, though, so I've been hesitant to trim it because people tend to throw a fit when it's trimmed. But you're more than welcome to try to do so yourself if you want. As for flatworms, sorry about that. I'll adjust that clause. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 06:13, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Ar-KAY-Us

Why did you undo my edit? I've seen the promotional trailer, it clearly says "Ar-KAY-us". CrashBash (talk) 13:43, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Apologies. That trivium had stood like that for a very long time without anyone objecting, you left no edit summary to explain, and we often have vandals who change minor things for apparently no reason but enjoyment of seeing subtle wrongness go unnoticed, so I assumed you were one of those vandals. It seems you were perhaps instead just correcting something one of those vandals had slipped in long ago. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 14:54, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

OK, it's cool. Thing is, I've seen lots of videos discussing the various pronunciations of Arceus' name, and whilst I have found one for Ar-KAY-us, I have never found one for Ar-SAY-us other than a passing comment. CrashBash (talk) 15:46, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Legendary Pokémon anime vs games

You've been a small part of the recent back and forth on Legendary Pokémon, so I just want to make sure you know, it's been edited back and forth quite enough. If you happen to still have an opinion about it, let's move the issue to a talk page.

Please. Thank you. Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:58, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

GenII+ Base Stats for Kanto Pokemon

Can you find me a sortable list of GenII base stats for only the 151 Kanto Pokemon? I need it to be Kanto Pokemon only, I can't have all the others crowding the list, because they're not in Pokemon GO yet. Right now I'm using the Bulbapedia:Sandbox, but I don't want to use the sandbox every time to view it. Damian001 (talk) 18:05, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

The only lists I know of are the List of Pokémon by base stats page and the related pages linked at the top of it. Sorry I can't help you any more than that. If you don't want to use the sandbox, you can make enough productive edits elsewhere on the wiki to become autoconfirmed, then use a user subpage. I know this probably isn't the answer you want to hear, but it's the only one I know. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 18:10, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Reggie

Hi there! Would you please explain why you removed Reggie from the "Other participants" section in the article for the Lily of the Valley Conference? The reason you gave in the edit summary is really not good enough.

As you must know, our articles can be incomplete. It's not because Reggie's participation in the League isn't mentioned on his article that you should go and remove it from other pages. Your edit created an inconsistency because Reggie is still listed as a participant in the pages for the Indigo, Silver, and Ever Grande Conferences.

As a rule of thumb, you should always look for a source or watch the episodes yourself instead of guessing. And if I had to guess, I'd say the chances of him having participated in these League tournaments are high considering he got eight Badges from Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, and Sinnoh. --Mi ku ri 00:20, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

True, our articles can be incomplete. But the same user who added it had just had other contributions to the same article reverted, so I thought the odds were more likely that it was another bad contribution than that several of our pages were wrong. We can't simply rely on "the chances" of him having participated based on the number of his Badges; someone must cite the episode in which it's explicitly stated that he had participated in the past. The onus of proof is on the side trying to change the status quo, and the status quo for years has been that he hasn't been listed as a prior participant. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 00:27, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Nowhere did I say we should assume things and rely on the chances of something being correct. On the contrary, I suggested you to look for a source and, failing that, to watch the episode and see it for yourself. If I *had* to guess, I would say Reggie did compete in these League tournaments, but I don't have to. I was simply telling you to check your facts before creating inconsistencies. In the future, don't assume. Thank you. --Mi ku ri 02:31, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

What happened to my edit?

I noticed that you recently got rid of my Beedrill edit. I read your user page, so I don't know why you would delete my edit completely. I was hoping you could elaborate?Grass4Lyfe (talk) 15:38, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

As my edit summary said, things like that don't belong on Pokémon species pages. You should put it on List of references to Pokémon in popular culture instead, although I didn't put it there myself because I'm not familiar with how to upload an associated screencap to the Archives so it can be used on that page. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 16:13, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Oh, thanks for clearing it up!Grass4Lyfe (talk) 16:24, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Eggs in Pokemon GO

You asked me to put sources there, but I wasn't sure if you wanted them on the page or just wanted to see them, so I'm showing them to you first. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-08-08-pokemon-go-eggs-chart-hatching-2km-5km-10km-eggs http://www.serebii.net/pokemongo/eggs.shtml (doesn't mention anything about it being possible) https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/4w9d00/have_you_hatched_eggs_great_i_want_you_to_tell_me/ (about region exclusives) https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/4wmkdt/ign_is_claiming_higher_km_eggs_have_the_potential/ (throwing this one up too)

Let me explain. Basically, you don't get an a bulletproof source, since Niantic haven't said anything themselves. But all evidence points towards what I edited into the two pages. The last reddit dicussion I posted clears the misunderstanding. IGN was incorrect about it in their initial article because they based it on surveys. Players might have claimed to have seen the same species hatch in Eggs with different hatching distances in those surveys, but today, more than a month after release, it has yet to be proved that they can and most sites and players have caught up on that now so I thought it was time for Bulbapedia to do the same thing. They also incorrectly put Mr. Mime down as a Pokemon that can hatch from 5km Eggs. This was likely because the other three region exlcusives comes from 5km Eggs and thus it was a good assumption, but nevertheless it's not true, which you'll once again learn by looking more into it.

In short, what I edited can't be proved 100%, but neither could what I edited out and now that all evidence points towards what I edited in to be correct, I fully believe that's what the articles should go by. I hope this is enough to convince you. Ctesjbuvf (talk) 16:25, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Well, that's about as bulletproof as we can expect, considering Niantic's hush-hush nature. I definitely trust TheSilphRoad more than the general PokemonGo subreddit, the latter of which is where I've seen most of the "general knowledge" I had thought was true. Thanks for rounding up these sources! Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 16:34, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

You're welcome! Thank you for discussing this open-minded :-) Ctesjbuvf (talk) 16:48, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Do not steal from any of the above sources. Only official word from Niantic counts. And none of the above are reliable. It doesn't matter if Niantic is "hush-hush", you wait for them to say something or don't steal/speculate, even if you did the above research you cite. Reliable, official, accountable and permissible/permission-giving sources>anything else. --BlisseyandtheAquaJets (talk) 03:23, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

...? This is clearly not "stealing". These sources are publicly crowdsourcing publicly available game data, the same way Bulbapedia gets data for all Pokemon games that we can't directly mine out of the game cartridge. Please don't butt into discussions that you don't understand and weren't involved in. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 03:33, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

There's multiple DMCA-style laws and Bulbapedia policy and/or precedent to consider. Reddit isn't reliable and TheSilphRoad themselves haven't given permission to US for use of their materials. Serebii is unreliable, does not condone stealing and is anon-permissible source. Eurogamer's material is copyrighted under EU law. Check official Bulbapedia source policies before saying I don't understand. This user is trying to get away with copyright infringement and plagiarism, which are forbidden. It doesn't matter where he got them. W/O explicit permission from said content owners, Bulbapedia does NOT take nor source fan material, unlike Wikia and WIkipedia(which aren't reliable sources either). Since anyone can edit Reddit, it isn't reliable, and Eurogamer is a magazine, so its material is protected under EU copyright law. Also, its forums are fan-edited, so, according to OFFICAL Bulbapedia policies and precedents, if anyone can edit it, it's not reliable. And anyone can enter and exit a discussion if they have something to add. Unless you can quote written(non- single-usertalk page)policy that explicitly states otherwise(and is on Bulbapedia ONLY(Namely, that isn't a Wikipedia policy on its way to being purged according to a long-delayed staff initiative in favor of a Bulbapedia-centric system)), I'll move on according to(and will follow)policy and go talk to a staff member about this. And don't be dismissive and snide when someone has something to add to a discussion that contrasts with you personal views and/or possible misconceptions. Try to stay "open-minded" like the above user thought you were being, and remember:A talk page isn't meant to be an echo chamber. --BlisseyandtheAquaJets (talk) 05:15, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

If you want to take it to a staff member, be my guest. I'm not interested in trying to show you why you're wrong. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 05:19, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

"We don't note final appearances to my knowledge" I think they do.

I remember seeing that a few times, but the only example I remember is "last episode with James's Mime Jr." Just wanted to get that out there. Unowninator (talk) 04:57, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

XY132 needs editing

The episode aired yesterday but I cannot edit it to add info to plot or fix the release date.

Can you edit this to fix date and stuff, the page is unlock for unknown reason? User:Orange Mo (talk) 18:29, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

PumpkinKing isn't a moderator; there's nothing he can do. (And I'm not one either). This may help you find one. Unowninator (talk) 02:00, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Mini-Noses

Hi! I realise that you removed the Mini-Noses origin theory, and I wanted to discuss about it with you. The Tangata Manu was a competition on Easter Island, and it's unknown if Tangata Manu had co-existed with Moai heads and the rock art resembles the Mini-Noses. In the other hand, Make-Make resembles more the design and it is other deity on the Rapa Nui mithology.

Exists another possibility, but it's more unknown: The Navel of the World, a lithic site near Ahu Te Pito Kura. I don't find any article about this on Wikipedia, but it's a magnetic rock that makes losing control the compasses like Probopass in the anime, and has with four identical stones around the rock which represent the four sides of the compass.

Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I'm sure the Mini-noses are designed with some basis. What's your opinion? --Berjim (talk) 22:02, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

I don't really see a resemblance in the rock art. The Navel of the World makes sense conceptually. In terms of literal appearance itself, they look enough like a stylized small Nosepass/Probopass that I'm content to leave it at that, but we could certainly incorporate something like the Navel of the World as a possible design motivation behind the decision to have Mini-Noses at all, if that makes sense. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 04:19, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Why did you delete Poke'mon that can't learn Power Gem

I get that you said "it's not our place to judge who should learn what moves" but it didn't say they should know Power Gem, just that they couldn't despite the first impressions one might have based on appearance. Also handy as a quick list for someone wondering why their Poke isn't learning it even if it has more jewels on it than Rebecca Sugar. I should also point out in this same vein of logic you may want to then edit the Trivia section of the Tail Glow page that says Manaphy can learn Tail Glow despite not having a tail and in Ice Punch where it say Wooper can learn this move despite not having hands. Akarroa (talk) 03:32, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

There's a difference between those trivia and the trivia that was removed. Just because a Pokémon has a feature, doesn't mean it should learn a move associated with that feature. Just because a Pokémon has wings, doesn't mean it should learn Fly. The trivia the you've presented are the opposite, i.e., Pokémon knowing a move that they shouldn't be able to learn (due to not having the proper appendages).--Force Fire 04:30, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

(Edit conflict, but I'm tired so I'm just copy-pasting below what I was going to say, instead of removing the bits that are basically the same as what Force Fire just said.)

I think "can learn a move despite logical inconsistencies in performing it" is a slightly different nuance than "can't learn a move even though it makes biological sense for it to use it", and while I'd be fine removing both, the staff are more pro-trivia in general than I am, and I'm not enthusiastic to fight that battle to get rid of the "can-but-shouldn't" trivia.

In any case, "can-but-shouldn't" is an assumption, true, but it's a pretty clear-cut logistical one... meanwhile, "can't-but-should" fails to acknowledge that biology is not the sole reason that the developers allow certain Pokemon to learn certain moves (game balance is another). Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 04:37, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

While I can understand your point, my argument was that it was not to say "hey they should be able to learn this" but rather "while, as a new trainer, you would assume they could, here's a bit of info" and that it was merely stating fact and not implying fault with the game or design anything of the like. I also feel it is quite similar to trivia of what they can learn as both make assumptions of their capabilities based on what our perceptions of their physiology would be like based on what we know from our world that are then thrown out due to the way their world works. It's like the "Wailord is denser than air" trivia in that way, I think. I really wish I could move this discussion to forums somehow. Akarroa (talk) 04:59, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

"They should learn this" and "Might look like it should, but it doesn't" basically boils down to the same thing - assuming a Pokemon has to learn the move due to have the proper appendages. "Can but can't" isn't as assumptive as (X) "Punch" requires a fist and "Tail" (X) requires a tail. Also, there is no Wailord density trivia on its page, there's a message saying not to put it there.--Force Fire 04:11, 30 August 2016 (UTC)