Talk:Johto League

Generation I/III

Should we put that in those Gens, the Johto League's Elite Four consisted of Lorelei, Bruno, Agatha, Lance, and Blue? Or is that technically speculation?--MisterE13 15:09, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Speculation. Johto was never shown in either Gen I or Gen III, so it's not known if Johto & Kanto shared the Indigo Plateau during that time, or if it was a change made after Red's adventure and before Ethan & Lyra's adventure. - Kogoro - Talk to me - 15:26, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

"Johto might have had a unique Elite Four before it was changed to being the same as Kanto's" sound much more like baseless speculation to me, considering that there's nothing in the games implying this. - Ericss 10:44, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

We can't assume either, so we shouldn't say either way. However, the fact that even in FRLG, there was no path from Johto to the Indigo Plateau seems to indicate that the Indigo Plateau was not used as the location for Johto's Pokémon League (whether they had a separate one or none at all is unknown). --SnorlaxMonster 11:24, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Merge?

I think this should be merged with the Indigo League, seeing how they're the same thing. Other than in the anime, Johto doesn't have its own league; the Indigo League is shared by Kanto and Johto.--Golden Trainer (talk) 22:12, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

The Johto and Indigo league are different things. The Johto region has their own set of Gym Leaders, while Kanto has theirs. Yes, they share the same Elite Four and Champion, but that's not what this article is about.--ForceFire 02:59, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

No, I'm pretty sure both sets of Gyms are part of the same League. It's just that you only need 8 badges from either region to participate, rather than all 16 badges. You're looking at it from the modern context, in which each major region has its own exclusive League. This isn't the case with the first two generations. Back then, there wasn't the Kanto League and the Johto League; there was just the Pokémon League, which covered both explorable regions. This is why both regions have the same Elite Four, and why in GSC you don't participate in the Indigo League after collecting all Kanto badges -- you already participated in it. --Golden Trainer (talk) 18:29, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

The "league" includes that regions Gym Leaders. The Indigo league does not include the Johto Gym Leaders, just as the Johto league does not include Kanto Gym Leaders. They are different things, with different sets of gym leaders and from two different regions.--ForceFire 05:07, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Where are we getting this thing about the League including the Gym Leaders from? Because I don't recall it ever being stated in the games. As far as I'm aware, the games have refer to the Pokémon League as either the combination of the Elite Four and the Champion, or the building (the Pokémon League HQ) they reside in. Here are some quotes from Gen I and II that show what I'm talking about:

"I'm going to the POKEMON LEAGUE to boot out the ELITE FOUR! I'll become the world's most powerful trainer!" - Blue

"You can go onto POKEMON LEAGUE only by defeating our GYM LEADER!" - A trainer in the Viridian Gym

"The EARTHBADGE makes POKEMON of any level obey! It is evidence of your mastery as a POKEMON trainer! With it, you can enter the POKEMON LEAGUE! It is my gift for your POKEMON LEAGUE challenge!" - Giovanni

"I'll whip you RED as a warm up for POKEMON LEAGUE! Come on! (...) That loosened me up! I'm ready for POKEMON LEAGUE! RED, you need more practice! But hey, you know that! I'm out of here. Smell ya!" - Blue

"Welcome to POKEMON LEAGUE! I am LORELEI of the ELITE FOUR! (...) You're better than I thought! Go on ahead! You only got a taste of POKEMON LEAGUE power!" - Lorelei

"Deep inside far-off INDIGO PLATEAU is the POKEMON LEAGUE" - Some unnamed GSC NPC

"I may have lost, but you're still not ready for the POKEMON LEAGUE." - Clair

"Don't you dare lose at the POKEMON LEAGUE! If you do, I'll feel even worse about having lost to you!" - Clair

And there are more examples, but it would be pointless to go on. The point is, I just went through the game script, searching for every single mention of the term "POKEMON LEAGUE", and not a single line stated that the Gym Leaders make up the League. It seems to me that as far as the games are concerned, Gym Leaders are affiliated with the League, but aren't part of it themselves. --Golden Trainer (talk) 19:24, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

"League" in this article's case refers to the competition, i.e. trainers from a certain region need to battle a set Gym Leader, Elite Four, and Champion before being crowned the Champion. The League you're referring to is the location.--ForceFire 05:16, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

My point was that I went through every mention of the term in the game scripts and couldn't find any instance of it being used in the context of "A regional competition that encompasses the region's Gym Leaders". So where are we getting that from? --Golden Trainer (talk) 00:46, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Like I said, the quotes are referring to the location, not the competition. This article is not about the location.--ForceFire 06:13, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply. Anyway, yes, and like I responded, I couldn't find any instance of the term being used in the context of the competition in the games. So I ask again: Where did we get the definition of "Pokémon League" as "a region-specific competition that encompasses said region's Gym Leaders" from? Is it official or fan-made? --Golden Trainer (talk) 23:10, 15 August 2018 (UTC)