Talk:Ice (type)

Hail

Shouldnt hail be under damage-dealing moves, since technically it does damage every turn?Jaller95 14:03, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

no because hail does not damage direct, what damage is the weather --Hanmac 14:08, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Offensive Position

I think that Ice is on par with Rock offensively. Proof: More Pokémon are quad weak to to Ice than any other type. There are some Pokémon who quad resist Ice, nearly all who are also part-Ice. There are only two Pokémon who quad resist Ice and aren't Ice-types themselves: Empoleon and Heatran, who are part- Steel-type, the best type defensively in the game (Resists 11 types, and immune to one other). In comparison, Rock is quad resisted by only four Pokémon, and Ice is quad resisted by numerous other Pokémon, but only two aren't Ice-types themselves. So, Ice is pretty much one of the best types offensively, to me. KirbyRider 23:46, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

So... you're just saying Ice is the best type? Frozen Fennec 23:57, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm saying it's one of the best types, and is arguably comparable to Rock. Go read its offensive-wise info. --KirbyRider 20:59, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

"There are more Pokémon with double weaknesses to Ice than any other type."

Err... if I counted properly... It gave me 17 double weakness to Ice and FRIGGIN 27 to Grass, and Grass had more since Gen I (1/5/10/16/17 for Ice and 10/15/20/23/27 for Grass). If I am wrong then... derp. Marked +-+-+ 20:54, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Frost Rotom

Frost Rotom is mentioned as not having more weaknesses than resistances and immunities, but it does. The Electric type cancels out the Steel weakness and adds resistance to Flying and Electric, but also adds a weakness to Ground, making the totals 3 resistances and 4 weaknesses. So Froslass is the only Ice Pokémon that breaks even. AsbestosBill 18:22, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

It's counting Levitate, making the Ground weakness an immunity. - Blazios _talk 18:48, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Oh. Of course. My bad. AsbestosBill 17:50, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Bug type?

Okay why is it that in the Ice-type section there's a mention of bug types? And I'm not talking about the compare attack stats and what not. In the little triva section it says, and I qoute "Generation I introduced the most Ice-type moves of any Generation, with six and Generation II introduced the least Bug-type moves, with two." That should be Ice-type moves right? I don't want to argue with people who obviously know a whole lot more about Pokemon than me, but I'm pretty sure that's wrong. And this is how you sign right? CharizardX9 16:34, 9 June 2012 (UTC)CharizardX9

Looks like a copypaste error to me. G50 fixed it shortly after you left your comment. Werdnae (talk) 20:34, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Generation with the least number of ice types introduced

The trivia section states: "Generation V introduced the most Ice-type Pokémon of any generation, with eight, and Generation II introduced the least Ice-type Pokémon, with five."

The five introduced in Generation II were as follows: Sneasel, Swinub, Piloswine, Delibird, and Smoochum.

I feel the trivia should state that both generation I & II introduced five pokemon,and are therefore tied for the least number introduced in a generation. The generation I Pokemon being: Dewgong, Cloyster, Jynx, Lapras, and Articuno.

--Brocky (talk) 08:11, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Weird. I wonder why it wasn't there already? Thanks for pointing it out. ^★Jo the Marten^★ ಠ_ಠ♥ 08:39, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Pokemon number

It lists 39 Pokemon on the page, but states that there are 35 Ice type. Even if you don't count forms and megas the number is still wrong. Same problem with Ghost type.

AonDuine (talk) 00:29, 17 October 2015 (UTC)AonDuine

Really? Copied names, removed Megas/alternate forms...

1. Snowy Castform
2. Snorunt
3. Glalie
4. Regice
5. Glaceon
6. Vanillite
7. Vanillish
8. Vanilluxe
9. Cubchoo
10. Beartic
11. Cryogonal
12. Bergmite
13. Avalugg
14. Jynx
15. Articuno
16. Swinub
17. Piloswine
18. Delibird
19. Smoochum
20. Spheal
21. Sealeo
22. Walrein
23. Mamoswine
24. Froslass
25. Dewgong
26. Cloyster
27. Lapras
28. Sneasel
29. Snover
30. Abomasnow
31. Weavile
32. Frost Rotom*
33. Kyurem
34. Amaura
35. Aurorus

Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:03, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

I stand corrected apparently I can't count. Thank you. The page does say "(counting forms and Mega Evolutions that change typing as different Pokémon)" so my confusion is justified. This should be changed or reworded.

AonDuine (talk)AonDuine

I see. I believe that means things like, Castform is counted as 4 different Pokemon since its forms change types. But I'm not sure how it might be reworded effectively... Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:15, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

It already says, "(counting forms and Mega Evolutions that change typing as different Pokémon)". That is why Snowy Casform & Frost Rotom count in the 35, while Mega Glalie, Mega Abomasnow, Black Kyurem, and White Kyurem do not (as they're already counted by their base forms). - Kogoro - Talk to me - 01:18, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Alolan Forms

When counting Pokémon introduced that are the Ice type, Frost Rotom counts towards Gen V, but Alolan Sandshrew, Sandslash, Vulpix, and Nintales don't count towards Gen VII. They're alternate forms that change typing, so could someone please explain why? AmoongussForLife (talk) 12:26, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

For some reason, they count on the page for the Dark-type. I remember having one of my edits to Crabominable's page reverted after listing that it was the only Ice-type introduced in Gen VII disregarding Alolan Forms, something the Ice-type page lists in its introduction by generation records, only for something saying the same thing to get put in later on. Azureprism (talk) 10:45, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

If someone did it wrong, just fix it. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:17, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Trivia: No Ice specialist in GenVII, less Ice-types than Legendaries

Previously, there was a trivia comment that Ice was the only type to have a gym leader or Elite Four member in every generation. That stopped being the case in GenVII and thus it was removed. From that though, perhaps came another interesting bit of trivia that I am wondering if it's worth adding:

-Ice is the only type without a dedicated specialist being introduced in Generation VII (with Faba specializing in Psychic and Ryuki specializing in Dragon, to add to the Captains, Kahunas, Elite Four, and Guzma/Plumeria/Molayne).

Also possibly trivia-worthy is the fact that, at 40 Pokemon, the Ice-type is the only type to have less Pokemon than there are official Legendary Pokemon, where the Bulbapedia page currently has the count at 43 official Legendary Pokemon. TheAlopex (talk) 02:08, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

I've added the former point. I'm not in love with the latter since it's kind of comparing apples and oranges, but I wouldn't be opposed to it if someone else decided to add it. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 06:14, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Shiny Ice-types

I was browsing the list of shiny Pokémon in the anime and noted that of all the types, the only one to not have any shiny of that type appear in the anime is the Ice-type, although we do see a picture of a shiny Swinub in Karabari's Pokédex in SS014. Would this count as noteworthy trivia? Pseudonym (talk) 00:47, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Too specific.--ForceFire 06:03, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

I had a random thought (epiphany? lol idk) regarding “Frozen” and its controversial depiction of Elsa’s anxiety/depression.

While I agree that “looking pretty and flawless literally ALL THE TIME” is definitely part of the issue, I think it’s also part of a bigger problem the movie faces in terms of Elsa’s character.

When I first saw the movie and then read about how “‘Frozen’ depicts mental illness”, “Elsa has depression and anxiety!”, etc., I was honestly kind of…skeptical, I guess?

I did a lot of thinking about why I felt that Elsa having depression/anxiety just didn’t ring true to me, even having viewed the scenes of her stressing out about her coronation, her scenes with Anna at the ice castle, her guilt and horror at seeing Hans’ soldiers nearly killed by her icicles, etc.

I think I’ve finally figured it out, though—while Elsa’s illness makes sense when depicted through a shallow, entirely visual interpretation, it starts to become more muddled once you think about it more deeply.

The first problem, I think, is the source of Elsa’s illness. Yeah, yeah, I know we’re supposed to think “well, it’s her ice powers, of course!”, but aside from that vague idea that gets played straight and subverted throughout the movie (“Let It Go”, anyone? “Ice powers are bad ’cause they hurt people, but…I’m alone on a mountain, now, so I guess they’re acceptably empowering now :D”), all the situations that cause her fears seem remarkably…convenient.

Take the coronation, for instance. Elsa starts to accidentally make ice freeze her sceptor, so she gets nervous anout it. I feel that here we were supposed to make the connection that there was some kind of deeper, underlying cause to her “conceal, don’t feel” mentality, but this fails in its attempt because really, why WOULDN’T anyone be nervous at his/her coronation? Her powers clearly pose a problem a non-magical person would not have to deal with, true, but we learn later the consequences of Elsa’s icy magic, and…some people gasp, the duke of Weaselton mutters, “Witchcraft!” and…Elsa runs away?

Again, I know this scene was trying to send the audience obvious signals that “magic = bad” in Arendelle, as the scene with the trolls did at the beginning, as well, yet we NEVER see these implications come into fruition. Because Elsa spends so much time safely hidden away from any prejudices in her childhood and as an adult when she runs to the mountains, the audience can’t really envision any true problem befalling her, because none really legitimately threaten her at any point. There’s no commoners whispering about how magic saps the life out of their crops. There’s no royal regent who’s notoriously anti-magic and influences his/her people using propaganda about how magic stole the life of the second-born princess (wouldn’t that be cool, though?). There’s nothing to suggest that Elsa would be hurt because she’s magical. Ostracized, maybe, but killed or injured? Seems unlikely, given the evidence we’re given by the events of the plot (the trolls’ little foretelling at the beginning doesn’t count—there’s NO follow-up on that!).

“Everlasting winter” is a flimsy excuse, too, because the movie takes place over the course of, what, a day? Two? How are we supposed to feel the danger and tension of this supposedly horrible fate when the movie refuses to dwell on it at all in any significant way? Hans gives blankets to the Arendellians, yes, but that’s basically it. Why not get a little political about it? What about trade with Weaselton? I don’t think the movie ever mentions what they trade, but why not certain crops? What’ll happen now that Arendelle is perpetually frozen?

Because the movie doesn’t give any sufficient weight to the fate of Arendelle or their prejudices against magic, Elsa’s anguished actions seem unlike the actions of a depressed person yearning to break away from the prejudiced society she is meant to rule over and more the actions of a woman who had ice powers, gets nervous about said ice powers and not being able to control then, gets gasped at after accidentally revealing powers, sings empowering!! song about how she doesn’t want to hide her powers anymore after escaping to the mountains, then gets scared again after her estranged sister and some soldiers visit her to get her to come back to Arendelle, gets captured and feels defeated about that, then is somehow okay because The Power of Love :D :D :D

Elsa may FEEL depressed/anxious throughout the film, but she has a justifiable reason for every instance. Because her emotions can be easily justified, there’s no reason for the audience to look for a deeper, lurking issue. I’m not saying that people with depression/anxiety don’t have environmental/societal reasons for being in that state of mind, but Elsa’s are just so incredibly convenient that, though many people were angered by Elsa’s illness being effectively gone via the power of ~sisterly love~, I was kind of unsurprised by the ordeal. “Of COURSE love heals her,” I was thinking irritably, “the movie keeps her emotions acceptably repressed because ‘lol kids’ movie’ and focused on problems that were solved by the end. It’s wrapped up perfectly. Why go deeper into the complexity of a genuinely depressed/anxious person when you can do a superficial by-the-numbers replication of typical tropes and then slap a handy progressive label on it for all the meta fans?”

Because Elsa reacts to everything more or less normally, the indication of a deeper issue is lost. A good example of this done right is Jessie’s fear of boxes in “Toy Story 2”—at first, we are confused by Jessie’s claustrophobia, given that the other toys, like the Stinky Pete, seem fine with being boxed up. Because Jessie is the only one acting “irrationally”, the audience can detect that something’s up.

This brings up another thing that’s attempted by “Frozen”, and that is a character foil to Elsa—her sister, Anna. Anna is meant to be the Woody to Elsa’s Jessie—the adjusted, “normal” one, so to speak. This character is the one who digs to the root of the troubled character’s issue and helps them conquer their anxiety. The reason Anna’s tireless and yet fruitless attempts to understand Elsa’s frustration and fear fail narratively is because Anna has no idea what it is like having ice powers. Maybe that was the point, but because Anna is so different from Elsa in terms of supernatural ability, the attempt is lost. Woody and Jessie work as foils because they are both toys and have been loved by kids they were separated from—though Woody wasn’t abandoned by Andy like Jessie was by Emily, he has enough of a connection to her that he can accurately imagine the anguish and grief that being abandoned would bring.

Anna has no such starting connection to Elsa, though—they’re sisters, yes, but they don’t KNOW each other. Anna is just as much a stranger to Elsa as any of the everyday Arendellian; therefore, Elsa is alone in her fears and doubts, and the audience is rendered alone and in the dark due to this narrative isolation. We cannot fully connect with Elsa despite the movie prettifying her and repressing her emotions in order to make her more palatable/relatable because, despite “Frozen”’s attempts, her internal conflict is ridiculously simplified and the complexity of mental illness is ripped away, leaving only a vague character in its wake.