Talk:Saturn

"Saturn's hair resembles Purugly's ears"? They resemble (in my opinion) Glameow's ears, not Purugly's.Haruka uzumaki File:Ani038MS.gif 18:20, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Definitely closer to Glameow than Purugly. Though I also see a resemblance to Kadabra's ears and he has that. --FabuVinny ^T-C-S 18:33, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

i think they look sorta like both. i'm having trouble deciding between the two.UkiraGrace611 15:22, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Toxicroak

Is the Toxicroak in DP086 the same color as this one? If it is darker, then Saturn's is a shiny. ~$aturn¥oshi ^{THE VOICES} 16:08, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

It looks as though it is the same color. Unless all Toxicroak in the anime are shiny, Saturn's is not. ~$aturn¥oshi ^{THE VOICES} 15:17, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Not enough evidence exists to say that the anime is treating the game's alternate coloration as the normal coloration. Since Girasol, Opal, or whatever the hell the third to Diamond or Pearl's going to be won't change Toxicroak's coloring, and since the evidence within DP069 points to Saturn's Toxicroak being of alternate-coloration (including an emergence effect from the Poké Ball), nothing can be said for sure. Besides, it's possible that the DP086 Toxicroak is the very same Toxicroak from DP069, we just didn't see Saturn controlling it (who's to say Saturn didn't lend it to that rocker?). --Shiningpikablu252 18:39, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, we just need more Toxicroak. Plus, my players' guide for Battle Revolution shows a Toxicroak of this color as well... ~$aturn¥oshi ^{THE VOICES} 18:44, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Personality and Knowledge Differences

Has anyone noticed that Saturn doesn't seem to keep the same attitude with different story lines? For instance, in the games, he doesn't seem to be aware of the grander theme of Boss Cyrus's plan, however, in the anime, he clearly knows what is going on and follows it. He also appears to be a very calm, cool, and collected man in the games, however he blows up easily in the manga and has huge anger issues, and is a workaholic. He makes sure everything is perfect and in place, while in the games, he could care less about that. Saturn's Girl 00:49, 21 July 2008 (UTC)♥♥♥Saturn's Girl 00:49, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

He really hasn't had that many apperances in the anime to tell. --☆ケンジガール 04:47, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but he clearly stated "We are now one step closer to the Spear Pillar." in the games, he had no idea how this new world was going to be made, or what was needed for the creation to begin. He also has far more important and revealing roles in Team Galactic's scheme. With the things he's doing in the anime, if he was clueless, you'd see him asking an awful lot of questions, like: "Why am I doing this?" or: "What purpose does this theft have?"Saturn's Girl 12:56, 21 July 2008 (UTC)♥♥♥Saturn's Girl 12:56, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Can we please say his Toxicroak is not shiny now?

If you look at the anime artwork, along with that Toxicroak that was in DP086, you can clearly see that they are all the same. It's just another example of different anime colors. Gligar are pink in the anime and purple in the games. Toxicroak are no different. They're a dark blue in the games and a lighter blue in the anime. It just happens to slightly resemble the shiny form. As you can see from the anime art compared to the shiny sprite, it is a much darker blue and the Toxicroak's sack isn't pink. Further evidence comes in that the Toxicroak did not sparkle when it came out of its Poké Ball. It looked like any other regular Pokémon emerging from there ball. Odds are we are not going to see that many more Toxicroak, unless Brock's Croagunk evolves, so it's ridiculous to wait until then to confirm it. I don't think we should have something up that long that is false anyway. Saturn's Toxicroak is just a regular Toxicroak. --☆ケンジガール 23:36, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Is anyone going to respond? If not, I'm going to go ahead and do it myself. --☆ケンジガール 00:53, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

No, because such an action could probably lead to continuations of edit warring. Besides, the evidence within DP069 points to Saturn's Toxicroak indeed being of alternate coloration. It's got the colors, it's got a no-seal Poké Ball emergence effect, it meets all the basic requirements of an alternate-color Pokémon. We have confirmed alternate-colors that have not shown emergence effects, why would we say a Pokémon with an alternate-color palette and a no-seal emergence effect is not an alternate-coloration? As far as I'm concerned, DP086 does not have sufficient evidence to prove otherwise--for all we know, Saturn could have lent his Toxicroak for the collection. Odds are that the next Toxicroak will prove that Saturn's is indeed of alternate coloration. --Shiningpikablu252 02:38, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

All of the Poké Balls, as of the Diamond and Pearl season, have that sparkle effect even without the seal. A good example is Reggie's Staraptor.

File:Reiji'sStaraptor.jpg

It emerged the EXACT same way that Saturn's Toxicroak did. Yet it isn't an alternate coloration. And how many Pokémon have been confirmed not to have that shiny effect? Most of the shiny Pokémon seen have either been wild or never returned to their Poké Ball. And the "Saturn lent his Toxicroak to the Collection" statement is the most absurd thing I've heard. Lets be realistic please. And even without the Toxicroak from DP086, the anime artwork should be enough evidence to prove that it isn't. It's the exact same color as Saturn's and we know that the anime art never depicts the alternate color Pokémon. Unless we can prove with out a shadow-of-a-doubt that it's shiny, then we shouldn't put it. --☆ケンジガール 03:00, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

People are still going to argue the point until either the game's normal-coloration appears on a Toxicroak, we see way too many of the controversial color on multiple Toxicroak in the same general area, or if the dub paint-edits either the DP069 Toxicroak or the DP086 Toxicroak into the game's normal colors to prove that certain Toxicroak is not of alternate-coloration. We should wait until one of these events happen.

Besides, we're pretty much just fueling the fire by even having this discussion in the first place. If the dub leaves the DP069 Toxicroak as is, odds are these arguments are going to get red-hot, and if we removed the information now, we'd probably be looking at big-time edit wars once the dub's aired.

And furthermore, what if Ash's Noctowl returns and doesn't display its signature effect? Would we then say that the anime doesn't recognize alternate-coloration anymore despite the two Toxicroaks and the DP073 Dustox? --Shiningpikablu252 03:04, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

So they only reason we're keeping it is because of preventing an edit war? Might as well take away all the gender things on the anime's Pokémon pages while we're at it since they are always the subject of an edit war. Hey how bout we say that Pikachu is male too so that it'll be what most of the users want. Oh and since when should we not talk about something for fears of fueling a fire. Is there a Bulbapedia mafia or something? It's a legitment argument.

My point is that if we can't prove it for a fact, then we should leave it at the default, which would be the normal coloration. It seems that we are only leaning to the alternate coloration because of all the shiny fanboys/girls will be upset if we don't have the shiny sprite on Saturn's page. That would be like us saying Charizard is male because almost everyone feels that it is, even though it has never been stated. If an edit war gets started than protect the page.

And I don't understand how a dubbed episode will effect this. Are they going to color it differently or something? When have they ever done that? --☆ケンジガール 03:27, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Surely if its coloured Shiny then it is shiny? Does it have to actually be said or does common sense not come in to this? Thats not a rude comment by the way it is a genuine question. But then I guess im just one of those users who for some utterly bizarre reason think Pikachu and Charizard are Male. Nothing to do with confirmed girl pokemon have a crush on them. I can understand things like Squirtle not being clear, thats really up for debate, but really something like this, use your eyes, its coloured shiny, so surely its shiny? Guardian of Earth 11:16, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

It's not as obvious as you think. If you noticed, all of the previous shiny Pokémon have been the exact same colors as their game counterparts. This Toxicroak, however, is not an exact match of its shiny form in the games. The real shiny form is a much lighter blue and has a pink sack. That's why I'm certain that this is just an example of how anime colors are different from the games. I mean look at Shinx for example. It is much darker in the games as it is in the anime. I firmly believe that it's the same think with Toxicroak. The only think different between Shinx and Toxicroak is that Shinx's shiny form is a completely different color while Toxicroak's shiny form just looks somewhat similar to its anime colors.

And you misunderstood me on the Pikachu/Charizard thing. I'm not saying that other users are crazy for believing they're male. I too believe that. But there are other users who don't feel that they are male so that's why they are marked as unknown. Well why can't be the same for his Toxicroak? If some don't feel that its shiny, and its not confirmed, then we shouldn't put it down as shiny. You see where I'm getting at now? --☆ケンジガール 13:54, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok, yeah i get ya. When I said the bit about common sense I didnt sound rude did I? I was trying to say it in the most polite way, but couldnt think of one. And now that youve pointed that out, I agree its probably not shiny, so yeah, youve changed my mind. Guardian of Earth |SGMS 2010 13:58, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

A compromise

How bout we use this sprite? File:SaturnToxicroakSprite.png

It looks exactly like Saturn's and we can say that its possible that it's shiny. Here's a comparison.

File:SaturnToxicroakSprite.png

So what do you say? --☆ケンジガール 07:09, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Looks good it's not shiny or normal I like it.It should be on the page instead--CoolPikachu! 07:14, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I'll set it up now and see how people react --☆ケンジガール 07:38, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay.--CoolPikachu! 07:40, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I think thats a perfect solution. That should keep both sides happy, not shiny and not normal. Thankyou for your time. Guardian of Earth |SGMS 2010 23:11, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

If that's the case, we have to discuss the issue with Gligar and a specific debuted Kecleon in the anime. ht14 03:59, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

No because we know that those are not the shiny forms. This was necessary because some people feel that the Toxicroak is shiny and other don't. With Gligar, everyone knows they're not shiny and those are just anime colors. --ケンジのガール 05:15, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Toxicroak Page

I think Toxicroak should have it's own page. Does anyone agree?☆♥ShinyPiKa 15:26, 9 August 2008 (UTC)♥☆

Not unless Toxicroak is shown recurring. We've already deleted a Saturn's Toxicroak page once before due to lack of notability. It may take a few more appearances before it can prove itself notable for an article. --Shiningpikablu252 15:53, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I thought that if we had a Saturn's Toxicroak page, we could decuss it's shinyness there.ShinyPiKa 03:49, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

That's really not a good enough reason to make a page for it. I mean we don't even have pages for most of Butch and Cassidy's Pokémon and they appeared way more than Saturn has. --ケンジのガール 05:28, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Project CharacterDex

At the end of the page shouldn't there be something to say its part of project CharacterDex?--Fern 24 18:48, 19 August 2008 (UTC)