Talk:Beauty (Trainer class)

Please, someone remove the double "Image from" at the Stadium 2 image box. Thanks. SaitoFX 20:54, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

About the transgender beauty in XY

See this screenshot:

I checked it out in Japanese, and she's a known thing over there, too. Her dialogue is "半年前はカラテおうだったのに医学の力ってスゲーよね！" ("I was a Black Belt six months ago, but medicine sure is amazing!") or something very like it. Nazerine (talk) 17:50, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I'm assuming it's not appropriate to have a debate about whether or not she could possibly be trans in the edit summary field, so could we do that here? I don't see why there is any reason to assume she isn't, and there's plenty of reason to assume she is:

• Black Belts are an all-male class; the name in Japanese is カラテおう="Karate King"--not something you could call a lady...
• In the Japanese dialogue she mentions having undergone medical therapy.
• The change is notable enough for her to talk about it? One would think she wouldn't care to mention it if she'd just gone from a sporty jock girl to a fashionable one in a few months.

Like, aside from assuming that GF/Nintendo are so transphobic that they would veto any trans representation, no matter how subtle, I don't see why there should be any doubt. And that's a pretty unfair assumption to make of the Japanese devs. Nazerine (talk) 21:42, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

About the male nursery aide: he states in Japanese that he is male, but crossdresses for his job. This does not make him definitively transgender, but one could make an argument that he might be trans. This is why I said the beauty in question is "definitively transgender". Nazerine (talk) 21:48, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

FWIW, おう is not absolutely equivalent to "King", a male noun. It's equally "monarch/ruler", or even just "master"/"champion". Though it does commonly assume male gender, it is not necessarily gendered, and that's a problem if you want to try to use that to say "Black Belts MUST be male". That said, the rest of the dialogue (Japanese in particular, supposing it's accurate) clearly suggests she had a sex-reassignment operation. Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:58, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough; it's true, I've seen it both ways, though in my experience using "ou" for a woman is kind of odd. But I still don't see why there should be any doubt as to whether or not she's trans, especially since that is how the Japanese fandom has read her: http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=39361775 Nazerine (talk) 22:03, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Just throwing it out there that the Beauty isn't necessarily the first ever character implied to be trans*, there is also Akari from How I Became a Pokémon Card. Having said that, I do believe the statement that she is implied to be trans* in both Japanese and English should stay on the article. --ZestyCactus 01:33, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Oh, didn't know about Akari. That's pretty cool, thanks! Also, here's an article by a professional translator on this: http://legendsoflocalization.com/was-this-girl-in-pokemon-xy-originally-a-guy/ Looks like Tiddlywinks' interpretation of カラテおう is correct, if there was any remaining doubt (: Nazerine (talk) 17:37, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

For reference's sake (for staff and users alike), and for the benefit of anyone who might be tempted to remove the reference to the (possibly) transgender beauty trainer: it is not to be removed without my express say-so. This is something that deserves to be noted on, especially given its present across language versions. --Evil Figment (talk) 20:09, 20 December 2014 (UTC)