Talk:JN105

Date

Where is the date listed as being confirmed for the 8th? Playerking95 (talk) 07:33, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

Is Serena confirmed? --Taufiq32 13:46, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

No. At time of writing this post, she still wasn't confirmed in any official way. Therefore, she should be removed from this page and JN105 should also be removed from Serena's page until the episode is released to avoid confusion. --Horn (talk) 06:44, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

There is more than enough evidence at this point on Twitter to justify Serena staying on this page. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 08:48, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

She already confirmmed. --Taufiq32 11:15, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Green lights

I personally think the green lights trivia is perfectly valid. It's only stated to be a possibility and not an absolute truth. In addition, the choice of making the lights green seems rather specific to me. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 13:17, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Not to mention it being adjacent to the water. Definitely think it's worth a mention. It's a very interesting connection and definitely seems plausible. Landfish7 13:27, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

It seems circumstantial at best, and there's nothing in the scene to suggest that Sernea has unwavering love for Ash. The lights just happened to be green.--Reinhartmax (talk) 13:36, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

I read about this theory, I thought it was amazing for a (supposedly) children's series. --Hikaru Wazana (talk) 13:59, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Come on guys. If you return to the final episode Serena appeared before, AmourShipping was absolutely happening explictly. I didn't realized that until this edit is updated. For anyways, I support for this trivia. --KyleRGiggs (talk) 14:52, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Serena liking Ash doesn’t mean that this is a reference. Her attraction to him was not in this episode and the only ‘source’ is the color of a light. If we can’t determine a move without explicit wording I don’t think we should be jumping onto this shipping speculationPikablu (talk) 15:08, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Then just meet in middle. The green light is absolutely unessential. It could be replaced by light from an Ampharos or what, why green light? There must have the reason. I don't think it is coincidence when I was recalled by the Gatsby. --KyleRGiggs (talk) 15:18, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

There's absolutely no reason to make in that moment such big focus on those lights that don't even look natural there, other than to give some subtext. Other media refereneces are completely different thing from claiming use of a move. Here, it's only a trivia and we know about Ash and Serena's romantic feelings.--Rocket Grunt 15:19, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Besides, when I was told there is a novel called "The Green Ray" written by Jules Verne, the green light absolutely make sense. As a result, I decided to retract for my words for "The Great Gatsby". Instead, "The Green Ray" is ratherly make sense for it.--KyleRGiggs (talk) 15:22, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

"The Green Ray" makes no sense in this context, it's not related to the scene and it's a specific optical phenomena that appears when the sun is setting or rising. Coincidentally, it already appeared in the anime when Ash's Lycanroc evolved.--Rocket Grunt 15:31, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Serena has feeling for Ash-which was not in the episode-and Ash does not have feelings for her. You’re all looking too deep into a light and grasping at straws.Pikablu (talk) 15:36, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

I believe this also to be a reach, unless someone in the writing/animating crew explicitly states this - like how baby's breath was used in XY140 as a means of flower language - I don't think we can class it as trivia. If anything it would only serve as speculation. Azure/ChromeVoid42 (talk) 16:56, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

A simple green light is too speculative to be in the mainspace—or, since we removed the shipping space: too speculative for non-shipping pages. It can go on AmourShipping, not here. Tiddlywinks (talk) 23:56, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Having heard everyone's opinions, I agree that it does seem a bit too far over the speculation line. I really, really like the connection, but that doesn't make it encyclopedic. I like the idea of maybe including it in the AmourShipping page, though even then I think the point that her romantic feelings don't seem to play a role in this episode does count against it. Landfish7 05:06, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

So far no one proposed any alternate explanation for the green light that has no reason to be there. There's enough people, even here, who were convinced it was a potential hint. Other media references, by their nature, are rarely explained later, they're meant to be slightly hidden because the audience is supposed to find them. This reference would be not only in the "trivia" section which is specifically made for reasoned speculations, but also have used words like "could" not "is". Having this mentioned doesn't damage the page or spread any misinformation, while NOT having it is actually non-encyclopedic because it cuts off any potential discussion, it means we MADE a decision how it is supposed to be interpreted, not leaving it for the readers.--Rocket Grunt 12:54, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Alternate explanation? You’re the one insisting it has meaning. It’s your job to prove it has meaning, not that it lacks it. Putting it there is making a decision by giving in to speculation. The world of Pokémon can have a green light at the end of a dock. It’s not that strange. And again, this episode had nothing to do with Serena’s feelings towards Ash. Pikablu (talk) 13:16, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

This is pretty simple. This isn't Serena standing on tiptoe with the camera explicitly not showing information and then Serena moves away blushing. This is just Serena standing there and there's some lights next to her. There's nothing else to it except what people want to imagine. That's shipping. Shipping belongs on shipping pages, that's what they're for. That kind of wild speculation does not belong on this page.

As far as "cutting off" discussion, Bulbapedia is not meant for shipping discussion. Tiddlywinks (talk) 13:44, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

I agree with Tiddlywinks. This is an encyclopedia and on Bulbapedia there is a standard of credibility that trivia needs to meet before it should be included, whereas this is just textbook speculation. If there was stronger evidence I think it would be a great piece of trivia, but all we have is a light by a dock. Landfish7 15:49, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

I think it could easily be a reference. I agree with TRG's post. It doesn't have to be presented as fact, just a possibility. And as I said before, what makes me believe it's a reference is that the light color was specifically chosen to be green. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 17:45, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

I fear it comes across less as a neat literary reference and more as evidence for Serena liking Ash, which falls under shipping. If it was any other character, it would just be green lights. It only works if we speculate that it's about Serena's feelings for Ash, which we shouldn't do. As you point out, we can sometimes speculate a little bit.. but only if there is strong evidence. This isn't simply speculating that this is a reference to The Great Gatsby, it's specifically speculating that this particular moment is an AmourShipping moment that references The Great Gatsby. It just goes too far. Landfish7 18:06, 12 April 2022 (UTC)