Talk:Master Trainer
Nic777 (talk) 09:25, 3 December 2018 (UTC) Why isn't it allowed yet to add a list of all trainers in Pokémon Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee? Nic777 (talk) 09:25, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
Argument for Game Grumps to be included in the Trivia
I saw the slight editing war done on behalf of some of the different trainers. While I agree that some cases of naming can be chalked up to coincidence and therefore, shouldn't be counted. I have o make a hard argument that the Psychic Ghost Trio is very much a wholesale reference to Game Grumps. Here's my points:
- Their names. Someone made the point that "It's not like Hiker Jim is a reference to Jimmy Hendrix" To which I say of course it isn't, because no one called Jimmy Hendrix "Jim". What people DO call the Game Grumps are "Arin", "Danny", and "Ross", which are all their preferred names and spellings. "Arin" is a very uncommon spelling of the name. Most people would spell it "Aaron", "Aron", or "Erin" in the form of a girl's name. "Arin Hanson" is one of the few people I know who's name is spelled as such, so it's not like the name "Trainer Arin was plucked from nowhere. Then there's "Danny". His real name is "Leigh Daniel Avidan", but he has prominently gone by "Danny" or "Dan" as a nickname, to the point that his stage persona is "Danny Sexbang" in his band. It would be weird if the Haunter trainer was named "Leigh" or "Daniel" because no one calls him that. They are named after what people call them. If Gengar's trainer was named "O'Donovan", yeah, you could make a better argument about Ross O'Donovan being the specific person, but the names were selected because they are named the way they name themselves.
- The fact they're a trio. Again, using the Hiker Jim example you used, of course we wouldn't bring it up if it was just one person in a herd of 153. Any one name could have been picked out of a hat and it wouldn't matter. But we are talking about 3 people lined up collectively in a row, all using the same Pokemon in the same evolutionary line. West and Keaton are notable because they both are part of the same line (And yes, the specific Pokemon helps too), but if say, only West was there and the next one was "Scientist Bobby", you'd have a harder chance of enforcing the fact they are a Batman reference. While the three may not have a particular likening to the ghost Pokemon, they are united in the way that it's an evolutionary line.
- They are well known figures in Nintendo's history. Arin was invited as one of the contestants in the Nintendo World Championships, and got pretty far into it, too! And Ross is known worldwide for his chaotic Mario Maker levels, many of which are featured by Nintendo. Not to mention, what was one of the Game Grumps' most popular playthroughs? Pokemon FireRed, as in, a Generation 1 remake. It would be highly fitting that a reference to them was put into another one. Point is, Nintendo obviously knew about them, as would the English translation team for Pokemon, so it'd be highly likely.
- Acknowledgement. Ross himself has tweeted the trio of trainers and has expressed a sense of fulfillment that it happened. If he didn't think they were representations of the three of them, why would he bother?
I won't make an edit of the trivia, but consider these next time someone does instead of just deleting and saying "It's not proven". Because I think there's very much reason to believe so.SirSomeguy (talk) 21:25, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
- That's not the point of the Jimmy argument. The point was just because someone is named Jim doesn't mean it's immediately a reference to anyone (famous or otherwise) named "Jim" or "Jimmy". Same case here. Arin may be an uncommon name, but there are other people named Arin. Danny and Ross are way too common of a name to be considered a reference. Danny could've been a reference to Danny Phantom or Ross... well, there are just simply way too many people with the first/surname of Ross. And Danny being a nickname is besides the point.
- Yes, they're grouped together, but it's still a coincidence and it may not be a reference at all. The Batman reference works because of the Pokemon they own and the names of the trainers being named after the actors that played Batman. If they were named anything else or given other Pokemon, then that trivia would not be there. As you say, the Pokemon helps that case. What do the Gastly line have to do with Game Grumps trio? Is it their mascot? Signature Pokemon? If not, then it's not a reference. A reference needs more than just the names matching, because anyone can pick a name and say it's a reference to someone.
- The last two points are completely irrelevant. So what if Ross acknowledges it? Doesn't automatically mean it's a reference. Unless he got word from TPCI themselves and confirmed the reference, it means nothing. And just because Nintendo knows them, doesn't mean The Pokemon Company will. And it also doesn't mean that Nintendo have the obligation to reference a youtuber in a game just because they did something with them.
- Just to re-iterate the main point: a reference must be more than just sharing the same name.--ForceFire 06:23, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- One other thing. That might not be definitely confirmable, but something that is much more definite is that of Lass Alexandra and Ace Trainer Jirard- likely references to Jirard Khalil (The Completionist) and Alex Faciane- also known as the Super Beard Bros. This is not simply conjecture; the Pokémon utilised primarily in their dual playthrough of Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen were, respectively, of the Dratini and Clefairy line- even being in their video thumbnails. With the similar naming of Arin, Danny, and Ross- alongside, albeit in a much less concrete manner, the Growlithe line (this is pure conjecture, however it fits a pattern) being named Austin and Satch (possibly to reference other YouTube content creators Austin "PeanutButterGamer" Hargrave and Satchell "Satchbag" Drakes, both at some time members of the NormalBoots group. All of these creators have collaborated with each other, so it's not just a mixed bag of references- it's a specific group of YouTube creators). There's a lot there, and I'm not completely sure it can even be called inconclusive at the moment. It's not the first time Pokémon games have alluded to fan creations- Interviewers Roxy & Oli were references to a Let's Play on the SomethingAwful Forums, frequented by Nob Ogasarawa, a translator for the games. It's no stretch to say that there may have been a member of the translation team that intended these references to occur. Whether it deserves to be put on the article is not my decision. TraxScrip813 (talk) 00:25, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- Oh, and an addendum to the Jimi Hendrix thing. Hiker Jim is not a reference. If it was Guitarist Jim, you could infer it. If it was Guitarist Jimi, then it would be pretty obviously a reference. Nearly nobody spells their name like that, and Hendrix is by and large the only person of heavy acclaim to use that spelling. And if there was also a group of trainers named Jack, Eric, and Ginger, one could make a reasonable assumption that it was an allusion to the band Cream because of the Jimi Hendrix reference. I still don't know if this passes the test, I just thought this was an important distinction to make. TraxScrip813 (talk) 13:37, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
West and Keaton
Another user has removed this line of trivia from this page for being speculation:
** The English names of the {{p|Zubat}} and {{p|Golbat}} Master Trainers, West and Keaton, are possible references to {{wp|Adam West}} and {{wp|Michael Keaton}}, both of whom have played the role of {{wp|Batman}}.
I do not see a reason to remove this, and would like to re-add it, as many trivia sections on the site include speculation, including several other points of trivia in the section this was removed from. Minibug (talk) 18:45, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- I support this. Two Trainers using bat Pokémon being named after Batman actors hardly seems like a coincidence. Plus, the trivia point includes the word "possible", so it's not trying to pass itself off as a verified, undeniable fact, just as something that is very likely. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 18:51, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Readding removed trivia
In addition to the trivia point mentioned in the above section, I'd like to propose the reintroduction of two trivia points they were once removed from the trivia section:
- The Dratini Master Trainer's name, Jirard, is a potential reference to the YouTuber "The Completionist", who once completed Pokémon FireRed/LeafGreen using a Dratini.
- Several Master Trainers share their names with characters from The Simpsons: Moe, Barney, Ralph, and Seymour. All of them are Bird Keepers and use Flying-type Pokémon, giving them a common characteristic and, in my opinion, evidence that this could be an intentional reference.
Feel free to voice your opinions regarding what you think of these. Me, personally, I would be happy to see at least the latter one re-added. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 19:11, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Jirard: Eh... would rather stay away from mentioning him. I don't think he has any affinity towards the Dratini line outside of using it in the FRLG playthrough.
Pikachu would make more sense anyway. - Simpsons: A bunch of random characters with no relation to flying, unlike the bat Master trainers being named after batman actors. Just a random coincidence, doubt it was intentional.--ForceFire 06:46, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
