Talk:Tail Whip (move)

Debate over use in the anime

Upon seeing that the move Kangaskhan used to defeat Team Rocket was listed under the anime, I added more uses to it, like when Ash's Charmeleon, a giant Onix, the crystal Onix, a pink Nidoking, and Nurse Joy's Gyarados all use the same move Kangaskhan used to defeat Team Rocket (hitting them with their tails, sending Team Rocket blasting off), and Drake's Dragonite on Squirtle, all as Tail Whip. However, Kenji-girl deleted all of these and the Kangaskhan one as well, saying that Tail Whip and hitting an enemy with a tail are completely different. But if that's the case, then (unless the other ones count) the only Tail Whip we really see in the anime is Psyduck, which is mainly useless, to the point of Misty calling it "Tail Wag", twice. However, Psyduck's tail isn't quite as long and powerful as Charmeleon's, is it?

So, this has led to what appears to be a cross between a debate and a discussion over whether or not a Pokemon hitting an opponent (usually Team Rocket) with its tail counts as a Tail Whip. None of the other tail-related attacks seem to apply, however as far as I remember no one ever says "Tail Whip" in the anime, except Dexter and Misty, when referring to Psyduck's "Tail Wag".

I even added that people often speculate that those attacks are Tail Whip, however someone deleted it saying "not to insert speculation". However, the notes at the bottom of the edit page says "Do not misrepresent rumors, misconceptions, or opinions as fact." So as long as I don't say that it definitely IS Tail Whip (unless any evidence comes up), then I don't see what's wrong with it.

This discussion/debate has gone on for quite a while on Kenji=girl's talkpage, and at the suggestion of another user I have moved this discussion over to the talkpage for the article in question. Ghostkaiba297 17:51, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I think only when the trainer calls it out (or another trainer states that another Pokémon has used it) should count as it actually using it. As you say, many Pokémon have hit the opponent with its tail. However, the move Tail Whip does not cause damage and does not cause contact. Any case of a Pokémon hitting an opponent with its tail shouldn't be considered using this move for these reasons. Kevin Y (talk) 17:55, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

That's in the games, but wasn't Psyduck trying to hit Cloyster with it in the Bridge Bike Gang? Also, Ash never mentioned Flamethrower when Charizard breathed fire in his face, but that's quite obviously a Flamethrower, isn't it? Remember Psyduck is the only one officially mentioned to use Tail Whip, we don't know what it does for the other Pokemon with longer and more powerful tails. But if hitting an opponent with its tail is not a Tail Whip, what WOULD you call it? Not Aqua Tail (that move involves a spiral of water), not Tail Glow (that just involves the tail glowing), not Poison Tail (that's more of a slash), not Iron Tail (that requires the tail glowing before the attack), and not Slam, that requires wrapping the tail (or tongue, or tentacles, or vines, etc.) around the opponent and slamming them on the ground. If you had to name any attack, what would it be? Ghostkaiba297 18:18, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Why does Slam require wrapping something around the opponent? Look at the move description: "The foe is slammed with a long tail, vines, etc., to inflict damage." It says nothing about the tail having to wrap around the opponent. It looked like Ash's Charmeleon was simply "slamming" Paras with its tail.

As for Psyduck, we all know how weird that Pokémon is. But considering that we had never heard that move called out for before, how are we supposed to know what it's supposed to do? Look at its move description: "The user wags its tail cutely, making the foe less wary. The target's Defense stat is lowered." To me, if memory serves, this seems like what Psyduck was trying to do. It didn't look like Psyduck was trying to hit Cloyster; that's just common sense, even for Psyduck. So what move do you think Psyduck was really using, if not Tail Whip?

I also find it really strange that you're trying to find a bunch of examples of Pokémon using Tail Whip when it isn't called out for, but ironically, the one time where that move is declared, you're saying it isn't that move? Kevin Y (talk) 20:30, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I am not saying it isn't that move, I'm saying Psyduck is the only one who uses Tail Whip and has it officially declared as Tail Whip. There is no denying that Psyduck's "Tail Wag" is its Tail Whip. As for the Slam thing, I got that info from the only anime information related to it on this site, where it describes Lickitung's Slam attack. So are you saying that the act of a Pokemon hitting an opponent with its tail is the Slam attack? Cause if so, then there's our solution.

About Onix, Gyarados, Nidoking, Charmeleon, etc., I didn't at first consider the possibility that that was a Tail Whip (as Psyduck's Tail Whip didn't appear to do anything), but I kept on reading in episode descriptions that that's what it was, and I read the Kangaskhan thing up there, and thought that if that was a Tail Whip (and a more effective one than Psyduck's), than Charmeleon, Onix, etc. would also apply.

More to the bit on Psyduck, what I was trying to say was that it was the only Pokemon to use a move officially declared as Tail Whip, though because its tail appears to be small and weak (as opposed to Kangaskhan, Charmeleon, Onix, Gyarados, Nidoking, and Dragonite) it seems to not have any effect when Psyduck uses it. Ghostkaiba297 20:42, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

And here's just a hypothetical question. Picture a man with long dark hair and a monkeylike tail. Now, imagine him whipping a small, bald man in the head with his tail, sending him flying into a wall. Pretend you have never heard of anything to do with Pokemon before, anime or games. Among other name suggestions for the attack, would you call it a Tail Whip? Ghostkaiba297 21:23, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Hahahahahahahahaha! Do I guess right that TTEchidna is the main guy in charge here? Well, in the one of the first episodes that this tail attack was used (not counting Psyduck's Tail Whip, as that does not qualify as an attack), The Problem with Paras, TTEchidna does not seem to disagree that this is Tail Whip, and pointing out its differences in the anime, as under trivia, errors, he said "Tail Whip does not do any damage in the games" or something like that. He'll be on his way here soon himself, probably, and he'll voice his opinion. So far he's said that it could be, but it could also be Slam or something like that. Ghostkaiba297 01:59, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

An explicit order that does damage means that it's an error in the episode. A non-specific order that does damage does not mean Tail Whip. TTEchidna 02:50, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

What, does Ash tell Charmeleon to use Tail Whip? I haven't seen the episode in a while... also doesn't Charmeleon disobey Ash unless he's up against another Fire Pokemon? (that is, until Charizard Chills) Ghostkaiba297 02:52, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

How's about we all vote on which attack we think it is? Sign your name under the subheading for whichever you think it is. Ghostkaiba297 02:56, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

We don't need a vote. TTE specifically and clearly said what was going on. Why do you keep beating a dead horse? ^Maverick_Nate 02:58, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Do you mean it isn't clear whether or not that it's Tail Whip, Slam, or a different attack? Or do you mean that it isn't a Tail Whip? Ghostkaiba297 03:10, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

No, I mean it is clear which attack it is. It is whatever the trainer says it is. If there is no trainer to command the Poké, then it isn't truly considered a game attack...thus, not Slam, Tail Whip, etc. ^Maverick_Nate 03:15, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I wuz asking TTE... but are you saying that when Charmeleon breathes fire in Ash's face, it isn't a Flamethrower, it's just "breathing fire?" So its Tail Whip was really just "hitting Team Rocket with its tail"? I mean, when wild Pokemon use attacks, I could've sworn some of them were named by characters, like Gyarados's Dragon Rage (Gyarados was trying to kill James, its master, after all).Ghostkaiba297 03:28, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

If a wild Pokémon uses a move, and then somebody says "that Pokémon just used [...]" (as Brock does so very often, or at least did earlier in the series. I didn't watch anything from the end of the Hoenn series to the recent episode with Darkrai and Cresselia), I think that counts. If nobody says anything about the move at all, then everything is all left up for speculation, and we usually only insert undeniable facts in these articles.

I think it's clear what we do now. Everybody (except Ghostkaiba) seems to believe that only Psyduck's use of the move should be included in the article, as it was the only one explicitly stated. I think we've reached consensus. Kevin Y (talk) 05:09, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

It's truly ridiculous that it's gone this far. Tail smacking is not Tail Whip. Let it go already. You're not going to win. The only true Tail Whip was done by Misty's Psyduck. --ケンジのガール 05:21, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

OK, so it's not a Tail Whip, but why do all the episodes say that it is a Tail Whip? The Problem with Paras, the Crystal Onix, Enter the Dragonite, the episode summaries for those all say it's a Tail Whip. Maybe you should clear that up with them. But now the question is: What do you call the tail-smacking attack? Tail Whip is ruled out. It is Slam or is it something else? Ghostkaiba297 05:31, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Simply "hitting it with its tail" in most cases. ^tc²₆tc₂₆ 05:32, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I guess if it isn't an official named attack, then if everyone here agrees with Tc26, and no one else has any opinions on it, then our debate/discussion is resolved. Charmeleon just hit Team Rocket with its tail to send them blasting off. Ghostkaiba297 06:03, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Dewgong?

I'd hate to restart this argument, but why does the article say Dewgong used Tail Whip? Did a character specifically state that it was Tail Whip? --Landfish7 21:05, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

It's been deleted. I saw an image, so I figured why not. But seeing the argument above, I think I'll get rid of it. Littlmiget123 04:33, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

In the manga.

Were Rhyhorn and Golduck commanded to use Tail Whip or are they just attacking the foe with their tail? Also, I think it'd be interesting trivia to state in the article how Tail Whip is often mistaken to be a move that causes damage due to the english name including the word "whip" rather than "wag" (like in the Japanese version) to demonstrate the Pokémon "whipping" its tail back and forth cutely rather than wagging it. --Landfish7 20:49, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

yes they were commanded to use it Ataro 20:52, 30 December 2010 (UTC)