Talk:Wigglytuff (Pokémon)

Enough with all of the Arceus comparisons!!!!!

Didn't anyone learn from the mistake on Crobat's page!? NO ARCEUS COMPARISONS!!! SharKing 21:09, 12 September 2008 (UTC)SharKing

Let's review just whom has what over Arceus, so we can stop this trivia add-ins once and for all:

• HP: Blissey, Chansey, Wobbuffet, Wailord, Snorlax, Giratina (both the Another form and the Origin form), Slaking, Drifblim, Hariyama, Wigglytuff, Munchlax, Lapras, Vaporeon, Wailmer, Lanturn.
  • Cresselia ties with Arceus.
• Attack: Deoxys Normal and Attack forms, Rampardos, Slaking, Regigigas, Groudon, Rayquaza, Rhyperior, Salamence, Metagross, Dragonite, Tyranitar, Machamp, Kingler, Rhydon, Flareon, Scizor, Ursaring, Ho-Oh, Breloom, Absol, Garchomp, Mamoswine, Pinsir, Gyarados, Heracross, Armaldo, Cranidos, Honchkrow, Gallade, Azelf, Electivire.
  • Origin form Giratina, Hitmonlee, Granbull, Donphan, Blaziken, Hariyama, Sharpedo, Crawdaunt, Staraptor, Luxray, Weavile, Dialga, and Palkia tie with Arceus.
• Defense: Shuckle, Steelix, Regirock, Cloyster, Aggron, Bastiodon, Onix, Defense form Deoxys, Registeel, Probopass, Forretress, Skarmory, Lairon, Torkoal, Groudon, Nosepass, Dusknoir, Golem, Lugia, Dusclops, Relicanth, Metagross, Rhyperior, Leafeon, Uxie, Omastar, Tangrowth, Gliscor.
  • Weezing, Rhydon, Magcargo, Donphan, Dialga, Another form Giratina, and Cresselia tie with Arceus.
• Speed: Any form of Deoxys except Defense form, Ninjask, Electrode, Jolteon, Aerodactyl, Mewtwo, Crobat, Sky form Shaymin, Swellow, Weavile, Darkrai.
  • Dugtrio, Alakazam, and Sceptile tie with Arceus.
• Sp.Atk: Deoxys Normal and Attack forms, Mewtwo, Kyogre, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Alakazam, Porygon-Z, Darkrai, Gengar, Espeon, Latios, Magnezone, Glaceon, Heatran, Exeggutor, Zapdos, Moltres, Gardevoir, Roserade, Magmortar, Azelf.
  • Origin form Giratina, Sky form Shaymin, Kadabra, Magneton, and Togekiss tie with Arceus.
• Sp.Def: Shuckle, Regice, Defense form Deoxys, Lugia, Ho-Oh, Registeel, Probopass, Mantine, Kyogre, Bastiodon, Blissey, Dusknoir, Umbreon, Dusclops, Latias, Uxie, Cresselia, Articuno, Milotic.
  • Tentacruel, Mr. Mime, Claydol, Kecleon, Mantyke, Palkia, and Another form Giratina tie with Arceus.

In closing: Comparisons with Arceus are not notable trivia, lest we add such pieces to a huge chunk of species. --Shiningpikablu252 22:23, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm glad to see somebody other than me make an effort to stop these annoying comparisons. Just because Arceus is called the "God of Pokémon" doesn't mean it's worth comparing stats. SharKing 16:12, 13 September 2008 (UTC)SharKing

BrightPowder!

Just traded a Wigglytuff from Pokémon Red version to Crystal version and it was holding a BrightPowder. This item is only supposed to be held by Pokémon with a catch rate of 3 (i.e. Legendary Birds and Mewtwo). I don't remember where I caught this Wigglytuff but it is Level 19, so it's most likely a Jigglypuff which was evolved into Wigglytuff immediately. hfc2X 02:53, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Locked

Since Jigglypuff was added to the fairy type it is likely Wigglytuff will be one as well but we're best locking the page till it is confirmed.--Ovidkid (talk) 21:54, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Can we assume that Wigglytuff is a Moon Rabbit in origin now?

-Evolves after using a Moon Stone

-Has rabbit ears

-Is a Fairy type and Moonlight and MoonBlast are Fairy moves

This may seem debatable for people that are critical on evidence, but I feel that they gave out allot of hints on this pokemon's inspiration that doesn't make the "Moon rabbit" base less obvious.

Wigglytough

Is the part explaining the naming of this Pokémon "Wigglytuff" rather than "Wigglytough" due to name limit really necessary? Mangaman13 (talk) 00:08, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

No it isn't, so now it's gone. Glik (talk) 00:34, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Japanese Name Origin

The part about fuusen and fukureru seems really flimsy. More so for the other two evolutions but here, too. My problem is that the names are Purin, Pukurin, and Pupurin. Purin is clearly the very commonly used transliteration of Pudding used commonly. There is no good reason to assume it has anything to do with the word for balloon. An argument could be made for fukureru indirectly by way of puku-puku which can be used to mean cute and chubby, pudgy, or (most relevantly) puffed up. --Vanya (talk) 13:36, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

There is no good reason to assume it has anything to do with the word for balloon.

You do know what Pokémon you're talking about right? The one that puffs up like a balloon? So it's just as valid.--ForceFire 14:29, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

I don't see how that is relevant to figuring out where the name came from since there is factually nothing in it to indicate balloons or inflating. There are simpler valid alternatives that make sense and help bring in the Balloon category name contextually.

fuusen + purin = pukurin? Makes no sense. There is no ku in fuusen in any pronunciation of the kanji. And it has no connection to purin which uses a short pu sound and not a long one. If they meant this then it would be Fuukurin and then you still have to explain where the ku comes from and fuku doesn't cut it because it's a completely different word.

fukureru + purin = pukurin? Closer, but doesn't pan out. If it was so then it would have been Fukurin. No reason to change it to pu from fu when pukupuku does the job more neatly.

pukupuku + purin = pukurin? There's your most likely origin. pukupuku means cute and chubby or puffed up. It combines well with the name and satisfies the idea of this being a more advanced form and even incorporates the balloon aspect and invokes the thought of it's cuteness and plump shape.

Fuusen and Fukureru simply do not have a concrete connection to the Japanese name and cause more issues than they solve.

And as for Igglybuff and Jigglypuff, there is literally nothing in either pupurin or purin to andicate anything even remotely like fuusen or fukureru.

Purin is a commonly used abbreviation for pudding. There is no need to conjecture further much like lizaado is simply lizard and sando is simply sand. Purin is simply Pudd'n.

There is also no merit in injecting fuusen and fukureru into pupurin when you have pupu as a much more likely candidate. And again it even has a connection to the balloon family name by way of meaning the sound of something inflating or poof.--Vanya (talk) 14:54, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

'Purin'=pudding may be the obvious connection, but it's not one that actually makes a lot of sense. (FWIW, it's also not an abbreviation or anything, like "pudd'n"; it's just straight up "pudding".)

Fukureru is easily justified just by letting the first character acquire a handakuten. Japanese does that kind of sound change plenty often when joining kanji; the sounds 'hu', 'bu', and 'pu' are very plainly related in Japanese, so fukureru really isn't a big stretch. (FWIW, our JP partners (i.e., native speakers) also like fukureru for the name origin.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:50, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

According to this purin is an abbreviation... プリン (n) (1) (abbr) (See プディング) (custard) pudding; source: http://nihongo.monash.edu/cgi-bin/wwwjdic?1C

Further, pudding is not an "obvious connection" it is the actual word used. There is no mystery there.

Also, I can't help but notice that fuusen isn't mentioned as a possible name origin in that link to the Japanese Wiki, nor is puripuri or kurikuri mentioned.

Fukureru is possible, like I mentioned above, I just think that pukupuku is far more likely as it is a simpler word that has a similar enough meaning and is easier for children to interpret. Plus it already has the handakuten. No matter how you look at it Fukureru is more of a stretch, not much more, but still more nonetheless.--Vanya (talk) 04:44, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Just because it's "the actual word used", that doesn't automatically make it make sense; there's not a shred of logic to that thinking. If Luvdisc was named "Fork", that wouldn't mean fork made any sense as its name. Can you give me any explanation of why pudding should make any sense, aside from "it is the actual word used"?

(As for being an abbreviation, I didn't know that, but that's still the Japanese. It doesn't really translate to an abbreviation of the English word.)

As for what the JP wiki says, I wasn't using it to say that its answers are the only right ones. The others you want to use it to dismiss are still possible (to varying degrees, at least). Tiddlywinks (talk) 05:11, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

It doesn't have to make sense. If Luvdisc was originally "Fork" it doesn't make that name not based on a common eating utensil. We're speculating about where the name came from, not whether or not it makes sense. They named Jigglypuff Pudding so the origin is most likely pudding and Wigglytuff was named something that builds on that.

How does an abbreviation of a word not translate into an abbreviation as well? Taking note of such differences is a sign of a good translation / localization. Since Japanese has a full transliteration of pudding, but an abbreviation is commonly used. Puddi'n is the closest equivalent I could think of.

I didn't mean to imply I was using it as evidence. I just found it notable. I only think that Fuusen should be removed since there is no real evidence of it being an influence. I think the others are fine. --Vanya (talk) 07:48, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Spelling and pronunciation, while important, aren't the only thing that needs to be looked at. The word's relevance to the Pokémon is also what needs to be looked at. That's why I said Fuusen is valid because the Wigglytuff (and its evolution) all have the ability to inflate or puff up like balloon. Saying Purin comes from pudding is like saying the "Corp" in Corphish comes from Corpse, it has absolutely nothing to do with the Pokémon. The name origin section is basically speculation, yes, but it at least has to make sense.--ForceFire 08:16, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Re:Pudding/Fork, Vanya, if you're thinking I think it doesn't belong...I don't think that. Originally, I just made a more or less throwaway comment that pudding doesn't actually make much sense for Jigglypuff. Just a comment. (I rather think that (if anything) it's just a pun that was one of the last things that came into the mix; "why not"/just because.)

The pudd'n stuff is probably getting too tangential, but...*shrug* First and foremost: be careful: the concept of "faithfulness" should not be your god; you should aim for good writing. (Also beware: I fully believe this, but I'm essentially talking out of my ass. =P I can't really claim authority. If nothing else, let it be food for thought.) Abbreviations are used because they're faster (or easier). Pudd'n carries a very different connotation in comparison to pudding than just an "abbreviation". That's the number one reason to eschew it. Number two: it's not really faster or easier, or at all a common "abbreviation" of pudding. You don't ever want to search too hard for a different word, forcing yourself into a bad choice when you already had a good one. Also, sometimes faster just becomes standard. If you hear a Japanese word for pudding these days, it's almost always プリン (AFAIK). There's no meaningful choice there, no meaningful "difference" to note. So "pudding" is still the better choice. (If you feel like continuing down this rabbit hole, perhaps we can just use PMs on the forums. If so, just let me know that's what you want and I'll make sure to check.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 09:01, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

@ForceFire> Pudding makes perfect sense to me in the context of many of the other naming conventions in the Japanese version and because it's telling you something about the pokemon. The Japanese idea of what pudding is closely matches Spanish Flan which is much more soft and bouncy like gelatin. Just google "Japanese Pudding". This tells you that Jigglypuff is soft and bouncy. It's also the simplest interpretation. While many pokemon have names that relate to their type names, there are also many that don't. The name Rizaado has nothing to do with flame. The name Fushigibana has nothing to do with seed. The name Nyoromo has nothing to do with tadpole. Even the localizers realized the implication of Purin when they named this pokemon Jigglypuff and it's evolution Wigglytuff. Igglybuff even mentions in it's descriptions that it has a soft body that bounces. However, if Jigglypuff was called Puurin then it would make sense that it was a mash up of Fuusen and Purin. But as is Purin is literally pudding and Fuusen / Fukureru require way too much finagling to justify.

@Tiddlywinks> Agreed, it is quite tangential. If I ever go on the forum I might just continue discussing this with you.--Vanya (talk) 18:22, 14 March 2016 (UTC)