User talk:TehPerson

Welcome

Welcome to Bulbapedia, TehPerson!

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Thank you, and have a good time editing here! --Force Fire 06:57, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Samurott

Wheres your sorce, Serebii dose not count as a sorce? Diamond Lanturn CodeName: 05308 17:00, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Move variations

I don't know if you intend to pick up editing these again, but please be aware that moves are only considered variations if they are within 5 PP of each other. Make sure any moves you're adding meet that criteria. Even if you disagree that that should be a criteria, it is something you would need to bring up in discussion in order to get changed. Thanks. =) Tiddlywinks (talk) 08:16, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

At this time, please stop working on content regarding move variants. The staff is currently undergoing discussion regarding possible redefinition of the criteria that determines what is and is not a move variant. Thanks, - Kogoro - Talk to me - 18:32, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Move power

Please stop creating move power navigation templates until you obtain Editorial Board approval. --Abcboy (talk) 06:39, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Okay fine. TehPerson (talk) 06:41, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Sandbox

While it's all right to have a sandbox (heck, I have one myself, please refrain from making a lot of edits to it. Your sandbox is still within userspace and is subject to the userspace policy, which generally stipulates three userspace edits per day provided you contribute at least four edits a day to mainspace. Exceptions can be made for pages being prepared for mainspace (as generally proposing new pages should be done via userspace), but the sandbox area usually does not qualify for exceptions. Use the preview button where possible when making sandbox edits instead of immediately saving, then [immediately changing them again]. Also, note that I have several different projects in the same single Sandbox page by using section headers like in a normal article; this is instead of using several different pages as you have. There's nothing wrong with multiple sandboxes as far as I'm aware, it's just an idea I'm passing along so you have a single place for everything you're working on. =)

These are merely suggestions to help you out, so I hope they are helpful! CycloneGU (talk) 07:19, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

I know I know. I used Show Preview to minimize edits, and tried to limit them to 3, but sometimes you gotta publish it to see how it affects another page. TehPerson (talk) 07:41, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, that's the difficulty with templates in userspace. You have to save it too see what happens. CycloneGU (talk) 17:01, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Recent block

I saw recently that you were blocked for being "insubordinate" in editing Ability variations, when you had only been told about move variations. Now, if you don't care about that little mess at all (or if perhaps you've already resolved it elsewhere), feel free to skip the rest of this.

Anyway, I kind of took it upon myself (presumptively, perhaps) to alert Kogoro about her mistake so that she might undo it sooner rather than later. I kept after it too, but I am now told that it's not my concern since I wasn't the one blocked. I understand that logic, but I also kind of think it's a bit of a cheat. IMHO it's not too much to ask for a simple acknowledgement of the mistake. (In short—and I know this may sound a little silly—I just want to know that Bulbapedia's not somehow okay with such a mistake.) So, I thought I'd ask you if you'd like to raise that issue on your own behalf? If you just wish to chime in where I've already tried asking, that's here.

If one way or another you just don't care about this, then I'm sorry for wasting your time. =) Tiddlywinks (talk) 23:54, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your concern. While I do agree with you, I feel that doing so would only result in more harm than help. Looking at your conversation, it is clear Kogoro does not wish to discuss the issue, and even more so to admitting a careless mistake. Although I have considered bringing it up, I feel that at best I'll get a passive-aggressive apology with a reprimand attached.

Anyways, thank you for standing up for what's right. Much appreciated! TehPerson (talk) 00:10, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Templates

Next time you create a template, please either create it in your userspace and tag with a {{mainspace}} tag or ask a staff member, preferably an Editorial Board member, if it is needed. I will be moving your MovePower template to your userspace. Thank you for your time, and sorry for any inconveniences. Berrenta (talk) 03:04, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Again, templates must be made in the userspace and then be approved by the Editorial Board before put in the mainspace. glik^glak 02:11, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Well, you're welcome anyways. The new list at least exist in the history for future reference :) TehPerson (talk) 02:20, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

The Preview Button

Instead of editing a page several times in a row, try using the preview button to make sure your edit looks the way you want it to. It's right next to the Save Page button. Please try it out, so as not to clog up the Recent Changes. Also, if you want to edit multiple sections of the page, make sure that you click "edit this page" at the top of the page rather than editing it by section. Thanks! --ChE clarinetist (talk) 16:48, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

New pages/notability

You've made a few new pages recently, and I'd like to inform you, as a rule, new pages should be made in the userspace first and then brought to staff's attention for mainspacing. (This is mainly done by using the {{mainspace}} tag, but if you want to ask an appropriate staff member about a page directly, you can also do that.) The two pages you made for Battle Maison info have turned out alright and we've more or less let them slide, but your latest page is a perfect example of why that rule exists and the "risk" when it's ignored.

Regarding Battle Maison Trainer quotes, you should understand that we don't care about any and all quotes here, we only care about major, notable characters, not a bunch of random Trainers. I've moved your page to your userspace for now. Thanks for understanding Tiddlywinks (talk) 00:58, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Major changes

When you're adding something entirely new, like the Maison/etc Pokemon pages you created, it's fine if you want to try to present the information in a new/unique format. However, any major change to an existing format (particularly templates, or any format that touches multiple pages) should always be discussed first. And something like your edit to Template:SubwayPartner was absolutely a major change. Please try to keep this in mind in the future. Tiddlywinks (talk) 06:32, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Apologies for the trouble. Though keeping things in mind... I post a creative change to old articles that most people don't read anymore. Nobody reads them, idea gets buried. But I go ahead and post it, get a slap on the wrist, but the content still stays because everyone knows it doesn't make sense to revert it. Again, sorry for stress, but you have to admit that the old format wasn't intended for entire team rosters. TehPerson (talk) 07:57, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

If you need a response to something, talk to a staff member.

Please don't assume you're always justified (or always will be). A couple of your pages stayed, sure. The Battle Maison Trainer quotes absolutely did not, though. And, personally, I don't think a straight substitution of the SubwayPartner template was a great solution. (In short, pretty much: that's a very nonstandard format to see on character pages, so (IMO) it doesn't belong there the same way the party format did. I'll try to address it soon-ish.) You're not infallible. And you won't be. That's pretty impossible for most people. (I absolutely count myself among that number, too.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 08:31, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Conditions/Contest moves

Hi! Tables with lots of coding should be implemented with templates to save space. Please don't add huge, hard-coded tables—especially if you were only doing that because you couldn't easily create a template for it yourself.

Also, FYI there's actually a sort of solution already in the works (it may change to some degree before it's implemented). Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:11, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

This is kind of related, so I'll put it here instead of making a new section...

Can you do me a favor and not update more pages like you did List of Battle Maison Pokémon to add the colors and stuff? At that point, a template absolutely becomes preferable. I've made one already and will see about it getting mainspaced.

If there are any other particularly needful improvements, it might be best to think of them now. (I don't mean that you should implement them, hard-coded, on a whole table, though.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 16:28, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Battle Frontier (Generation III)

Dude, can you make a list with the Pokémon on the Hoenn's Battle Frontier check this list:

http://upcarchive.playker.info/0/upokecenter/content/pokemon-emerald-battle-frontier-in-depth.html

Funny, in Gen VI is same data of the Gen V, in a Pokémon like Venusaur, 1st class, Pokémon, no Banette or Crawdaunt. --HoopsterJohn (talk) 04:05, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Website is dead and all information regarding RS Battle Tower Pokémon and Trainers is gone. https://web.archive.org/web/20170804102059/http://upcarchive.playker.info/0/upokecenter/content/pokemon-emerald-battle-frontier-in-depth.html

Someone should have added missing info on RS and E Battle Tower/Frontier teams sooner.Blob55 (talk) 17:50, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

List of Battle Maison Trainers

Out of curiosity, can you tell me how you got the information for the Battle Maison Trainers? I've been poring over the page for a bit, and some of the Trainers seem fairly weird to me. Like Manuel, with those special additions in addition to the type groups (why aren't Flygon/Empoleon/Floatzel part of some group?). And especially Azure and Claus/etc, with Regirock/Lati@s coming from sets 1 and 2 and the rest of the team from set 4, when all the other teams have uniform set possibilities for their whole team. (Perhaps... Are Flygon/Empoleon/Floatzel and Regirock and Lati@s maybe randomly inserted into the last (or some single) slot on the Trainer's team or something? I.e., is it possible for Manuel to have both Flygon and Empoleon on his team, or Flygon and Empoleon and Floatzel?)

Also, what in the world is "Water, Grass and Fire old" for the Tier 2 Super Chefs? Tiddlywinks (talk) 04:16, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Oh yeah, thanks for pointing out the ambiguities. I wasn't sure if there was a better way to represent the Trainer's Pokemon data.

Basically the Pokemon Groups represents all the Pokemon that can possibly be used by a Trainer. All the algorithm does is select n Pokemon from that roster at random, n being the required number of Pokemon for a challenge. The Battle Chatelaines have fixed teams because their rosters only contain n Pokemon - the order therefore can still be different.

Basically, all the roster for an Ace Trainer is that of a generic team plus Lati@s (depending on the Ace Trainer's gender). That's why you sometimes see Lati@s if you battle Ace Trainers. Artist Azure is like that but with Regirock (sets 1 and 2) and a Rock/Steel/Ground roster. Though meeting said Regirock is still pretty rare. I've only encountered the non-Veteran's Regirock once. Also, "old" means "Gen (I-V)". Tier-2 chefs don't use Kalos Pokemon. A correction I keep forgetting to make :\

Not really sure why low-tier Skaters use Flygon/Empoleon/Floatzel. I've personally encountered that as well. All I notice is that they all know Aqua Jet or Quick Attack, so maybe it's a priority thing- since Skaters are into speed.

And to answer why the legendaries only come from set 1 and 2, my best answer is that because the way Sets are treated for Legendaries is not the same as other Pokemon. For most Pokemon, you see their set 1 versions at lower-streak battles and they gradually shift towards set 4. Legendaries all start appearing after battle 40, when Pokemon have already been using Set 4 for a while. Notice that all tier-VI Trainers use Set 4 Pokemon for non-Legendaries, but the sets for Legendaries still vary. I guess it was just an arbitrary decision to have Sets 1 and 2 made available for non-Veterans.

Let me know if you have any ideas on how to better represent the data. TehPerson (talk) 05:00, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

So does this all just come purely from observation/massive "trial and error" at the Battle Maison and Battle Institute? (That's quite a feat, if so.) I'll have to think for a while about what you've said and what is (or should be) on the pages. Tiddlywinks (talk) 05:32, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

No, I believe this was datamined from the game by Smogon- like how everyone else gets this information. Pretty much get raw data with a list of Trainers and a list of their Pokemon, and it's up to us to sort what sort of team is what. The guys at Smogon thought it would be a good idea to have the information consolidated here, where it can be viewed neatly. TehPerson (talk) 05:56, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Can you link me where that data was released or whatever? Looking at it fresh, in a more raw or basic format, might help me get some ideas or understand some things better. Tiddlywinks (talk) 06:05, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

List of Trainers

List of Pokemon

Most lists aren't actually this nice looking. For the Battle Subway, a list of Trainers' Pokemon would be given by the Pokemon's Subway-specific id, and then cross-referenced from there. The seemingly-arbitrary ID number for the Pokemon actually play a role determining the tier, set, etc, but low-level detail like that I thought could be excluded here. TehPerson (talk) 06:13, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

I like low-level detail. =3 That low-level detail, are you talking about other pages at that site? If so, I think I mostly found them through Google.

I was kind of fearing that's what the data looked like raw... You may be mostly right with the pages for Maison data (and others) you created, but I'm gonna mull over it all for myself some more anyway. ;) Tiddlywinks (talk) 06:25, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

• Dude, you're awesome a give me a favor can you make me a list of the Battle Maison trainer in my native language Spanish, i want know the name in the Spanish version, please, if you can. --HoopsterJohn (talk) 20:50, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

• Thank you very much dude, you're the best, these name are the same in XY and ORAS unlike in English language have different one between these games. --HoopsterJohn (talk) 21:26, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

FYI, going from the links you gave above, I caught some errors on the Maison Trainer/Pokemon pages you made. (If I identify a Trainer below, any other Trainers that used the same roster also had the same mistake.)

• Set2 Porygon2 is not in the Hail group.
• Delphox/Greninja/Golurk are never in the Psychic/Dark/Ghost groups (respectively).
• Lucetta is not Set 4 Water+Ice, she's Set 4 Dark+Fairy+Normal.
• Bight also uses Ground Pokemon.
• Anastasia only uses Group C/D Psychic types.

I noticed you creating User:TehPerson/List of battle area Trainers (Generation VI)/1, so I thought it would be best to let you know so you could correct any errors you have. I did see that on that page you apparently didn't include Greninja in the Poison/Dark table, though you did include it in the Dark table on List of Battle Maison Trainers, so I don't know if they're more or less randomly introduced errors or what, though. Tiddlywinks (talk) 04:05, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Oh, thanks for catching those errors! Sometimes my speadsheet bugs up a bit on me :\ TehPerson (talk) 04:19, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

I've come to realize that categorizing the Pokemon isn't the best way to represent Trainer teams. Might as well just do a table for each. TehPerson (talk) 07:58, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

I'm just a bit torn about that. Between the two options, I kind of barely favor your new approach.

The original approach requires a lot of user action to figure out what they want to know. Compared to the new approach, the only thing it's especially useful for is if people want to know the whole list to remix the Trainers' rosters for a game hack. The problem with the new approach, though, is that it can be incredibly repetitive. I mean, you've got tables for Groups A/B and C/D, but then also B/C which overlaps half of each of those, and then type groups which overlap again... The complete straightforwardness of it is the narrowest deciding factor for me. Tiddlywinks (talk) 14:58, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Talk page responses

Please try to keep talk page discussions in one place. If someone replies to your talk page, respond there first, not on their talk page. If you feel they're not noticing after a while, then you can post something on their talk page (a link back to your talk page might be best, just so, again, the whole conversation remains in one place), but we can't have two sides of a conversation playing out on two separate talk pages like is developing above... That's just ridiculous. Please try to keep it where it started.

Thanks. Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:36, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Oh okay, mods in different wikis, sonetimes even in the same wiki, use different conventions. Did not know if any standards exist here. TehPerson (talk) 21:47, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Battle Masion Trainer classes

There are probably a handful of reasons that adding battle area Trainers to the Trainer class pages probably isn't a good idea, but the simplest way to put it is that what you're adding is huge, complicated, and sort of pointless. If you really want to add them, it can be discussed, but in the meantime, please do not keep adding this sort of thing to the TC pages. Thanks. Tiddlywinks (talk) 08:53, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Spanish Pokémon Sun and Moon game text,

Hi, man, please can you bring me in txt archive the game text from Pokémon Sun and Moon in spanish language, it's because i want to find a specific name in Alola, can you do it? please. --HoopsterJohn (talk) 02:32, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

https://projectpokemon.org/research/sunmoon/gametext.txt this but in spanish language. --HoopsterJohn (talk) 04:18, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Battle Royal

Hey TehPerson! I've noticed the new Battle Royal pages you've been working on recently. Is there any reason why it's not in a table format like List of Battle Maison Pokémon you also helped to make? Just wondering because I think the table format is much nicer (and keep up the good work) :) --Wowy_(토크) 07:13, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

I figured I'll just stick with the templates we already have to keep it practical. TehPerson (talk) 05:20, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Formatting

I must say, I'm very impressed by your extensive lists of Pokémon in various battle facilities. However, I've also noticed something you've been doing wrong: formatting. You use the Generation VI formatting on moves and items that had had their names written a different way to save character space before that. For example, Dynamic Punch as DynamicPunch, Never-Melt Ice as NeverMeltIce, and so forth. However, these facilities you're making Pokémon lists out of were in games BEFORE this happened, and as such, are written incorrectly for the games they were in. Just wanted to point that put for you. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 05:06, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Oh, that actually is done on purpose since the spreadsheet I'm using only has one type of spelling. I don't manually enter in all these values- it's mostly automated. If you want to help with changing the spelling back, that would be appreciated- but I don't have a complete list of all moves/items that had spelling changes. TehPerson (talk) 05:19, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

For moves, the list of changed names can be found here. As for items... Well, I don't think there are too many of them. TwistedSpoon, NeverMeltIce... The item pages do note if the name of the item has ever been altered. I'll probably get around to helping with fixing this at some point, but I'm not sure when I'll have the time to do it. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 12:35, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Pokemon with Hidden Abilities

When we have two other pages already for List of Pokémon with released Hidden Abilities (Generation V) and List of Pokémon with released Hidden Abilities (Generation VI), please follow that convention as exactly as possible. Either you should have created the Gen VII page at "List of Pokémon with released Hidden Abilities (Generation VII)" in the first place, or when you went to edit the Ability page and saw the existing/uncreated Gen VII link and noticed yours was different, you should have moved your page to the right name.

Additionally, the order you used on your page has, for instance, Cleffa in the Johto section, whereas in the previous generations' pages, Cleffa is with Clefairy in the Kanto section.

Please try to keep these sorts of things in mind in the future. Thanks. Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:54, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

USUM Quotes

Hi. I just wanted to ask if you're doing the quotes and saving them in each articles one by one? I have actually completed all the quotes for every named NPCs in USUM. Because I'm left with Molayne before I saved everything. Also, the quotes are to be done in storyline order and not in location order. Finally, all answer quotes are to be done with the Options of answers bolded and not by asterisk. Thanks. — Ruixiang95 21:40, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Storyline order would make way more sense for quotes. As for the other questions, I just referred to other articles to see what the current conventions are. TehPerson (talk) 21:44, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Battle Frontier

You have a history of making major changes without approval. I'm going to start here by generally reiterating that if you want to make any major change, please ask someone on staff about it.

As far as the Battle Frontier pages go, splitting pages are decisions to be made by the Editorial Board. You must get approval from staff before splitting pages, you cannot just do it when you think you're ready. For the Gen III one, you may have thought you had permission after SnorlaxMonster's response to you on the talk page (and I'm not sure at the moment what he necessarily intended), but as far as I can tell you did not have even a hint at permission to split the Gen IV page.

Additionally, when you have userpages mocking up a page for the mainspace, do not just copy that code and edit it into the mainspace article. If there's a userpage, it should be moved into the mainspace with the wiki's move function. If you're not able to do this, then ask a staff member for help. Tiddlywinks (talk) 12:34, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

Removing class links

While I greatly appreciate you uploading us VS models from the Let's Go games, while adding them to pages, please stop removing class links from Pokémon Trainers and Gym Leaders. Without those, their Trainer class links will wind up as redirect links. Thank you. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 19:51, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Quotes

When adding quotes, instead of leaving them incomplete, please use a text dump and/or YouTube videos to add all of them at once instead of in bits. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 20:49, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

If you'd like to help, that would be much appreciated. But I do not have the text dump and cannot find them. Nor do I have my Switch with me at the time. In short, "I would if I could, but I can't so I shan't." TehPerson (talk) 22:20, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Eggs

What was the point of this edit? It seems to just make a ton more white space at first glance, but I think you were trying to separate them somehow but I can't tell how. However, in all honestly that list needs a serious overhaul its a mess. There should be a way to organize the information for what Pokémon are in what egg, and when they were available in that type of egg. A list of currently and previously doesn't help anybody since someone could have eggs from 2017 still. Not sure if you were trying to separate them somehow by availability, but there has to be a better way to organize it. Lady Ariel 00:00, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

I noticed the previous iteration had it separated by generation, and I forgot to do half of that when I updated the list in a slight rush, looking back. So half the cells had a break every 15, and the other had a break between generations, and it was inconsistent. If you want, I can just have it broken up so that there's a line break every X entries. TehPerson (talk) 00:10, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

I think in general the entire table should be reformatted to list the dates, the Pokémon, and egg distance they are in. And like the Field Research page, probably use a gray background for ones that are current. Currently the entire section makes little sense as to what was in the eggs at any given time. Lady Ariel 00:28, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

I agree on that too, since egg lists are constantly being updated like Raids. However, I currently don't have the entire history of eggs on hand, so it'll be quite a task for me do myself. I also want to include mention on possible Stardust/Candy yields from hatching each egg, but keep getting inconsistent information from source to source. TehPerson (talk) 00:39, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

If you can actually get the entire history of Eggs, I'd be very interested to know it. I'm really not a fan of having "current" and "old" in the same table for Eggs anyway. I think all current hatchables should have their own table (and pure minisprites isn't my favorite either), and old hatches should be dealt with in some separate fashion. Knowing the entire history would help know what kind of format could best show all necessary information. Tiddlywinks (talk) 00:46, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

I think the candy and Stardust from each hatched egg is pretty dependent on how strong the Pokémon is when it hatches. Quite a bit of the history of the egg hatches is mentioned on the page, in a very messy format. The others are pretty well documented by users and other sites. As for the minisprites, I think using the images of them from Pokémon GO would be a much better alternative. Even if we left some information as blank for now, that would signal for other users to help contribute what they can. Lady Ariel 01:04, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

Serebii has a page that documents the history of eggs throughout updates, but it's kinda sloppy and appears to include eggs that may no longer be available in its tables for newer updates. I've been reading sources that Candy given depends on the amount of Stardust, and Power Up level of hatched Pokémon now depend strictly on the Trainer's level at the time of receiving eggs. Niantic updates the game pretty fast, so it's hard to keep track of which sources are still relevant. TehPerson (talk) 01:09, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

From what I have been told, [1] this is one of the better sites to check for information. I don't think they have the old hatches documented anywhere on their site, but the Reddit posts for them likely have them somewhere. Lady Ariel 01:18, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

Serebii is at least still 90% accurate and more organized with legacy information. I can get started on a spreadsheet using Serebii's information, then corroborate it with that from /r/TheSilphRoad. As far as I see so far, Serebii's tables include all the eggs, but also includes eggs that shouldn't be there. TehPerson (talk) 01:22, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

I think that will work. Normally we don't like using Serebii's information, but as long as we can verify it with other source(s) then its usually fine. Lady Ariel 01:26, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

If there are other sources, use those. Do not steal from Serebii. Tiddlywinks (talk) 03:04, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

Trust but verify. TehPerson (talk) 03:19, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

That sounds too glib for me to be sure you understand. Are you going to use any information that we would only find on Serebii? Tiddlywinks (talk) 03:31, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

I already see too many inconsistencies in the most recent page to trust that. My intention is to compare the results to update notices on SilphRoad and other GO-related sources. TehPerson (talk) 03:49, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

By the way, I don't know if you took my initial comment as purely rhetorical...but I meant just what I said. If you have gathered info on all Egg "sets", I would appreciate if you would lay that out. I do not really think that just noting species as previously available with no distinctions is the best way. Tiddlywinks (talk) 07:04, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

The info I have isn't complete. If I were to let's say, add a column to the table noting dates of availability, it would only be 40% complete. TehPerson (talk) 15:00, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Let me be even more explicit. When I say I'm interested in the data...honestly, I'm not looking for the final product that you synthesize from that data. To try to make up an example, if Bulbasaur was in 2k Eggs in January and February, but Charmander was in 2k Eggs in January but in 5k in February, if your final product would say "Jan-Feb" for Bulbasaur, it would be hard to tease out that that spans two different sets of Eggs (or to put it another way, that Bulbasaur's change in March was a third set, not just a second).

So, what I would like to know is, in short, every full Egg set and their dates. That way I can examine it and try to think about what I think might make a good solution—whether whatever you may try is okay or whether there may be a better option. Tiddlywinks (talk) 15:50, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Can I get an explicit acknowledgement of whether you intend to display the full data you're gathering, like I mentioned above? (I just don't want to wait for weeks only to ask then and find out you moved on long ago.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:06, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Final product may look like what it already does on the List of Eggs page, just more complete. (eg 2 Km available jun to nov 2016, etc) Probably going to chip away at it as time goes by, since Egg data being as dynamic as it is, isn't as easy to gather all at once. TehPerson (talk) 01:25, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

I guess it's been a while, so I'd just like to poke you again and ask if you're still working on the data. Tiddlywinks (talk) 20:09, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Since this^ was easy to miss... Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:55, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Templates, again

You've been told a couple times above to make templates in your userspace first and ask for approval. Please respect this request. If you make us keep cleaning up templates we don't want, you may face a block for insubordination. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:56, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

k TehPerson (talk) 21:50, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

GO availability

I'd like to suggest a bit of a project regarding GO to you. I previously wanted to add a GO availability on species pages—things like "nestable", "hatchable only", "raids only", "research only" (and that's not exhaustive). However, this idea was not supported. A part of me has thought of making a dedicated page listing this sort of availability for all species, but I haven't had the time. Would you be interested in making a userpage? Tiddlywinks (talk) 20:09, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Oh, I'm actually working on one right now. Currently still on a spreadsheet, but for starters, would include the initial release date and a "notes" column denoting stuff like regional exclusivity, egg only, etc. TehPerson (talk) 20:40, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

I made a preliminary version here. Feel free to play around with it, fill in any holes, etc. As for the Egg data, I was only able to get a limited amount using web archives, so at the moment, I'm going to focus on tasks I know can be finished short term. I can still share the spreadsheet I have, but it's messy and incomplete at best. TehPerson (talk) 22:04, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Pokémon Go

I responded to your split proposal at Talk:Pokémon GO#Page Splitting. Since you started that discussion in February and no one else has commented, I would say be BOLD and just make the split yourself mainspace your draft pages as soon as you feel comfortable doing so. Qzekrom (talk) 04:26, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Pages

Can you let me do the rest? Seabiscuit2020 (talk) 23:32, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

G-Max base moves

For signature G-Max Moves, should it be noted which base moves the Pokémon knowing the G-Max Move cannot learn and thus never legitimately use as base moves? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 16:31, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

I guess if you want to it would be helpful to have that info on there, but for now I'm just copy-pasting the info from the Max Moves' pages just so the page has some degree of completion. TehPerson (talk) 16:35, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Once you've done that, can you help with adding the notifications? Also, I'm looking forward to you uploading more VS models from Sword and Shield. Especially the Breeder ones. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 16:38, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Dens

Can you explain where the information about the Pokemon in the dens comes from, as well as how the mechanics like rates and common/rare were found or where they were explained? Some of it is far from clear to me just based on the tables you've added to Dappled Grove. Tiddlywinks (talk) 20:45, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Here. The rate is basically the % of encountering each species given a specific difficulty level (difficulty rates vary depending on Gym badges). It might not sound so intuitive at first to you, but for people who've spent hours hunting Max Raids, the rates are very self explanatory. The rare dens have a ~10% chance of spawning each time-you can test this with the soft-reset trick with Wishing Pieces. Let me know if you want to help out with doing the rest. TehPerson (talk) 22:00, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

The problem is, most of our users really aren't "people who've spent hours hunting Max Raids". =P

I'll try to look over it and figure out how we can be more user-friendly here. One quick question: are the "rare" raids perhaps the special ones with the purple beam of light? Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:42, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

Yes. To be analogous, you can treat the "★★★" dividers the same as you would for the weather conditions shown in the other encounter tables on the same page. The den, depending on your number of badges, will:

1. Pick a common (red light, red background) or rare (purple light, yellow background) pool

2. Pick a difficulty (1 to 5 stars) - distribution greatly varies depending on # of badges; and there's currently no complete knowledge of what the rates are

3. Then use those encounter % values to pick a species

Imo you probably won't be able to find a more user-friendly way of displaying this unless it's just adding an explanation to the top. Serebii's way of displaying rates makes no intuitive sense (it looks like a Drifloon has a 20% chance of being 2-star and a 30% chance of being 3-star; in reality it's the other way around- 2-star has 20% chance of Drifloon and 3-star has 30% chance...)

And to further condense the information, you may notice a lot of redundant listings (e.g. a "Sword-exclusive" Onix at 20% and a "Shield-exclusive" Onix at 20% on the same table); that can ofc be done away with later, but I want to get the basic info on there first. TehPerson (talk) 02:57, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

The data you've added doesn't seem to line up with the dumped data (Sword, Shield), at least in the couple of cases I checked.

For example, on Dappled Grove, you listed Budew as appearing in 35% of 1★ Raids, where it is between levels 15-20. In the dumped data, while all 4 of the Budew raids occur for 35% of 1★ Raids at their respective Dens, it instead appears between level 25-30. In fact, the dumped data doesn't include any raids for level 15-20.

Of course, this doesn't align with my own in-game experience. For example, I have a Sizzlipede that I caught in a rare raid (purple pillar) in the Rolling Fields at Level 17 in Pokémon Shield, but the dumped data indicates that all Sizzlipede are level 25-30. (It's also worth noting that your list of Dens on the Rolling Fields page doesn't include Sizzlipede in any Max Raid Battle.)

So the levels in the dumped data appear to be incorrect. Do you know if they're just a case of being off by a constant, or are they just not used at all? --SnorlaxMonster 03:44, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

That data was imo hard to decipher and it took me a while to understand it before I was able to parse it properly. Basically:

• Ignore the "1-star, 2-star" in front of each Pokemon's name. That's also where they derived the level. The actual star is the "1-star desired, etc" fields. Good chance these errors are there because of the way the dataminers parsed and deciphered the raw data. It also implies the TR rewards for each Raid, regardless of difficulty is the same, even though that's empirically false.
• Personal experience also tells me (outside of Wild Area News) level is dictated by difficulty. There's also the fact that newer players may see their levels scaled down from higher difficulty raids, but I know nothing of the mechanics regarding that.
• Can't say much about the Sizzlipede from Rolling Fields, other than the fact that Sizzlipede can only come from Fire-type pools. Are you able to re-verify which Den in Rolling Fields has Fire-types?

TehPerson (talk) 17:02, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

I really haven't done this much, but there appear to be updates that happen to have level 17 Sizzlipede, so that could be where it came from. I noticed Pokewiki has something others don't, but I don't really know what that is. Levels per stars seems to make sense. Also, SnorlaxMonster's userpages appear to be buggy (see Ditto rates). Not really into it (yet), but is it possible that the levels just upgrade once you defeat Eternatus, much like regular encounter Pokémon do? Nescientist (talk) 17:09, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Oh right! I totally forgot that Wild Area News allows Sizzlipede to spawn in all Dens for Shield. I've been meaning to make similar rate tables for the various Wild Area News events later on. However, Wild Area News spawns always have the red light, not purple... so I'm not sure if that quite addresses SnorlaxMonster's issue. TehPerson (talk) 17:37, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Hmm, maybe I'm misremembering the purple pillar for Sizzlipede. It's easy for me to confirm where it was caught and what level it was caught at, but the type of pillar that it came from was purely from memory.

Regarding the Star ratings, that it's solely based on the "Desired" values is basically what I figured. And yes, my experience is also that levels depend on the star rating of the raid.

Looking at the Ditto rates in my tables, it looks like it's just a case where the code I used to generate those tables assumed that there weren't any cases of two different entries for a raid at the same Den with the same name (i.e. including the "X-Star" part of the raid name). In the actual source data, the rates do sum to 100%.

For level scaling, my guess would simply be that players who don't have all of the Badges would have a high-level Raid Boss scaled down to their maximum catchable level. --SnorlaxMonster 15:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

It does seem your table looks more compact than the ones I put on the mainspaces. I think if level is the only issue, then it can just be excluded, and mention on the Max Raid Battle page that Stars determine level- after all, understanding how Stars translate to level would just make listing levels redundant. The only exception would be ofc the Wild Area News raids, which have their own fixed levels. TehPerson (talk) 17:01, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps my initial request was unclear, but I've read the Smogon link now and it didn't answer my questions at all.

I was hoping to know:

1. How/Where you got the information about which Pokemon are in which dens
2. How/Where you got the information about how the raids are generated (star level, rates for possible occupants, etc)

Generally, I'd appreciate if you could be as specific as possible. That particularly includes links (like not just giving me the start of another thread where the relevant post may be I-have-no-idea-where in dozens upon dozens of pages, please =P ). Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:37, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

I see you were active somewhat. Can you please answer? If there's no answer, we have to doubt the data. Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:44, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

I have it on one of my spreadsheets, and I think it's from here, which cites a couple sources that seem to corroborate each other. (One's in Japanese so I don't know if it's circular reporting.) There was another source on the same subreddit linked here (I can't find the original thread with the fancy, corresponding spreadsheet). IIRC the last source labels the Dens in a different order, but when cross-referenced they all match - for these conventions I deferred to Serebii's because that's the one sourced the most right now. The fact that at least 2 sources using 2 different naming conventions but resulting in the same data indicates that the sources at least aren't circularly confirmed. (And from personal experience, the Dens all seem to match (From memory, I can personally confirm all the ones in Bridge Field and the ones with GMax Spawns). But if you need to trial-and-error all of them with Wishing Pieces before mainspacing, that's fine too, but I'm 90+% sure you won't get anything different. Though if you do want to work on that first, I may need to rewrite the script to remove the redundant listings anyways. TehPerson (talk) 01:14, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

I'm going to look through those links (a little quicker this time), but first things first: just don't, ever, take anything at all from Serebii. Just nothing. Make up something sensible instead. (I kinda sorta don't even look at Serebii myself.) The short version is, we do not at all want to have any room to be accused of taking anything at all from Serebii.

Just for now, from the briefest check of the links...I would generally advise that the game8.co link is probably also not something we should just take from. In short: if it's not a crowd-sourced kind of site (roughly speaking, by users for users), you should probably ask permission before using their info (without adding a citation, anyway; there are certainly places where we cite other sites for detailed mechanics). Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:21, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

(resetting indent)OK... The Reddit page says the user took everything from Serebii and that "wiki" (which doesn't look like an actual wiki as far as I can tell). Taking info from Serebii means that's right out. Putting that aside for a moment or two...

I tried looking again at the raid data from Kaphotics. I looked for a Gigantamax Pokemon and found Charizard's nest, and found that on Lake of Outrage. I think I can get where the "Rare" den list comes from. But I'm quite mystified about the "Common" list. Can you please explain to me how you got the data for the "common" list for Lake of Outrage#Den C? Tiddlywinks (talk) 20:06, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Not sure if this fully answers the question, but basically a "Common" raid is anything with the red light. If it's anything from the Wild Area News pool, which is always red, 90%+ chance it's from News and not the native Den. As for getting the "common" list, it's the exact same way I got the rare one. I copied the entire pastebin file onto a spreadsheet, used some scripts/formulas, and parsed them into BP templates. For both the Shield and Sword files, Nest 1 - 42 are all common and 43+ are all rare (in the order which they appear on the pastebin). And if you want to sample multiple raids to make sure it's the right pool (since many pools share a few Pokemon in common), you can use that clock reset trick to reroll a different Pokemon (which only works if you use a Wishing Piece, otherwise the raid may just despawn). TehPerson (talk) 21:03, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Are you saying that each Nest ID in Kaphotics' data does not correspond to exactly 1 den?

I noticed that there are 100 dens and 93 Nest IDs, but I wasn't sure what to think besides go crazy. But if some of those Nest IDs are common lists and some rare—and some of the dens use the same list for one thing or another—then it could make sense. (Theoretically, I suppose one Nest ID could be the common set for one den and rare for another...)

The "desired" part under the selection probabilities has always made me think there's something particularly special about it, and that there must be a more plain "non-desired" mechanic or something, but if I just ignore the word "desired" and treat the selection probabilities like simple pieces of the puzzle for an encounter table (that may apply to "common" or "rare" selections...unrelated to anything directly in Kaphotics' file, at least), it probably can be applied to all the Wild Area dens.

...The problem remains that we can't use all the data built off of Serebii's data. I'm going to attempt to correlate Kaphotic's data from the ground up. For the meantime, the raid data will have to be removed. Tiddlywinks (talk) 22:10, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

PoGo information

I deleted the pages you tagged, but in case we decide to expand our Go information (which we should), I may want to bring some of those back, or at least tag you in to assist the project. The information looked good. -- MAGNEDETH 03:57, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Wyndon Stadium split

I'm grateful that you split the Wyndon Stadium article. It was in need of that. But I would also like to mention that I had already brought this split idea up with Force Fire, who was waiting for a staff decision before doing it, and I was waiting for his reply on the matter. Did you get a permission to do the split? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 07:34, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

No, but considering I was the one who originally created that article, lack of foresight on my part was the reason why it was so huge in the first place. I pretty much figured common sense would warrant splitting it rather than go through the administrative bottleneck. But if it's really that big of a deal, then in hindsight, it would have made more sense had I just made it a split from the start. TehPerson (talk) 14:06, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Contest data list

Hey, I was hoping maybe you would like to have a look at Talk:List of moves? I noticed that some years ago, you did some work related to contests. It seems like there used to be a dedicated userpage of yours (User:TehPerson/List of Contest moves) that was this list? Is that data correct ORAS data? Why was that userpage deleted? (Is there something that's better?) If you could help, I guess that would.. help. Thanks. Nescientist (talk) 20:05, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Was simply not needed anymore. Before, there was absolutely no list of moves by their contest effects in ORAS. Now the individual condition pages (e.g. see here) have pretty organized sections on relevant moves grouped by their contest effects. TehPerson (talk) 21:04, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Interesting, I didn't know.

Well, I guess I'm gonna use those, then. Those and maybe what Jamming has.

Anyway, by that logic, wouldn't List of moves be unneeded because moves are listed at type pages, or even at move category pages?

I'm actually considering basically recreating your userpage, and whether I want to propose its mainspacing. Nescientist (talk) 21:39, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Yeah okay. Feel free to move the template I made to your userpage first, since it's so improperly named, as it's one of the first userspace templates I made, and I won't be working on it anyways. (I'd recommend the name User:Nescientist/movelist/contest/6). TehPerson (talk) 23:21, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Creating this page I'm now pretty confident I will do, but still very unsure about mainspacing. However, I guess I won't be using your proposed name, since I imagine the page would include all generations; probably User:Nescientist/Movedata or a subpage thereof.

Thanks for telling me about the template, and letting me usurp it. I'm not sure how heavily I'd need to edit it, but I might (or might not) move it in the following days. I'm gonna suggest mainspacing the final template if and only if I'll also do so for the main page, if that's alright. (If you have a preference, still feel free to share it.) Nescientist (talk) 17:10, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

Sinistea

Can I ask where you got the info that Sinistea can't hatch in Antique form? Tiddlywinks (talk) 03:05, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Common knowledge I guess? Though I can't datamine the game, so I won't be able to prove it per se. But people have reported in various places that Antique breeds into Phony, but zero accounts of Antique breeding into Antique, or Phony breeding into Antique (unless you can direct me to one). TehPerson (talk) 14:47, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

If you're just taking it from other people, and if it's something like that that's far from a trivial check to figure out if it's correct, you should probably add a citation to somewhere so that claims can be checked (like, did someone just check a couple dozen Eggs and say, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!1). Tiddlywinks (talk) 05:07, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

So...will you do me a favor and add a citation to someplace? We really can't claim something so absolute without being able to point to something that can be checked. (And you're the one who'll have some idea where you've seen good evidence.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 06:44, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Honestly, this is so trivial I'd rather you just edit that information out than me do the impossible of proving a negative. (I can't decode the source code, and I'm not going to hatch 10 boxes of Eggs, sorry). Contrary to perception, finding an Antique form isn't that hard, so if anyone was able to breed one, then it would already be common knowledge. TehPerson (talk) 07:50, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I thought I was clear enough that I wasn't expecting "proof". (Guess not.)

Just go wherever you saw someone give an account of hatching lots and link to that. Something at least more testable than unadorned "fact". Tiddlywinks (talk) 14:25, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Here is my ridiculously generous offer I just posted on /r/pokemontrades to trade a Melmetal (currently the most sought after for Casual Trades) for a hatched Antique Form. It is the biggest online community to negotiate trades - and if this can't prove the point, then that means you're solely looking for datamining. If a hatched Antique Form were legal, this trade would be fulfilled within an hour. But I'm near certain this will go unfulfilled, but with people telling me that what I'm searching for is not legal, or people making an unhatched or Phony Form counteroffers instead. TehPerson (talk) 18:48, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

That's still not what I was hoping for... That's most liable to just get more "obv that's not possible" 'common knowledge'.

Alright, guess I really do have to deal with this on my own. Thanks anyway. Tiddlywinks (talk) 23:29, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Mainspacing Articles

Just a reminder, you have been told of this several times over the years but any articles you want to Mainspace NEED to be created within your userpace first. Then it needs to be tagged with the {{Mainspace}} template so that an Admin or Editorial Board member can review the article to see if it can be mainspaced. In the future, please make new pages within your userspace first and wait for admin approval. Refusal to comply with this rule may lead to a block in the future. Frozen Fennec 20:03, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Regarding Meteor Assault

I changed the Move Variations page to note the accuracy difference since other than that, it's basically the same move. (Not withstanding Prismatic Lazer and Eternabeam, which have an additional difference in their base power) If you feel like Meteor Assault still does not count as a Hyper Beam variation despite the noted accuracy difference, let me know and I will not edit it back in. CoolMan6001 (talk) 17:26, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Transfer-only moves

I noticed you did quite a lot there, which is good, but I am also wondering basically why is it that you appear to have started from scratch rather than continue from where Suic and I had started (mainly here and here)?

I was also wondering where you pulled the data from, both the learnsets, and the move data itself (since that had a few errors Spriteit and I have recently fixed). And also, whether you already tried to get approval, or even already have approval, or something..?

Apart from missing events, when I compared Suic's GenVII Bulbasaur to yours I also noticed that you did include HM moves that were unable to be transferred. (Yeees, I re-read the pages I linked to, which is where I got the idea from.) Nescientist (talk) 10:49, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

I've never seen it before honestly. I think it's sheer coincidence that our templates actually ended up looking so similar. As for the "starting from scratch" part, I basically took a public database of move sets across all generations, then ran a code to compare cross-generational availability. 99% of what you see there is generated via script. HM moves were included because I never actually took that into consideration. TehPerson (talk) 13:47, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Alright. Let me (us) know if you have approval, and if you have plans to incorporate (or deliberately neglect) some of our ideas. I guess there better be one final product than two conflicting unfinished ones. Nescientist (talk) 10:25, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

I've made some changes to my templates to resemble the parts I liked about Suic's, but just to my Generation VIII dataset for now. Now the only main difference between ours, it appears, is simply that my templates allow for linking to the specific subsections of each page based on learn method. Also, my dataset doesn't have full info on event-only moves, so I might be missing a chunk of those. Feel free to edit what's on my userspace if you like. TehPerson (talk) 01:05, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Hey there, just saw this all happening a while ago. I've been away for a while, so it took me some time to catch up with the progress that has happened in the meantime. For what I saw, the work you've been doing regarding transfer-only moves seems to be very good, and I appreciate that more people are (independently) interested in this matter. I haven't really done much about it lately, but since you seem to be with a good momentum, and given that our templates are very similar overall, I would encourage you to change what you see fitting in my templates to match the ones you already made, if there is any need (if you already made them all, that's also fine, then you can feel free to incorporate to your templates whatever ideas or features you like from mine). You probably saw that by now, but just in case, the topic about transfer-only move in Nescientist's talk page covers what we had discussed about it, along with some conclusions we reached. What I had the most trouble with at the time was writing a script to compare all needed movesets, but yours seems to be doing very well, so that's great. I just think that we should make it so that it can properly categorize moves that cannot be transfered, such as HM moves in some Generations and moves from Pokémon like Cosplay Pikachu, and event/special moves, as was already mentioned. The other important part is getting approval, so if you think we heve enough to start this part, we can try talking to some staff members and show them what we have so far. And of course, I'm available to help in anyway I can, so just give me a shout if you need. Suic (talk) 03:04, 27 April 2020 (UTC)