Talk:Serena (anime)

Clothing in the Trivia section

The fact that Serena's outfit doesn't 100% match her game counterpart is not trivia-worthy (Ataro, back me up ;D). Pokemon XY introduced trainer customization, remember? Mooites (talk) 04:45, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I added a note about it. But you are right, since you can customize your character the trivia is moot.--ForceFire 04:49, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

I don't care ether way, but even if you can customize in game, Serena still has a default appearance that you have to use for a bit, and that default is the same appearance (sans hat) that she appears in if she is your rival. --HoennMaster 05:30, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Is it actually possible to match anime!Serena's appearance in-game? I think the pink hat might be an option, and I know the bow accessory is, but there's no version of that dress with a white collar. Yamiidenryuu (talk) 02:23, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Can make in the trivia, about her currently new look? about referrecing to the Trainer Costumization from the games. --HoopsterJohn (talk) 01:00, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

The canon crush

Right now, we have two relationship charts that state that Serena is "very interested in" Ash, the various playing around the viewers got in the previews for XY013 and we also have a picture made for Valentine's Day of the two characters. I'm not saying put this on Ash's page or or link to the Shipping:AmourShipping page, or even make it a huge part of this page. But I feel like it's a little weird that this one-sided interest not mentioned at all, not even in her Character section, where one would reasonably expect to see it. Maybe I don't remember past shipping edit wars and there's a good reason for not having it included, but I dunno. Just seems like it should be mentioned here in some way.--Purimpopoie (talk) 02:10, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Yeah I agree but I don't know whether you would put it on the trivia or her character. But it covers it pretty well in the Amourshipping article so it might not be needed here Fairycoordinator (talk) 14:26, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Setting new records in doing absolutely nothing

I'm waiting until she actually catches something to edit it in, but out of all the protagonists that are actually trainers, I believe she's already set the record for taking longest to capture a second Pokémon. Before, the record-holder was May who took from EP001 to EP014 to catch her second, but even if we start the timer at XY004 where Serena acquired her Fennekin, and end it at the latest aired episode of XY020, Serena has already taken longer. Granted, a good number of Ash's companions had the advantage of entering the scene with two or more Pokémon, but depending on how the next few weeks go, she stands a good chance of breaking the record for taking longest to be shown capturing a Pokémon, since it looks like Iris currently holds that record of taking from BW001 to BW024. (Again, this is only among protagonists -- Team Rocket are in a league of their own in lack of accomplishments.) Is there more? I haven't looked at trainer battle statistics, but I can't remember Tracey battling any trainer who wasn't Team Rocket anyway. --Pie ^~♪♫ 22:02, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

For May, I think you meant AG001 to AG014. PattyMan 00:16, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes. Whoops. --Pie ^~♪♫ 08:02, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Serena's VA

I know that in the credits of XY23 the VA of Serena has changed because one kanji who looks like an square doesn't match with what I show in the credits. - unsigned comment from Nymphia (talk • contribs)

We need real proof. We can't base it by doing it by eye. So let's just wait for the official VA list. ☼ BlazingFist ☼ 11:02, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

I watched the episode with decent quality andand it's clearly "牧口真幸" in the credits...--電禅Den Zen 16:31, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

When is Serena gonna do something?

I've noticed that Serena hasn't done anything ever since she joined Ash's group. She hasn't caught any new Pokémon, she's not fighting gym battles, not competing in contests, etc. Even her goal as a trainer is unknown. The only thing she has done this whole time is just being there and making Poké Puffs. Is it trivia worthy that she is taking to longest out of all of Ash's traveling companions to do something? I mean, even Bonnie got a Dedenne after traveling with Ash. --PKMNAdventurer (talk) 05:14, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

No, not really. - Kogoro - Talk to me - 05:22, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Well, technically Dedenne is not Bonnie's, It's Clemont's, She's just taking care of it. Besides. Serena has a lot going for her character. Such as AmourShipping, and not having a goal give

s her a chance to experiment with different things Waterninja12345 (talk) 12:39, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Quick Note:

In her Character section, it says "having not shown to either actively train her Fennekin, nor attempt to catch other Pokémon". But she HAS attempted to catch a Pokemon, a Corsola in XY022. Thanks :) Waterninja12345 (talk) 12:31, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Serena's Pancham

This Pancham was supposedly leaked as a figurine awhile ago, but now there are two episodes coming up- one is specifically titled "Serena's First Capture?!", and the other has a picture of Serena holding a Pancham. And they both involve Pancham. Can't we make this canon now? Nutter Butter (talk) 15:20, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Not until the episode in which Serena catches said Pancham actually airs, I'm afraid. - unsigned comment from Missingno. Master (talk • contribs) 15:43, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Is the hair picture really necessary?

I noticed someone uploaded a picture of Serena's hair when she cut it short. Is it really necessary? Because I don't think so. --PKMNAdventurer (talk) 03:31, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

It's an important moment in her character arc. What would you put in its place? - Chosen of Mana 15:52, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Cutting her hair is important yes, but what she looks like after cutting her hair is what is important, not the hair blowing in the wind. Images of her competing in events would be much more suited for the article. --HoennMaster 22:21, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree with PKMNAdventurer and HM. While yes, it was a major plot point for Serena, it fails to show any sort of characterization like a picture of her in a showcase or training with a Pokémon would, which is the point of having pictures in the article is. --Pokemaster97 00:13, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Japanese name: Serena or Selena?

In this official movies link: http://www.pokemon-movie.jp/img/chara/detail/detail_SELENA.jpg, Serena's name is written as "Selena". Do you know whether her trademarked Japanese name is Serena or Selena? And her game counterpart, too? Thanks for your help! --Yen01 (talk) 09:25, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

URL links aren't the most reliable in finding trademarked names, since they tend to misspell certain names like Citron as Shitoron at one time. Here's one that uses Serena. --超龍_「Chao」 10:05, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I see! Don't 100% believe the URLs, got it. But I don't know if they want to use her English name for the code or not, for future international release maybe... Oh forget it, that's sound silly! Anyway, thank you very much (and sorry for being late)! --Yen01 (talk) 16:32, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Serena never gets electrocuted

All main characters at least one gets electrocuted by a Electric type move, Serena seems never seen in the entire XY saga, isn't a great addition to the trivia? --HoopsterJohn (talk) 18:53, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

It's been on the page for a long time now. --HoennMaster 23:57, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Not necesary hold the Pikachu the first time like Bonnie or Iris, shocked by electric move from any Pokémon, even May was shocked by a Magneton and 2 Voltorb. --HoopsterJohn (talk) 04:08, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

A Magneton and two Voltorb are not important and are not the point of the trivia.--ForceFire 04:14, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Shipping in the mainspace

We already have the fact that it's implied that they kiss listed in the history section. Highlighting it as something special and unique in the trivia section is unnecessary and betrays a pro-shipping bias. The facts are all that should be stated; advancing a slanted interpretation of those facts is a betrayal of our encyclopedic mission. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 06:43, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

What exactly is being betrayed? It's not stating that she kissed him, it's saying she has an infatuation towards him, which is true. And she is the only one to do so, which is true. There's nothing shippy about it. If it were more descriptive and said that Misty didn't count, then yes, that would be shipping.--ForceFire 06:51, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Saying she is the only one is absolutely shippy, because it explicitly excludes every other ship. That's the definition of the word "only." Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 06:54, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Because she is the only one... there's nothing shippy about it, it's stating a fact. So what it excludes other ships? They're irrelevant to the trivia.--ForceFire 06:58, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

You don't get it. The fact is "it's implied that they kiss." It's an interpretation that "she is the only one with an infatuation." It's unencyclopedic and frankly wrong to claim an interpretation as factual. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 07:10, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Uh... what does the kiss have to do with the trivia? The kiss is not the point of the trivia. Serena's infatuation with Ash is the point of the trivia, none of the other girls were infatuated with Ash. It's about Serena's attraction to Ash, not the kiss.--ForceFire 07:19, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

The continued and blatant signs of Serena's crush on Ash are MILES beyond the subjective interpretations of the actions of any of Ash's other traveling companions. You're trying to hold up shipping—inherently very biased already—to "prove" that others might be infatuated with Ash and "disprove" this point about Serena, but that's deeply flawed. If you like shipping, you're welcome to argue other ships somewhere appropriate (like our forums). If you dislike shipping, don't try to keep this out just because it's about attraction—ALL attraction is not SOLELY confined to the shipping space. (Brock would be a great example.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 14:05, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

The simple solution would be to change the phrasing to include "obvious" or "undeniable". Misty may have been infatuated with Ash, but it was not obvious and could be denied. Serena's infatuation was both obvious and undeniable. Nutter Butter (talk) 06:06, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Adding the word "obvious" would be enough for me to be OK with the trivium, but I'm definitely very strongly against "undeniable." Shippers are wacko; they could find some way to deny Serena/Ash if they were motivated to do so. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 06:11, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Specifying "obvious" or "undeniable" makes it shippy. They way it's worded now is purposely vague to avoid it going into the shippy route.--ForceFire 06:12, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

It's not vague - it's very specific and a bit biased. I could easily argue that May is infatuated with Ash (I won't, because I don't believe it, but I could), which would make the trivia point untrue. It is unclear whether Ash's previous female traveling companions were infatuated with him. What is clear is that Serena was. So if we want the trivia point to stay, it should state that Serena was clearly infatuated with him.

I think undeniable is the safer term. Didn't Serena admit to liking Ash? And obviousness is in the eye of the beholder. Nutter Butter (talk) 06:14, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

What's specific about the way it's worded now? Saying she's the first? Well, that's because it's true. None of the other girls have ever shown signs of infatuation towards Ash, ever. --ForceFire 06:19, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

We have probably several megabytes of shipping-namespace articles to disprove that assertion, ForceFire.

The trouble is that the current trivium, and all the adjustments we're discussing, are directly interpretive. What we really need is something evidentiary — something like a quote from a director or writer so we can duck behind it and say something like "Serena is the first female traveling companion who was intentionally scripted to be infatuated with Ash." We're probably not going to get that, so it's probably not helpful to bring it up, but oh well. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 06:25, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict, dunno what Pumpkin said) That's an opinion. My, and several other fans', opinion is that Misty did show signs of infatuation towards Ash; all of these signs (and a few other "signs" that are, in my opinion, garbage) can be found on Shipping:PokeShipping, which is why that page exists. HOWEVER, this is not a fact - it's debatable. The writers may not have intended for Misty to show these signs, but they may have. We cannot definitively claim either way. The way the trivia point is currently phrased very specifically rules out the other option, which is an opinion and pretty unprofessional. It is much safer and more accurate to state that Serena is the first to be undeniably infatuated with Ash, because you cannot deny it. Nutter Butter (talk) 06:25, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Read what Tiddlywink's said. Serena's infatuation is beyond subjective interpretation. It's an actual thing. Bringing in the other girls just makes it shippy. There is nothing shippy about the way it is currently phrased.--ForceFire 06:42, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Let me be clear: When I say this trivium is interpretive, I don't mean it's subjective. (I do also think that, but that's another point entirely.) When I say it is interpretive, I mean it's a matter of us describing a quality of the text and/or subtext, rather than evidentiary, which is us citing a specific line or event. Something like "Ash's Charizard had a temper after evolving, but eventually became loyal to Ash" would also be interpretive even though it's not subjective. Now that I'm getting to the heart of explaining this, I think I've realized that this is really my biggest beef with the point: Across all of our pages, virtually every trivium is evidentiary: it cites a specific fact that you can specifically look up, with no wiggle room for is-it-or-isn't-it discussion like we've been having. Interpretive material is generally kept to sections like "personality" or "themes" or something like that. With that in mind, would a possible compromise be to move this sentence from the Trivia section into the paragraph of the Character section that deals with her affection for Ash? Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 07:10, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

I don't see how Kasumi's infatuation with Satoshi is any less objective or subjective than Serena's in that case. Animation is a visual medium, visuals cues such as Kasumi blushing and getting visually irritated being the focal point of the scene when Satoshi was kissed by Fleura (or flirted on by Moe) was clearly intended to let the viewers know she was getting territorial over a crush, much like Serena has done over the course of the XY series. Why should a kiss be the only thing that confirms an infatuation? Using the same logic, I could go Full-On Denial Mode and debate that the unseen kiss was purely platonic (especially when Kalos is based on France, where kisses could simply be a form of saying goodbye between good friends - was it on the lips or on the cheek?), but the way it's presented makes it obviously not the case. Isn't that just common sense? Why do the animators need to hold our hands for information that can be expressed visually? It wouldn't be biased trivia to say "Serena is the first traveling companion to have kissed Ash", that's fair enough, but as of the way it's worded now, "Serena is the first of Ash's female companions to show some form of infatuation towards him", it IS biased because it's using tunnel vision to allow something that's not allowed to be mentioned on any other page for the traveling companions. It clearly is debatable or else we wouldn't be debating on it. Blatant jealousy is invoked by and could be considered a form of blatant infatuation depending on the context, as are kisses. Fang-tan (talk) 23:18, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

I've looked through all of Shipping:PokéShipping#Misty's hints, and every single one of them (in the anime/movies), is brief and heavily arguable. The only one with any more meat than the rest is M02, but only barely (and it's still eminently arguable). (Fleura (Bianca) was mentioned above: but Misty's reaction is actually no different from Tracey's.)

And Serena's infatuation is not at all centered around the supposed kiss. It was all there well before that. Tiddlywinks (talk) 15:46, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Fleura isn't Bianca (that's the dub name for the BW character, or Kanon from M05), she's "Melody" in the dub. And how was Kasumi's reaction no different from Kenji's? She was visibly jealous and was blushing profusely, even twitching [[1]]. If you watch the film itself, she even makes stuttering noises that no one else in the scene is making. Unless one is in denial (why else did she react that way to Fleura and, to a lesser extent, Moe flirting with Satoshi? She was getting jealous because she had a crush on the girls who she just met? C'mon, that's grasping at straws), she's obviously getting territorial over her crush. That kind of visual is no different from any of Serena's "hints" that isn't the kiss, especially the ones that involve Millefeui provoking it.

The only difference between the two shippings in actual canon were how they were utilized, Kasumi's crush was less focused upon compared to Serena's during the OS and she didn't put Satoshi on a pedestal, and she didn't express her infatuation the same way because she's a different character with a different personality/character archetype. Again, the statement that Serena is the first of Satoshi's companions to show some form of infatuation towards him shows some biased towards the coupling, which a Bulbapedia article shouldn't do, and is just as arguable. It's one thing to point out her affection towards Satoshi in her character section, and another thing to claim that she was the first companion to ever have a crush on Satoshi in the trivia section. (The first one that's willing to admit in some form that she has one directly to Satoshi, via kiss? Probably, but then again, it's also interpretive, as in my earlier reply. "First female traveling companion to kiss Ash at all" is much better and leaves less room for argument.) Fang-tan (talk) 17:50, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

1) Can I ask you not to use Japanese names? It's just confusing (like when I misremembered Fleura as M05's Bianca) and kind of pointless. Also: please try to write your post how you want the first time, instead of returning to edit it many, many times afterwards. (You have plenty of time.)

That scene in M02 is also not clearly jealous. She doesn't say a thing directly about it and the next thing she does say after it, it's not at all unreasonable to say she's just annoyed by Melody's questions/personality. And young kids can be simultaneously grossed out and titillated by something like a kiss. (To be clear, I don't mind however you want to interpret it. But you kind of have to want it. That's very different from Serena.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:16, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

No, I use the Japanese names because that's what I'm most familiar with. I watched the entire show in Japanese and don't watch the English dub, so I'm sorry, I cannot conform to the way you refer to the characters unless I'm editing an article. Fortunately we're on Bulbapedia and it can easily be looked up.

Secondly, yes, she is clearly jealous in that scene unless you really want to grasp straws and deny it. There's no reason why Fleura kissing Satoshi would "titillate" Kasumi (nor does her facial expression indicate so) and there's also no reason for her to be "grossed out" by that kiss, she likes romantic things and if she was simply just shocked that someone kissed Satoshi, she wouldn't look so angry nor would be be blushing profusely. There's also the context of the scene, a good chunk of the movie has Fleura teasing Kasumi about being Satoshi's girlfriend or liking him. It's obvious what the intentions were coupled with the visuals and dialogue. Again, anime is a visual medium, she doesn't need to have internal monologues screaming "Oh my god, she kissed Satoshi, I'm so jealous!" holding the viewer's hand with exposition, the visuals and context are obvious enough. In comparison to Millefeui teasing Serena, her reactions to the same type of teasing are different but just as valid, Kasumi didn't need to be constantly shy blushing at Satoshi or spilling the spaghetti around him every other episode because that's just not what's in her character, what was shown was enough validation. I have this very strong impression that if one were to replace Kasumi for Serena for those scenes (or possibly any minor fanexaggerated "shippy" scene involving any Pokegirl traveling companions for Serena), these quote-on-quote interpretive details would instantly be validated, which would show strong bias towards that coupling, which I feel doesn't belong here of all places for any coupling. Fang-tan (talk) 19:47, 6 December 2016 (UTC)