Welcome to Bulbapedia, the free Pokémon encyclopedia that anyone can edit. Create your account and get started with editing pages!
staging.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

Talk:TM: Difference between revisions

From Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia.
Jump to navigationJump to search
Line 416: Line 416:
::::::::::::::Of the moves on the list, attract and captivate are the least learned by a significant amount. Keeping them there kind of "ruins the purpose" of the list. I'm not sure why you're so determined to keep them.  
::::::::::::::Of the moves on the list, attract and captivate are the least learned by a significant amount. Keeping them there kind of "ruins the purpose" of the list. I'm not sure why you're so determined to keep them.  
::::::::::::::If the "reasonable explanation" clause exists primarily to exclude Pokemon that can't learn TMs, why can't we just replace "have a reasonable explanation" with "can't learn TMs"? That would be a lot simpler and easier to interpret. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 14:49, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::::If the "reasonable explanation" clause exists primarily to exclude Pokemon that can't learn TMs, why can't we just replace "have a reasonable explanation" with "can't learn TMs"? That would be a lot simpler and easier to interpret. [[User:Sumwun|sumwun]] ([[User talk:Sumwun|talk]]) 14:49, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::That's what the "reasonable explanation" is for. So that "significant amount" becomes "a small amount". You missed the point for the "reasonable explanation" clause. It's not for Pokémon that can't learn TMs period, it's for Pokémon that can't learn ''specific'' TMs for one reason or another.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EBC600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EBC600">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#D8B600">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#D8B600">ire</span>]] 15:04, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Revision as of 15:04, 8 April 2019

Greengiant, I put the games for a reason so people would know what games they are in. Yes I know they can click on the Gen links but trust me it looked better the way I had it. Thanks for linking the moves, though. Also, you didn't need to get rid of the Move Tutors link I had. Don't overedit.LedianX 00:56, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Chris, with all due respect, I don't believe he's overediting. The names of the games are redundant with respect to what generation they're found in. So long as you link to the generation, a user can figure out the games in it. Evkl 01:18, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I think I know what you're saying with how the differences between FireRed and LeafGreen can confuse things so you wanted to clarify. I didn't notice that before, but I think now that there might be a simpler way to say it, I'm just not sure how. I also didn't mean to remove the Move Tutors link, sorry about that. -Greengiant

Just a thought - perhaps, for organizational purposes, we should turn the three lists into one big chart? --Pie 19:47, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

potrayal

I really think the artical should include info on the looks of TMs, from the box thingys from the TCG to the modern disk shape (I also seem to recall them appearing in special as something else entirely). --Deuxhero 06:20, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

I distinctly remember a Pokémon manga where they appeared as boxes (in a simpler style than the TCG ones, which came later). --DarkfireTaimatsu 20:26, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
acctualy, thinking about, I'm not exactly sure it was special. --Deuxhero 06:01, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
I think it was seen used against the Eevee Brothers, which would make it the Electric Tale of Pikachu manga... Eevee learned... Mimic, was it? Let it copy Jolteon's move, I think. --DarkfireTaimatsu 06:55, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

TM Pages

For TMs that have not changed their move from generation to generation, I've begun changing the articles, since they aren't really referential to the move itself. The current format is TMs vary between generations. However, TMXX is (move) in every generation to date. -- I have switched this to TMXX has contained the move (MOVE) in every generation to date., because I feel the note that TMs vary between generations is both superfluous and misleading if the TM in question hasn't varied between generations. That statement would be better suited for this article. evkl 18:35, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Rock Smash and Flash

In the trivia section, is it worth noting that these moves have been both TM and HM moves at some point? -- Nebula 00:18, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Theoretical National TM List

I made a theoretical national TM list. I concatenated each regions TM list (in order), then removed duplicates. What I got was the following:

140 TMs throughout the games! --User:JP585

well thats pretty cool, but, whats the point? -- MAGNEDETH 04:00, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Well mainly it is for use for theoretical games....or for comic makers who want consistency throughout their stories. Personally I would use it for my comic (gonna make a character as a representative of a TM Factory).--JP585 04:20, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
well, at the least, it makes for a good piece of trivia. -- MAGNEDETH 04:22, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
It's an interesting list, certainly. TTEchidna 05:36, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Trainer Card Game Technical Machines

True, True. The national TM list good view of the totality of Technical Machines. Of course I did not include the TCG machines. They are not numbered

--JP585 05:30, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Pokémon Mystery Dungeon

What about the other moves from Mystery Dungeon? --ht14 21:49, 21 April 2008 (GMT)

I don't know what you mean. We have articles for Vacuum-Cut, etc.. --ニョロトノ666 01:57, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm talking about in this article...ht14 02:22, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Include Glitch TMs

Why not someone add in the Glitch TMs as well? - Hazardous FIRE! 04:40, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Because real Pokémon game data and glitch/hack Pokémon game data ought not be mixed. In the Pokémon prev/next for Bulbasaur, it doesn't show Missingno. or 'M. They aren't real Pokémon just like the glitch TMs aren't real TMs. TTEchidna 04:52, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Pokemon that can't learn TMs

Should we make a list of pokemon that cant learn TMs??

we were talking about it in the main page and User:The_dark_lord_trombonator told us to take it here instead; the list we have so far is: Caterpie, Metapod, Weedle, Kakuna, Magikarp, Ditto, Unown, Wobbuffet, Wurmple, Silcoon, Cascoon, Wynaut, Burmy, Combee and Kricketot, Beldum and Smeargle

if we are it should be completed first, also props go to; User:Mr._Charlie,User:Jmvb,User:EpicFail andUser:The_dark_lord_trombonator for compiling the list so far --TiTAn 21:35, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

If there is anything missing, just add it yourself. With that said, I think we have them all. —darklordtrom 21:44, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
OK, someone else should put this into the page because I dont want to risk doing a bad edit of an article (never edited before)and would rather start with grammar/punctuation errors and not this kind of list
also how do you change your signature --TiTAn 09:32, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
It's, um, already on the page. Signature changing is done in your Preferences; a basic howto guide for design is here. —darklordtrom 21:37, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

TM Chart

I was really hoping to find a chart of all the TMs each Pokémon can learn. Having it all on one page would be helpful in deciding whom to use which TMs on. HyperHacker 03:42, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

What exactly do you mean by that? Each Pokémon has a list of moves that they can learn by TM on their page, and which Pokémon can learn a particular move by TM is listed on the move pages. Werdnae (talk) 06:11, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Buyable and Unbuyable TMs

There's no Information on the price of TMs. We really need that information to know which TMs are replaceable and which TMs are "super-rare" irreplaceable. --Arima 02:10, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Never mind... --Arima 02:12, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Vulpix's energy ball

While a Vulpix that knows energy ball is a good example of a Pokémon which learns a TM move only through breeding in Generation IV, Vuplix and Ninetales can learn energy ball from TM53 in Generation V. Anyone know of an example which still works in Gen V?Chammy 18:13, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Seriously?

Do you guys really think that there are no TMs in the show?! What if they never appear in the show or Ash and gang find and use them off screen?! Cause there is no way Ash's Herracross could know Hyper Beam or Sleep Talk without using a TM.- unsigned comment from Mr.Char (talk • contribs)

Until we actually see a TM (or hear about one) in the anime, we can't assume that they exist. --SnorlaxMonster 22:51, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Reply to above

Actually, in season 1 Ash is seen trying to teach a tm to Pikachu. The tm appears to be a monitor with the attack on it. He tries to teach Pikachu mega punch I believe. This is either likely in the episode with the Mankeys or Diglets. I am unsure as to which. --WheatThins 02:46, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Update needed

The last section, "Returning TMs", needs to be updated for Gen V. Flicky1991 18:11, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

I don't get the fact that Sleep Talk and Psych Up have "remained their TM Status". Because Sleep Talk is not a TM in Gen V, and Psych Up is. --Jdthebud 09:03, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

TMs that (almost) everything can use

We already have a list of Pokemon that can't use any TMs. On the opposite end of things, should we have a list of TMs that *every* Pokemon can learn? (Minus those that can't use any of them and a few specific others, of course.)

I've actually put together a list for this. I'm pretty sure I've got everything.

  • TM03 [gen II]: Curse
  • TM06: Toxic
  • TM10 [since gen II]: Hidden Power
  • TM13 [gen II]: Snore
  • TM17 [since gen II]: Protect (except for Regigigas)
  • TM20 [gen II]/TM58 [gen IV]: Endure
  • TM21 [since gen II]: Frustration
  • TM27 [since gen II]: Return
  • TM31 [gen I]: Mimic
  • TM32: Double team
  • TM34 [gen I]: Bide
  • TM34 [gen II]/TM87 [gens IV and V]: Swagger
  • TM35 [gen III]/TM82 [gen IV]: Sleep Talk
  • TM42 [gens III and IV]: Facade
  • TM43 [gens III and IV]: Secret Power
  • TM44: Rest (except for Regigigas)
  • TM45 [since gen II]: Attract (except for genderless and Nincada; includes Mew and Cryogonal)
  • TM50 [gen I]/TM90 [gens IV and V]: Substitute
  • TM78 [gen IV]: Captivate (except for genderless and Nincada; includes Mew)
  • TM83 [gen IV]: Natural gift

-Spudwalt 04:24, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Mystery Dungeon

Bringing this up once again... will we eventually do something related to TMs and HMs for the Mystery Dungeon series? I know the locations will be hard to come up with, but buy and sell prices should be somewhat simple, if not time consuming. R.A. Hunter Blade 00:15, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

There's already a space for them on the individual TM and HM pages. Parameters are locmdrb, pricemdrb, sellmdrb, locmdtds, pricemdtds, sellmdtds, locmdww, pricemdww and sellmdww. If there's anything which you know is the same across multiple existing MD games, the relevant parameters default to that specified by pricemd and sellmd. Werdnae (talk) 01:32, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
Alright, I'll look into it then. I was on Thunder's page and didn't see anything, so I wanted to ask just in case. R.A. Hunter Blade 01:45, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Black and White 2

On the description, it is referred to as "No. <TM number> <TM name>". Do we need redirects or anything? --Abcboy (talk) 16:34, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Trivia

The Trivia section for this page is enormous and rather difficult to read. Should something be done about it? --Wynd Fox 02:14, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Gen VI Pokémon Move Compatibility

So, as I was seeing if I could update some TM move pages for Gen VI games, I noticed something incredibly useful. While in Cassius's PC, if you choose the "Organize Boxes" option, there's a little magnifying glass icon at the bottom. This allows you to search for Pokémon in your boxes that fulfill certain criteria. One of these criteria is "TMs & HMs". To quote the game, "You can check whether Pokémon can use the selected TM or HM." So, I'm going to run through the Pokémon that I have and try to update any TM/HM move pages that need some Gen VI love. However, I don't own even all of the Kalos Pokémon yet, much less the rest (some of which will have to wait until the Pokémon Bank launches next month anyway). So, if anyone wants to further edit the pages with their own Pokémon collection, feel free to do so. I just figured I'd let everyone know that they've made it amazingly easy to determine this compatibility in X and Y. Amimizunofan22 (talk) 08:02, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Incompatible Pokémon

Some Pokémon, like Wobbuffet cannot learn TMs, there are confusion between it can learn TMs and it cannot learn at all. Someone must check Pokémon pages whatever it can learn TMs or not. Cinday123 (Talk) 02:52, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say seeing as Wobbuffet's page clearly shows it being able to learn a move from TMs. --It's Funktastic~!話してください 02:57, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I'll find more TMs later because Wobbuffet can learn TMs so I'll check on Pokémon Storage System on my game. Cinday123 (Talk) 03:14, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Finite and repeatable locations

The regular item pages already differentiate between finite and repeatable obtaining methods. Should the list of TM location pages, as well as each TM's page, differentiate as well? sumwun (talk) 03:30, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Near-universal TMs

The article currently says, "With few exceptions, all Pokémon who are compatible with TMs can learn the following moves". What does "few" mean in this context? sumwun (talk) 00:24, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Go check pages of these moves. It's about cases like Attract and Captivite for Nincada, Confide for Guzzlord and Stakataka etc.--Rocket Grunt (Report To Me) 17:55, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
Every TM move has Pokemon that can't learn it. What's so special about these near-universal TMs? sumwun (talk) 21:56, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

TMs that only appears once

Generation I Mega Punch* • Razor Wind • Whirlwind • Mega Kick* • Horn Drill • Body Slam* • Take Down
Double-Edge* • BubbleBeam • Water Gun • Submission • Counter* • Rage • Dragon Rage
Fissure • Mimic* • Bide • Metronome* • Egg Bomb • Skull Bash • Softboiled* • Sky Attack* • Psywave
Generation II DynamicPunch • Curse • Rollout • Zap Cannon* • Sweet Scent • Snore* • Icy Wind*
DragonBreath • Mud-Slap* • Defense Curl* • Detect • Fury Cutter* • Nightmare*
Generation IV Brine • Drain Punch* • Silver Wind • Recycle* • Avalanche • Captivate • Natural Gift
Generation V Telekinesis* • Ally Switch*
Generation VI Power-Up Punch
Generation VII
SMUSUM 		Leech Life • Brutal Swing • Smart Strike • Aurora Veil
Generation VII
PE 		Helping Hand* • Foul Play* • Outrage* • Play Rough • Superpower* • Drill Run* • Megahorn

This is a list of TMs that only appears once. An * means the moves is available as move tutors in another game. Feel free to add into the article if it is useful. Might still have some errors though. -Pokeant (talk) 17:20, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Merging TM tables

I've made a merged table for TMs from all generations [[1]]. Is it ok to add it on page?--Rocket Grunt (Report To Me) 21:20, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

That's something I've been wanting to see done for a while, too. One thing I'd do though is have the Move on the left-most column. TehPerson (talk) 21:37, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
When I try to sort the table, the -'s appear above the numbers. Can you somehow make the numbers appear at the top when I sort the table? sumwun (talk) 03:06, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Version 2.0 [2]. Feel free to make edits and comments.--Rocket Grunt (Report To Me) 14:52, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Please don't change the template without a proper consensus and staff approval. I don't think sorting by TM number is appropriate, it's not the number that's important in the list, it's the moves. I've created a template that simply merges the current templates into one, the issue I have with my template is whether the types/categories are needed for the template, hence why there are two of them.--ForceFire 12:59, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
All of lists were wrote as regular tables, not as templates, so I thought it was fine. I also don't think your table would make any difference because it works like current tables but glued together not getting any advantage of unity. Mine lists focuses on moves sorted alphabetically because mostly the same set of moves are made TMs, then you can sort table withing generation to get the set of its own TM list. What do you think?--Rocket Grunt (Report To Me) 16:47, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
I personally like Force Fire's template better because I think it would result in a smaller table. sumwun (talk) 19:14, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
I've made beta version [3].--Rocket Grunt (Report To Me) 21:43, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
There's nothing wrong with "gluing" the templates into one table. Also, when you sort your table to a specific generation, seeing the jumbled up numbers from other generations will surely confuse users. As I said, the numbers aren't that important. I also think it'd be better if it was a template rather than raw coding, saves bytes.--ForceFire 03:54, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

Attract

Why does attract count as near-universal? In USUM, 120 Pokemon can't learn attract. All the other near-universal TMs in USUM are not learned by no more than 29 Pokemon. sumwun (talk) 18:11, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

My idea is: Being an universal TM is not a "real" information that is specified in the pokemon franchise, but more of a trivia how we present the data. We can do it either as list which Pokemon learn a TM or that it's a near universal TM and list all the exceptions. It depends on which is easier to read and being understood.--Rocket Grunt (Report To Me) 19:58, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
There are some other TMs that a bit more than half of all Pokemon can learn, like rain dance and sunny day. In those cases, lists of Pokemon that can learn them would be longer than lists of Pokemon that can't. Should those count as near-universal? sumwun (talk) 16:27, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
You're right, that would be unnecessary. I'm out if ideas.--Rocket Grunt (Report To Me) 17:42, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Do you think attract counts as near-universal? sumwun (talk) 18:24, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
I'd like to count it, except for two obvious cases (non-TM compatible and genderless) there are only 5 other pokemon which don't learn Attract.--Rocket Grunt (Report To Me) 15:25, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
I'd like to count it. Except for one obvious case (Pokemon that didn't raise the continents), there are no Pokemon that don't learn precipice blades. sumwun (talk) 21:29, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
suwun,if you want to be taken seriously, don't mock other user's ideas/suggestions. Your comment made no sense, since it has nothing to do with what's being discussed. Team Rocket Grunt put up a good case for Attract being a near universal move, only 5 Pokémon can't learn the move, the others should automatically be excluded (since one group can't learn TMs in the first place, and the other can't because of how Attract works).--ForceFire 05:28, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
So a TM move counts as near-universal if most Pokemon that can successfully use that move can learn the move? sumwun (talk) 15:39, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
Yes. You shouldn't be counting Pokémon that can't learn TMs anyways and non gendered Pokémon should be excluded for moves like Attract.--ForceFire 04:06, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
Why do we need the extra condition for attract? Wouldn't it be simpler if we used the same conditions for all TM moves? sumwun (talk) 15:09, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
I'll try to make it more precise: "A TM move is considered near universal, if there are less than X Pokemon that can't learn this move that aren't TM incompatible or have reasonable explanation for move to interfere with this Pokemon specifications." Current specifications are as follows:
  • genderless Pokemon or ones that evolve into such - Attract and Captivite
  • Pyukumuku which doesn't learn offensive moves - Facade, Frustration, Hidden Power, Return and Round
  • Regigigas that can't remove its ability - Rest and Protect
  • Komala that is supposed to be sleeping constantly - Rest
All the rest cases: Attract (5), Confide (2), Double Team (3), Double-Edge (8), Facade (8), Rest (5), Round (2), Sleep Talk (1 because Spinda has been fixed), Swagger (6) and Toxic (1). That would make X not lower than 9 and if it accepted any other move as near universal it would be unreasonable high.--Rocket Grunt (Report To Me) 12:34, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
If you removed the "reasonable explanation" condition but also removed attract and captivate, then X would remain at 9. Why is this definition worse? sumwun (talk) 22:28, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
Team Rocket Grunt: That's a good way to sort the "near universal TM" moves. Having 9 being the highest number for Pokemon that can't learn a TM for one reason or another is a reasonable number, not as arbitrary or random as 17.
sumwun: Not sure why you're so hellbent on removing Attract and Captivate from the list. The "reasonable explanation" clause is important, because like with Pokémon that can't learn TMs, you shouldn't be counting them for specific moves.--ForceFire 05:12, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
Of the moves on the list, attract and captivate are the least learned by a significant amount. Keeping them there kind of "ruins the purpose" of the list. I'm not sure why you're so determined to keep them.
If the "reasonable explanation" clause exists primarily to exclude Pokemon that can't learn TMs, why can't we just replace "have a reasonable explanation" with "can't learn TMs"? That would be a lot simpler and easier to interpret. sumwun (talk) 14:49, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
That's what the "reasonable explanation" is for. So that "significant amount" becomes "a small amount". You missed the point for the "reasonable explanation" clause. It's not for Pokémon that can't learn TMs period, it's for Pokémon that can't learn specific TMs for one reason or another.--ForceFire 15:04, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:TM&oldid=2950402"