Talk:List of Pokémon with form differences

Arceus

Shouldn't Arceus e listed here too?--ElectAbuzzzz 09:28, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't see why not. --TTEchidna 02:07, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Deoxys.

It's Forme. Check the Pokémon.com dex. TTEchidna 06:01, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

But why would they change that for Deoxys? It makes no sense. - Cassius335 10:10, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

It's Forme. Even the Nintendo Power guilled says so. Posted by the Θρtιmαtum♏^Talk|Links10:11 21 May 2008

Which I'm assuming they don't spell "guilled"... - Cassius335 10:15, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Proves that I'm obssessed with Special. I emant GUIDE. Posted by the Θρtιmαtum♏^Talk|Links10:16 21 May 2008

So you have the guide, and it says "forme?" Jeez! How is it possible we didn't know about this before now? --Martonimos_((Talk)) 06:53, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

My point... - Cassius335 16:12, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Deoxys911 posted this info on my talk page, but after I played through the special mission in Ranger and they were all spelled as "form," I thought he was just being misled. I guess Game Freak and HAL just got their wires crossed somewhere, because it's starting to look more and more like he was right... Looks like I owe someone an apology. --Martonimos_((Talk)) 19:40, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Shaymin

Sky Forme YinYang 19:44, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Looks fake but cute User:CoolPikachu!

Another one??? God, I must delete everything with that link! Posted by the Θρtιmαtum♏^Talk|Links11:06 25 May 2008

Yeah, it's fake. It seemed so real! YinYang 21:57, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

It's been confirmed! How do we add it? YinYang 23:32, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

You'll have to ask an admin, since they've got this page protected (damn vandals) --Manga-in-a-bottle 02:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

-snort- Looks kinda like a reindeer.. Hehe.. I think it's pretty ugly actually, and I hope that isn't the in-game sprite displayed on the page, it doesn't look good at all to me. Evan 06:12, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Apparently it's gonna be in "giratina and the boquet in the sky" (japanese name), along with the rotom formes. I'm guessing that giratina's "origin forme" is going to be in there, too. --Neosteel Empoleon

Cherrim

Cherrim should definitely be on this page - there are already other examples of Pokemon that can change their form, and Cherrim's difference is similar in nature to Castform's. Why is this page locked, by the way?KrytenKoro 00:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

The page is protected due to edit warring over the spelling of "form". Some users insist that it should be spelled "forme", which is incorrect--there isn't supposed to be an E in "form". --Shiningpikablu252 01:14, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Well duh, not in NORMAL English. But for Deoxys, Giratina, and Shaymin, yes there is. TTEchidna 02:14, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not exactly sure that "Bulb Bud Forme" and "Bloom Forme" are official names. ~$aturn¥oshi ^{THE VOICES} 20:00, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Me neither, but that's what it said on the Cherrim page, so I'd rather stick with precedent then make a fuss. If someone in the know has more info, though, go ahead.KrytenKoro 21:29, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Also, we should differentiate between which are recognized by the Pokedex, and which are obviously different forms but not recognized as such. Giratina might actually fit into this, as it's Pokedex entry doesn't say anything about its form (as of now).KrytenKoro 21:30, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Where the heck did 'Bud Forme' and 'Bloom Forme' names come from? - Cassius335 13:56, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

They were added to Cherrim's page. Most likely a while ago. ~$aturn¥oshi ^{THE VOICES} 14:38, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

They're purely fanon names I came up with to differentiate the sprite tables. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 15:27, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Since they are not actual names, I think it would be safe to drop the "e" off of Forme, so as not to confuse anyone into thinking they are official. ~$aturn¥oshi ^{THE VOICES} 15:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

We should drop more than the e (which is still official since everything else uses it). Castform is probably the best example to follow for the captions. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 15:37, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not saying that "Forme" is unofficial, just "Bud" and "Bloom". In any case, should they just be labeled "Sunny Day" and "Other"? ~$aturn¥oshi ^{THE VOICES} 15:44, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

That works. Or 'Normal' instead of 'Other'- Cassius335 16:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I wasn't too keen on the word "Other" anyway. ~$aturn¥oshi ^{THE VOICES} 16:45, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

forme is for legendaries only, you know. Has Cherrim seen a TCG release yet? That's where I got the names for Castform's forms. TTEchidna 18:01, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I could only find the one card. It is simply titled Cherrim and it is already in bloom. ~$aturn¥oshi ^{THE VOICES} 18:46, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

According to the Official Pocket Version of the Pokédex guide, Cherrim's forms are "Overcast Form" and "Sunshine Form". Spelled like that without the "e". The Deoxys Formes do have the "e", though. ~$aturn¥oshi ^{THE VOICES} 15:30, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Miltank

Miltank's spots are diffrent in every game hinting they change in each region.

Just because they differ in games doesn't mean that the Miltank change depending on the region. =/ - _spontaneousCombusken 03:19, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, that's the way Arbok is supposed to work, but we all know that a Hoenn Arbok can magically change to a Kanto Arbok.--Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 03:27, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Castform

The same guide I mentioned above for Cherrim also list the names of Castform's forms. They are: "Normal form", "Sun form", "Rain form" and "Hail form". Should these be used? ~$aturn¥oshi ^{THE VOICES} 15:48, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Others

Can I point out? "Mantyke's Pokédex entry in Pearl says that the special patterns on its back vary from region to region. However, this has yet to be proven" How can this be true? It is availible in Ranger SOA, isnt it? --Lucario12 13:40, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Rotom's Formes?

I'm not convinced it is a toaster, as I see it to resemble a microwave oven more than a toaster. The others I agree with, but not this one. Gywall^(Talk) 16:17, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I always thought it was a microwave oven,too. It's actually called "heat forme", though. Go figure.

--Neosteel <color: silver> Empoleon <color:blue>

Stupid Protection

OMG, I wanted to edit the page to put in OFFICIAL names for Castform forms (they are in TCG) and I discovered the page is protected. Please stop that debate about "Form" or "Forme". Official sources use スピンロトム Spin Rotom, Wash Rotom etc. As long as they are not officially revealed, just leave it alone. --Maxim 06:13, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Interesting. The four Castfors are called:

• Castform
• Rain Castform
• Snow-cloud Castform
• Sunny Castform

As far as Rotom goes, Urutapu makes a pretty good argument for the use of "Forme." --((Marton imos)) 06:19, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Just to kill any doubts about Rotom Forms

Look here! (courtesy of Blue SkY) Photos taken from the game itself. See it now? It's ロトム (Rotom), not フォルム (Forme)! Which means that Rotom forms are supposed to be named Wash Rotom, Spin Rotom, Cut Rotom etc., they are not called "Formes" anywhere. So, it's officialy EoT. --Maxim 09:04, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

"フォルム" or "フォーム"

Both translate to "form" through a Google translate, but apparently the first is used intentionally and translated as "Forme", while the second translates as "form".

What I need to know... The English games have a specific text. The fifth button on a Pokémon's entry says "Forms", while on the top screen, when it's pressed, it says "FORMS" and on the form-switcher button, says "See another form." Now, in the Japanese, all these instances of "form", does it say "フォーム", the standard transliteration, or does it use "フォルム" for them all? Because if it's the nonstandard one... that means that really, truly, it's intended to be "Forme" for everything.

But if not then we have the ambiguity problem. Deoxys says "see another form", but it cycles among the Attack, Defense, Speed, and Normal Formes. And that is proven by Pokémon.com. TTEchidna 21:05, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

The button says "But see another" (べつのすがをみろ) in Pokémon Platinum. Giratina uses Forme for sure.. not got enough Pokédex for others. Gywall^(Talk) 21:32, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Anything for DP? It seems that Pokémon Wiki has it all under the "Forme/フォルム" spelling, even Unown. TTEchidna 21:36, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, the Unown don't have the Forme spelling attached. They all share the same thing. (which I forgot to copy) Gywall^(Talk) 21:43, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Templates

I noticed that all of these Pokémon with alternate Formes/forms all have their own special template (either a bigger spritebox to accomodate them all or, in the case of Arceus and Unown, one based on the second you enter the page) except for Castform. Over the past few days, I've made such templates but I'm having trouble getting them to appear. If anyone thinks we should implement these and that they can help, post on my talk page.--MisterE13 01:22, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

More pictures

Should we show pictures for the other Pokémon (Arbok, Dialga, etc.) except for Mantyke (till Generation V) YinYang 21:50, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Well Arbok's patterns... differ based on the generation of sprites. They aren't truly form differences. TTEchidna 04:22, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Maybe there could be section or page called "Sprite Differences among Generations/Regions" or something. YinYang 22:07, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget Koffings poison mark -- Clarky13 22:12, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Before Unown

I'm wondering why nobody's thought about the most obvious very first 'form change' and that is the Male and Female versions of Nidoran, and the altered evolution paths they take. Does anyone think this is worth mentioning in the article? Korikitsune 03:18, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

No, because they are gender differences, not different forms. They are two individual Pokémon, unlike the forms of Unown and friends. — THE TROM — 03:22, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

They are 2 pokemon with the same name, the only difference being the gender, I think that counts, I'm not sure why it doesn't count, seeing as how they have the same name in all technicality, and in the show, people wouldn't say, 'Go Nidoran Male!' just, 'Go, Nidoran!' It's a male and female version of the pokemon, who's evolutionary pattern depends on it's gender. The minor gender difference in other pokemon is mentioned later in the article. Korikitsune 04:35, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

With your reasoning, Hippowdon and Bidoof would be here also. Gender differences are different from form differences. Furthermore, the Nidorans have different 'dex numbers. They are completely separate Pokémon. — THE TROM — 06:11, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Protection

This isn't necessary anymore, nobody's gonna try to add Missigno.--MisterE13 01:52, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Shellder Sprites

I'm making sprites for the Shellder. Should we have them on this page? (This is my first ever edit) Pokemon17 07:15, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

No, because they are not in the actual game but fan-made ones you made. --☆Coolピカチュウ! 07:28, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Missingno.

I was looking back in the history of this page, and I saw that there had been an edit war over Missingno.'s absence from this page. And a quote from one of the edit summaries, "stop, it isn't an actual pokemon", really enraged me. I believe that the guy who tried to add Missingno. had the right idea, because, after all, it does have different forms.

I have made this argument in the past, and I shall make it again, for what I hope to be the final time. A Pokémon, in terms of in the games, is a specific piece of data that can learn and use attacks, can battle other Pokémon, can be captured, has a Pokédex entry, has a cry, has a type or types, and has stats. Granted, three of Missingno.'s forms gain their types, stats, and moves from other Pokémon, but they qualify. Sure, Ash captured a rice ball with a Poké Ball, and I'm not claiming that rice balls are Pokémon. This is because although rice balls can apparently be captured in Poké Balls, they fail at every other requirement. No attacks, no cry, can't battle, no dex entry, no cry, no types, no moves, no stats. Glitch Pokémon, on the other hand, fulfill all those requirements. Maybe you will argue that Glitch Pokémon would've appeared in the anime if they were real. Well, then, by that logic, why don't we just say that Porygon2 and Porygon-Z aren't real Pokémon? After all, they've never appeared in the anime, and many people believe that they never will, so why not! No. Just no. And many people will claim that Missingno. is not a real Pokémon due to the accidental nature with which it came to be. What a load of bull****! Pennicillin came about by accident, do we deny its medicinal value? No, we do not! And likewise, we do not deny that Glitch Pokémon are Pokémon, too! If Glitch Pokémon aren't considered to be real Pokémon, then by that logic, I defeated the Elite 4 in Blue without any Pokémon, and I have a PC box that is full, yet has no Pokémon in it! Fail logic is epic, epic fail.

I do not say this to start any arguments; I say this to stop them. I wish for this longtime and meaningless controversy to be put to rest once and for freaking all. I will not prematurely attempt to add Missingno. back on the page, for fear of yet another unproductive edit war starting up. Rather, I will wait patiently for someone in authority to allow me to proceed with this. I am confident, given my thorough argument, that it will not take long at all.

The majority of Bulbapedia editors are highly intelligent, prominently including its illustrious staff. I urge you all, therefore, to not let Bulbapedia's credibility and neutrality, as well as your own usually clear and cloudless judgement, fall victim to the naysayers, the stubborn imbeciles, the biased, discriminating anti-glitch bigots that have so plagued Bulbapedia and impeded the noble progress of the Order of the Glitch. Allow Missingno. and its various formes to be added to the page, to be truly counted among other Pokémon, and it will be considered a great achievement. A blow will be stricken for truth and logic! Glitch Pokémon are every bit as good as "official" Pokémon, if not even better, and it's time the good people of Bulbapedia realized this! - unsigned comment from Missingno. Master (talk • contribs) 12:49, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

While several of your arguments are flawed (I can say which ones, but it doesn't matter), I will agree that MissingNo. deserves a mention on this page. In a different way to the other standard Pokémon (perhaps in the trivia section or under other Pokémon), but definitely a mention of some kind. --SnorlaxMonster 13:05, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

There are 39 glitch Pokémon (which have unique index numbers) on the English R/B alone which use the name 'Missingno.' If those are to stay I'd reccommend a seperate article. But also, what makes Missingno. different to all the other glitch Pokémon, just because it is well known doesn't mean we should keep Pikachu's page and delete Dunsparce's page (just a matter of speech)? We would need the several thousand variations of ?????????? and the handful amount of ? mark glitches. Don't forget that there are other R/B/Y glitch Pokémon except Missingno. which have the same name too! As well, as the 39 English 'yellow missingno.' and so on.

That would be awkward, I'd say we should simply have it on trivia and leave the different variations of such glitch Pokémon on their own articles. --Chickasaurus 18:27, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Well... it's not really an official Pokemon. No matter how much you will plug your ears and scream IT'S OFFICIAL!!!! because it has Pokemon-like data... well, you gotta fill that in or else the game would go ballistic. Is the name "Missingno." in the copyright database? I can't check that for myself (don't know how), but I have my doubts about it being copyrighted by Nintendo. It's just filler data that people happen to get attached to, because you can encounter it during 'normal gameplay' (ish...), has more of a name than the other glitches, can have a more 'real' sprite, and doesn't have much effect on your game other than the Hall of Fame.

Does that make it a Pokemon? No. No, it doesn't. Has it appeared in any other game except Generation I? No. Was it intended to be encountered? No. It may have types/moves/stats, but that was probably to avoid a total crash if someone happened to come across it.

As for Missingno being on the page... well. I don't think it's a "true" form per se, but it at least deserves a trivia mention or something. Because it's not official and two of its "forms" are just glitchy boxes, I don't think it needs an entire section... trivia should be suitable. ▫▪Ťïňắ ^♫♥ 18:39, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Rotom changing forms

The article explains that Rotom changes form by possessing household appliances. However, it does not say how. (Giratina's section explains how, for example.) By showing the in-game sprites for each form, wouldn't that indicate those forms are available in the games? So what needs to happen in order to trigger this change? Do you examine one of the appliances with Rotom leading the party? FrozenStrategy 12:40, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

It should mention it. Examine an appliance in Rotom's room (Galactic or Silph) with a Rotom in your party (anywhere), then a message pops up saying that Rotom wants to go into the motor and you are asked whether or not to permit it. Then to revert it, examine the spot where the appliance was and Rotom will want to revert to it's original form and you are asked to permit it. This is all from Platinum, so HGSS might be slightly different. --SnorlaxMonster 13:26, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to add that if you're using HeartGold and SoulSilver you will find the room in Silph Co. by setting Rotom as your Walking Pokémon and entering the lift which is normally disfunctionable --Chickasaurus 14:40, 15 July 2010 (UTC).

Basurao

shouldn't basurao be included here? Badwolf1234 11:56, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Think I figured out the form/forme issue.

Form - Generically used

Forme - Used when referring to a specific form.

Ex: "Deoxys has four forms: Normal, Attack, Defense, and Speed Formes."--immewnitythemew 02:28, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

True, but keep in mind some Pokémon still don't use the Forme terminology, such as Burmy, which is instead referred to by its cloak. --Andy^P_K^M_N 12:30, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

"Forme" is for legendary Pokémon, "form" is for non-legendary Pokémon. This has been known for a while. Example: Overcast Form, Attack Forme. --SnorlaxMonster 12:36, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Shadow Lugia

Shadow Lugia needs to be in the "Pokémon with differing forms" section rather than the "Other form differencees" section, although it is only in one game, the same also applies to Spiky-ear Pichu, who is only in HeartGold/SoulSilver but is in the section. Could Dark/Primal Dialga could also be added too?Vuvuzela2010 21:15, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Rotation By Time.

This has been discussed multiple times before, but it is quite frustrating to wait a certain amount of time to see the art or stats of a certain form of Pokémon. There are several different ways we can do other than the "rotation over time" method, that would be more efficient for the users so that they could see all the forms of a Pokémon or their stats at any time. Whether we split up articles into multiple articles, or come up with some way to change a picture or the stats at the press of a button, I don't know, but I just want to know why we are still using this method other than that it is a policy. Can an admin please explain to me why we use this method, rather than an other method? --Landfish7 20:44, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

The other stats etc. can be viewed simply by clicking "Show" on the RHS of the page. —darklordtrom 07:41, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Okay, and so the art can be viewed in the gallery on the Bulbagarden Archives. That makes total sense! Thanks trom! --Landfish7 20:37, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Hihidarumma's Active Mode and Meditative Mode

According to BW008, Hihidaruma's forms are apparently called 'Active Mode' and 'Meditative Mode'. XVuvuzela2010X 17:17, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Cleanup Needed?

Half of the templates on the page have borders (the ones with stats etc, like Deoxys) while the other half don't. Also, why are there four different sprites of Spinda? And some cells appear to be split (like Burmy), while others are not (like Pichu). XVuvuzela2010X 17:51, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

The half that don't have borders are showcasing the sprites and if I recall correctly, those were always there and someone suddenly decided to add all the stats and level-up moves. I don't see what's wrong with the Spinda sprites. —♥ Jello^talk 17:57, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Like Jello said, the ones without borders are just to show the differences in sprite while the ones with borders are templates to display things like base stats. The Spinda sprites are there because we're not even going to start uploading the insane multitude of Spinda sprites onto the Archives so the best demonstration we can do of Spinda sprites is between Generation (but perhaps that's useless and should be removed...). The "splitting" of the cells is simply done when the background colours change between the sprites.--MisterE13 21:03, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

I never suggested uploading every spinda sprite, only two variations are needed on the page to show the general spot differences. Having four blanks on the page seems pointless, since they do not show any kind of form diference. XVuvuzela2010X 21:15, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Of course, then we hit upon the problem of which specific sprites to upload. The blank ones are in a matter of speaking less biased.--MisterE13 21:19, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

The sprites chosen would not really matter, just as long as the differences between them are obvious. XVuvuzela2010X 21:33, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Arceus (again)

I had added Arceus to the type pages where Arceus can be that type along with the asterisk and the plate necessary to make it that type (example), but CoolPikachu! disagrees (see here). What do the rest of you say? —Ve№moth ♦ 08:23, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Its types may already be mentioned, since there is that switchy template thing for Arceus, but this is more helpful. Castform also needs to be added. XVuvuzela2010X 10:52, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I think it should be considered form differences: give it a plate, and its type on the status screen changes. However, Judgment is only a Normal-type move, as when Arceus holds a plate it is still listed as Normal-type. --SnorlaxMonster 11:00, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

You (and anyone who see the link to the right) are hereby invited to The Great Arceus Debate. —Ve№moth ♦ 00:57, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

If you don't think 4 pages is enough for a debate then I don't know what is. —♥ Jello^talk 05:53, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Onix

If Porygon's Conversion changes count as a "form difference" why not Crystal Onix from the anime?--Wowy 08:47, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Meloetta

Does Meloetta remain in Pirouette Forme when the battle ends or after switching? -- Pokémon _Questions? -- 18:40, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

No. And this is kind of a Forum Question--Purimpopoie 18:43, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

It is not a forum question, the way that the article was worded implieds that Meloetta remained in Piroutte form outside of battle. XVuvuzela2010X 18:55, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Kyurem

The names of its forms was confirmed so can we add them?Badwolf1234 01:29, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Arbok concept arts

Where do those come from? --Maxim 20:56, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

They come from a Japanese Pokémon handbook. It included several other concept arts, like other kinds of Shellder attached to Slowbro and Poliwhirl's internal anatomy. |) u |( e ® 23:38, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Wow, could you upload the artworks from this book? It's a super-obscure stuff. I'm sure that no one else here has it. --Maxim 08:52, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Even write an article on it if you can. This sounds like it could have some very interesting info. --SnorlaxMonster 11:55, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Kami trio

Someone add the Reijuu Formes for the Kami trio.

• 641Tornadus-Reijuu.png

  Tornadus

• 642Thundurus-Reijuu.png

  Thundurus

• 645Landorus-Reijuu.png

  Landorus

--PenblooeR 00:19, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Also, is it worth mentioning that the three formes seem based o n three gods of the Aztec mythology? Tornadus seems to be based on Huitzilopochtli (hummingbird), Thundurus on Quetzalcoatl (feathered serpent) and Landorus on Tezcatlipoca or Tepeyollotl (jaguar).

question

The article says that "Unown was the first known Pokémon which had visual differences between individuals of the species."

However this isn't entirely true as Shellder is technically the first. While not to the same extreme as the Unown, Sheller who are attached to Slowpoke (or more specifically their evolutions) have different visual appearances compared to regular Shellder.

Shouldn't this be changed? Yamitora1 05:25, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Since the attachment to Slowpoke causes an evolution, I think Shellder should be considered to evolve as well. --SnorlaxMonster 05:59, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Then the part about the Unown should be changed. Shelder was the original shape shifter (no offense Dito) and the Unown are stealing the credit.

I also agree that the Shelder + Slowpoke should be considered an evolution on the Shelder end as well, but that's a pretty large mine field to navigate. Yamitora1 16:03, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Shellder

SnorlaxMonster, the Pokédex still calls the being attached to Slowbro or Slowking a Shellder. It is a Shellder in a form that is not the default one. We could say that Ditto should also be excluded since it's just one isolated case (Duplica's Ditto) and the Pokémon it transformed into only had it's face changed. Will a complete transformation like Shellder's be excluded because of the saying of an Anime character? If the games say it is a Shellder, won't they have priority over the anime? Please undo it. |) u |( e ® 05:45, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

In my opinion, Ditto and Shellder turn into separate species. Ditto, while still a ditto, turns into a different Pokémon nonetheless while shellder evolves into a different species (Slowbro). Unown are the first one to have distinct differences of the same species.--ForceFire 05:51, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

The Pokédex does not consider the Shellder attached to a Slowbro as a different species. It is still a Shellder, and can even be detached someday. |) u |( e ® 06:04, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

I have to say that I now agree that the Shellder is still a Shellder, not evolved after reading the Shellder Article. You see, I have a good memory, but I forgot that even though it's changed, in the anime the Shellder still pronounces it's name "Shellder" even with Slowbrow's tail shoved down it's throat. Add to that and the fact that indeed the articles do refer to Shellder as Shellder no matter what.

Many Pokémon have different forms when they come or inhabit different places. Shellder just happens to like to inhabit parts of Slowpoke.

With that said, it is still a Shellder and should be placed back into the article and given the title that Unown is cashing in on. Yamitora1 15:54, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

This topic is getting old. In a sense, Shellder evolves with Slowpoke. It's not a form change, it's an evolution. If it was just a form change, Slowpoke would still be a Slowpoke, but with a big carnivorous shell on its tail. But the fact that it is the lone cause of Slowpoke's evolution into Slowbro, then it is evolution. Oh, the Pokédex says it can fall off? In theory, maybe it could. But it never would, because that would be devolution, which doesn't happen in the games. Not to mention, you don't even NEED a Shellder in the games to evolve Slowpoke. If it was a form change, it would be able to change back in-game without any issues, or arguments. Like Shaymin for example, you need the flower. But it can change back. If it were an Unown or Shellos case, it wouldn't need to change at all. Shellder would just be one or the other. But they're not.

P.S. If Shellder can fall off, then Indian Elephants exist in Pokémon.

^★Jo the Marten^★ ಠ_ಠ♥ 08:05, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

You can't assume something only because you haven't seen it, you don't need to drink poison to know that it kills. I assume Indian Elephants exist in Pokémon, because the games told me that the Pokédex was made by serious researchers, like Professor Oak. And if we can't (yet) make the Shellder detach, it's our problem, it doesn't mean the Pokédex is a lie. I'll trust Pokédex entries a thousand times more than "common sense". It's not up to us to decide. |) u |( e ® 17:05, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

P.S.: If something should be removed, it's Spinda, Arceus, Genesect and Dialga. Those are not different forms, only their colors (or patterns) change (Dialga's tail can change size naturally). Not to mention Pichu. |) u |( e ® 17:11, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

People calm down, its the internet. I forget which rule that is since all i can remember is rule 63 and the one that destroys people's favorite childhood cartoons.

Shellder is still Shellder. Slowbro is the only one who evolves, and he even says Slowbro. Shellder on the other hand says Shellder. Pokémon See N Say: The Slowbro says, Slowbrow, the Shellder says, Shellder. Also in the anime this happens despite having a tail down it's throat. Plus Prof Westwood still refers to Shellder as Shellder, and refers to the evolution problem and the Shellder Puzzle. Also when Slowpoke began to evolve, he said Slowpoke, not Slowpoke and Shellder was starting to evolve. "Slowpoke evolved into a Slowbro, and Shellder changed into a spiral shape. Shellder is mentioned to be Shellder in Slowbro's and Slowking Pokédex entries, and the anime.

Also, whenever a Pokémon ITSELF evolves, it no longer addresses itself as it once did. Despite similar lettering Pikachu does not say Pichu and neither does Raichu. Have you ever heard a Raichu say Pika or Pichu? Shellder can only evolve with a water stone, and it only evolves into Cloyster. Cloyster say Cloyster, Shellder say Shellder and Shellder on Slowbro's tail say Shellder and not Slowbro, Slowshell, Shellbro or Shelldro.

This is a different form for Shellder, and so is the one on Slowking's head. Yes Slowpoke can evolve without Shellder in the games, but lots of things are different in the games than the anime. Also the original games came out over a decade and a half ago on a FOURTH GENERATION 8-BIT HANDHELD SYSTEM. Back then you could only fit so much stuff on those dinosaurs, its amazing how they were even able to fit 151 different Pokémon, with multiple moves and other things onto one little tiny cartridge. It leaves the mind boggled. Besides, back then, despite all the stuff they fit into the game, they couldn't put everything in and they didn't think a lot of things through either. You ever notice how Game Freak always shows themselves as party loving college kid programmers in the games? Might not be so far off the mark given how they had so many mistakes in the games, and while less in newer games still happen. Yes I know in new generations certain Pokémon like Mantyke and Mantine need another Pokémon to evolve, but that is now. They've had a decade an a half to think of new things, and the technology has improved 2000 fold and we're only in the 8th generation of Nintendo's innovative handhelds.

It would be one thing if Pokémon only came out yesterday and these evolution inconsistencies existed, but Pokémon and its games have been around for about 16 years, that's over out half my entire life and many of the Admins on here. In all that time I have rarely seen the franchise go back and fix the flaws of previous generations outside of a few remakes which only removed things like Ghost pcs. They could easily make it where in the next game you need a shellder in the party to evolve Slowpoke, but they haven't and I bet 80% of that is a mix of not wanting to and not needing to for Nostalgia reasons. I guarantee you if they did fix the Slowpoke thing, then many fans would strike back in protest. All Nintendo and Game Freak can do is make the anime and games, and try to not repeat their mistakes and form a consistent and correlate cannon structure for their product.

I don't know what's in the water around here making everyone uptight, but it's not healthy and unnecessary. Yamitora1 18:48, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

I'd just like to say; not in a rude way, or anything, just honest; the next time you post a message, could it please not be 5 paragraphs long? Half of that message wasn't even on topic. Also, no one is angry here. Not a one. I'm not, Duke's not. The argument that Shellder is its own separate Pokémon when on a Slowbro/king has just been made several times before, and it starts to lose its shine over time, to the point it just becomes repetitive and dull. There was once a big project to label all Slowbro and Slowking as also having Shellders, but it was shot down because of how tedious it was, and the scale of the debate. I'm someone who doesn't really count the Shellder. I mean, I know it's there. But that's like counting the Remoraid on a Mantine. A few times, it does count (Gold's Mantine for example) but overall, it doesn't. The anime likes to emphasize the Shellder, and it's also made the point of Spoink receiving a pearl from Clamperl, but you don't need it in the games. It's easier just to have Slowbro be Slowbro, and normal Shellder be Shellder who evolves into Cloyster. ^★Jo the Marten^★ ಠ_ಠ♥ 19:14, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Well I wasn't here for those past arguments. I'm still new here and to Wikis in general, I never wanted to get sucked into drama like this...good going on my part. As for half my post "being off topic," I posted what I thought was relevant since it seemed like everyone was bringing in arguments from other arguments. I had to post multiple things to address the multiple issues that were being laid out on the table.

The Point is, Shellder deserves to be on this article, the rash removal is what started this all, at least this time anyway. I don't know why there must be so much fuss, all i ever brought up was that Shellder should have the title that was given to the Unown. Then Shellder got removed and upon reasing its article my POV on its removal changed. As long as the games/anime refer to it as Shellder it remains a Shellder and its different shells are different forms even if they are brought on by Slowpoke's evolution. Look at it this way, Slowpoke is Shellder's Gardina Flower on steroids. And Shellder is Slowpoke's Waterstone on steroids. nOne gains an evolution, the other a new shell/home/host.

I understand it can get tiresome, but you can't take your frustration out on everyone who brings it up. It's going to happen again and again until a Shellder falls off a Slowbro and is shown to revert to its old shell and/or Slowbro to Slowpoke. Also it'll keep happening until A Shellder falls off Slowking and he goes Derpy Hooves on us while the Shellder waits for it to pick it up and put it back on. Yamitora1 20:17, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh my Arceus! We were just debating, hehe. I'd never be upset with Jo The Marten, she's one of the people that keep this wiki going at its best. And even the guy who removed the section is someone I really admire, that's why I asked him to please revert it.

Jo, I didn't know about the past arguments as well, but I believe this case is different. This article has two main sections, one for the major and one for the minor form differences. As long as Shellder is kept in the second section, with the two points of view discribed (as I incuded), it should be left there. |) u |( e ® 21:07, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

I admit I might have misread the argument at the start. Whenever I see Shellder, my mind instantly thinks back to people arguing that Shellder is its own Pokémon when Slowbro evolves. Umm...lemme think...obviously it changes shape when it helps a Slowpoke evolve, so that's enough for a partial form change..but I think major should just include those where it's permanent and solitary (Unown, Wormadam, Shellos), then minor if it needs some kind of an influence (Burmy, Ditto, Shellder, etc.) About the falling off part of the Pokédex, if it were to fall off, who's to say it would turn back into our common image of Shellder? It could just stay in that form forever. But we don't, and probably won't ever know. It's just something not ever shown, unfortunately. ^★Jo the Marten^★ ಠ_ಠ♥ 21:17, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Well whatever the case, I think we can all agree this is solved....for now *plays stereotypical dramatic Soap Opera music*

But seriously, all we can do as editors and/or fans is try to do our jobs to the best we can with whatever info Nintendo and/or Game Freak gives us. The article isn't perfect, but neither is the info we're stuck with working with but we can still try. Yamitora1 21:33, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

I believe the best criteria to differ major and minor is the new "Forms" button in the Pokédexes. If you open a Pokémon's page, tap the button and something besides Male and Female appears, it has official differing forms. Otherwise, they must be shown, but separately.

They could also be differed by the ones that are inherent to the Pokémon (like Burmy and Deoxys) and the ones that are dependant of an Attack or Ability (like Meloetta or Castform). But the first criteria is way better. |) u |( e ® 21:51, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

That is a very solid point, and if I could like comments here, I'd like that one. ^★Jo the Marten^★ ಠ_ಠ♥ 22:02, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Hide tables

I think it's unnecessary to have all those tables in the "In other languages" section exposed. I tried to make it hidable by adding class="expandable" to each Pokémon, but it didn't work. Can someone help me? |) u |( e ® 05:13, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Ask Jo, she's HTML savvy and I'm sure she'll be able to help and will agree. I also think they look a little ugly out in the open like that Yamitora1 05:17, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

I can set it up (although expandable/collapseable code is very weird for some reason), but I don't think it's necessary. They're all at the bottom of the page and out of the way. Something else we might consider is moving them all to each section (so put Sky Forme's IOL section under the "Shaymin" section). --SnorlaxMonster 05:51, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Split proposal

Recently there has been significant expansion of the "Other form differences" section. They really are not form differences, and I suggest that we break them off into a page titled "Variant Pokémon". This would allow all articles in the category Variant Pokémon as well, including a main article link to this one. --SnorlaxMonster 05:51, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Good idea, it would be good to split, but not to "Variant Pokémon". This term already covers several pages (mainly TCG-related) that depict things that can be applied to every Pokémon, like being owned by somebody, being a Pokémon-EX or a Shiny, Shining or ☆ Pokémon. I believe that what makes the ones in this article different, is that they have characteristics that no other Pokémon has.

What about "Physical differences" or "List of Pokémon with physical differences"? |) u |( e ® 06:21, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

I still think that the title of "Variant Pokémon" is appropriate, and should cover differences within the Pokémon world, not differences that only exist for TCG mechanics. We could create a "Variant Pokémon (TCG)" category (a lot of TCG stuff does that anyway) then just put in a main article link to that category. --SnorlaxMonster 06:27, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Then, you have my support! |) u |( e ® 06:34, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Ditto transforming into Spinda

What happens when a Ditto uses transform on a Spinda. Does it copy the Spinda's markings, or does the marking its have generate from its own personality values? Why isn't this mentioned in the article? Yamitora1 23:53, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

It copies the Spinda's markings, i. e. its personality value. This isn't mentioned because it's not relevant. |) u |( e ® 03:38, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Kami trio abilities/obtaining the Reflecting Mirror

There are a few details about the Kami trio's Reijuu Formes that, to the best of my knowledge, are untrue. The first is the bit about hidden abilities. It was my understanding that the Reijuu Formes had the same abilities regardless of where they were obtained, and the hidden abilities were only obtainable by changing the Radar-caught kamis back into Keshin Forme (like how Altered Forme Giratina can have Pressure or Telepathy, but Origin Forme always has Levitate). The second is the part about how to obtain the Reflecting Mirror. It states that a Landorus from the Dream Radar is required to obtain the Mirror. I don't recall anyone ever saying it had to be Landorus specifically; I thought any of the three kamis could be used.

Again, I'm not 100% sure on this which is why I didn't edit the article; I'm only going by what other reliable people (particularly Serebii) have said. If anyone can provide some confirmation either way, it would be appreciated.--♪ Radio Rebel ♪ - Reject the status quo! 06:06, 17 June 2012 (UTC)