Talk:List of Pokémon by availability

Hi there!

If you know a fix that needs to be made, go right ahead and fix it: this page isn't (or oughtn't be) protected. But if you can't fix it, for example because a protected template is broken, please still report it here! --Eskay 09:41, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Radar

Ought we made those available by Radar alone be "Ra"? It'd be easy enough to add... TTEchidna 00:40, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Glow ahead. Θρtιmαtum♏_Talk|Links 00:48, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

I think the templates need to be changed before we can add stuff like "Ra" for Radar, and we probably need a "W" for Walker. Also, what about swarms in HGSS? They're currently listed as "C" but shouldn't they be "S"? Dragoness 08:09, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

The swarms have now been marked, thanks. What's a good plan for changing the template? --Eskay 09:58, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Disponibility for Hoenn and Sinnoh Sound

Put disponibility for Hoenn and Sinnoh Sound, please!--Ash 22:21, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Huh? I don't follow. I'm pretty sure "disponibility" is availability, but what are Hoenn and Sinnoh Sound? (Was under HGSS heading) --Eskay 09:41, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps this is what Ash is looking for? It looks like the already existed when I made this post, but shouldn't it have its own icon? --Enervation 03:13, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Pruned

I've pruned this talk page of resolved issues, as of this timestamp. With thanks to LaprasBoi, ht14, and JDigital, for adding issues which I claim that I've resolved. --Eskay 09:41, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

If we want an archive page or something, it's certainly possible to restore one from the history. --Eskay 10:18, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Black and White

Looks like it is possible to catch some, but not all, earlier-generation Pokémon again? So we'll need to extend the templates for the earlier sections to allow input of B&W data. Also a potential opportunity to extend the template functionality as discussed above under Radar. --Eskay

We may want a third column for Dream World availability, if that's stable, per discussion at Template_talk:Availability. --Eskay 20:01, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Also remember that there's something new besides the Dream World: the PokéShifter . - unsigned comment from EzekielMaple (talk • contribs)

What's the point of having things like Poké Transfer and Pal Park if they aren't used? They seem close enough to trade anyway. Also, what if the Pokémon can be obtained with more than one method. For example, Qwilfish can be obtained in both rippling water (catch) and the Pokémon Dream World.

Adding Pokéwalker info

Since Dream World info is planned to be added, and it is not strictly part of the games, how come there's no mention about adding Pokéwalker info? Blueapple128 04:01, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, I don't believe that the Pokémon Dream World, the Pokéwalker, and events are truly in-game, so I'm proposing a move to List of Pokémon by availability. --Enervation 03:18, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Event Pokémon inconsistency

I was under the impression that Ev stood for in-game event (GS Ball, Navel Rock, Flower Garden, etc). However, the chart lists Mewtwo as Ev in Black and White, where there is no in-game event for Mewtwo. Does Ev now stand for any Pokémon obtained in an event download? If so, there's a hell of a lot of editing that needs to be done to the Gen II, Gen III and Gen IV sections to reflect all of the event downloads that were released for them, too (including releases by Toys R US, Gamestop etc).

I don't mind which way it is (although I'd prefer the former). It's just the lack of consistency that's confusing. Pacter 17:03, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Cleanup.

Is it just me, or does it really needs a cleanup? The legend is getting slightly messy. Marked +-+-+ (talk) 15:37, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

I agree, and I have some ideas for it:

I don't see anyone on the page marked with a P or PS, so we should just get rid of that and denote all transfers with T since it's basically the same thing.
Dream World should have it's own column under Generation V, that way we can simply write C, E, and B under it.
Snagged Pokemon in Colo/XD could be marked Sn so that it won't be confused with Swarm, or just use C since there's hardly any difference.
Since we have Dream Radar marked I think it would also be appropriate to add a W for Pokewalker exclusive Pokemon in the HG/SS columns.
The event Pokemon are a mess. I think we should only use Ev to denote the typical Event Pokemon as well as any Pokemon found through an in-game event that is triggered by either an event item or presence of another event Pokemon. I can't even verify many of the Pokemon currently marked, some information simply seems lost to history.
I've never found evidence of Mew being released at any event during Generation II so it'd have to be traded from a Generation I game that received it.

So those are just my main issues. If nobody objects, I'll start work on improving it soon. EV Love (talk) 23:01, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, Mew was distributed here, but you can't see it due to limitations. --Abcboy (talk) 01:26, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Don't forget to roundy it too. --Abcboy (talk) 04:44, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

It's bad idea to replace Snagging with C, as C is used for Poké Spot Pokémon. Also deleted Pal Park, as nothing uses it (and aside from event Pokémon, the only that could use that are Regis). Marked +-+-+ (talk) 15:10, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Okay well I tidied up, fixed a few errors and added Pokéwalker info. I might start on the Dream World column soon since in places such as here it has it's own box with a pink styling, so a column to match that will do. EV Love (talk) 04:29, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Need help with that? I could add it for you. --Abcboy (talk) 04:45, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Yeah go ahead, remember to change the Avail template for each gen. EV Love (talk) 18:27, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Confused about the DW header in table. When it should be C and what about Dream World markings for Pokémon from BWB2W2? Marked +-+-+ (talk) 17:29, 14 November 2012 (UTC) PS. For the sake of Distortion World, why Dream World has W and WE? These are for POKÉWALKER. Okay, Ev and EV are one thing, but this? This is obviously wrong. Marked +-+-+ (talk) 10:58, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Everyone found in Dream World is found in the same way, it makes no difference between BW and B2W2. And once we finish updating the column, all the DWs, DWEs and DWBs will be gone. EV Love (talk) 05:30, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

It does make difference. For instance, you cannot catch Duosion here with original games. You have to connect with sequels. Also Froslass has WE on Dream World, for no reason, it's not visible when editing, only when viewing.Marked +-+-+ (talk) 13:18, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Oh okay, I see. Well done. The article looks a lot better now. Any more ideas are welcome. EV Love (talk) 18:13, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Maybe Pokéwalker header? Marked +-+-+ (talk) 18:31, 23 November 2012 (UTC) PS.Okay, I did that for Generation I, planning for other, except some of Pokéwalker mons are exclusive to event-only areas (such as Sightseeing's Torchic) and not sure how to mark these. Marked +-+-+ (talk) 20:05, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Mark them as Ev like the others. And make the column header PW so that it's not so wide. EV Love (talk) 03:01, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Okay. Also, change the in-game event Pokémon to Ev? Marked +-+-+ (talk) 11:36, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

I think I like how it is now, leaving the in-game ones as EV and external ones as Ev. Or perhaps to avoid confusion, in-game events could be marked IE or something.EV Love (talk) 04:33, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Somewhat version-exclusives?

For example, Registeel is only in Black 2, but via Key System communications with White 2, can be obatained in White 2. Regice is vice-versa. Should this fact be included or left as it is? --Abcboy (talk) 10:53, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Tauros in Dream World

The list doesn't have anything in the Dream World column for Tauros even though they can be caught there. I'm not sure what letter to put in, so can someone else correct this? Pokemega32 (talk) 05:30, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Riolu also. Pokemega32 (talk) 05:32, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

A few propositions

This article is getting quite complicated and hard to follow, and some parts don't quite make logical sense. I came up with a few suggestions on how to improve the article, but some of them are a little drastic so I wanted everyone else's input before I made any edits:
1) Handling Event Pokémon:

Looking at the article right now, it says that Ivysaur in GSC can be obtained by evolving an event Bulbasaur. This is quite hard to imagine; GSC events are notoriously hard to get and not thoroughly documented. It is much more likely for one to get Ivysaur simply by trading from RBY.
Raichu from Yellow is even crazier; its obtaining method is listed as obtaining an event Surfing Pikachu and then evolving it by Thunderstone (since it doesn't have the starter Pikachu's ID number). The number of people on Earth who have done this probably can be counted on one hand, if that.
There is a lot of cluttering involving the labels "EV", "Ev", "EvE", "EvB", etc. Is this necessary?
I propose that a single label, "EV", be used to denote event-exclusive Pokémon, and nothing else. Do we really need a precise distinction between direct distribution (ex. Keldeo) and in-game event (ex. Newmoon Island)?
Under this label, only those Pokémon unnecessary to obtain the Diploma would ever receive the "EV" label. There might be a few exceptions for corner cases like Ho-oh, Lugia, Phione, Zorua, and Zoroark, but all other Pokemon should be listed under "T" if they are not normally obtainable in that game. For example, what's more likely: getting a Bulbasaur in Gen V through an event, or getting it by trading one from HGSS?

2) Handling the Pokéwalker and Dream World columns:

Much of these columns don't make sense. They are not games in the same sense as the main series or Colo/XD, and the idea of trading or evolving Pokémon within them doesn't seem right.
I propose that these columns are completely removed, and their contents merged with the main series columns.
Pokéwalker-exclusive Pokémon should be given "Pw", "PwE", or "PwB".
To perhaps merge some labels, both Dream World and Dream Radar-exclusive Pokémon should be given "Dr", "DrE", or "DrB", with "Dr" standing for "Dream". Again, these are for Pokémon exclusive to the side game, and should not be used if the Pokémon is obtainable normally.

That second one might be controversial, and I'm definitely open to other opinions. How does this sound? Blueapple128 (talk) 04:47, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

I agree with you with the Event Pokémon part: this change would be very useful for whose want to get the Diploma, p.e. IMHO only events-EXCLUSIVE pokémon should be marked as Ev/EV/EVB ecc ecc. Do we need someone's authorization to work on this change? Fosco Corazza 13:49, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

I feel like the Pokéwalker availability should be treated the same way as with Dream World (lowercase letters: so, for Duskull, it'd be "c" instead of "C", and Dusclops would be "e" instead of "E") since the concept seems to be the same anyway. ^ht 14 17:48, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

As far as I know, the lowercase is for Pokémon who appear only with one pair, but not the other. Uploader (talk) 16:46, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

You mean as in doesn't appear in the main series but appears in Dream World/Pokéwalker? The example I gave is the only way by which they can be obtained in HGSS. ^ht 14 17:26, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

No, the lowercase is reserved for DW for Pokémon who appear only when connected with BW (non-Unova) or B2W2 (Unova)... at least that's how I understand it. Uploader (talk) 17:35, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

"I feel like the Pokéwalker availability should be treated the same way as with Dream World." I mentioned this because it just seems to make sense considering the way Pokéwalker works. ^ht 14 17:37, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Mistakes

Uploader, you can get Torchic as a gift and you should change it to Ev and EvE for its evolved forms. The rest of the Pokémon, Stunky can be captured in the wild and you must change it to C and E for its evolved form, Finneon is not caught in both versions and you have to trade for it so change it to T in the X version box. You had found so many mistakes that other users need to fix this. Cinday123 (Talk) 11:16, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

I derped Finneon, forgot about Torchic and didn't know about Stunky. (I might also need to add the note for evolutions of DW exclusives, just for clarifying.) Uploader (talk) 11:21, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

You better check other pages (such as Kalos routes and events) and Serebii but do not steal and copy any information from Serebii while editing. Cinday123 (Talk) 11:52, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Another mistake

Tranquill can be caught in Friend Safari, you should change it to C, you breed Pidove, you better change to B and for Unfezant you evolve from Tranquill then change it to E, but only in the Friend Safari boxes. Cinday123 (Talk) 22:53, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Gonna do a rewrite

Given that this page's source isn't even loading for me, I believe it is time for the article to have a rewrite. I'm going to work on writing up new templates (which would behave very similarily to these; mainly just setting default values), followed by redoing the entire list, using the data set I have at this time (thanks to user mew/vulpix on IRC for getting the current source). So as to not destroy the article in it's current form, I'm going to be doing this in userspace, User:TruePikachu/LoPbA, but please keep your edits on this page (I'll run through a diff to get my version updated before contributing it to mainspace). --TruePikachu (talk) 22:43, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Fixed link, that's what I get for not previewing... --TruePikachu (talk) 22:44, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Two Mistakes

I've been verifying this article column by column and am currently on Gen III. However, I've been unable to edit this article for some time now because it always times out on me. But if anyone is able to, there's two things to fix:

Granbull should be marked as S for Colosseum and T for XD.
Duskull should be marked as S for XD.

I'll report any additional findings. EV Love (talk) 04:06, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Alternatives...

This page is rather difficult to maintain currently. It doesn't save well. We should probably look for some alternative ways of presenting the information...

Not using templates at all (or ifs and switches) might speed it up. I just created a user page of the Generation I table from this page if it weren't using templates. When everything was pretty much optimized as well as it could be, the page came in at about 190,000 bytes. That's enough to put it second on the list of long pages on the wiki, and if you added the other generations, it'd easily top that list. In other words, perhaps that wouldn't be the best option, especially if we keep trying to add games into the future, eternally bloating this one page.

The other alternative is to split it by generations. The question is, which way? Put simply, we can split it so there's one page for each generation column on this page currently or we can split it so there's one page for each generation section of this page currently. The latter's easiest to do; just put each section on its own page. But if you want to know the availability of Pokemon, you probably want to know it over the whole generation. Of course, if you split it by columns, you kind of lose perspective, especially if a Pokemon isn't available at all in the given generation. (...I have a thought that we could perhaps add a column that links the most recent previous generation a Pokemon was available in if it isn't available at all in a given generation. For example, Chikorita isn't available in Gen VI, so it would have a link to Gen IV. In general, though, it might just be easier to let people explore whatever Pokemon they need to themselves. They can just visit a Pokemon's page to see all its locations in all the generations easily.)

Having talked it out here, I think I would be in favor of splitting this page by its generation columns. Tiddlywinks (talk) 13:30, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

I was just thinking about suggesting this idea and agree that it's difficult to decide which way to do it. I think it'd be a good idea to do both, although it would require 12 pages assuming columns are split only by generations and the games released during them (thus GCN is part of III, PW part of IV, DW part of V, and FS part of VI). But seeing how many other topics are split into several pages I couldn't see this one being a problem. IMO this is the most useful page on the entire site and I refer to it constantly, so I'd really like to see some changes (as I can't edit it anymore) while still keeping it as convenient as possible. EV Love (talk) 16:05, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

P.S. There is the issue though of every edit being made on one chart having to be made on the other. So if that can't be worked out, then I recommend splitting by columns. If someone needs to see every gen for a Pokemon, they can just go to that Pokemon's article. Or just open all the charts in separate tabs. EV Love (talk) 16:27, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Staff shout-out

This is honestly just ridiculous. At the moment, I'm failing to even load the page, just so I can look at it. Could a staff member even just comment on this page's issues? Are staff aware, is it on the agenda, what? This is a useful page, but it is not up to snuff performance-wise. Tiddlywinks (talk) 16:58, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Tiddlywinks, check the attitude at the door please. Yes, we know there's an issue with the page & we're considering options on how to deal with it. Screaming and yelling over it isn't a prudent course of action. The biggest issue with this page are the templates it consists of. I was doing the math on it just a moment ago:

Generation I rows have 28 availability cells, all with a switch call. At 151 Pokémon, that's 4228 switch calls.
Generation II rows have 24 availability cells, all with a switch call. At 100 Pokémon, that's 2400 switch calls, 6628 total.
Generation III rows have 21 availability cells, all with a switch call. At 135 Pokémon, that's 2835 switch calls, 9463 total.
Generation IV rows have 14 availability cells, all with a switch call. At 107 Pokémon, that's 1498 switch calls, 10961 total.
Generation V rows have 8 availability cells, all with a switch call. At 156 Pokémon, that's 1248 switch calls, 12209 total.
Generation VI rows have 3 availability cells, all with a switch call. At 70 Pokémon, that's 210 switch calls, 12419 total.

At over 12000 switch calls, it's unsurprising that the page finally completely imploded with the addition of Generation VI. Gen VI added about 2157 switches to a severely lag-ridden page already containing over 10000 switch calls. This is a huge issue, and is going to require a significant amount of planning to fix and prevent the issue from happening again. Please, have some patience. - Kogoro - Talk to me - 17:47, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

What attitude? If you mean "ridiculous", I was using that for the page, not staff. I specifically asked for staff comment because there's been none on this talk page. I thank you for remedying that. It's good to know staff are aware and considering. Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:56, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Trying to edit the page statement

I'm just trying to edit the statement about what this table lists in order and I keep getting an HTTP error. I'm kind of worried, because I think I left an error last time I edited that statement and now I can't edit it to make "Dream World" a link. I know how to do so, but it won't let me save. ZHODY (talk) 19:43, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

This is likely related to the unresolved issue above. We'll do our best to get the problem back onto the front burner and taken care of as soon as possible. --Pokemaster 97 19:53, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Still unable to edit page

It's been months and I still can't edit or even look at the page without going to Google and viewing it Cached.Blob55 (talk) 18:53, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire

Can update with availability from the currently or better suggestion is divided by generation this article? --HoopsterJohn (talk) 00:42, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Hidden Pokémon in ORAS

When I updated the page, I just marked them all as "catch". I think that the hidden Pokémon are most like the Poké Radar, which are all marked with "catch", and not as much like swarm, which got its own designator. Does anybody think the hidden Pokémon are distinct enough that they should get their own designator? --Abcboy (talk) 19:52, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Phione

In the trivia, Phione does not require Manaphy. It is readily available in My Pokémon Ranch. ~ By Caroline under Bulbagarden ~ (talk) 16:33, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

"S" in XD/Colo?

Snagging shadow Pokémon in XD/Colosseum should not be distinguished from catching Pokémon in other games, especially not using the same letter as "Swarm." If it's to distinguish between catching a Pokémon at a Poke-spot in XD versus snagging a Pokémon, then "S" should be used there to mean "spot" because the Poke-spot mechanic is more similar to the "Swarm" mechanic. - unsigned comment from MeNowDealWithIt (talk • contribs)

Perhaps to compromise, we could use "Sn" instead? ^ht 14 14:04, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

My point is that snagging and catching in grass should not be distinguished. Adding another type of mark to the list would just make it even more confusing. MeNowDealWithIt (talk) 14:44, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Two Mistakes I spotted in gen 3

First, Didn't Ho-Oh and Lugia become Event-Only in generation 3? As far as I know, (and corroborated on their respective pages on Bulbapedia), both of these birds are unobtainable within any of the Gen3 games. But at the bottom of the article, it says that in Gen3, "all non-event-exclusive Pokémon are obtainable without inter-generational communication". Is this because Ho-oh/Lugia count as "event-exclusive" in this generation? The real question is, do you need Ho-Oh and Lugia to complete the national pokedex in Gen 3?

Second, why are Espeon and Umbreon marked as unobtainable in Gen3? Can't they can be evolved within RSE because those games have an in-game clock? Thanks! - unsigned comment from Atonaltensor (talk • contribs)

In Generation III, Ho-Oh and Lugia are not needed for the National Pokédex diploma and are considered event Pokémon in Generation III due to them being unavailable without event items. (You can also get them from the GCN games, which would also allow you to obtain the two Pokémon without inter-generational communication.)

Eevee can't be obtained in RSE, so you can't evolve Eevee into RSE without trading Eevee from FRLG or directly from Colosseum/XD. "Trading" is ranked lower than event distributions, and as such it's displayed as "event" rather than "trade". --Abcboy (talk) 14:40, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Ah! That makes sense now. Thanks for the clarification :) I was not aware that Trade is ranked lower than event distributions! Maybe there should be a distinction between Trade within the generation vs. inter-generational trade? Either way, I was confused because the table cell's background for Umbreon and Espeon were all WHITE for RSE and FRLG, so it made me think these Mon's were totally unobtainable within Gen3 games. But, as you correctly state, they are obtainable with trading within the generation. Thanks again. Atonaltensor (talk) 20:20, 25 May 2016 (UTC)