Talk:DexNav

People've been saying about existence of platinum crown that apparently is for catching every Pokémon that can be caught, including post-National. Eridanus (talk) 15:02, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Search Function/Hidden Pokemon

I'm pretty sure that the hidden Pokemon show up on any tiles by themselves besides pokemon that can only be caught by fishing. Tsigma6 (talk) 03:43, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Unown sprite pattern trivia

I'm not sure if this should be noted here or on the Unown page, but in the DexNav display, the sprite changes. You see the first Unown I caught was a 'N' Unown, now I failed to see what the sprite was right after the encounter since I caught a 'B' Unown straight away (like a few steps and then bam, another encounter) When I went to use the DexNav, the 'B' sprite was in use. However, I just caught a A Unown and now the DexNav Sprite is an 'A' Unown. So it goes to reason that the Sprite defaults to the closest (alphabetically) sprite to 'A' possible. This might need further testing, but it still in interesting the sprite changes based on the form(s) encountered and/or caught. Yamitora1 (talk) 19:27, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Detector Mode

A Ranger on Route 119 describes the reactive magnifier/scope function as "Detector Mode". But given how this article is worded, I can't for the life of me make heads or tails of where that falls under. Kai * the Arc Toraph 18:24, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Search Level

Someone just added that the search level is a "red herring". This is incorrect, but I don't know how best to correct it. From what I've found, at least for lower search levels, the search level (which does correspond to the times a Pokémon is encountered) dictates HOW MUCH information about a Pokémon is shared. So, for instance, if your search level is just 2, you CAN still encounter a Pokémon with perfect IVs (just like you might if you weren't even using the DexNav) and you might even encounter something with a hidden ability, or a special item. But the lower the search level, the less information will be shown, up to the point where only the level is shown. So not a "red herring" at all, but an indicator of how much information can be determined in advance. It would probably be best if someone could try to find exactly which levels correspond to another fact or tidbit being added. —Andy^P_K^M_N (talk) 00:51, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Fair point; I was thinking from the point of view of acquiring better Pokémon. Though the search level still doesn't tell you anything new here, since you can plainly see how much information is visible  :) Eevee (talk) 02:10, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

The Japanese guidebook also specifies that the Search Level provides certain benefits, such as increased chances of certain special qualities (and enabling some to appear at all, although that's mostly restricted to very low Search Levels). --SnorlaxMonster 06:09, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Just catch an eevee with charm using dexnav, level 0. i think even with level 0, you still can have hidden abilities, egg moves, iv etc but just lower chance. -Pokeant (talk) 13:05, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

I've done the same thing, but I don't even know for sure that there's a lower chance. I think the difference might just be that it won't tell you all the distinguishing features (first move, ability, held item, etc.) beforehand unless you have a high enough Search Level. But that's not to say the Search Level is useless—it tells you how much information will be disclosed, as well as how many more Pokémon you have to encounter before it starts disclosing more info. —Andy^P_K^M_N (talk) 22:44, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Pokémon with the Swift Swim Ability move more quickly.

While using the DexNav to search for Feebas, I encountered a Feebas with the Swift Swim ability which teleported from tile to tile very rapidly. I surmise that it may be possible certain abilities will cause certain Pokémon to behave differently when encountered. I did notice that a NPC mentions surfing on a Sharkpedo because they are faster, and it is in fact true they move through the water like a, well torpedo. Also diving with Kyogre is not as easy as it is with smaller Pokémon, and its size effects your ability to find hidden objects in corners. So with that said there is prescience that some Pokémon react certain ways in the over world. So could someone help me verify this ability effect on DexNav Pokémon? Also, if one ability effects how Pokémon behave, perhaps other abilities will do the same and we should research and document this. Yamitora1 (talk) 21:28, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

I don't think that abilities have anything to do with how fast mobile Hidden Pokemon move. I was just trying to chain Trapinchs on Route 111 and they occasionally moved very fast like that. But Trapinch doesn't have any speed increasing abilities, so it couldn't have been because of that. Voltdetector (talk) 10:41, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Zigzagoon Potion?

Someone help me understand something... I just got to where I can catch Pokemon, which means I just got the DexNav. I was playing with it, and I caught a Zigzagoon while it was in the "catching progress view". This was the first Zigzagoon I had even seen, and it was a normal random encounter. And I was quite surprised to see it was holding a Potion. The question: why was it holding a Potion? I tried looking through this page, and I didn't notice anything that adequately explains that.

The page mentions special held items for "Hidden" Pokemon (and this lists Potion as one of Zigzagoon's items), but I was just running around, so I don't think I would have been able to get one of them even supposing I just didn't notice it. And a Potion isn't Zigzagoon's one of Zigzagoon's "regular" hold items, right?

Could anyone suggest why it was holding a Potion? Is this page (or some page) perhaps just incomplete somehow? Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:08, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

You didn't use the DexNav at all? It came up randomly, no alert? My best guess is you caught it, it has Pickup, and the RNG somehow randomly gave it the Pickup trigger immediately after the battle as if it was already in your party. If it was sent to the PC, however, I have no idea unless it's a normal held item now.

That said, Zigzagoon hunted with DexNav will now hold Potions. Sometimes. CycloneGU (talk) 01:27, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Yep, if the Potion appears on the DexNav screen when hunting Zigzagoon, then it will have it when you enter into battle with it correctly. Some items can only be collected like this with DexNav instead of the normal method. -Tyler53841 (talk) 01:32, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

@CycloneGU: I actually thought of that too when I first saw it, but no, its Ability is Gluttony.

@Tyler53841: you mean all that's required is that you have the DexNav screen "active"? And also, if you don't have it active, you won't get (for example) a Potion?

The same thing also just happened with my next encounter: I caught a Wurmple holding Bright Powder. (Wurmple I had seen 3 times before (apparently; it said 4 times afterwards).) Are we sure it's even possible to actually catch Pokemon holding non-"DexNav" items? Or are "DexNav" items just the new "wild held items"? Tentacool's X/Y held item is supposed to be Poison Barb, and its DexNav item is also supposedly Poison Barb. Same for Chinchou's item. If we checked all of the X/Y wild held items, would they all (or mostly) be the same as the DexNav items...? (At least for those Pokemon in ORAS.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:34, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

I decided to try throwing the rest of my Poke Balls, and from seven more catches I got 2 Pecha Berries, 1 Bright Powder, 3 Potions, and 1 no-item (one other catch was Poochyena, who doesn't have an item). From seven more catches after resetting, I got 3 no-items, 2 Potions, and 2 Pecha Berries. All of those were done while I just had the "progress" view active. Then I reset and switched to AreaNav, and caught eight more: 1 Potion*, 1 Bright Powder, 2 Pecha Berries, and 4 no-items.

It looks to me like there's nothing "special" after all about the items that Hidden Pokemon can be found holding...

(Someone should also do more such catching/tallying and figure out chances, because they seem to be fairly high. But 22 samples isn't enough to discount luck.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:29, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

The DexNav's "chaining" increases the chances for items, but I haven't found any that are solely on hidden Pokémon (getting a Zigzagoon with Trick at the beginning makes it so much easier). I've no idea if the chaining aspect occurs without the DexNav selected however. glik^glak 02:54, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, Zigzagoon can have Potions when encountered in the wild normally. However, they can also sometimes have Revives, and my assumption was that that was their hidden Pokémon-exclusive item. However, if you can find Zigzagoon normally in the wild (not as a hidden Pokémon) holding a Revive, then I guess they are just normal held items.

Tiddlywinks, are you saying these Pokémon were obtained as hidden Pokémon without using the DexNav, or obtained as normal wild encounters? --SnorlaxMonster 05:55, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

They were normal wild encounters. I was running around the whole time, never trying to sneak around.

I did see a Revive at a later point, but it might have been from a hidden Pokemon; but Wurmple's Bright Powder is equivalent to Zigzagoon's Revive, and I got a few of those. Given what seems to be a fairly high rate of held items, it should be easy enough to test yourself if you can spare a bit of time. Tiddlywinks (talk) 06:05, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Search Level effect

Do search level benefits (the ones that don't just show you more information) have an effect regardless of whether you encounter a hidden Pokemon spontaneously or by "Searching", or only if you actually "Search"? This is currently not entirely clear. Tiddlywinks (talk) 08:32, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure they apply to all hidden Pokémon. --SnorlaxMonster 08:36, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Search level benefits

Alright, so the Benefits table was hidden. I'm gonna put some data here about my experiences re:search level and special attributes. Anyone else may feel free to contribute as well.

So, at question are: high level, egg move as first move, forced/max(?) potential, and Hidden Ability.

At search level 0, I caught a lv13 (high level) Ralts with Shadow Sneak (egg move). Serebii's stat calculator suggests its Sp. Def is 31 and its Speed might be (28-31). So as far as "Can encounter the Pokémon with maximum IVs forced" goes (supposing it means just "one or more" and not perhaps "three or more"), if Speed is indeed 31, then it's fairly likely the IVs were "forced". And no, there was no chain (I was scaring off everyone who didn't have a "!" in the magnifying glass).

That mainly leaves the question of Hidden Ability, and whether search level 4 is required for it. Maybe 3 or more max IVs, too, if you wanna be a stickler about that.

(I also double-checked the "<attribute blah> is shown" search levels and they check out fine.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 00:20, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

I was trying to get a baseline for Hidden Ability occurence at search level 4 so I could try to find out if it happened sooner, but in 500 hidden Pokemon I didn't see any Hidden Ability (or certainly no "!" by Ability). I was just running around, not using the search function...I sure hope that doesn't make a difference. Does anyone have any idea of a minimum search level (even, like, "50") where you've seen a Hidden Ability?

I think I'm not going to try to check when "potential" can be forced. It's just a fair amount of hassle if I can't see the info directly on the Hidden Pokemon screen, and if the chances of it happening are rare, that'd make it even more of a hassle to be sure about one way or the other. Tiddlywinks (talk) 03:07, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Well, I just did a Found Pokemon search and got a result I haven't before (not an HA). In all the 500 SL 4 encounters while I was just running around, every time I saw a high level hidden Pokemon, it also had an egg move. But when I just searched a Wurmple, it came up with just a high level. So I'm pretty sure that means there are /some/ differences between spontaneous hidden Pokemon and searched hidden Pokemon. I guess I'll check searching now then, rather than put it off for down the road... Tiddlywinks (talk) 03:24, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Argh, never mind. I just realized that Wurmple doesn't have any egg moves. I really shouldn't be doing this on Route 101, then, it's too likely to throw off my analysis... Guess I'll head to Route 103. (And I'm totally ready to assume again that search isn't any different from spontaneous...) Tiddlywinks (talk) 03:50, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

You literally ninjaed me there. I was just going to link to Wurmple's breeding table. CycloneGU (talk) 03:51, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Well, I found Hidden Abilities at search level 10. And unless it's something rarer than 1% at search level 5 (and/or 4), I don't think it's possible at those levels. (Even if it is, it's almost not worth mentioning if it's that rare.) Eventually, I might try checking if Hidden Abilities are possible between search levels 5 and 10, but for now I'm just gonna keep moving forward.

I'm getting a bit perplexed by the "potential" rates I'm seeing, though. If I'm doing the math right, there should be an 18.75% chance of randomly finding a regular wild Pokemon with a 31 in one of its IVs. That seems pretty high to me, but I don't know how I'd be wrong. (Six independently random IVs, with 32 equally possible values, should mean the chance of one (any one) of them being 31 is 1/32 * 6.) But the rate I'm seeing for a potential of 1 star (1 IV at 31) is less than that. At search levels 5 and 10, I'm missing 22 and 13 (respectively) 2-star potentials that I'd naturally expect, out of 500 samples each. With samples that size, I think that's a moderately strong discrepancy. Likewise, the natural chance of two 31 IVs should be about 1.5%, but in 1000 samples at search levels 4 and 5, I only saw two 2-star potentials, when I should have seen more like 15 (again, if I'm doing this all right).

The only way I can reconcile this is if, perhaps, DexNav doesn't actually show if the Pokemon has perfect IVs, but rather shows if any perfect IVs were forced. However, since I'm doing this on a more or less new game, it's a little hard for me to check IVs (if only because I've only got enough money to buy a few Poke Balls, which, if I'm unlucky, may not be enough to find a Pokemon that has a 31 IV but that claimed 0 potential). If anyone would like to sink some time into checking that out, just run around looking for--or search up--hidden Pokemon, and catch ones that say they have 0-star potential, and check them at a stats judge. If the natural rate is indeed 18.75% and you catch and check 50, then about 9 of them should have a perfect IV, if indeed potential only indicates forced perfects and not naturals.

FWIW: At search level 10, the rate of 2-star potential clearly outstrips the naturally expected rate, at 9% (give or take randomness). Tiddlywinks (talk) 13:25, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Alright, I've gathered data at search levels 4, 5, 10, 20, 25, 50, 75, and 100, so I'll be adding the results of that into this page in the Search Level section. At each search level, I gathered info on 500 hidden Pokemon. I put the raw numbers at User:Tiddlywinks/Hidden Pokémon attributes in case someone wants to try to analyze it in depth, but one way or another that's a bit beyond me. That also means I'm just going to report the chances of such-and-such occuring "naively".

What I mean by "naively" is, I'm only going to consider the number of times I saw an event and the number of data points I had. If there's actually something else mixed in with those chances (say, perhaps Hidden Abilities don't occur as often alongside 0-star potential), that's for someone else to uncover. Also, I'm mostly just going to round the percent chances to the nearest number, since identifying a reliable pattern in all of this is a difficult task. Tiddlywinks (talk) 15:04, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Source for shiny chaining claim?

"As a chain increases, the Pokémon have a greater chance of having the special attributes that hidden Pokémon can have. The chance of encountering a Shiny Pokémon also increases, estimated to reach a maximum of 0.5% per encounter after 40 chained encounters. There is thus a 50% chance of encountering a Shiny Pokémon in approximately the first 130 encounters of a chain."

This doesn't seem to mesh with my experience (I've seen plenty of people get shinies before turn 40, and a good amount chain for 1000+ turns but not getting anything), and no source is given. A base shiny rate of 1/512 (as in the Friend Safari) which is unaffected by chaining seems to fit my observations better, has this been ruled out? Smooshie (talk) 16:08, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Gender Differences displayed

Should it be noted that Pokémon with clear distinctive gender differences will show up in the DexNav and indicate the gender of the hidden Pokémon?

I first notices this with a shadowed out Pikachu ♀ Silhouette and it seems that the image in the DexNav wether or not it be a Silhouette or actual image will relay the gender of the Pokémon. Yamitora1 (talk) 18:40, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Pikachu

One thing that I noticed in the Safari Zone is that if Pikachu is discovered hidden, its tail in the overworld will always be that of a male Pikachu, even when the Pikachu encountered is female. Wasn't sure where to put it, so I'm putting it here and will let somebody else decide where to put it. Bigpboy (talk) 20:49, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Honestly, that's probably not very notable. Each species of Pokémon only has one overworld image which means nothing with gender differences will show the difference. Litwick96 (talk) 21:23, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Warping speed and based on Pokémon or Level?

While chaining Feebas, I originally believed Swift Swim had some power over how fast a Pokémon in water could warp, however after trying to chain Gyarados I am now under the impression that the Pokémon's level effects its speed. Every time I encounter a Lv 50 Gyarados, it warps very rapidly compared to the normal lv 40. Has anyone else experienced this? Or could it just be something about the Magikarp/Feebas families having some kind of super speed? I mean its no secret the two are nearly identical in many ways. The only big difference is Milotic isn't readily available in the wild like Gyarados is. Yamitora1 (talk) 19:49, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

When I've searched for DexNav stuff, I've seen people in a place or two suggesting that as your chain grows, the "difficulty" (let's call it) of hidden Pokemon goes up. Like, they won't stay around as long and maybe they're more sensitive to your movement and they'll warp faster. Tiddlywinks (talk) 22:52, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

What are the chances of getting a shiny when using the DexNav?

I may be a Pokemon expert but I don't know what the chances are with the DexNav. Does it depend on the chain? Does the chance get higher when the chain gets higher? I may have gotten two Shiny Pokémon with the DexNav before but I really wanna know the chances. Can you guys put a list of chances of getting a shiny, just like you did with the Poké Radar page?

Signed, Deltachaos111two (talk) 10:03, 11 March 2015 (UTC)John

As far as i can tell, same as your chances of encountering one under normal conditions. I've raised my search level with Buneary quite high (I wanted a hidden ability one. I did have a rather large chain too.) without encountering a single shiny Buneary. --Bomyne (talk) 17:56, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Potential

I just checked a Wingull that had 2-star potential at the stats judge, and he told me that it had 3 max IVs. I double-checked with a stat calculator, and it said the same. (Interestingly, the calculator suggested its other stats are pretty atrocious. Supposing it ever matters, in all, they were: 31/2/31/6/5/31.)

There's two ways I can interpret this. Maybe the potential just tells the number of IVs that were forced, meaning the Wingull that I encountered naturally had one perfect IV already. The other possibility is that 2-star potential can mean 2 or 3 perfect IVs, maybe more...

This needs research. Tiddlywinks (talk) 13:02, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

I think the DexNav just tells you the number of forced IVs, but on the other hand I thought it could also have half-stars (or am I misremembering things). --SnorlaxMonster 13:21, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure I've never seen a half-star. That's probably something I would have seen and noted in my big data gathering project above. Tiddlywinks (talk) 13:33, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Shiny Eevee on sixth encounter of the chain!

Hi, I encountered a shiny Eevee on my sixth encounter of the chain while using the DexNav. Believe me, it scared me. Anyway, just like you did with the PokéRadar page, can you put the list of chances depending on the chain? After all, I'm confused with what the chances are in the chain. - unsigned comment from Deltachaos111two (talk • contribs)

No. That information for the PokeRadar was researched. For the DexNav, it is not. Anecdotes do not amount to "proof" of anything. Your options at this point in time are basically to search for a rigorous analysis or start one yourself. Or just wait indefinitely. Tiddlywinks (talk) 19:10, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

As stated above, they seem to be the same chance for shiny in a chain of DexNav as there is for normal chance for shiny. Some people get shinies after only a few encounters, others don't get shinies after a chain of at least 1000 long. --Bomyne (talk) 04:29, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

3-star potential prior to Search Level 25

I encountered a 3-star potential Vullaby at Search Level 21, despite the fact that the article states that it is not possible to encounter such pokémon until Search Level 25. Miyamoto Musashi (talk) 06:58, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Look a closer look at the second table. I'd bet you just got a special case with that boosted level benefit.

As near as I can tell, boosted level is actually sort of a package deal: if you get boosted level, you also have an Egg Move and 1 forced perfect IV, always. So this "package deal", normal forced IVs, Egg Move, and HA all have independent chances of occurring; i.e., they can all occur together (though Egg Move + the package is redundant I guess), potentially giving you "too many" forced IVs.

I've not included anything about this supposed mechanic on the page just because I don't really have absolute proof (though honestly, I do have pretty damn strong evidence I guess). Tiddlywinks (talk) 09:58, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the response, it would be interesting to test this further. You're correct: it had a boosted level. Miyamoto Musashi (talk) 00:40, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

I'm increasingly thinking that this is the case: I just encountered a 3-star potential Absol at Search Level 21 with Egg Move, Hidden Ability, and boosted level. Miyamoto Musashi (talk) 04:59, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Peeko

What is Peeko supposed to be?--Power-Point Panpour (talk) 05:29, 2 January 2022 (UTC) Never mind.--Power-Point Panpour (talk) 05:31, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Hidden Pokemon out of reach

I'm just curious if it'd be worth mentioning in the article that, at least in certain circumstances, hidden Pokemon can seemingly spawn in such a way as to be 100% unobtainable. I noticed this just now being in a secluded area accessed via Dive, but still in view of the main area, and I had a hidden Pokemon spawn in the main area, on the other side of the rocks that prevent you from returning directly (thereby meaning there would be no way to reach the hidden Pokemon, as diving to return to the main area would cause it to disappear)

I didn't think to test to see if the Pokemon would have moved to a spot within the rocks, but it definitely spawned a good ways outside them. I'll try and replicate the situation if I can, although even if it is possible in that one spot it doesn't necessarily mean it would be for every such area. If someone more knowledgeable about DexNav than me can contribute any further insight, that'd be much appreciated! Driftin Soul (talk) 18:20, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Chain Bonus info might be outdated

Source: https://github.com/Bambo-Rambo/RNG-Guides/blob/main/ExtraInfo.md#setting-up-tiny-finder Quote: When (chain length + 1) mod 5 == 0, the chances of getting a nice index, greatly increase. This means that if your current chain length matches one of the following numbers: [4, 9, 14, 19, 24, 29 etc], you are more likely to find what you are looking for. For reference, these are the benefits:

   4 more shiny checks (9 more if chain = 49, 14 more if chain = 99)
   Guaranteed to have an Egg Move
   A +10 Level Boost
   At least 1 perfect IV

(End quote)

Since this info is used in (supposedly accurate) RNG manipulation, I am predisposed to trust this above the currently mentioned info. However, I don't quite feel comfortable making the change myself without some assent - I am hardly an expert on this.

These four more shiny checks when "number" is below 100 sounds a lot like the current article content, where it was presumed to be a random number, but it really is the chain length or a derivative thereof. It also sounds more in line with the shiny bonus chance at levels 50 and 100 than adding 4 checks at random - having 1, 5, 10, 15 non-charmed rolls depending on circumstance instead of 1, 6, 11 +/- 4 chances.

Gloweye (talk) 16:03, 6 January 2024 (UTC)