Talk:Pokémon Master

[01:15:46] <+MrE> Aside from the Legendary issue, it would be impractical for anyone in the anime to capture and maintain 391 different creatures. Unlike the Pokémon games or Pokémon Special manga, in which Pokémon can be stored in suspended animation as computer data - Pokémon in the anime need t be fed and exercised regularly to maintain their health. Such a task would be impossible for anyone to perform alone, or even with many assistants or helpers.
[01:16:04] <+MrE> like a zoo because zoos obviously don't keep hundreds of animals in health :(
- Jshadias 06:17, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

>I very much doubt being a Pokémon Master would entail being a glorified zoo keeper. If that were the case, a would-be Pokémon master's main priority would be to stay at home, buy land, and construct large enclosements, cages, and purchasing vast quantities of food. Not to travel around and battle a handful of Pokémon. - Zeta -- unsigned comment from Zeta (talk • contribs)

Mewtwo Strikes Back definition

I have a Mewtwo Strikes Back DVD. In the special features there is a brief history/summary of the Pokemon franchise. It explains what a trainer is and defines a Pokemon master as someone who has caught one of every Pokemon. I'll post the direct quote later.--SomeoneIKnew 04:58, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

A valid possibility but I don't think that will be how Ash becomes a Pokémon master since the emphasis on catching them all has disappeared. --FabuVinny ^T-C-S 11:18, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

And become damn near impossible. TTEchidna 02:46, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Official Pokémon Handbook definition

Based on the definition of a Pokémon Master in the Official Pokémon Handbook, Ash Ketchum is already a Pokémon Master, since unlike his rival, he does not boast about how great he is. He also cares deeply about his Pokémon, not just uses them to win battles, unlike Gary.--Hitmonlee 20:41, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

That means Gary, Reggie, Jimmy, Marina, and Lance, not to mention a few hundred others, are all already Pokémon Masters.Shadow1337 12:48, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I have a copy of that book, and it does imply that. In the book, it talks about the Elite Four, describing them as "a select group of the best Pokemon Masters in the world." [that is a direct quote, by the way]. That implies that the title is essentially given to elite trainers, or people who have caught a lot of pokemon. And that also goes along with what the Nintendo representative said, that it is open to interpretation. So, I would interpret that the title can be given to anyone that is considered an elite trainer, but that it's not an official title. BlitzSage 23:13, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Soo... Is Cynthia a Pokemon Master?

Ok, the article says that the belief that a Pokémon Master being a League champion has holes in that theory since Ash won the Orange League and never became a Pokémon Master, and that the Elite 4 members of each region, as well as the Champions aren't referred to as such, either.

However, I've been reading up on some threads, and people are claiming that Cynthia was referred to as a Pokémon Master in the Japanese version (or Pokémon League Champion of the world, to be exact), and that DP confirms that in order to be a Master, a trainer must beat the Elite 4 in a tournament, so I was wondering, is this really said, and if so, should the article be edited to mention this fact?

Also, should the mention of beating the Battle Brains be mentioned on there as well? I'm asking since the Battle Brains were stated to be stronger than even the Elite 4/Pokémon League Champion. Weedle Mchairybug 18:10, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

I think that Cynthia would be known as a master. I think we should create a section listing possible masters, like her, Lance, and the members of the Elite Four.BlitzSage 01:14, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes she is. I believe that anyone who is, or has been the Pokemon League Champion, or even an Elite Four member is a Pokemon Master.

The Orange League as composed of Gym Leaders. No Elite Four, with Drake as the strongest player, but still more of a Gym Leader.

It was stated by Lucian that to become a champion, you must conquer a regional tournament, and we have seen how challenging that is in the anime. And on top of that, one must then defeat the Elite Four, and the ones who have battled have shown skills that put all but the greatest trainers to shame. And the reigning champion is even stronger than Elite Four members, as Flint only managed to defeat two of Cynthia's Pokemon.

That hints that Elite Four members and Champions are massively above regular trainers and very likely should be considered Pokemon Masters.User:RagnarokRagnarok 02:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Okay, then why is it that when he beat the Battle Frontier Brains (which were hinted to be around the Elite 4/champion's level), he didn't become a Pokemon Master? Weedle Mchairybug 08:32, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

I don't remember anyone saying Elite Four level. Stronger than Gym Leaders, yes the Frontier Brains were. I'd only put Brandon at Elite Four level, possibly Champion, and that is probably only because of his apparent skill in capturing the Regis. No one ever said the Frontier Brains were Pokemon Masters, just very powerful trainers, at least to my memory. And not only that, Ash's skill varies at times. Like him losing to Trip. With or without Electric attacks, Pikachu's level should have been high enough so that some beginner should stand no chance. Period. So Ash becoming a Pokemon Master anytime soon is unlikely. User:RagnarokRagnarok 10:08, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure Scott mentioned something along the lines of them being around the Elite 4 Level after Ash's battle against Agatha. Weedle Mchairybug 19:44, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Even if that is true, remember how that battle went? Agatha won. Remember the battle with Flint? He destroyed Ash without breaking a sweat. If Flint is anything to go by, the Frontier Brains are yes, better than Gym Leaders, but lower than Elite Four.

Not to mention, Ash beat Brandon by the skin of his teeth. Brandon didn't use his best team, Ash had to use his most experienced Pokemon, Brandon used the Regi he had the least time to practice with, and not only that, Ash lost to him twice. If anything, Ash beating the Battle Frontier was just a cop out.

Bottom line, it doesn't make perfect sense, but all things point to Ash not being a Pokemon Master. User:RagnarokRagnarok 11:28, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Catching Mewtwo

According to my copy of The Official Pokémon handbook, a Trainer becomes a Pokémon Master when they have captured Mewtwo. Is this true? I took it to mean that the Trainer had "mastered" the game, as there is more or less nothing left to do in the original games after you have caught it. Taromon777 13:19, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

I think we should change or add to this section. First of all, it says that if you can defeat Mewtwo then you deserve the title of Master, but I think that it is unclear enough to say that it says you have to capture him to be a master. Also, it calls the Elite Four trainers master trainers. So I don't think it means that you have to capture or even beat Mewtwo to be a master.BlitzSage 01:05, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Alright

I emailed Pokemon.com's mailbag asking for their definition of Pokémon master. I got this response.

I'm very sorry, but the Pokemon Company does not answer questions of this nature.  

It is the intent of the Pokemon creators that such questions be left to the imaginations and interpretations of Pokemon fans, adding more excitment and mystery to the Pokemon universe.

Methinks that this official response merits mention in the article? Missingno. Master wants YOU! Join the Order of the Glitch! (my talk page) 00:40, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

They'll define it eventually. I mean, if they can basically confirm Pikachu's gender right then and there in The Worst Togepi in History, despite the writers/seiyuu's comments about how they deliberately never confirmed Pikachu's Gender so the audience of both genders can connect with Pikachu, the same can happen in regards to not defining what a Pokémon Master is.

Besides, Pokémon.com has made mistakes before, most notably Jessie's Age, as well as claiming the cloaked Pokémon in Pokémon Symphonic Melody was the Red Lightning, which, aside from the fact that it was obviously Mewtwo, when Pokémon Symphonic Medley first aired, Red Lightning wasn't even made yet. Weedle Mchairybug 02:58, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I dont think they will. Personally, I do not think it is a term that is supposed to be defined. I think we could just stick with a general definition, that it means you're a great trainer. I really believe that is what the term is all about. And the fact that they haven't given a solid definition is just proof that that is right.BlitzSage 19:30, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, and correct me if I'm mistaken, but didn't they also say that Pikachu's Gender was never supposed to be revealed? Seeing how they did officially reveal Pikachu's gender, what the writers said or what Pokemon.com said won't matter in the long run (if it did, they definitely would not have revealed Pikachu's Gender in DP142. Weedle Mchairybug 19:35, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Before I forget...again

Yes, this may be speculation, but that is all that we can do to answer the question of what this is. I came up with a definition which fits rather nicely, but still offers lots of room for freedom:

"Someone who accomplishes a great task regarding Pokémon."

Most well-known people (Professors, Champions, Player, etc.) can fall under this category. For example, Oak created the Pokédex, and is the most well-known professor, hence his title of Master. Champions are the best members of the League in their respective areas, which can be hard to do. The Player defeats both a villinous team and the Champion, so they are also a Master. However, you could also consider the Rocket Trio masters as well, as they most likely far surpassed the previous record for number of failed attempts at stealing Pokémon.

Think this is good enough for addition onto the theory list? --TruePikachu 02:37, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

I like that idea, it fits well with the game, but as I mentioned below, I think it's been confirmed in the final Sinnoh League Victors episode. --Nathan2055^talk 17:03, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Champion League?

In the newest dub episode, Cynthia mentions that Ash and Paul might meet up in the Champion League. What exactly is the champion league? My guess is, it's a league for the "best of the best" trainers. Trainers who have won at least 1 regional league. Then, the top trainers have to battle and get 1st place in the champion league, in order to fight against the Elite Four and Chamption. --PokemonTrainerLisa 14:16, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, the final Sinnoh League Victors episode mentions the Champion League again. But it also mentions that Ash will become a Pokémon Master once he defeats a Champion (see section below). --Nathan2055^talk 17:01, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Finally!

The final episode of Sinnoh League Victors mentions, as I said above, that a Trainer must beat a Champion to become a Pokémon Master. The reason this didn't happen in the Orange Islands seems to be because Drake was more of a Gym Leader than a Champion (also, the Orange League worked differently than the other Leagues). --Nathan2055^talk 17:12, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

It still doesn't explain why Ash didn't get it back in the Battle Frontier Saga. For one thing, the Frontier Brain members were implied to be either at least be on the same level as the Elite 4, if not surpassing them or even the Champion, so he technically fought and beat 7 champion-leveled trainers or at least 7 E4-leveled trainers. Weedle Mchairybug 22:00, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

That would make since, but still, they may be leveled that high in the games, but they are more like just stronger than normal Gym Leaders. --Nathan2055^talk 17:48, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, all I know is that Scott mentioned that Ash had more than enough qualifications to challenge the Battle Frontier after he fought against Agatha, which indicated that they were at least around the Elite 4's level. There was also a scene where Cynthia, the Sinnoh champion, was fighting against Palmer, himself a member of the Battle Frontier, indicating they were around that level. Weedle Mchairybug 20:07, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, in fact, I don't believe Ash was able to beat Palmer. --Nathan2055^talk 20:24, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Wait, then how could those guys even call themselves BF Brains? If the majority of them could lose to a 10 year old kid quite easily, with only two actually beating him outright, despite Scott implying that they were at least around the Elite 4 level, they shouldn't even deserve to be called BF brains, since someone at a BF level should not be capable of actually losing that easily to someone like Ash. Weedle Mchairybug 12:30, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

I haven't seen any of Ash's BF battles, but it's not like he simply manged to OHKO all of their Pokémon. If he did, then he should get that title! --Nathan2055^talk 19:22, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Move?

Should this page be moved to Pokémon Master? Throughout the article, it's called Pokémon Master, and I think it just looks better. --Enervation 00:23, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

I think we should. What's the difference beside a capital M, anyway? --☆ヨッシ ー の世界☆ 12:41, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

More Evidence of a Champion League

In DP191 and BW031, more mentioning of a champion league was said. In DP191, Ash says that once he wins the Champion League, he'll become a Champion Master, another word for Pokemon Master. And in BW031, Trip expressed his hopes of winning the Unova League and then the Champion League. The evidence that is shown is now theorized that after a Trainer wins a regional league, they are qualified to be part of the Champion League, and if they win, they officially become Pokémon Masters. However, this theory is questionable since no form of a Champion League took place so far in the Anime. --User:Gabecounts12594 06:52, 12 October 2011 (CST) You're right. I think the script authors just made that up on the spot, the lazy Snorlax. Drakko 22:29, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

In pokemon black and white versions, Cynthia mentions some kind of tournament where the champions from every league gather and see who's strongest. could be worth a thought DimensionBreak Gzig 23:34, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Another Possibilty of The Pokemon Master

Now, in the old games, we could have just put it off as it being a video game, but in some new games, it has been made clear that defeating the Champion does NOT make you a champion yourself. But interestingly, in X and Y, their's an NPC who tells the player they cannot participate until they are stronger than the champion. Could this mean that those who have defeated the Champion are Pokemon Masters? Notable as well, when N defeats Alder in Black and White, he notes that he is "a trainer stronger than the champion himself". In ORAS, an NPC blocks the entrance to the Battle Institute tells the player they must become champion if they want to enter. Anyway, also note that both games where 'stronger than the champion' is used is based on an area outside of Japan.- unsigned comment from ArtistKyurem (talk • contribs)

List of masters?

Should this page include a list of known pokemon masters? Not speculated ones--ones who are actually stated to be a master in some official source. The only ones I can think of now are Red, whom Lance calls a master after his defeat, and as the page states, Lorelai and Lance are both called masters at some point. Bulbapedia's page for Will states that he is a master as well, but this information is unsourced. Xolroc (talk) 20:02, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Every instance of "Pokémon Master" being used should be listed on the page. I think that's better than a list, because a list ignores the context in which the term is used. --SnorlaxMonster 02:22, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

A possibility.

Isn't it possible that a Pokemon master has to consider themselves one along with be given the title?--Pokemonfansuper 18:56, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

If Ash ketchum wins Alola league, does that make him a Pokémon Master?

Ok, i want to clarify if Ash Ketchum wins Alola league or not, Does that make him a Pokémon Master? --Cool Sam (talk) 01:41, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

If it didn't make him a Master when he won the Orange League or even the Battle Frontier (and while the latter isn't a league under any stretch, it DID have Ash fighting against people on par with the Elite 4 in overall skill so it still counts), it won't make him a master upon winning Alola either. Besides, he still needs to face off against Masked King, and aside from that, he still needs to face and beat the Champion League before he can come close to gaining the title. Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 03:12, 19 September 2019 (UTC)