Bulbapedia talk:Project Pokédex/Archive 3

Previous discussions

About external links and fan shrines...

I couldn't help but notice that within the Project Pokedex section, it is mentioned that Pokemon can receive not only wikipedia links but fan shrine links, too.

Now, before I jumped ahead of myself, I checked a few of the obviously more popular Pokemon, like Eevee or Pikachu. You can't go wrong with that. What I noticed is that the only fan stuffs listed is fanlistings, though. While that's something, it is what it is... a list. Granted, Poke-centric (that is, non human) shrines seem to be hard to come by in the 'States for some reason.

So, my question is, what would I have to do to get a fan shrine listed? Does there have to meet certain requirements? Is it necessary that it's a fanlisting? The site is in English, in case you're wondering. I know the ratio of Japanese artsy Poke-centric sites to US ones is extremely skewed in their favor, so I can see where that could be a concern, if a concern at all. --Nidorino 16:56, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I would say in this matter, it's more quality that matters than notability. If you have a site that is good enough to be of interest to someone looking for some sort of information on the Pokémon - go ahead and add it. But if it's something that's low-quality and not useful, expect to see the link removed shortly after.

Also, I would rule that foreign language sites can also be included - but with stricter inclusion standards, at the bottom of the external links list, and with its language included in parentheses so people don't click expecting an English site and get something in a different language. --Pie ^~♪♫ 18:03, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's actually more interesting and for leisure than it is informational. I sorta made it both because I thought the Nidoran line was severely underappreciated and I got a little tired of the thousands of informational Pokemon sites but no fun multimedia ones. I suppose for what it's worth, it'll probably be really nice for any Pokemon fan since there's lots to see and do (for a Nido centric site, it's actually doing really well), I put a lot of work into it as well.

The quality lies in the content, I go all out on what talents I have all for the sake of Nido Pokemon. There's also people who share the same idea, so a lot of contributions have come from people all over, it's probably one of the biggest Nido fan gatherings, which truthfully isn't a hard goal to aspire for considering the Pokemon in question. My main reasoning behind it, though, is that I just think that Nido fans shouldn't be left out of the picture, considering I know how hard it is to find anything interesting about them at all.

So I guess what it comes down to is what one wants. It someone's trying to read hard facts, well, they could do that anywhere. But if someone's looking for something fun and different, that's the goal I want to accomplish.

Would that still be okay?--Nidorino 18:17, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Biology

There's been a bit of controversy over the content in the biology section of Typhlosion's article. It may be an idea to keep an eye over the stuff that goes in that section. --FabuVinny ^T-C-S 23:13, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

... how in the world did we miss that? D: --Pie ^~♪♫ 00:34, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Darn, i want to know what it says lol Broloth 06:42, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Diamond and Pearl Pokéradar

In relation to the Pokeradar in Daimond and Pearl. Should it be mentioned in the Rarity section like Nidoran♀ (Pokémon) or in the Location section like Venonat (Pokémon). Just asking so that there can be some consistancy in the articles. Pterodactal 08:44, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Do we need to point out that the Pokéradar Pokémon are rare? If not, we have a free space to fit it in:

Game	Rarity	Location
Pokémon Diamond and Pearl	Pokéradar	Route 201

Otherwise, I prefer how Venonat looks. --FabuVinny ^T-C-S 17:05, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

They aren't always rare. And I've been adding in an availability template to Pokémon pages:

This Pokémon was unavailable prior to Generation III.

Generation III

Ruby

Sapphire

Few	Shoal Cave

Emerald

Few	Shoal Cave

FireRed

LeafGreen

None	Trade

Colosseum

None	Trade

XD

None	Trade

Generation IV

Diamond

Pearl

Rare	Routes 216 and 217, Acuity Lakefront (Poké Radar)

Platinum

None	Trade

HeartGold

SoulSilver

None	Trade

Generation V

None	Trade

Black 2

White 2

None	Trade

Generation VI

X

Y

None	Trade

That's what Snorunt has. T T Echidna 01:07, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm missing how that template affects the current issue. --FabuVinny ^T-C-S 21:50, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. So what about those in the Trophy Garden but need the pokéradar to be found. Should this be mentioned in the location section as well as that they are found in the Trophy Garden? The question was raised when looking at the Meowth page.

Yes, it should mention on both pages. And the page is on Meowth, Meowth is a disambiguation page, so you'd better use the {{p}} template. T T Echidna 18:22, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok but what about the PokéRadar in the Trophy Garden?Pterodactal 10:03, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean? T T Echidna 00:08, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

All of the pokemon that change daily in the Trophy Garden eg Happiny, Porygon and Mime Jr. require Pokeradar to find. Should this be mentioned in the template's location section? Pterodactal 06:34, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Do they? If so, well, do like Snorunt. Put "Trophy Garden (Poké Radar)" in the dparea thing. T T Echidna 09:50, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

The Trophy Garden Pokémon don't need Poké Radar. You just need to walk around a lot. - - - dra2k4 09:20, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

DONE THANKS GUYS Pterodactal 11:26, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Tiers

Might it be a good idea to create a category for each tier of Pokémon, as of Diamond/Pearl? It would be a bit easier for people to find out what tier their Pokémon is by just scrolling down, as opposed to navigating to the list of tiers page.

Well, I dunno, it's really more arbitrary than others. For example, I consider Gorebyss to be pretty good, but I've never used Skarmory. And let's not forget that the list of tiers is in need of cleanup; it seems pretty damn opinionated (and that's not because it says that Typhlosion is "not recommended for use outside of its tier"). After all, any Pokémon can be good if you can figure out how to make it that way. Heck, it's my opinion that the list of tiers is the same sort of "we'll tell you how to play Pokémon and not let you have fun" thing as that recommended movesets thing that was here a while back. Also, don't forget to sign comments with ~~~~. T T Echidna 02:23, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Whoops, sorry about that. Fair point I guess, but it might be handy for competitive players in particular kinds of battle, Never-Used for example. Blink 15:20, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

True, but eh. We have many of their level-up movesets, and most of their learnable TMs and HMs listed, as well as their base stats. Itdoes take a bit of investigating, still, to see whether the move in question on their list is Physical or Special, though, but as for how to change this? Beats me...

I do think, however, that that would be a better thing to do. Let people make up their own strategies, we'd possibly get more variety in teams. After all, I know that I figured out that Typhlosion wasn't as good with variety on my own, since it can barely learn any Special moves that aren't Fire, but it took me a bit of searching. I'm gonna do some experimenting in my sandbox about how to indicate the Physical/Special/Status moves in my sandbox. T T Echidna 01:01, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Are tiers just a fandom thing, or was there ever an official list published, even for RSE/FRLG etc?Blink 14:45, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

←
Far as I know they're just a fandom thing. I've never seen an official Nintendo list that says, outright "CATERPIE SUCKS NEVER EVER EVER USE IT." even if everyone knows this to be true. T T Echidna 19:25, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

So any pokemon can be useful eh? Weedle vs. T-Tar lol.

Nintendo hasn't said not, therefore, yes, Weedle vs Tyranitar is fine. Frickin' go for it. TTEchidna^G_SDS! 03:33, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

First off I want to say that not only does the Tier List need to be made more easily accessible, but a list of Items banned from competitive play would be nice too. I know Quick Claw and Focus Band is out of the question, but Im sure there are more that I don't know about. Now onto the business at hand.Nintendo actually has hinted at the fact that their are "tiers" in the game. If we look at the Battle Tower in D/P (for example) most of the ubers aren't allowed. The reason Wobbuffett was put on the list was because if two Wobbuffett started off against each other in metagame, you'd have a 65 - 70 turn snoozefest on your hands. The reason Latios and Latias aren't on the in-game uber list, is because not everybody has Soul Dew. The game was designed with balance in mind. Pokemon like Weedle and Caterpie do have a tier called NFE (Not Fully Evolved) now granted some Pokemon are good if NFE (i.e. Trapinch and Pikachu) some Pokemon were designed to not compete with others. Sure you can fight Weedle versus Tyranitar, and sure no one is going to tell you "no you can't do that", but there will be people telling you that Weedle vs. Tyranitar is not too hot of an idea. Flareon is a perfect example of Nintendo designing a Pokemon to not compete with others, you don't think Nintendo didn't realize "we gave a very physical attack oriented Pokemon very few choices when it came to physical attacks" do you? Regigigas is another example, they made sure it didn't get Protect or Rest. And no, Nintendo will never release a list saying "these Pokemon are good, these Pokemon are ok, these Pokemon suck" no company would ever do that cause it would completely take away from the game; Blizzard for instance will never say "rogues are the best kekekek" because then everyone would be rolling rogue. Just like Nintendo will never say "teams without Garchomp in it are destined to fail"; and we must remember that the Tiers Lists are for competitive play, it is indeed very possible to defeat the Elite Four and the Champion using UU and NU Pokemon, but in WiFi games, no a Lopunny will not be able to legitimately beat a Physical Dragonite 1v1. Imagine how annoying it would be to fight an Elite Four member with all OU Pokemon using Hax Items that didn't follow standard battle rules. First battle Bug, Choice Scarf Parasect to Spore EVERYONE of your Pokemon, Choice Band Heracross rocking people who can't counter it, Agility sweeping Life Orb Scizor bending over everything that wasn't resistant to Steel Bug and Fighting, Shuckle, sitting there with its 614 max defenses with only 3 weaknesses, 2 not being too common, Yanmega scouting us for attacks and passing on its speed to someone really slow, and then Pinsir with a bone to pick with whatever was left. Then we'd have Pokemon like a max Cursed out Snorlax getting Quick Claw procs, or Garchomps with Bright Powder milking the fruits of Tyranitar's labor. That's all I'll say for now, and props to whoever is able to read all this. Broloth 06:33, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Learnsets

Okay, I know we'll all agree that other sites that indicate the type and category of a move on the Pokémon's page are helpful for quick lookers. Sure, we shouldn't add power, accuracy, PP, and all that, but at the very least the type and category of the move.

So this is what I've come up with for Bulbasaur. It still indicates STAB, if a person's too lazy to scroll up to see what types the Pokémon is, and for Gen IV, it indicates Physical/Special in addition to type so that a person can pick out moves depending on the stats of the Pokémon as well as its types.

Thoughts? I certainly think that this could make the Pokémon pages much better than they are. T T Echidna 09:45, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I think you could be on to something here. It even looks a bit better, aesthetically speaking, than the current table. Blink 19:24, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Looks very nice. I feel sorry for you though, having to do that 492 more times. Zurqoxn 06:08, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah... unless I get some help... T T Echidna 06:32, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

That's very good. I like the layout better than the current one, since it seems easier to read and clearly shows whether a move is physical, special or status. -DarkMazer 03:37, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Now the best question. Wanna help me add them to all the rest?

Also: I have a new, possibly more improved proposal. Check it out. This way, when we get Gen V, VI, VII, and so on... we won't have to move stuff around besides the current moveset. T T Echidna 10:08, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I like your design. *nod* I would say leave it as separate tables on the same pages for Gen V but when we get to Gen VI change it to separate pages altogether. Though that would be a lot of work of converting all the pages. Perhaps we should start changing the pages once we hear Gen VI will be released? (If it does :P)dra2k4 19:58, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't really be much work, per se, if we already have all of the movesets organized into those tables-within-tables like Bulbasaur and some others have. T T Echidna 09:45, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

So when can we get started on changing them? - - - dra2k4 10:16, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Body shape

In GenIV, rather than by colour, Pokémon are able to be searched by a general body shape... Unfortunately, these categories are all symbols rather than names. This would make it hard to be included here, but I thought I'd put forth the idea anyway: Sort Pokémon by body shape, like we do with colour. The first thing, though, is that we'd have to come up with an agreeable standard on what each category should be named (since it doesn't do that for us). Just putting forth the idea for discussion, and whether or not the community thinks it would be useful. --DarkfireTaimatsu 04:36, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

We definately want to have some coverage on it but, as you say, it's going to be diffcult to implement. --FabuVinny ^T-C-S 23:10, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

So, anyone got any ideas for this? TTE chidna 02:05, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

How about we get the sprites from the game for it? As for the category.. um.. "Body Shape 1 Pokémon", etc? That's a suggestion I have.

Tina^☆♥♫ 03:06, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

But who'll say which is which? TTE chidna 05:43, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Alternate Coloration

I've been having plans for starting a subsection to the biology section that describes a Pokémon's alternate coloring. But the thing is, TinatheKirlia told me that such a subsection would be unnecessary because the sprite templates on each article. But I (was with TTEchidna, apparently) believe that describing what a Pokémon's shiny version looks like would be better.--Pokencyclopedia 20:10, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

It seems no more redundant than describing the normal form in the first place... --FabuVinny ^T-C-S 22:47, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Eh, I really think that there are more important things than telling what color a Pokémon is when shiny, but most especially since the sprites do so, and easily demonstrate the differences among the generations (Bulbasaur itself is tan in Gen II, but green with a dark green bulb in III and IV). TTE chidna 23:18, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Sometimes the shiny colors (I think this is why) in GenII is because of the limitations of the GBC. Some simple colors, such as Red Gyarados, stay but others such as Bulbasaur and Charizard get a little discolored, because of the limitations.

I dunno, but that's my guess. Tina The Kirlia ♥ File:281MS.gif 23:33, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about that misunderstanding, TTE. I thought you were agreeing with me.--Pokencyclopedia 23:23, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

pronunciation

Just relizing that I had "THE OFFICIAL Pokémon Handbook" infront of me. I always hated not knowing how to say the names correctly and in this book it says how is it possible to add a section for the first genneration Pokémon. (That's the only handbook I currently have from my school library).--File:Ani052MS.gif File:Ani300MS.gif File:Ani431MS.gif kittenchild and her discovery File:Ani264MS.gifA.K.A. ねこさん 01:32, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I have all of the series of those offical handbooks.................(but what does that have to do with Project Pokédex?????) --File:Spr 3e 059.gif File:Spr 3e 132.gifTheryguy 5 1 2 File:Trozeiani025.gif 01:35, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

well they have the pronunciation on every Pokémon shouldn't we put how to say the name of the Pokémon on their page?--File:Ani052MS.gif File:Ani300MS.gif File:Ani431MS.gif kittenchild and her discovery File:Ani264MS.gifA.K.A. ねこさん 01:39, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Most people know how to say it......but it's an idea........--File:Spr 3e 059.gif File:Spr 3e 132.gifTheryguy 5 1 2 File:Trozeiani025.gif 02:00, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I say this because I'm always fighting with my bro (who is 24) about how to say kyogre He says it as if it was katakana and I disagree.--File:Ani052MS.gif File:Ani300MS.gif File:Ani431MS.gif kittenchild and her discovery File:Ani264MS.gifA.K.A. ねこさん 02:03, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

It would be a useful addition to the infoboxes. The main question is if there is an official source for beyond the first generation. (Since some people insist that the dub pronounces things wrong for some reason.) I know we got Bonsly confirmed from PUSA but not of any source for the rest. --FabuVinny ^T-C-S 23:21, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

well I have the handbooks of the second generation, and the third generation as well. --File:Spr 3e 059.gif File:Spr 3e 132.gifTheryguy 5 1 2 File:Trozeiani025.gif 00:01, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

I usually pronounce Kyogre as Kai-oh-great (minus the t at the end). But the anime is Kai-oh-ge... Optimatum♏^Talk|♊Hi 13:52, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I usually pronounce it Kai-oh-ger. How do i participate in Project Pokédex. Where exactly is the evolution box on the page.

Woot Glih-score Gly-score debates =D and i don't trust the anime 100% of the time, i still think it's swee - kune, not soo-wee-soon let's not for get that english dubs aren't always right (i.e. Krillin vs. Kuririn, or Tien vs. Tenshinhan.)

R/S sprites

I know you guys aren't done uploading them, but are we gonna do the R/S sprites? Even though we have the Emerald ones... the R/S ones are half distracting. I dunno, just wondering.. Tina^δ♫ 19:06, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

All sprites means all of 'em. The only problem I see us running into is the shiny Emerald sprites. TTEchidna^G_SDS! 19:19, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Shadow

So um... where should we put info on the Shadow Pokémon? Probably under Game info, or Game locations.. Tina^δ♫ 21:54, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

That'd be a good idea, as a subsection of that. Like...

Probaly under Game Info..... File:Ani234MS.gif MERRY File:Ani385MS.gif CHRISTMAS File:Ani225MS.gif 23:55, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Shadow (name)

In (Colo/XD) a Shadow (name) can be found in (location), trained by (trainer). Its moves are (moves) and, when purified, it learns (moves).

TTEchidna^G_SDS! 22:03, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

We already have this information. The location table notes which Pokémon are shadow and the moves are noted under the moveset heading. --FabuVinny ^T-C-S 23:45, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Size and Weight

Hello, I'd like to discuss about the weight and size of Pokémon we display in the pokédex pages, I think they should be there, but they are not. (if they are and I don't see it, please notice me :-]) what do you think? MewUser 11:32, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

That information is in the infobox of every article... --FabuVinny ^T-C-S 12:58, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Joining

I, Darth Cookie Monster, is humbly asking to join this projectUser:Darth Cookie Monster 18:49, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

You don't have to ask. Just add your name to the list of participants. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 20:41, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Held items

The items Pokémon sometimes hold in the wild. I'm not sure how to implement the information yet but we are currently missing it. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 14:54, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I was thinking about this - maybe add a section in the usebox with Held Item, and a percentage. Don 17:44, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Number redirecting

should the national dex numbers redirect to the pokemon's data page? I can do that if needed. 折り紙ガイ - 離す貢献 15:09, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Help!

How do I join Project Pokédex?Medicham225 18:49, 24 May 2008 (UTC)medicham225

Simply add your name to the list of participants. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 19:07, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you.Medicham225 23:26, 24 May 2008 (UTC)Medicham225

Generation 4 Smogon links

The links for generation 4 'mon are still not working correctly. Zhen Lin implied that it would be possible to make the link as a function of the name of the article. [1] --Raijinili 05:11, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

About the sprites and trivia

Can we, you know, STOP FREAKING MENTIONING THEM THERE? They're all charted up, GO FIND THEM AND UPLOAD THEM instead of putting it in the trivia.

Also, next time anyone mentions something as obvious as "the Gen II backsprites and Gen III backsprites for Gen I and II Pokémon are similar" is going to be yelled at. You know why? BECAUSE THEY ALL ARE, just COLORIZED. Game Freak was lazy. Heck, they would've reused the Gen I ones if they weren't total crap. TTEchidna 05:09, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Why (Pokémon) rather than (species)?

I mean, Ash's Butterfree is also a Pokémon. --Raijinili 04:54, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Your point? --Force Fire 07:04, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Obviously that it's not correct and should be changed. --Raijinili 03:36, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Species is something very different. --Martonimos_{((Argh|Blargh))} 03:55, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Pokémon is the creature, Species is the Pokémon's Classification. Bulbasaur is a Pokémon and "Seed Pokémon" uis a type of species. --Force Fire 05:56, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Forgot about this.

Bulbasaur (species) is unambiguous in meaning even to those who aren't used to Bulbapedia. Bulbasaur (species) can only logically refer to one thing, while the Pokémon Bulbasaur can refer to either a particular Pokémon character or the Pokémon species Bulbasaur. --Raijinili 08:16, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Admission

Am I allowed to join? Mr.Lucario 11:13, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Everyone is. MathijsP 15:42, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Legendary Pokemon

I, BlazeFireKitty, spend a lot of time researching legendary Pokemon, and I'll add every single thing that I can get about them to their pages. The pages should really become very informative soon. I've noticed that a few are missing info under behavior and such, because the page is so focused on their game stats.

Sprites

I have been uploading sprites to bulbagarden archives (normal and shiny sprites of first 110 pokemon from crystal), but I hardly seem to be making a dent. is there a list of missing sprites?--Cadellin 18:21, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Not really, you just have to look at the seperate species pages. ^Moldy _Orange 18:26, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

As someone who has also been uploading a lot of sprites, here is the current situation as I have seen it:

All the Gen I sprites are uploaded.
All the GS front sprites are uploaded.
We are missing a lot of Crystal sprites, though you seem to be handling that one.
Generation III has the most gaps. We are missing most of the front sprites for RS and FRLG.
We do have all the normal Emerald front sprites but not the shiny sprites.
We have back sprites for Generation II and III but not shiny back sprites.
As of last week, we have a complete collection of front and back DP sprites.
We obviously don't have Platinum sprites yet.

So the main areas to focus on are: Crystal front sprites, Gen II/III shiny back sprites and Generation III front sprites. There's still a long way to go but a lot has already been done. I'll look into getting Gen III into a better shape when I finish inserting the MD2 locations. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 19:01, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I've never talked on the discussion board before, but...

I think that I can help a little bit with the movesets. I have a R/S strategy guide that has all the learnsets of the Hoenn Dex in order, and I went through the list of Gen III movesets that we've got already on here. I went through the 200 Pokémon in the guide and found the few that were missing (from the Hoenn Dex, at least.). Since I have almost zero experience doing this kind of thing, I don't want to mess anything up, so here's a short list (Again, just from the Hoenn Dex.):

Marill Azumarill Geodude Graveler Golem Zubat Golbat Crobat Tentacool Tentacruel Oddish Gloom Vileplume Bellossom Ninetales Pichu Raichu Golduck Rhyhorn Rhydon

All of these Pokémon are, as I said, missing Gen III movesets. I don't know if you've covered this or not, but there you are. Sorry if I'm wasting any time. Spatula 03:09, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Another sprite suggestion,

For ease of use, we have the numbered images with nothing else on them represent the current generation, which is a good idea. Therefore I suggest (and I will do all the work) that we have a 'current generation' template as we do for the others. What do you guys think? Whenever we get a new generation, we can simply use the reupload feature, and slightly edit the template and it will sweep across all the images. MK 18:32, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

A Question I feel is important about Learnsets

I see that, for whatever reason, you have omitted previous generations learnsets. Naturally, this is understandable for Gen I and II, and the most recent Gen IV is relevent to most users. However, under move tutors, you have kept the tutors for FR, LG, Emerald and XD alongside DP and Platinum.

I don't think this is wrong, as I believe this is relevent - since the moves are available in the fourth generation, the third gen stuff should stay. However, for things like level up moves, and (maybe) breeding and TM/HM perhaps the information should be included? Or perhaps only the information that has changed, after all a lot of level up information stays the same from generation to generation...

Probably something discussed in the two archives already catalogued that I haven't looked though, but just something that perhaps could be clarified before it is complete, and then everyone realises that they want it a different way.