Talk:Sabrina's Haunter/Archive 1
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Move
Yes I moved it. It's not his anymore and I cite Casey's Beedrill as precidence - unsigned comment from Lego3400 (talk • contribs)
- Well, I can see your point, but this raises a question; do we rename all of the other Pokémon that Ash gave away? For instance, should we rename Ash's Primeape so that its name is Anthony's Primeape? I'm okay with this change, though. --PAK Man Talk 21:57, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- I don't know...If we were to go through with such a plan, we'd have to change Jessie's Lickitung to Benny's Lickitung, Brock's Vulpix to Susie's Vulpix, and so on and so forth. Keep in mind that Anthony and Benny were both characters of the day, and characters of the day Pokémon articles are, for the most part, non-notable. I'm not quite decided myself on this issue...--Shiningpikablu252 22:05, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- That is a very good point... I didn't think of those two when I did it. However, Ash only kept Hunter for one or two, episodes before it decided to stay with Sabrina. Cassie's Beedrill also falls in that same boat. Ash also never caught Hunter, so it would have been more aptly named, Haunter (Anime) if it didn't decide to stay with Sabrina. As for Primeape, Vulpix and Lickitung, they were part of their previous trainer's team for quite some time before being traded. Primeape has also reappeared in openings alongside other of Ash's former Pokemon, something Haunter hasn't done. Also Ash stated that he would come back for Haunter (Which we know isn't going to happen), and didn't do that for Primeape. Lego3400 16:10, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
- I don't know...If we were to go through with such a plan, we'd have to change Jessie's Lickitung to Benny's Lickitung, Brock's Vulpix to Susie's Vulpix, and so on and so forth. Keep in mind that Anthony and Benny were both characters of the day, and characters of the day Pokémon articles are, for the most part, non-notable. I'm not quite decided myself on this issue...--Shiningpikablu252 22:05, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- The Beedrill comparison isn't valid: Beedrill has been shown as one of Casey's main Pokémon while Haunter has not been seen again since Ash got it.
- Haunter is a more complicated issue and should be set as precedent even less than Beedrill. --FabuVinny T-C-S 10:03, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Well, seeing how the Japanese version of Haunter vs Kadabra used the japanese word for Get Pokemon in regards to Haunter (from both Ash AND Sabrina), it was owned by Ash. Weedle Mchairybug 22:11, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Template
Well it be nessecary to make a Sabrina's Pokémon template? --Theryguy512
- Yhank you for letting me make one! Here is the finished product:
| Sabrina's Pokémon | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| On hand: | ||||||
| Befriended: | ||||||
| Adventures only: | ||||||
| Pocket Monsters only: | ||||||
| Zensho only: | ||||||
--Theryguy512 01:00, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Moves Used
I'm pretty sure Haunter used Lick on Misty before they reached the Gym
the caught at box is left blank
i tried editing but couldnt find where to put it.Any way the answer is Lavender Town - Pokémon Tower .--Solid! 07:18, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
Caught At
Similar to the note above this why does it say caught at Saffron City now? Just like Ash "never Caught it" there is no evidence that Sabrina ever put it in a Pokéball. Since it was never put in a Pokéball I think the place it was originally "found" should be it's "catch location" (Lavender Town - Pokémon Tower) if any at all, not Saffron City. -- D558 23:54, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
- Ash never officially owned it. Sabrina did. Sabrina picked it up in Saffron City. Nuff said. Caught doesn't always mean catching in a ball. --ケンジのガール 06:46, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
- What made it so Sabrina caught it but Ash didn't? By your logic that a pokeball dosn't mean capture can mean that Ash owned it too (Ash "picked it up" in Lavender town, nuff said?). Haunter was with Ash for 2 episodes but is only with Sabrina in 1 then is mearly implied that "they will be together forever". I am keeping in mind that this is a contested subject for a lot of people and I doubt i'll change bulbapedias mind but I would just like to present this conflicting "knowledge" somewhere noticeable -- D558 20:24, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
- Um... What is the title of this article? Is it Ash's Haunter? I think not. It's now staying with Sabrina. Just let it go. --ケンジのガール 21:23, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
- It is just that kind of stubborn ignorance that will force me to "let it go" because I can't be bothered to try and reason with someone who is so high and mighty with their "knowledge" that they feebly base their arguments on something that is well known to be disputed and is in fact extremely closely related to the point I am trying to calmly and logically dispute(where haunter was caught and by extension who). Specifically against your "argument" that the title proves your point, There was a famous German leader who called a plan "The Final Solution" but any sane or caring person would think of it as anything but that... -- D558 06:45, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
- What made it so Sabrina caught it but Ash didn't? By your logic that a pokeball dosn't mean capture can mean that Ash owned it too (Ash "picked it up" in Lavender town, nuff said?). Haunter was with Ash for 2 episodes but is only with Sabrina in 1 then is mearly implied that "they will be together forever". I am keeping in mind that this is a contested subject for a lot of people and I doubt i'll change bulbapedias mind but I would just like to present this conflicting "knowledge" somewhere noticeable -- D558 20:24, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Manga
Would it be safe to assume that the Black Fog would be the Electric Tale of Pikachu equivalent of Ash....Sabrina's Haunter? I mean, a Haunter and Sabrina..it only makes sense Ataro 03:59, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
- bringing this up again Ataro 18:49, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
- And bringing it up yet again......Ataro 15:09, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
- From what I understand(which isn't much), the Haunter called the "Black fog" is Sabrina's enemy, and she does not own it. This is not enough of a similarity to put it on this page. Blake Talk·Edits 03:23, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
- You need to read the manga and it's differences to understand...Ataro 03:28, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
- To me, the story is too different and the Black Fog deserves its own seperate article. Then again Ash's Fearow has the Fearow from EP081 listed as its anime equivalent so I suppose this isn't too different from that. --ZestyCactus 19:06, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
- You need to read the manga and it's differences to understand...Ataro 03:28, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
- From what I understand(which isn't much), the Haunter called the "Black fog" is Sabrina's enemy, and she does not own it. This is not enough of a similarity to put it on this page. Blake Talk·Edits 03:23, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
- And bringing it up yet again......Ataro 15:09, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
Owner?
Haunter tagged along with Ash for an episode or two, but he never caught it. Haunter hung out with Sabrina at the end of the episode, but she doesn't necessarily own it because she wasn't seen actually using it. So shouldn't this be at Haunter (anime), like Jigglypuff is? Satoshi101 18:17, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
I feel the this article sould be called something else, enless someone has proof that Haunter is really sabrina's. Though I will let an adim. do the title changing. Truthseeker4449 18:01, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
- I actually agree, Haunter is really just a free-spirited joker with no more links to Sabrina than Ash has to Jigglypuff or Sandile. We don't even know if Haunter stayed with Sabrina beyond the time it took for Ash and the others to leave. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 05:39, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
- But what makes it under Sabrina's ownership any more than Ash's but left with her? And Force Fire, Sabrina also has a Gastly, Alakazam, Drowzee, Jynx and Porygon under her ownership. Gym Leader expansions should not be the determinative factor for an anime decision. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 06:08, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
I tried to move the page, but it ended up in edit war, and now I can't even edit the page. Help! Satoshi101 01:45, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- You really should have left it unmoved until a consensus was reached, all you do is hurt the cause because you are seen as a vandal. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 02:00, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- You can't move or edit it because it's protected.--ForceFire 02:02, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- I personally would like to know what evidence we have that Haunter is still with Sabrina. Truthseeker4449 02:07, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- What evidence we have that Haunter isn't still with Sabrina? The way I see it, it was seen with Sabrina's family as Ash was leaving. If it was seen leaving with Ash, or seen going back to Lavender Town, it'd be "Ash's". But it wasn't. It was along side Sabrina's family like it was a welcomed member. ★Jo the Marten★ ಠ_ಠ♥ 02:17, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- I personally would like to know what evidence we have that Haunter is still with Sabrina. Truthseeker4449 02:07, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- You can't move or edit it because it's protected.--ForceFire 02:02, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- Jo, that'd be good enough for me if one completely ignored the entirety of Haunter's character. Its frequently moved around of its own free will, abandoning Ash on a whim. And its already walked away from one family, its Gastly and Gengar friends who it lived with prior to meeting Ash. Why would it change its entire character just to hang around with a girl it met once? Toon Ganondorf (t c) 11:35, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- Well if I recall, the ghosts were lonesome and wanted someone to play with, which was one of the biggest reasons Haunter left with Ash anyway. To have someone to play with, along with helping out a friend during a gym battle. Haunter usually left Ash to find others to make laugh (i.e. Jessie when he nearly killed Team Rocket). Considering how mentally unstable Sabrina was, she really needed someone to make her laugh, and she found that in Haunter. I'd be willing to speculate that without Haunter around, Sabrina would sink back into her depressive split personality deal. It's like her father said, "Deep down all Sabrina ever wanted was to make friends." So in short I'm saying: Haunter wanted a friend to make laugh, Sabrina wanted a friend to make her laugh. They're a perfect match, so it's not completely unfathomable that he'd stay with her. ★Jo the Marten★ ಠ_ಠ♥ 11:55, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- Jo, that'd be good enough for me if one completely ignored the entirety of Haunter's character. Its frequently moved around of its own free will, abandoning Ash on a whim. And its already walked away from one family, its Gastly and Gengar friends who it lived with prior to meeting Ash. Why would it change its entire character just to hang around with a girl it met once? Toon Ganondorf (t c) 11:35, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
Well I don't think its completely unfathomable that Ash's Charizard is a male, but Bulbapedia has always been very rigid on evidence and I don't any reason for Haunter to be classified as belonging to Sabrina. By all mean list its location as "With Sabrina" and whatnot, but its still a free spirit and unlike Mimey, there's not enough appearance to justify a decision that it is her Pokémon rather than just a wild Pokémon hanging around for its own purposes. Like Meowth. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 12:27, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- While I don't agree on the whole Charizard being male debate I do think that it should stay because it falls under speculation. It's just silly to think after Ash and company left Haunter just got up and left Sabrina. There's no evidence. We can't and don't go innto a full fledged investigation about where old characaters Pokemon have gone. Madame Muchmoney's Granbull frequently ran away from it's owner, do we keep checking back to see if it's still there? No. So why should this be treated diffrently? --Pokemaster97 13:59, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
- You do make an excellent point, however the key difference is that Granbull was a rebellious Pokémon who was owned by Madame Muchmoney. Haunter was technically still a wild Pokémon. The two cannot be compared because even if Snubull ran away, it still belonged to her. My point is that even if Haunter is still with Sabrina, it doesn't belong to her because it is a wild Pokémon floating around of its own motivation. Mimey has taken battle commands from Delia, Haunter just licked Sabrina in the face. Ownership is not correct. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 22:27, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
Since we've had a bit of an updated discussion, it seems that the majority agree that ownership to Sabrina isn't accurate. Do you guys think we can reach a decision? If so, then reply, and we can cross that out on the list of things to do. I also apologize for any vandal-like behavior I might have been known for in this dispute. Satoshi101 02:52, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- Only 3 people think it should be moved with 2 against, one of them being a staff member. I don't think that's consensus. I think we should wait and discuss a little longer. --Pokemaster97 03:05, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- Honestly I think it's pointless to move it to Haunter (anime). Not to mention the majority of the fandom sees this Pokémon as Sabrina's as well as all the other language wikis. All it will do is confuse people. About the ownership issue, I'd like to bring up Ash's Larvitar. He doesn't own it, never had. He had six Pokémon already when it was traveling with it so it could not be his at all. It's with its mother now. So should we move that to Larvitar (anime)? Yes the bond was shown to be stronger but we have no idea what happened after Ash left Saffron. Jo brought up good points as well. Sometimes it's not about official ownership when these articles get named. That's my two cents. --ケンジのガール 03:36, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
The title "Sabrina's Haunter" says that Sabrina owns Haunter. We don't know that and we have no way of proving it. We can't disprove the claim that Haunter is Sabrina's either. It's the same principle with Ash's Larvitar. We can't prove anything about its ownership. The title "Haunter (anime)" neither confirms nor denies that Sabrina own's Haunter. That's why this page should be moved to Haunter (anime).--Alex726(TALK) 03:46, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- And Ash doesn't own Larvitar. T That's a fact. They title implies that Ash owns Larvitar. So it should be moved to Larvitar (anime). Right? This is what I'm trying to say. He doesn't own Larvitar and Sabrina isn't confirmed to own Haunter. So why is it fine for Ash and not Sabrina? --ケンジのガール 03:51, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- I completely agree with you. I just suggested moving Ash's Larvitar to Larvitar (anime). We should be consistent.--Alex726(TALK) 03:58, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- Just to note, I wasn't saying we should go ahead a move Ash's Larvitar because of this. I personally like them where they are as it's what the fandom knows them best as, whether it be strictly correct or not. --ケンジのガール 04:01, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- I know it's not what you intended, but I personally think they should be moved. I'm only submitting my vote and making a suggestion to fix something you brought to my attention. Thank you for mentioning the inconsistensy, by the way.--Alex726(TALK) 04:07, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- It is inconsitant and I agree it needs to be cleared up, but we need to keep articles at a name most fans will know. "Ash's Larvitar" and "Brock's Vulpix" all fall under this same technicallity of not being theirs, but people know them under these owners the best. --Pokemaster97 04:12, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- Brock's Vulpix is different. Brock owned the Pokéball that contained Vulpix. Brock may have said that he felt Vulpix was never his, but that's just it. He only said he felt Vulpix was never his. It was given to him and he eventually gave it back. And just because fans know these Pokémon best as their current titles doesn't mean we will cause a panic if we move them. If they search "Sabrina's Haunter" it will just redirect them to the correct page. I tried searching "Ash's Haunter" and it redirected me to Sabrina's Haunter immediately.--Alex726(TALK) 04:21, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- Suzy handed it off to him and it was his, but he gave it back to suzy therefore making it not his anymore. Now it's Suzy's vulpix. But the fans know Vulpix better as Brock's so the page is titled "Brock's Vulpix". "Suzy's Vulpix" redirects there as well. So no it's not all that diffrent. --Pokemaster97 04:30, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- Brock's Vulpix is different. Brock owned the Pokéball that contained Vulpix. Brock may have said that he felt Vulpix was never his, but that's just it. He only said he felt Vulpix was never his. It was given to him and he eventually gave it back. And just because fans know these Pokémon best as their current titles doesn't mean we will cause a panic if we move them. If they search "Sabrina's Haunter" it will just redirect them to the correct page. I tried searching "Ash's Haunter" and it redirected me to Sabrina's Haunter immediately.--Alex726(TALK) 04:21, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- It is inconsitant and I agree it needs to be cleared up, but we need to keep articles at a name most fans will know. "Ash's Larvitar" and "Brock's Vulpix" all fall under this same technicallity of not being theirs, but people know them under these owners the best. --Pokemaster97 04:12, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- I know it's not what you intended, but I personally think they should be moved. I'm only submitting my vote and making a suggestion to fix something you brought to my attention. Thank you for mentioning the inconsistensy, by the way.--Alex726(TALK) 04:07, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- Just to note, I wasn't saying we should go ahead a move Ash's Larvitar because of this. I personally like them where they are as it's what the fandom knows them best as, whether it be strictly correct or not. --ケンジのガール 04:01, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
Ash is not Sabrina. Ash has appeared in every single episode to date. Brock to a lesser extent has appeared in Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Battle Frontier and Sinnoh. Sabrina appeared in two episodes. You cannot compare Ash and Brock to Sabrina, not matter what her role in the games, TGC, manga and franchise in general.
Unlike Casey's Beedrill, Haunter has not appeared again and it never ever battled or did anything under Sabrina's ownership. It had a five second shot if it floating beside her. That precedent should not be followed. For reasons I've already given, the TGC should be completely irrelevant to the decision.
With all due respect, I completely reject Kenji-girl's claim that "a majority of the fandom sees it as Sabrina's". Jo and Kenji are the only ones who have explicitly opposed the move - ForceFire has made observations but not argued against and I disagree with counting that as a vote unless they say so. If you were to ask the average fan who had not read articles on this wiki if they remember Haunter, none of them will say "oh yes, Sabrina's Haunter", they would say Ash's Haunter. It wasn't caught but neither was Larvitar. Therefore I'm going to deviate from my original position and suggest that it be renamed Ash's Haunter again. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 05:58, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Toon Ganondorf. For the sake of uniformity, like Larvitar, it should be Ash's name in the title. Honestly, when I was younger, I thought of it as his all along. The "befriended by Sabrina" bit is purely speculation. LimeGreenCharizard♂ 06:03, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
Jo, Kenji, you two seem to be the only ones opposing it. But the majority of us users do. I think that means a decision has been reached, hasn't it? I'm not going to try changing it now, because policey Kenji-girl and other admins would probably blow the whistle on me. Satoshi101 19:38, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- I don't think having only tenish people arguing is enough, lets get other thoughts. Heck we could even do a simple poll. Truthseeker4449 20:05, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
I asked one of my friends (shiny shinx aka shiny eevee) and he said this:"Haunter (anime). I was nobodys Haunter, even tho Ash used it. And it possibley stayed with Sabrina, it was never offcally caught."
My other friend (Gym Leader Calvin) said: "I'd say Sabrina's Haunter. It was left seen with her, but at the same time, it wasn't captured by Ash or Sabrina. (Though with the latter, not on-screen.)" Truthseeker4449 20:17, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- You won't be able to count those as votes you know. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 21:10, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
I thought the rule was it can be counted as Sabrina's Haunter if she was a main character which she isn't so it should still be Ash's Haunter by the perspective of us just like Brock's Vulpix? AquaMaster 21:13, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- You are right that Sabrina isn't a main character but don't forget that Vulpix is different because it was captured whilst Haunter never was. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 21:42, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
Oh yeah, in that case it should remain Sabrina's Haunter. AquaMaster 21:46, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- To Satoshi101, just know that now some people want it at Ash's Haunter now so that doesn't mean that mostly everyone is in favor of Haunter (anime). Three for Haunter (anime), two for Ash's Haunter, and three for Sabrina's Haunter. So the majority is not for Haunter (anime) at this point. I'd really wish you be more patient with this. Especially when only a few people have spoken here and only eight have made their decision. --ケンジのガール 23:17, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- For the record I'd be happy with Haunter (anime) or Ash's Haunter. Its only Sabrina's Haunter I find misleading. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 02:48, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'd also like to point out James' Cacnea has not be renamed Gardenia's Cacnea. Calling it Ash's Haunter would be consistent with that decision. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 02:49, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
- I hope you don't mind if I put my own opinion. Because no one knows whether Haunter stayed with Sabrina, and it had more connection with Ash but didn't stay with Ash, I think it should be Haunter (anime). It never stayed with Ash, so it shouldn't be Ash's Haunter, and we don't know if it stayed with Sabrina, so it can't be called Sabrina's Haunter either. All this argument could be summed up with that little statement. --☆ヨッシ ー の世界☆ 22:54, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
- I think it should be treated like Jirachi and Max. He befriended it and was basiclly his, but he never explictly caught it and he left it later. So I think it shoud be called Haunter (anime) because ash only befriended it. --Pokemaster97 23:01, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
- I hope you don't mind if I put my own opinion. Because no one knows whether Haunter stayed with Sabrina, and it had more connection with Ash but didn't stay with Ash, I think it should be Haunter (anime). It never stayed with Ash, so it shouldn't be Ash's Haunter, and we don't know if it stayed with Sabrina, so it can't be called Sabrina's Haunter either. All this argument could be summed up with that little statement. --☆ヨッシ ー の世界☆ 22:54, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
To Toon Ganondorf, like you said to me James Cacnea was caught, however Haunter was not on screen by anyone. AquaMaster 23:03, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
- That is true. However, Sabrina has no more right of ownership over Haunter than does Ash. My point is that Gardenia was not considered main enough to have Cacnea renamed after her, why should Sabrina? Toon Ganondorf (t c) 23:05, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
Why can't we just put it in Ash's befriended Pokémon and say it's last known/current location was with Sabrina? AquaMaster 23:10, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
- I stand with my opinion. Yes, we could just put it under Ash's befriended Pokemon, because he did befriend it. But he never owned it, which is why Ash's Haunter is misleading. Sabrina's Haunter or Haunter (anime) is fine for me, but I still (as said earlier) prefer Haunter (anime). --☆ヨッシ ー の世界☆ 23:14, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
- How is Sabrina's Haunter less misleading than Ash's Haunter though? Toon Ganondorf (t c) 23:18, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
- It was last seen with Sabrina. Ash gave Sabrina Haunter, making it hers. It is no longer with Ash. --☆ヨッシ ー の世界☆ 23:22, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
- It wasn't Ash's to begin with. Did anyone even read what I said above? It's not Ash or Sabrina's. hey only befriended them. It's like the situation with Max and "his" pokemon. The title "Haunter (anime)" is the only one that fits. Make redirects for the other two titles. --Pokemaster97 23:26, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
- It was last seen with Sabrina. Ash gave Sabrina Haunter, making it hers. It is no longer with Ash. --☆ヨッシ ー の世界☆ 23:22, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'm happy with anything besides Sabrina's Haunter, because its not hers. It was a wild Pokémon hanging around with her. Gardenia and Cacnea showed that a Pokémon being given to a Gym Leader doesn't warrant an excuse to change the page's ownership to them. Haunter never battled under anyone's ownership so I suppose Haunter (anime) works. Just not Sabrina's Haunter. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 01:32, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
- I think Haunter (anime) would be okay, since its not incorrect. But I'd prefer to keep it as Sabrina's Haunter, since (in my view anyway) it belongs to her. Pokemon page names should reflect their Pokemon's current status, for example Brock's Vulpix should be Suzy's Vulpix, since its her Pokemon, being a COtD is not a good enough reason not to move the page. Ash's Pidgeotto is Ash's Pidgeot, as even though it only appeared briefly, its what it is now. But right now, I'm not for or against moving this. Vuvuzela2010 Δ 16:06, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
- Actually, its probably best if it was simply moved to "Ash's Haunter." Sabrina wasn't given any evidence that it belonged to her, yet there was evidence towards Ash owning it. Assuming Dogasu's comparison of the episode is correct, apparently Sabrina and Ash mentioned that he "got" Haunter in the Japanese version, which would heavily imply that he does indeed own Haunter. Read this if you don't believe me. Anyways, going by that, as well as Sabrina being capable of reading minds (She's psychic, after all) and thus would know if Ash caught it or not, Ash seems to be more in favor of actually owning it than Sabrina. Besides, Togepi was under Misty's ownership despite not even having a Poké ball, and Vulpix was stated to not be under Brock's ownership, despite being caught in a Poké Ball, so I honestly don't think we should use whether they were caught in a Poké ball as an indicator of ownership, anyways, not unless its a 100% effective, no exceptions rule. Weedle Mchairybug 17:37, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
- To Kenji-girl, you just need to realize that this has been going on for quite while, I even proposed it first back in July. And to the others, this has been a deep dispute ever since I revived it this month, it just seems like we aren't getting anywhere. I agree with what Truthseeker4449 suggested, we should do a poll. That would help settle things at least a little. Satoshi101 00:28, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
- Oppose of everything that was said above. Haunter was last seen with Sabrina, therefore, it is Sabrina's.--ForceFire 09:37, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
- I am absolutely against the idea of moving it to Ash's Haunter, it was never under his possession during the entire episodes. He did ask Haunter to help him out but it never did (referring to the Gym Battle, not Sabrina and her psychic doll thingy scenes). I know that Sabrina didn't catch it either but the fact that Haunter was the reason for Sabrina's breakthrough and stayed behind with her till the end. Not to mention, even though she is a Psychic-type specialist, yet both the official Gym Booster expansions have Haunter (a ghost type) as Sabrina's Pokémon. I think we can safely assume that it belongs to Sabrina. ♫♪ エイディニズ ♪♫ 12:55, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
- Haunter vs. Kadabra had not only Ash, but Sabrina, of all people, claiming that Ash caught Haunter. Even if you try to argue that Ash was most likely bragging, Sabrina, a person who is revealed to have latent psychic powers, and most likely knows telepathy, would have certainly known if Ash had caught Haunter or not. Don't believe me, ask Dogasu, since he made that clear when he compared the episode. Weedle Mchairybug 02:12, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
- I am absolutely against the idea of moving it to Ash's Haunter, it was never under his possession during the entire episodes. He did ask Haunter to help him out but it never did (referring to the Gym Battle, not Sabrina and her psychic doll thingy scenes). I know that Sabrina didn't catch it either but the fact that Haunter was the reason for Sabrina's breakthrough and stayed behind with her till the end. Not to mention, even though she is a Psychic-type specialist, yet both the official Gym Booster expansions have Haunter (a ghost type) as Sabrina's Pokémon. I think we can safely assume that it belongs to Sabrina. ♫♪ エイディニズ ♪♫ 12:55, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
- Oppose of everything that was said above. Haunter was last seen with Sabrina, therefore, it is Sabrina's.--ForceFire 09:37, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
- TGC means nothing. She also has Hypno, Porygon and Gastly. I can easily refute every argument made above but there's really not point because no one listens. Thats why we might as well vote without arguing. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 22:26, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
I have listed myself as "undecided" because I will submit my vote to whichever of Ash or Anime gets the majority, anything besides keeping it as Sabrina's. Those pushing for change, can I please remind you that unless we make a clear decision, the status quo wins and this discussion thread becomes confusing and pointless. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 08:51, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
- If this is ok, I'll be listing myself for the page being moved to Ash's Haunter. I prefer it being that way... Ataro 08:58, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
- Putting in for staying at Sabrina. Have nothing further to add. --The Great Butler 09:34, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
To tell you the truth, everyone, I'm happy with either Haunter (anime) or Ash's Haunter. I only really oppose Sabrina's Haunter. You guys, first of all, need to remember that Bulbapedia does NOT list character of the day's-even if it's a Gym Leader's Pokémon-in a separate article, unless they are recurring characters. Second, the TGG isn't supposed to follow the anime. For example, Ash's Aipom (TGG) moves aren't actually known by Ash's Aipom in the anime. Otherwise, everything else about not wanting it as Sabrina's Haunter has pretty much already been explained by me. Thank you. Satoshi101 22:31, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
- I think it should be Haunter anime, and be placed in both ash and sabrina's befriended section and the main page should be Haunter (anime). AquaMaster 13:01, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
- Sabrina's, but only if we have the same discussions for Vulpix, Lickiting, etc. If not, then my vote doesnt count. Vuvuzela2010 Δ 19:40, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
Current poll results: Haunter (anime): 10 Ash's Haunter: 7 Sabrina's: 6
It seems like the majority is Haunter (anime). 23 people have put in their opinion, should be enough. If anyone else wants to put in their two cents, this is your last chance before I am going to go with the majority desicion, and therefore change the page if the win calls for that. No buts about it being the last chance, I am the coordinator of this discussion. Satoshi101 22:51, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
- According to the poll, there's only 5 people that have explicitly stated they want to move it to Haunter (anime) (Satoshi, Alex, Yoshis World, Truthseeker4449, AquaMaster), I think we should go by that. Who are the other 5? Vuvuzela2010 Δ 22:58, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
- and there is 9 for Sabrina, not 6. Vuvuzela2010 Δ 23:01, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
My bad, I must have counted wrong. Satoshi101 23:56, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
- The majority is actually Sabrina at the moment. Also Satoshi, since I started this consensus discussion, I would appreciate if you let me figure it out and don't be hasty. I'm going to leave it open until Monday night (Australian time) and then we'll see. There are many who won't see this until the weekend. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 23:15, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'm wondering how you plan to move the page while it's still protected, Satoshi. The protection doesn't expire in this case and has to be unprotected before it can be moved by one of us. Truthseeker4449 23:19, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
- Exactly. I don't know why people are acting like they have the power to all of a sudden over ride everyone and make the final decision. The final choice obviously has to be by a staff member. --Pokemaster97 23:21, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
- Well what do you think they're even a staff member for? No offense Kenji, and all other admins with this, but you guys seem to be like police officers a lot of the time. Remember, one of us lower-class users might be promoted someday. Sorry Toon Ganondorf if I was a little impatient and maybe bossy, I realize that you did carry this consensus out. I'm assigning this decision to you. Monday night Australian time sounds fair. (I'll just need to translate that to my time.) Satoshi101 23:56, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
- Well it is the admins' job to keep the peace and enforce the manual of style. And yes, you can be promoted, but guess who makes that decision as well? ;) I don't know what you expect of admins if you don't think we should keep the peace and guide others in the right direction. ★Jo the Marten★ ಠ_ಠ♥ 00:09, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
- The admins have turned against us... Truthseeker4449 02:22, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
- @Satoshi101: Comparing TCG moves with a Pokémon is not fair at all, because when it comes to moves, TCG have more than 100 moves which have not been introduced in the anime or games. Also, it isn't about being a "recurring" character only, it is about their significance to the plot.
- @Truthseeker: Saying "admins have turned against us" and "I don't think that with so many admins opposing us" is a bit misleading. Please keep in mind that we are not against you but your decision, there is a difference. We gave our reasons before voting since we all have the right to share our opinions just like you guys did. So, please be patient while discussing it. ♫♪ エイディニズ ♪♫ 03:01, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
- The admins have turned against us... Truthseeker4449 02:22, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
- Well it is the admins' job to keep the peace and enforce the manual of style. And yes, you can be promoted, but guess who makes that decision as well? ;) I don't know what you expect of admins if you don't think we should keep the peace and guide others in the right direction. ★Jo the Marten★ ಠ_ಠ♥ 00:09, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
- Well what do you think they're even a staff member for? No offense Kenji, and all other admins with this, but you guys seem to be like police officers a lot of the time. Remember, one of us lower-class users might be promoted someday. Sorry Toon Ganondorf if I was a little impatient and maybe bossy, I realize that you did carry this consensus out. I'm assigning this decision to you. Monday night Australian time sounds fair. (I'll just need to translate that to my time.) Satoshi101 23:56, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
- Exactly. I don't know why people are acting like they have the power to all of a sudden over ride everyone and make the final decision. The final choice obviously has to be by a staff member. --Pokemaster97 23:21, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'm wondering how you plan to move the page while it's still protected, Satoshi. The protection doesn't expire in this case and has to be unprotected before it can be moved by one of us. Truthseeker4449 23:19, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
- The majority is actually Sabrina at the moment. Also Satoshi, since I started this consensus discussion, I would appreciate if you let me figure it out and don't be hasty. I'm going to leave it open until Monday night (Australian time) and then we'll see. There are many who won't see this until the weekend. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 23:15, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
How the heck could the majority be voting for Sabrina? It seems more like many are voting for Haunter (anime) or Ash's Haunter. I don't think many people are giving good reasons about wanting it as it is. And remember, we also want the choice to be something fans that visit our site won't find misleading and agree with. And to answer your question, Truthseeker, if we can't do it, then I guess we'll have to get a staff member or admin to do the honors. Honestly, I don't know why this wasn't protected before that user (who I know is a rookie) changed it to Sabrina's Haunter. And he discussed it after he moved it, not before. But in this instance, it's more serious. If it was protected and discussed before, this wouldn't have happened. Just my view, I don't really mean to blame anyone that harshly. Satoshi101 01:40, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
- I think it should be Haunter (anime) because therefore it could be following both Ash and Sabrina. Honestly, just make a redirect for both Ash's Haunter and Sabrina's Haunter. I know that it's obviously up to the admins, but I wish to give them a reason to move it. Even though most of those staff members vote for it to stay at Sabrina, I still think it should be anime. It qualifies with both Ash and Sabrina, because it's both of theirs if it's at Haunter (anime). Just my opinion for the staff members to take into account. --☆ヨッシ ー の世界☆ 02:10, December 3 2011 (UTC)
- I'm changing my mind and going with Ash's Haunter. Though it is Sabrina's, there arent any other COtD pages, and we should be consistant. Though I wouldnt have been against moving pages to their corret names (Benny's Lickitung, ect), I think it could potentially be too awkward to do for released Pokemon (like Ash's Pidgeot becoming Pidgeot (anime)). So it should be moved to Ash's for consistency.
Also, can I just say to voters voting, please don't just vote, say why you're voting as well :) Vuvuzela2010 Δ 10:22, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
- @Vuvuzela2010: Users have every right to simply vote without making a message on this talk page, especially if their rationale has already been stated more than once. This talk page is already getting incredibly bogged down with the exact same arguments repeated over and over. However, it would be ideal (but not required) if they at least mention what argument they agree with in their edit summary. As for CotD pages: Orville*, Puka, Crystal Onix, Pink Butterfree*, Nero*, Aura Sphere Riolu*, arguably Silver (Lugia)* arguably Cheryl's Mothim*, and arguably Riley's Lucario*. One could also argue that Sabrina is not equivalent to a CotD, due to her appearance in two non-consecutive episodes. - Kogoro - Talk to me - 11:27, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
- A break of one episode hardly counts (they were in the same three-episode arc anyway). As for the examples, Crystal Onix, Silver and Nero (and Orville, I guess) dont count, since they are the COtD's. Same goes for Pink Butterfree, though it's technically more than just a COtD, since it also appeared in Spurt. Riolu and Lucario also appear in the games, and Cheryl was one of Ash's companions, with Mothim apparently being her main anime Pokemon. Puka is more or less just a COtD's Pokemon, but it and the Crystal Onix were probably given pages due to being physically different from others of their species. Vuvuzela2010 Δ 13:12, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
- As Kogs said aboved, every single user has the right to vote. Also, please read the talk page messages carefully, I did give my reason in detail when I voted. ♫♪ エイディニズ ♪♫ 14:10, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
- A break of one episode hardly counts (they were in the same three-episode arc anyway). As for the examples, Crystal Onix, Silver and Nero (and Orville, I guess) dont count, since they are the COtD's. Same goes for Pink Butterfree, though it's technically more than just a COtD, since it also appeared in Spurt. Riolu and Lucario also appear in the games, and Cheryl was one of Ash's companions, with Mothim apparently being her main anime Pokemon. Puka is more or less just a COtD's Pokemon, but it and the Crystal Onix were probably given pages due to being physically different from others of their species. Vuvuzela2010 Δ 13:12, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
- @Vuvuzela2010: Users have every right to simply vote without making a message on this talk page, especially if their rationale has already been stated more than once. This talk page is already getting incredibly bogged down with the exact same arguments repeated over and over. However, it would be ideal (but not required) if they at least mention what argument they agree with in their edit summary. As for CotD pages: Orville*, Puka, Crystal Onix, Pink Butterfree*, Nero*, Aura Sphere Riolu*, arguably Silver (Lugia)* arguably Cheryl's Mothim*, and arguably Riley's Lucario*. One could also argue that Sabrina is not equivalent to a CotD, due to her appearance in two non-consecutive episodes. - Kogoro - Talk to me - 11:27, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
I know the poll has closed, but the problem is not everyone can seem to agree on one. Sabrina had many, but Ash had 7 which is only 4 less. I think we might need to compromise. I do not want to hear "Let's just assume Sabrina is voted by everyone and treat the other 12 opposers like they are insignificant." Remember, 1/2 voted Sabrina and 1/2 against. To me, this is getting a little confusing. Satoshi101 04:29, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
Also, I apologize for moving some people's votes. Now that I'm unblocked, not to sound like a little kid after being grounded, but I've learned my lesson. Satoshi101 04:33, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
- The point is that more people voted for Sabrina's Haunter than any other option so that's where it goes. That's how voting systems work. Werdnae (talk) 04:55, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
What I mean is that if we keep it at Sabrina's Haunter this dispute could be stirred up again. 12 may have voted for Sabrina, but the other 12 were other than Sabrina. I feel that we might need to compromise. If you have any questions, visit my personal talk page; that will ensure I will read it. Satoshi101 22:26, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
Consensus time
Unless someone gathers a consensus, we just look confused and the page stays as it is. We have a clear majority for change, but to Ash's Haunter or Haunter (anime)? I'm quite disappionted that everyone who claims to count consensus has been cutting the numbers. Here are the votes. Please post any comments above this section and leave this sectino just for voting. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 13:10, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
- Ash - 7
- LimeGreenCharizard, Weedle, Ataro, Missingno. Master, Toon Ganondorf, Vuvuzela2010, WatcherMark
- Anime - 5
- Satoshi, Alex, Yoshis World, Truthseeker4449, AquaMaster,
- Sabrina - 13
- Jo, Kenji, The Great Butler, Force Fire, Solar Dragon, Werdnae, Adyniz, Kogoro, MisterE13, Maverick Nate, poke.geek, Pokemaster97, 05308
- With more than 50% of voters wanting to keep it at Sabrina's Haunter, it looks like it's staying here. Case closed. Please do not comment after this line or whine about the decision elsewhere. —darklordtrom 01:26, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
Dark lord, you are NOT the desicion maker here! Toon Ganondorf here is, and he is controlling this sub-section. You are also being rude to us users with opinions. We have the right to agree or disagree. We know this is not a forum, and overall, you're exaggerating. You have been warned. Satoshi101 03:10, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
- Um...... You do know he is an Bulbapedia:Editorial Board member don't you? I believe it's a pretty good idea to just listen and keep thoughts to yourself. --Pokemaster97 03:13, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
- Also, Toon Ganondorf doesn't get to make the decisions. The admins do.--ForceFire 03:16, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
- He's not just a EB member, he is just one level below Deth: the Dutpy EiC. Truthseeker4449 03:23, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
- Cool down fellows. The discussion is over regardless of what Satoshi says. Let's move on, alright? As Trom stated, no more commenting. ★Jo the Marten★ ಠ_ಠ♥ 03:27, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
- He's not just a EB member, he is just one level below Deth: the Dutpy EiC. Truthseeker4449 03:23, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
- Also, Toon Ganondorf doesn't get to make the decisions. The admins do.--ForceFire 03:16, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
- I never made any allusions as to it being my decision, I just said I was organising the tally. I think its fairly clear what the decision is. Whilst I disagree, we have to stand by what the vote (and by extension, the EB) says. If the two were in conflict, it would be different, but I'd say the decision has been reached. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 03:29, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
- So, since the discussion regarding the move is more or less over, will the template be removed, and the page unprotected? Lord Grammaticus 12:07, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Unprotect?
Because the discussion is (finally) over, and even though I slightly disagree with the decision, shouldn't we unprotect the page and remove the "move" template? --☆ヨッシ ー の世界☆ 01:40, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
