Talk:Signature move: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 04:03, 1 November 2021

Elemental Hyper Beams

In Gen. III, only Charizard, Venusaur and Blastoise could learn Blast Burn, Frenzy Plant and Hydro Cannon, respectively. The Johto starters could learn it too, but only by being traded from XD (just like Lugia and Psycho Boost). Should the 3 HB variations be included in this list, since other "former" signature moves are also included?--Darthrai 02:12, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to add it at the bottom of the page, but note that all the fully-evolved starters can learn them in Generation IV. LordArceus 00:11, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

You know, there's not really too much of a point to replying to topics well over a month old. --((Marton imos)) 00:23, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Skarmory?

Should Skarmory with Steel Wing be included here? After all, it is the only Pokemon that can learn it naturally.

That would be a good case to make. Question is, how many others do that? T T Echidna 03:14, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Hitmonlee with Mega Kick Zurqoxn 03:56, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

And I'm sure there are more, like Hitmonchan and Vacuum Wave. I, too, am used to call moves "signature" when they're exclusive to few by leveling up. --Johans 16:55, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

What about Porygon-Z and Trick Room? Though Trick Room is a TM, only Porygon-Z learns it naturally. Tesh 17:55, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

What about Metagross and Meteor Mash? --Mooshykris 22:02, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Clefairy learns Meteor Mash, though...hardly exclusive... --Myrmidom

And Chimchar with Facade, this is the same scenario as Trick Room. Tesh 15:18, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Level-up otherwise exclusive to TMs?

Okay, I just wanted to organize what's been said above. What we have so far is...

TM or HM	Move	Pokémon	Level	Generation
TM01	Focus Punch	Vigoroth	43	III
TM01	Focus Punch	Vigoroth	43	IV
TM21	Frustration	Buneary	13	IV
TM27	Return	Lopunny	13	IV
TM42	Facade	Chimchar	31	IV
TM47	Steel Wing	Skarmory	49	II
			32	III
			38	IV
HM05 (Generation III)	Flash	Volbeat	--	IV
TM70	Flash	Volbeat	--	IV
TM72	Avalanche	Smoochum	31	IV
TM72	Avalanche	Jynx	33	IV
TM92	Trick Room	Porygon-Z	--	IV
HM07	Waterfall	Goldeen	37	I
			38	II
			38	III
			37	IV
HM07	Waterfall	Seaking	39	I
			41	II
			41	III
			40	IV

If anyone thinks of any others, go on and add them in here. T T Echidna 23:54, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

As I said above, Hitmonlee with Mega Kick. Zurqoxn 01:52, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I placed it here so that we stay in a Generation III/IV scope. --Johans 04:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Uh, Raquazza and Fly! Only he learns through level up!--Quick Man 12:57, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

coughs* Salamence. That's like his family's evolution story line. And I think it should be at least mentioned about Abra, and how he only uses Teleport.

Read this Blastoise RULZ 20:03, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Meowth's Pay Day (Generation I's TM16) should probably be in this section as well... Blue Charizard 18:00, 2 April 2010

Level-up otherwise exclusive to Move Tutors?

This might be useful if "signature move" is furtherly redefined. --Johans 04:21, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Move	Pokémon	Level	Generation
Mega Kick	Hitmonlee	53	I
		46	II
		46	III
		49	IV

Level-up otherwise exclusive to breeding?

In the article, Octazooka is listed as being signature of only Octillery, and Present is listed as being signature of only Delibird (just to mention some), which is true only if the definition of "signature moves" includes this type of moves. --Johans 06:06, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Move	Pokémon	Level	Generation
Icicle Spear	Shellder	8	III (FR/LG)
Icicle Spear	Shellder	13	IV
SmellingSalt	Makuhita	31	III
SmellingSalt	Makuhita	22	IV
SmellingSalt	Hariyama	33	III
SmellingSalt	Hariyama	22	IV
Vacuum Wave	Hitmonchan	26	IV

About evolved forms

Should stone-induced evolved forms be listed? Pikachu and Raichu appear in the article. However, the species that actually learns Volt Tackle is Pichu (making the Battle Revolution Pikachu a trivia section material). If Raichu can appear in the list, then Togekiss and Mismagius should, too. --Johans 20:36, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

No, I think that only the Pokémon that learns the move should be listed. So Pichu should be listed, but it's evolutions shouldn't. Only if the evolution learns the move then they an be listed. So both Cubone and Marowak learn Bonemerang, therefore both should be listed. TESHTALK 15:57, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Splash?

Would Splash be eligible for inclusion here? A bunch of Pokémon can learn the move nowadays, but back in Generation I it was very much Magikarp's trademark. A similar case is already included on the list (Petal Dance, which was exclusive to the Oddish line in Generation I). Bikini Miltank 08:48, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

You're right, according to the current status of the article. But I think that kind of moves shouldn't appear in the list. IMO, in any case, Generation III stuff is the only past generation that should be mentioned, as it's compatible with Generation IV, but I still don't like the idea.

I take it this all started with the ExtremeSpeed Dratini from the trivia section, right? Well, that Dratini is obsolete, too. I propose we get rid of ExtremeSpeed Dratini and there won't be need for the ExtremeSpeed Arcanine and the other obsolete groups. --Johans 16:18, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

NO! Lol, we should split this article into each Generation, with a trivia section for Pokémon that do not learn a move naturally. Like Dratini in GenII. I think this would be better. _TESH_TALK _FUN 16:20, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah... one of the things I was going to suggest was listing the likes of Splash, ExtremeSpeed and so on in a seperate table, for moves that were once exclusive to a single line, but aren't anymore. I think these moves are certainly worth mentioning somewhere in the article, as they might still be relevant to someone who's playing any of the older games. Bikini MiltankMoo, I say. 23:33, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

You mean like Blaziken's Blaze Kick? Optimatum♏^Talk|♊Hi 05:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Splash/Magikarp should be there, and Blaze Kick/Blaziken should have been there ages ago! MAGNEDETH TA RID NE DO PT 05:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Magnemite

ok, sorry about that, but i think Zap Cannon should at least be there, other than the TM, only it and Porygon could learn it in Gen II. on that note, hows about Magnet Bomb, which only they and Nosepass/Probopass can learn? MAGNEDETH TA RID NE DO PT 04:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Skay. Magnet Bomb, however.. I think we should add that. Tina^δ♫ 05:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

idk, i still think Zap Cannon should be there. i didnt even know Porygon could learn it untill a few mins ago. MAGNEDETH TA RID NE DO PT 05:06, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

As of GenIV, 13 Pokémon can learn Zap Cannon.. Tina^δ♫ 05:10, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

As in check the Zap Cannon page...Optimatum♏^Talk|♊Hi 05:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

ok, i thought there were notes for previous Gens. MAGNEDETH TA RID NE DO PT 05:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

now wait a minute...Tina agreed that Magnet Bomb should be added as a sig move. besides, the page even says, "can only be learned by a single Pokémon or a very small select group of Pokémon." both Magnemite and Probopass are Steel with magnet-ness. MAGNEDETH TA RID NE DO PT 05:29, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

So? That would mean I had to kick in the kickingfeet Pokémon and the chicken...Reasons:

They don't seem to be related...
Five Pokémon isn't a small group
Tina agreed, so I'm saying the opposite...

Optimatum♏^Talk|♊Hi 05:31, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

well...

they are related, magnet-ness alnog with both lvling up at Coronet
its technically only 2 Pokemon, Magnemite and Probopass, the page lists Mag's evo line and Probopass twice (for some reason)

MAGNEDETH TA RID NE DO PT 05:37, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Ack! You win...Optimatum♏^Talk|♊Hi 05:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

i didnt fight because its Magnemite, i just fought for the truth! that being said, i still think Blaziken should be on there with a note about Gen 3 or somthing. MAGNEDETH TA RID NE DO PT 05:43, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Capitalized please...Hitmonlee and Blaziken seems select enough...Optimatum♏^Talk|♊Hi 05:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Splitting

This page needs to be split up into Generations I think. There are too many prior to Genration IV. TESHIGIGAS 20:44, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

No, No. That's not needed. It's fine how it is. --Theryguy 5 1 2 21:22, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

But then we could sychronise the trivia into it as well. TESHIGIGAS

18:11, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Small group?

Since Mathis seems to have decided to take a chainsaw to the list, I have to ask: How big is a "small group" of Pokémon? - Cassius335 12:24, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

small group denotes 2 evo lines. so, as seen above, with Magnet Bomb, only two pokemon can learn it, with the exception of their own evos. -- MAG NE DETH 19:31, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Ok. *points at the top of the page* What about Meteor Mash then? - Cassius335 00:45, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

well, somone should add that to the page. along with the others in my opinion. though, it could be argued that Math earlier had the right idea. super exclusive only. -- MAG NE DETH 00:55, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Staryu

In Generation III, Staryu was the only Pokemon who could learn Camouflage. Mothim can now learn it in Gen IV. Nevertheless, I would assume that Staryu would count as a Pokémon with a signature move before Gen IV. -TIMMY

Added. Zurqoxn 20:31, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Really, exactly two Pokemon knowing a move is still pretty exclusive. - Cassius335 09:07, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

We're still missing Mothim on there though...I guess I'll add it unless anyone has any objections...ht14 00:35, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Skitty

Well, Skitty (and Delecatty, but Skitty Evolves into that) were the only ones to know assist until Generation IV, I think Skitty deserves a mention (Delecatty doesn't scince she only learns VIA from Skitty knowing before evelution).--Quick Man 13:26, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup

This article NEEDS some cleanup... some signature moves don't make sense and some are in a lot of pokemon, so they should be removed. I think if a pokemon prior to Gen IV now learns a GEN IV move, it shouldn't be mentioned, 'cause it's obvious that another pokemon will learn the same move (for example Relicanth that learns Cranidos' signature. in that case Relicanth should be removed). If someone doesn't agree with me, then just undo it. hfc 2X 00:47, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

It's fine. PL 12 00:48, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

It's fine if it's only one or two different evolution families. TTEchidna 04:04, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Crush Grip

What about the Combusken who has Crush Grip in PBR - unsigned comment from Tannerbro (talk • contribs)

That Combusken is unobtainable hfc 2X 18:15, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I have seen no proof that exsits. Can someone (an admin) hide that comment until there is a picture or video shown so we can back up such a far fetched claim? The Placebo Effect 02:47, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

No, hiding comments is virtually the same as deleting them, which isn't allowed. ^Moldy _Orange 02:48, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm actually now wondering if this person was mistaking Crush Grip for the breedable Crush Claw... TTEchidna 01:14, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Meteor Mash

Meteor Mash should definitely be included, like only 2 pokémon lines can learn it, and like skull bash, is listed here which also has 2 pokémon lines so why shouldn't Meteor Mash be? And why is some Hitmonlee's and other POkemon's moves are asterixed when Medicham later on has Hi Jump Kick and isnt asterixed?? It should only be asterixed when the sig move has gone completely over eg extremespeed which the others rayquaza etc arent listed... ... --<large> "[[User:WoWy|<font color="blue";>WoWy</font>]]"</large>''([[User talk:Wowy|<font color="green";>><</font>]])'' 05:45, 23 July 2008 (UTC)Wowy

I think this article is the most controvesrial thing... I think that a signature move should be a move that onle ONE Pokémon learns... I mean these are the REAL signature moves:

Volt Tackle (Pikachu family)
Pay Day (Meowth)
Kinesis (Kadabra and Alakazam)
Barrage (Exeggcute family)
Bone Club (Cubone and Marowak)
Lovely Kiss (Smoochum and Jynx)
Conversion, Conversion2 and Sharpen (Porygons)
Spider Web (Spinarak and Ariados)
Pain Split (Misdreavus)
Octazooka (Octillery)
Present (Delibird)
Sketch (Smeargle)
Triple Kick (Hitmontop)
Milk Drink (Miltank)
Aeroblast (Lugia)
Sacred Fire (Ho-Oh)
Arm Thrust (Makuhita and Hariyama)
Teeter Dance (Spinda)
Poison Tail (Seviper)
Ice Ball (Spheal family)
Mist Ball (Latias)
Luster Purge (Latios)
Doom Desire (Jirachi)
Psycho Boost (Deoxys)
Attack, Defend and Heal Orders (Vespiqueen)
Chatter (Chatot)
Rock Wrecker (Rhyperior)
Roar of Time (Dialga)
Spacial Rend (Palkia)
Magma Storm (Heatran)
Crush Grip (Regigigas)
Shadow Force (Giratina)
Lunar Dance (Cresselia)
Heart Swap (Manaphy)
Dark Void (Darkrai)
Seed Flare (Shaymin)
Judgement (Arceus)

Any other move should not be in the list, because more than a family learns it. Remember that a signature is something that's from your own and no one else. That's why repeated moves should not be in the list. hfc 2X 18:15, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with this. Also, Bonemerang is another exclusive move to the Cubone family. ~$aturn¥oshi ^{THE VOICES} 18:55, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Moves

I'll add Splash becoz only Magikarp had Splash in Gen I with an asterix sign, while Meteor Mash also becoz there are some moves listed here that have more than one move per pokémon, usally two. And who said that only one family needs a signature move and when it has two it's not. I've never seen any official guide saying that. And Icicle Spear, Smelligsalt and Vacuum Wave I'll add becoz Octazooka is here which can also be bred. These moves are VERY free to undo if u wish. Oh and i'll add assist with an asterix as only skitty can learn in Gen III--Wowy 07:17, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Signature moves can be bred, that's obvious, but no Pokémon can normally learn them. This article NEEDS to be redone. 'nuff said. hfc 2X 12:56, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

waterfall

I see someone's cleaned it up but waterfall should be included but with an * coz ONLY goldeen and seaking learnt in Gen I coz it wasnt a TM/HM there could be more moves like this--Wowy 23:47, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

I also noticed mimic is a signatre move for sudowoodo, however in ONLY generation II because in Generation I it was a TM, I'm not sure about MIMIC--Wowy 23:50, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

What about featherDance?--Wowy 06:15, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Fact

Could someone add that signature moves are recommended for the pokemon learning them. Also, you forgot about the legendaries. - unsigned comment from Xknight 511 (talk • contribs)

In some cases they aren't. Take for example Ho-Oh in Gen II and III. He has Higher Attack than Sp. Atk, but his Signature move focuses in Sp. Atk. So it depends on the trainer. hfc 2X 07:01, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorted by generation?

How ab out instead of making it so pokemon has a note saying when the move isn't signature, we make a page or section on this page for each generation? The Placebo Effect 15:22, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Do you mean have sections like "Signature moves in Generation I" and "Signature moves in Generation II"? If so, I think that's a great idea. Baby G 15:39, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I think that' s very good idea too. Rikki Kitsune 19:28, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

I've been working on this for the past month, using a Word document. But it hasn't been going so well. You see, some signature moves just came off the top of my head, but I'm having trouble remembering whether or not there are any signature moves other than the ones in my document. But don't fear, I'll get it finished soon. --Baby G (talk to me) (see my edits) 20:58, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Unprotect please

Kenji-girl protected this article because she was losing in the edit war. I told her that I promise to stop edit warring, but she's completely ignoring me. Can someone please unprotect this article? Baby G 15:38, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Platinum

Should i add Platinum signature moves, coz I added scyther with Vacuum Wave and somone took it off... Look at Serebii and it says it can learn it...--WowyXD \⁄!!!-talk 07:08, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, yeah Serebii knows lots of things, but he isn't very relliable at times... and you NEED to fix your signature!!! hfc 2X 22:48, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually, Scyther can learn Vacuum Wave via the move relearner in Pastoria, so it is indeed one of Scyther's moves.--*River* *Aura* 00:53, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Camouflage

Why Camouflage is here? It can be learned by two pokémon --CorsolaSplash 18:32, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

As long as it's learnable by a relative few Pokémon (out of 493, two is VERY few), it goes here. I don't know where we should put the threshold, however, but as long as less than 1% of all Pokémon learn a move (not counting their evolutions) it should go here. TTEchidna 01:16, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I kinda think it should be limited to one evolution family, ESPECIALLY if two very unrelated Pokémon (like Scyther and Hitmonlee as mentioned with Vacuum Wave above) both know the move. If you think that's too extreme/harsh, maybe if two somewhat similar Pokémon both know the move (like if they have common design elements or something). ←{Berrymaster|Talk|Contrib}→ 01:24, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Moves only count as signature moves if only one Pokémon are one evolution family can learn them. Besides, Hitmonchan and Scyther aren't the only 2 Pokémon that can legitimatelly have Vacuum Wave. About 30 others can learn it from the Platinum tutor. --Baby G (talk to me) (see my edits) 21:01, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, that brings up a similar issue... moves that can be learned other than level-up by many, but level-only for a few. TTEchidna 21:06, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

I used to think that level up was all that counted, but about a month ago, Kenji-girl said that other methods (breeding, TMs, etc.) do count when it comes to signature moves. So Vacuum Wave has actually never been Hitmonchan's signature move, since several others could learn it by breeding before Platinum. --Baby G (talk to me) (see my edits) 21:48, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Transform?

Why signature move of Ditto and Mew is the Transform (which is written), a Fly isn't a signature move of Salamence and Rayquaza. Era64 11:29, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, for Ditto at least, Transform is its only move. Mew just has that "DNA of all Pokémon in it" deal that lets him transform.- unsigned comment from Phred (talk • contribs)

But it's not a signature move, since more than one Pokémon learns it by level, and Mew and Ditto aren't in an evolution family. --Cho col ate 20:31, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

It's still a small group of Pokemon. So it's limited to who can learn it. Also once again I think this needs to be split into generations. TESHIGIGAS 20:55, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

But Kenji-girl said that signature moves are moves only learned by one Pokémon, or one evolution family. "Small groups" don't count unless they're in the same evolution family. Also, I've been working on generation splitting for a while now, and I'm almost done. --Cho col ate 20:59, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

It does say at the beggining of the page that they can only be learned by a single Pokémon or a very small select group of Pokémon. So Mew and Transform should be on there. If it's like 3 Pokemon in different evolution families and it can be bred into others, then it isn't a signature move really. And thank you for splitting this into generations (when you're done!). TESHIGIGAS 21:11, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, okay, maybe Transform isn't Mew's signature move, but it's surely Ditto's. I mean, it's the ONLY thing it can do. --Phred 23:50, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Lucario

Aura Sphere----Ultamatecharizard 17:47, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

No. Several others can use it as well. --((Marton imos)) 23:53, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

ya but some Pokémon can use other signature moves and pretty much every Lucario in the anime knows it,and I'm not sure why Togekiss learns it all other Pokémon that learn it because their legendary I mean Chimchar gets Blaze Kick by breeding but it's still Blazikens move------AMERICAN ELECTION TODAY!

Sigh....This is because Blaziken was the only one that could learn it until Gen IV... ^ht 14 19:13, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Lucario is no more Legendary than Togekiss. Not even more rare. --PLA 07:26, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Stop Removing Relicanth, Cranidos, Rampardos, and Mothim

I quote, from the top of the page: "Signature moves are moves that can only be learned by a single Pokémon or a very small select group of Pokémon by level-up (with the exception of Pikachu's Volt Tackle), usually in the same evolutionary line." So stop removing it, ok? The Dark Fiddler - You enter a poorly lit room... 20:12, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand the idea behind "signature moves" in many evolutionary lines. Okay then, add there every other move that is in very few movepools. You, go then add Hoppip's Splash in Gen II (there was IIRC only Hoppip and Magikarp back then), Rayquaza's Extremespeed in Gen III and every friggin other move that is in 2 or 3 movepools, okay? Happy hunting, though it won't change my mind about the fact that the introduction there is wrong. UltimateSephiroth ^{(about me · chat · edits)} 20:15, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Maybe they should be there; I'm personally too lazy to hunt them, and would rather either A) Keep it like it is, or B) get the intro changed, which is what you should do if you think its wrong. The Dark Fiddler - You enter a poorly lit room... 20:18, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I'd do the B) if I could, but I can't be sure which way (one family or few families) is more common among players and therefore my edit would be opinionated. UltimateSephiroth ^{(about me · chat · edits)} 20:22, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't know where the small group of Pokémon came from. That wasn't my idea of a signature move when I created this page. Maybe if the Pokémon were physically alike it would be okay. But Relicanth, Cranidos, and Mothim have nothing in common. Two different families should be the max if at all. Definitely not three. --ケンジの ガール 22:13, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

It is two families: Relicanth and Cranidos for Head something or other; Mothim's being removed for a different move, Camoflouge or however its spelled. The Dark Fiddler - You enter a poorly lit room... 22:15, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Either way, either Relicanth needs to be added because it also knows Head Smash (and is more adept at using it due to Rock Head) or Cranidos/Ramparados need to be removed.--JacobCrystal 16:15, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

This page is in need of SERIOUS clean-up.

Some moves are counted as signature when they're limited to one Pokémon. Some are counted when they're limited to two Pokémon. Some three Pokémon. Where's the limit? I think two families should be the most.(Branched families are fine.) I'd prefer only one family, but I'll accept anything, just agree on something.

Some moves are counted as "signature" if they're limited to one(or a few) Pokémon NATURALLY...other moves are counted if they're limited OVERALL. I think that TMs/HMs/tutors/"bonus" moves should not matter, Waterfall is still Goldeen and Seaking's signature move. I'd accept the other way too, but it needs to be CONSISTENT.

Not to mention a few of the asterisks are wrong...and some without asterisks could use some. Or it could be split to generations, but I think asterisks work just fine.

The Pikachu that knows Volt Tackle doesn't need to be in the one-off section. Yes, it's only Pichu's signature move...but Pikachus can normally learn it by evolving from Pichu! Pikachu shouldn't be in the table, that is correct, but it doesn't need to be in the one-off either. That should be for examples that COULD NOT happen otherwise, like the Dratini with ExtremeSpeed.Flint A 20:09, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

My opinion is that if a move can be learned by any or all of the Pokémon of one family naturally or by TM, it is a signature move. If a move is shared with an other family or it is a TM that can be used or a move tutor move that can be taught on more than the family in question, it is not a signature move. Event Pokémon are obviously excluded. UltimateSephiroth ^{(about me · chat · edits)} 22:48, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

That sounds fine to me, a more "exclusive" definition of signature move. Although if something was a signature move at one point, I'd expect it there with an asterisk. The most important thing is that a definition is made. "More is lost by indecision than by wrong decision."Flint A 11:03, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

GrassWhistle

In GenerationIII, Roselia was the only one who could learn GrassWhistle by leveling up(to lv 29). There are many other pokemon that can learn it now in Generation IV, but it used to be a move unique only to Roselia(by level up). --PKFL 531 01:38, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Removing moves

Before I edit the actual page, I want to see if everyone agrees to this.

I was thinking of removing the following moves since they're "Signature" titles are questionable:

Yes yes, I know that's quite a lot of moves to pick out. But let's be honest, These moves are a little too common to be "Signature" thanks to other Pokémon showing up or Pokémon learning said moves via Breeding, Level up, Move tutor, TM/HM etc.

If you don't agree with this, I'll ignore this. Or if you want only a specific move or two gone, I'll only get rid of those instead.- unsigned comment from Ninterror (talk • contribs)

Personally, I think it might be better to either do away with this article, or sort in into 4 articles, one for each generaton RB Golbat 20:37, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the idea of splitting them up as these moves were all once signature moves. Turt wig A Contributions Talk 00:53, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Why make a whole other article? It says in the asterisk that it was "Prior to Generation X". Just leave it as it is. --ケンジの ガール 02:46, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Many of those moves are already noted as being signature moves prior to a Generation, as the person above said. However, Beat Up, Crush Claw, Pain Split, Feather Dance, Assist and Extrasensory, are different. They're signature moves in that only a select few Pokémon learn by level up, but can be taught in other ways. In the "Other signature move examples" section, such things are noted, where a move is learned by more than one Pokémon but only by one by level up. I say we move the mentioned moves to a whole new section for "Level Up Signature Moves", where we list the signature moves if we go by moves learned through level and not by tutor or TM or breeding. Drake Clawfang 05:32, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Blast Burn, Frenzy Plant and Hydro Cannon

I would just like to say that I have finally added the elemental hyper beams to the bottom of the page. Feel free to delete it if you like, but I do think that this edit would help the bulbapedia community. ----GEN1KING ([[User talk:TALK]]) 06:12, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

I would disagree here. The signature moves of Charizard, Venusaur, and Blastoise have always been and will always be Flamethrower, SolarBeam, and Hydro Pump, respectively. SSBB even confirms that Charizard's signature move is Flamethrower (not Blast Burn). Andros 1337 18:13, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

In most cases I would agree with you, but by the definition f signature move on Bulbapedia, that is extremely inacurate. Though true in a certain sense, Blastoise is not the only pokémon to learn Hydro Pump, and same goes for the rest. Also, no offense, but Super Smash Bros. Trophies are not exactly the most reliable source for canon information :p --GEN1KING 06:50, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Former Signature moves!

We should have a section for Pokémon who's moves used to be signature moves, instead of keeping them with the other Pokémon. --Kimori Geckarbor Hinoarashi 13:48, 12 December 2009 (UTC) User talk:Kimori-Hinoarashi "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." - Adam Savage, after being proven wrong.--Mythbusters

Overhaul

Alright, I went for it and changed the main body to only refer to Generation IV signature moves. The list of former signature moves near the bottom might be better as some sort of table, but I'm not good at making tables and it wouldn't be like just copying the first table, as we'd need "unsignature" dates. Also, that list should not be considered comprehensive; it's just the ones that were there already plus the ones from the old list. There might be some missing.

The only controversial change I think is that I specifically limited signature moves to one evolutionary family only, but I seem to see quite a bit of support for that on the talk page and I feel it's the only sensible decision myself. --Yoshi348 20:04, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

just because you "see the support" doesnt mean you just do it, you dont have that power. it has to be definitively discussed for sure. i have undone your edits, but barring a proper definitive discussion, it can be re-added. i want to see what people think in an uncluttered manor. i personally dont see a huge problem in your way, but i also think we can find a better, cleaner layout than yours. -- MAG NE DETH 20:16, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Phantom asterisk

Pokemon that had their signature moves learned by other Pokemon with the coming of a new generation were marked with an asterisk. There wasn't a note at the bottom saying what the asterisk was for, but rather one of those things you highlight (dunno what that's called). We should at least have a note in addition to it. Flyingtypefan 00:00, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Arcanine's ExtremeSpeed.

Shouldn't it say "Prior to Generation II"? It currently says "Prior to generation III". --PLA 16:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

No, it was Arcanine's sig move prior to gen II, that is, before gen II. Extremespeed didn't exist prior to gen II - unsigned comment from Malake256 (talk • contribs)

Right. I forgot the distinction between Crystal and Gen. II. It was unique to Arcanine "Prior to Crystal". --PLA 07:19, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Metronome

Signature moves can be moved by any pokemon knowing Metronome. My Togepi used metronome, and used Doom Desire! Panther2598 thats kind of obvious i mean metronome uses a random move from every move existing in a generation and they never said that they couldn't be used they just said that they can't be learned Juarmo 05:06, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Oath of Fire, Water and Grass

Do you think we should add that?-444 Z ekrom 04:23, 03 September 2010 (UTC)

We should wait until the games are released. For all we know, they could be used by the other starters similar to the elemental Hyper Beams. --ケンジの ガール 07:18, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Blast Burn, Frenzy Plant, and Hydro Cannon again

In Generation III, since Charizard, Venusaur, and Blastoise are the only ones who could learn those techniques, they are considered signature moves in that sense yes? So shouldn't they be added to the list and mentioned on the respective moves articles?--Darknesslover5000 05:32, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

I'll take it. Move tutor?--444 Z ekrom 10:15, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

They were only the only ones to learn those moves until Pokemon XD came out, which is still third-gen. --HeroicJay 10:23, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Hmm... Prior to XD? Hahaha...--444 Z ekrom 07:43, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

I think it's better not to take XD in consideration, because that game has distributed multiple signature moves, like Psycho Boost or Extrasensory. So I would say prior to generation IV--Grrgrrgrr1000 10:40, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

"prior to gen ..." signature moves

If, according to te article, Signature moves are by definition only learned by either a single Pokémon or a small group of Pokémon, then a lot of the moves listed that say they were signature moves prior to a certain generation were still signature moves, (in cases such as extemespeed, for at least until the generation after) as the definition in no way implies that the pokémon that can learn it have to be related by evolution it just states either that the move can be learned only as a level up move and even then, only by a small number of Pokémon or that the move can only be learned by level up by a small number of pokémon (in which case almost all, if not all are still signature moves). because even though the way the definition is phrased it can be rephrased either way it most certainly can't be rephrased both ways because they are different from meanings from eachother but are synonyms to different definitions of the phrase that defines signature moves. Juarmo 05:07, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Ultimate Starter Type Moves

techinically, the elemental hyper beams would be no less signature moves of the gen 1 starter evolutions in gen 3 than deoxys and its psycho boost (as purified shadow Lugia knew it). In fact, probably less of one as you catch the Lugia but you recieve the XD Jhoto starters from an event (albeit an in game one but still) also if Oddish and Glooms signature that ceased to be a signature by Gen 2 is on the list shouldn't arcanine and his extremespeed be on the list too. if i remember correctly dragon's den dratini didn't count towards extremespeed not still being arcanine's signature move in gen 2 so why should the XD Jhoto starters they're both in game events. Juarmo 23:28, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Shadow Signature Moves

I think it should be noted that Shadow Bolt, Shadow Chill, Shadow Fire and Shadow Blast are Zapdos, Articuno, Moltres and Shadow Lugia Signature Moves in Pokémon XD. --★Criққѳ~* 16:52, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Clamp was another one of the Shellder line's signature moves...

...Until Gen III that is. Could somebody add this? - 050294 01:21, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Another idea

I had an idea for a new column. I would like to mention what kind of signature move they are.

Exclusive means: Only available to the poke himself, or the evolutionary line of that poke.
Limited means: A few other pokes can learn it as well by leveling up or by breeding.
LU exclusive means: The move is exclusive to a certain poke line by leveling up, but several other pokes can learn it by breading or tutoring.
Common means: The move is now available to a plenty of pokes. Only mentioned if the move used to be exclusive.
N/A means: it didn't exist that gen.

#		Name	Move	Gen I	Gen II	Gen III	Gen IV	Gen V
015		Beedrill	Twineedle	Exclusive Lv. 20	Exclusive lv. 20	Exclusive lv. 20	Exclusive lv. 16	Limited lv. 16

--Grrgrrgrr1000 10:40, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Limited would not be implemented; signature move means it is limited to an individual or family, so those are former signature moves. Level up exclusive is possible, but I don't think it should be implemented. --SnorlaxMonster 11:24, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Levels

It's not clear from which game the levels are. I also don't see the point of noting the levels. --Grrgrrgrr1000 10:41, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Victini

for the 14th Movie it was said that an event Victini would be given out have the move V-Generate and Ball of Fire, as V-Generate is currently a move only an event Victini can know, should it be put in the 'one-off signature moves' section? Azure42 15:38, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

My definition of 'Signature Move'

I say the definition should be "A move that a Pokémon is best known for." As a result, this means that a move that is common can be the signature move of another Pokémon (for example, Rollout can be learned by several different kinds of Pokémon, but Geodude's evolutionary family may have it as their signature move, because Graveler is said to use it often down mountains in Firered's description of it). Another example is Psycho Cut - Gallade would most likely have the attack as its signature move had this description of signature move been used. --Psyblade 18:43, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

I think it's a very good point, however, Pokédex entries sometimes state misleading facts, such as Dusclops learning Hypnosis, which it actually can't. So, although a good definition of "signature move", I don't think it's good enough to point Pokédex entries in the article. hfc 2X 23:59, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Trivia?

The trivia says, that Vespiquen is the only Pokémon with 3 signature moves, while the same is true for Kyurem (as the table says). Shouldn't it be edited? --KingisNitro 08:46, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

No, because Kyurem can't actually learn Ice Burn or Freeze Shock. They are speculated to be its signature moves. --SnorlaxMonster 08:58, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Cubone and Marowak

Both of these are only listed under Former Signature Moves, however both have two current signature moves. Bone Rush, out. Bone Club and Bonemerang, good. So why aren't Cubone and Marowak under the current signature moves? Ikarishipper900 01:10, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Current definition is SERIOUSLY flawed!

The current definition of signature move here is seriously flawed. The definition should be the move the Pokémon is most known for, not any random move that is exclusive to it. While at times moves that a Pokémon is most known for may also be exclusive to it (such as Smeargle's Sketch), that is not always the case. For example, even though Charizard was the only Pokémon able to learn Blast Burn prior to XD, Charizard is never shown using it in any Pokémon media; usually Charizard is shown using Flamethrower, and in the anime, Seismic Toss. Furthermore, Charizard is a Gen I Pokémon, and it is absurd to say that a Gen III move is its signature move, considering Charizard predates Gen III.

I really think the definition should be corrected here. Andros 1337 00:05, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

I don't think it's flawed at all. A signature move exclusive to that Pokémon. Meaning that the move can only be learned by that Pokémon. While Rollout is well know for a Miltank for example that doesn't make it a signature move. Sketch is a signature move because only one Pokémon can learn it and that is Smergle. This was discussed before. --Pokemaster 97 00:09, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Random move? How is it a random move when it's a move that can only be learned by a single Pokémon or its family? Just because a certain move is showed off more by a certain Pokémon does not mean it's its signature. Signature refers to a Pokémon's exclusive move which means it can only be learned by a certain Pokémon or at a certain time.

Your definition seems to be judged by what you have seen in the anime which is biased to all other media. All things should relate to the game which are used universally. Might as well say BubbleBeam is Piplup's signature move and Thunderbolt is Pikachu's. --ケンジの ガール 00:18, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

What about Ditto's Transform, which is obviously Ditto's signature move because it is Ditto's ONLY move, despite the fact that Mew can learn Transform as well? The fact is, Charizard is never shown using Blast Burn in the anime or any other Pokémon media besides the main games. Also, consider that Blast Burn is a tutored move, not a level-up move. Andros 1337 00:46, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Plus, SSB confirms Flamethrower as Charizard's signature move. Andros 1337 00:54, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Leveling up has nothing to do with it. Volt Tackle is an egg move that is bred on to Pichu. There's also Meloetta who can only learn its signature move through tutoring. And again, the amount of times the move is shown in the anime has nothing to do with it. In the defense of Transform, Mew has the capability of learning every move through the move tutor in XD from Generation III and below. Though I'll give you that Mew can learn that one by level up. Not to mention that it's Ditto's only move. --ケンジの ガール 01:03, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Also, SSB is not a true Pokémon game to be taking sources from... It's Charizard signature move in that game, not in the Pokémon games. --ケンジの ガール 01:03, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

So, could you tell me what was Charizard's signature move in Gens I and II? The definition of the word "signature" does not mean "exclusive", it means what the Pokémon is most notable for. Andros 1337 06:27, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Another example: Take a look at Vaporeon and Jolteon. Obviously their signature moves are Acid Armor and Pin Missile, respectively, as confirmed by their Pokédex entries. However, even in Gen I, Grimer and Muk were able to learn Acid Armor as well, and Beedrill was able to learn Pin Missile. If those aren't Vaporeon's and Jolteon's signature moves, I don't know what else can be. Andros 1337 06:31, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

See... the thing is Flamethrower can be other Pokémon's most known move. Every single Fire-type can learn it in some way. It's not so signature when so many other Pokémon can use it too.

None of Vaporeon's and Jolteon's Pokédex entries say that Acid Armor and Pin Missile are their signature moves. --ケンジの ガール 06:47, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

While they don't mention the moves by name, they mention that Vaporeon can melt into water, and that Jolteon can raise its fur to pierce foes. That implies Acid Armor and Pin Missile, respectively. Andros 1337 15:20, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

I think you're not understanding here. Not all Pokémon have signature moves. A signature move is a move only that Pokémon or it's family can learn. Examples: Meowth Pay Day Chansey and Blissy Softboiled, The Porygon family Conversion and Conversion 2. This is what a signature move is. Your argument is incorrect. --Pokemaster 97 15:26, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

No, that is your own interpretation of a signature move, which is clearly defective for the reasons I gave above. Unless we find an official source confirming your interpretation is correct, it is nothing but a fan implication. Andros 1337 18:16, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Your last comment applies equally to your own definition. I suggest you take a step back and calm down. Also, signature, used as an adjective implies distinctiveness, not commonness. Thus, the current definition is correct to the meaning of the word, so you will need very strong official evidence in order for it to change. Werdnae (talk) 20:17, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

I don't feel like the definition is flawed, but maybe an allowance for Ditto would be nice. Ikarishipper900 15:52, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Clefairy and Meteor Mash

I don't understand this. In the Other signature move examples section, it says: "Although Clefairy can learn Meteor Mash by leveling up in any Generation III game, the only Pokémon that were able to learn it legally before release of FireRed and LeafGreen were Metang and its evolved form, Metagross." However, the Metang, Meteor Mash, and Clefairy articles don't make any mention of this, and the sentence itself doesn't make any sense. --Enervation 23:43, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

It's saying that since you couldn't get Clefairy until FRLG came out, despite that Clefairy can learn Meteor Mash in RS, Clefairy couldn't because there weren't any Clefairy in RS. Bluesun 00:38, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

New design

I'm REALLY liking the new template, but I think it could use a little more organization. Like, either we organize them by number (the only ones not by number are the ones grouped with their cross-generational evolutions), or by the generation in which they gained their signature move (then by number). I'm not sure...what does everyone think? LimeGreenCharizard♂ 16:35, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

I agree it should be done by Ndex number. It's too jumbled and a little confusing as it is. If someone wanted to look for Pikachu, they have to go down to Pichu, and that's just sloppy. ^★Jo the Marten^★ ಠ_ಠ ♥ 16:43, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I agree with what was said above. It is kind of confusing. Ndex would be a little more organized. --Pokemaster 97 16:45, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

How about making the columns sortable? Also the Pikachu line's placement was something I forgot to fix, so I'll move them to 025. Pikiwyn ^talk 16:57, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Sortable sounds fine to me. ^★Jo the Marten^★ ಠ_ಠ ♥ 17:01, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

V-create still a signature move?

Now that Rayquaza knows V-create via event (the same way that Victini learns it), is V-create still Victini's signature move, is it both Victini's and Rayquaza's, or is it not a signature move at all? Personally, I'd remove it from the list for now, since now it's a one-off move for both Victini and Rayquaza. --Darthrai 19:35, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

You make a lot of sense, and I'd certainly wait for more people to weigh in. However, I think that the name of V-Create certainly points it to it being a signature move of Victini, since many things about Victini are closely associated with the letter V. There isn't really a set standard to which we can hold a "signature move," so I think claiming its status as "debatable" is appropriate. --P o L i 20:27, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

There's a bunch a moves on the list that are like that. Why change it now? Personally, I don't think we should change the status of a signature move just because of an event. They do that all the time. Like the Victini from the movie with Zekrom and Reshiram's moves and the Lugia from XD with Deoxys's move. Rayquaza cannot normally get that move and unless it is normal, then we shouldn't worry about it. --ケンジの ガール 00:22, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Just realized V-create is the move Victini only knows by event as well. Just still, to me it was obviously made for it. --ケンジの ガール 00:24, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Agreed - V-create was made for Victini (and I think that I made that clear on the page), but neither Victini nor Rayquaza can learn it through normal gameplay (both of them learn it via event). As for it being a signature move because it was made for Victini, I think Megahorn presents a similar case (though not to the same degree). It was made for Heracross in Generation II (why else would a generic horn attack be Bug-type?) until they made all sorts of other Pokémon, both old and new, able to learn it in future generations. Now, V-create is much more "characteristic" of Victini and probably won't become a widespread move, but having aesthetics and themes associated with a certain Pokémon doesn't seem like a criterion for being a signature move at the moment according to the page's description (we can always change it though). Darthrai 04:15, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

I personally don't feel it applies to what the meaning of signature move is as it says it can be learned by level up or other means. Think of it this way. If Relic Song is given by event to another Pokémon, say Cresselia, does that mean it's not Meloetta's signature move anymore because it doesn't learn it by level up even though that's what changes its form? Some common sense should be used in these instead of following the definition so strictly. If the Pokémon itself has an obvious connection to the move we should take that into consideration. --ケンジの ガール 00:35, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Which is why I had to revert Darthrai and MisterE13--SandmanDP 00:37, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually, it's not as simple as that. The thing is, Meloetta can learn Relic Song via tutor; if the same tutor could be used to teach it to Cresselia, I wouldn't personally consider it Meloetta's signature move anymore (since they can both obtain the move on equally favorable terms). However, if Cresselia got the move via event, I'd still personally consider it Meloetta's signature move, since Meloetta obtains it on more favorable terms. Right now, Victini and Rayquaza both know V-create on equally favorable terms (a one-off move for both Pokémon); however, you're right that we should consider if the Pokémon has an obvious connection to the move, so we should make that clear. (In Relic Song's case, it helps that, unlike V-create, it doesn't scream "THIS MOVE BELONGS TO MELOETTA".) Darthrai 19:05, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

You're still not making any sense. Relic Song is Meloetta's, and V-create is Victini's. Roar of Time and Spacial Rend are Dialga and Palkia's respectively despite movie 10 Dialga and movie 12 Arceus. Please stop dragging this--SandmanDP 19:08, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

And Dialga and Palkia know Roar of Time and Spacial Rend via level-up, whereas Darkrai and Arceus only know it via event. It's not the same. Still, the current definition and status is good, I just think it's worth noting that Rayquaza and Victini both get V-create through similar methods despite it being Victini's signature move. I don't think this has ever happened before, especially since event-exclusive moves only debuted this generation.Darthrai 19:19, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

It is very much the same. Darkrai and Arceus learn it by equal means... Please stop. V-Create is Victini's signature move and happens to lend it to Rayquaza ONCE. Doesn't mean V-Create isn't Victini's signature movI'd also like to point out

"Also, some of these moves can be passed down via breeding to other Pokémon or are known by certain event Pokémon". Case closed. --SandmanDP 19:21, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Sure, but if we go a long time without this kind of thing happening again (event-exclusive signature moves being known by both the Pokémon they're intended for and another Pokémon on equal terms), maybe the issue can be revisited.Darthrai 19:31, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't have to be revisited. Leave it alone. Admins have already spoken on the matter and say to leave it alone--SandmanDP 19:33, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

I meant like several years or when Gen VI comes around with more event-exclusive moves. When I said "a long time", I meant "a long time" and that I don't think it's worth starting any further arguments at this point in Pokémon event history (so I'm leaving it alone) Oh well, in any case it's just one minor piece of stating the obvious about one event, I shouldn't have made a big deal about it.--Darthrai 19:34, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

By the definition of signature move, V-create is not Victini's signature move. However, it is a move that is associated with Victini. So based on Victini's associations with the move, you could say that it is its "signature move", but that is not the definition of signature move. To keep the definition firm, we cannot consider it to be Victini's signature move unless it learns it via a method other than event, like how we didn't consider it Victini's signature move until it was distributed with it. So what should happen is this; V-create should not be listed as a signature move of Victini, but it should most certainly be listed under "Other signature move examples". --SnorlaxMonster 14:54, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Can I suggest that, perhaps, V-Create isn't a Signature Move, so much as an Event Move? It's a move that cannot be known by any pokemon except perhaps via an Event, at least at a certain point. Another example would be Volt Tackle, which, until the release of Pokemon Emerald, couldn't be learned by any pokemon, or Kinesis, which couldn't be learned by any pokemon until Pokemon Yellow. Note that an "Event Move" wouldn't necessarily have been released via Event, it's just that, without an event, it would be unavailable up to a certain time (this could include moves only found as egg moves up to a certain point, if any exist). And on a side note, if a pokemon uses Metronome, and then Smeargle Sketches it, will it learn Metronome, or the resulting move? I ask because, if Smeargle sketches the metronomed move, then it would be possible for it to sketch Volt Tackle in RS/FRLG, or V-Create in DP. Aielyn 15:19, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Another example of an Event move is a little more literal than the others - Snarl. At this time, it is only available through obtaining an Event Zoroark, and then breeding it to other pokemon from there. However, once another event, the Lock Capsule, is made available, it will be available as a TM... but still, it's an Event Move, since you need an event to access it in either case. Aielyn 06:56, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Those are more "delayed release moves" than "event" moves. And I don't think it is really that relevant (by your definition, Kinesis is both a signature move and an "event move"). And to answer your question, Smeargle will Sketch Metronome. --SnorlaxMonster 12:48, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Isn't "delayed release" just another word for "event", in this context? After all, you can catch Mew in Emerald, but you can't do so until a delayed release event. When Ruby/Sapphire were released, one couldn't legitimately get Volt Tackle. Not knowing how they'd give you access to the move, wouldn't it be reasonable to consider it an event-exclusive move? That the "event" ended up being "the release of Emerald" is irrelevant to this point. And yes, Kinesis would be both an event move and a signature move - nothing wrong with that. It was an event move in Red/Blue, and then a signature move after that. Volt Tackle was an event move in RS/FRLG, and a signature move after that. V-Create is currently an event move. It may happen that, with the "third version" release, Victini will be able to learn V-Create by move tutor or level up, in which case it would be a signature move. Until the move can be "learned", it really can't be called a signature move. It is speculated that the move was made for Victini, but it's only speculation, it hasn't been confirmed. It's entirely possible that, come the next pokemon game, it will be Rayquaza that learns it naturally, and not Victini... would that make it a Rayquaza signature move? Aielyn 04:37, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

The reason I used "delayed release" over "event" is because event specifically refers to things only available via event distributions, which is not true of things like Kinesis and Volt Tackle. It is unreasonable to assume a move is an event move if it has not been released yet—those are "unreleased moves" (Sacred Sword and Relic Song of course are exceptions due to being triggered by events, and Snarl was as well before it was available due to the event TM). However, I'm not really sure how this "event move" argument is relevant here anyway. And Mew in Emerald is still event-exclusive. However, I agree with you that it is not currently a signature move, and that it may become one again in the next game. Also, I highly doubt Rayquaza will learn it outside of events if Victini doesn't—however, it is possible that if there is a move tutor, they would both be able to learn it. --SnorlaxMonster 10:03, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

The relevance is that it gives an argument towards not including V-Create on this page. Indeed, I'd argue that, even prior to the event Rayquaza, it was not a Signature Move, because the move was only available through an event, and thus couldn't be reliably associated with Victini, even if Victini was the only one that had gotten it. Let me give you a hypothetical analogy. Suppose that, during Gen III, an event occurred for FRLG, where you got a Voltorb that knows Volt Tackle. Would that make Volt Tackle a Voltorb signature move? I mean, it has "Volt" in it, and only Voltorb would have it. I'd argue that, until the move is part of a pokemon's available moveset without an event, it cannot be a signature move. Aielyn 11:09, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

In your hypothetical situation, I would argue that Volt Tackle would be Voltorb's signature move until another Pokémon could learn the move, with events always being ignored if there is another way for a Pokémon to learn it. However, since we agree about the way the page should be now and are merely debating hypotheticals, I don't think we need to continue this discussion unless someone argues for the inclusion of V-create. --SnorlaxMonster 11:21, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry fellas but V-create actually is Victini's signature move!! Just not in Japan, because in that country Rayquaza can learn it. But this still means its Victini's signature move in the rest of the whole world!!! Just add V-create with a little star explaining its not a signature move anymore in Japan and we're done. Nickvang (talk) 14:28, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry...

...but your definition of "signature move" is seriously flawed. Any definition of the term that doesn't allow Transform and Moonlight to be categorized as Ditto and Umbreon's respective signature moves is just wrong. So what if there were few other Pokémon who learned it in the generation it was introduced on? We're too worried about following rules and guidelines to the point that we're sacrificing common sense. Everyone considers Transform to Ditto's signature move despite Mew (who is only a event Pokémon and thus didn't even exist for the average player back in the Gen I days) learning it, too. And considering that Espeon's signature move is Morning Sun, it's obvious that the developers intended Moonlight to be considered the signature move of his counterpart, Umbreon. - Ericss 17:53, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

I can see Ditto being an exception. But Umbereon and Moonlight? I never once thought of it being a signature move for Umbreon. And they only reason we consider it a signature for Espeon in Gen II is because it was the only Pokémon that could learn it.

Anyway, please look a few sections up to see the definition of "signature". It means distinctive. It's not distinctive when other Pokémon can learn it too. --ケンジの ガール 05:44, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Wouldn't that make Ditto a Signature Pokemon for Transform? Aielyn 09:25, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

If another Pokémon can learn a move via level, TM or breeding it is not considered a signature move. A signature move must be a move only usable by one Pokémon (Mew can learn Transform and Clefairy, Oddish, Cresselia etc. can learn Moonlight).--Force Fire 10:08, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Oshawott and evolutions

Shouldn't Razor Shell be Oshawott/Dewott/Samurott's signature moves? JacobTheDoduo 19:36, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Shellder also learns it by level. So no. Werdnae (talk) 20:55, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Signature Move recovery

Ok, "Also, some of these moves can be passed down via breeding to other Pokémon or are known by certain event Pokémon." Well how about Signature Move recovery? Sometimes there's only one Pokémon able to learn a move in that generation: Skarmory and Steel Wing for exemple, but because many Pokémon can learn it in a previous generation it isn't a Signature Move. This means that if TM 47 hadn't existed in gen 3 and 4 but in gen 5, Steel Wing would've been Skarmory's Signature Move for two generations and it would've lost this status in gen 5. But now its reversed and so it means Steel Wing isn't Skarmory's Signature Move in any generation!? I personally don't think so. And by the way Mega Kick is Hitmonlee's Signature Move, but there many Pokémon able to learn it in Firered and Leafgreen. So that's why Steel Wing (still for exemple) has to be Skarmory Signature Move. Nickvang (talk) 14:40, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree. They have been added. --SnorlaxMonster 11:22, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

One table more.

In 'Other signature move examples' are many exemples of moves which only one evolutionary line can learn by leveling up, but can be learned by other Pokémon too via TM. Could we give those exemples their own table? Just like the one for the real signature moves. This would make the page a little more clear. Nickvang (talk) 19:42, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Squirtle's evolutionary family and Sharpedo are the only Pokémon to learn Skull Bash by leveling up, but other Pokémon could learn it through TM40 in Generation I.

Sudowoodo is the only Pokémon to learn Mimic by leveling up in Generation II, but other Pokémon could learn it through TM31 in Generation I and Move Tutor in Generation III. In Generations II, IV and V and Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire, Hitmonlee is the only Pokémon who can learn Mega Kick. However, in Generation I and Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen, others could learn it through TM and Move Tutor respectively. Unown can learn only Hidden Power; however, almost every other Pokémon can learn it via TM10 in Generation II and beyond. Although several Pokémon can learn it by TM, until Generation III only Diglett and Dugtrio could learn Dig by level up. Prior to Generation V, Vigoroth is the only Pokémon to learn Focus Punch by leveling up, although many other Pokémon can learn it via TM01. Porygon-Z is the only Pokémon to learn Trick Room by leveling up, although that move can be learned via TM92. Almost every Pokémon is able to learn Facade via TM42. However, Chimchar is the only one to learn it by leveling up prior to Generation V. Although only Panpour and its evolution are the only Pokémon to learn Scald by leveling up, other Pokémon can learn it via TM55. Also, Pansage is currently the only Pokémon to learn Grass Knot by leveling up, yet other Pokémon can learn it via TM86. Kadabra and Alakazam are the only Pokémon to learn Ally Switch by leveling up, but other Pokémon can learn it through TM51 in Generation V. Sawk is the only Pokémon to learn Rock Smash by leveling up, but other Pokémon can learn it through TM94 in Generation V. Emolga is the only Pokémon to learn Volt Switch by leveling up, but other Pokémon can learn it through TM72 in Generation V. Nickvang (talk) 19:47, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Do skill swap and steel wing really count as signature moves?

I think something should only be considered a signature more IF only one Pokémon or only the Pokémon from one evolutionary line can learn it since the beginning. But I wouldn't say that steel wing is really Skarmory's signature move since it was a TM earlier on. Yeah, it's no longer a TM, but that doesn't make it Skarmory's signature move all of a sudden.

Also regarding skill swap, that's also a move that used to be a TM, so I wouldn't say it's a signature move either. What do you guys think? TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 15:18, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Steel Wing is definitely a signature move, because even though it was a TM for several generations, Skarmory learned it by level up in all those generations as well, and was the only Pokemon to learn it by level up. If anything, I think it should be listed as Skarmory's signature move in Gen 2-5 instead of just 5. Skill Swap is a slightly trickier matter that will probably require a more refined definition of "signature move" to resolve satisfactorily one way or the other.

Personally, I think we should refine the definition so that it doesn't matter if a plethora of Pokemon can learn a move by a "lower"/"less common" method (i.e. TMs, Move Tutors, events); as long as only one family can learn it by level up, that is its signature move. (And if nothing learns it by level up and only one thing learns it by another method, that's also a signature move, of course.) But that's just my opinion. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 16:01, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

In that case would you say that return is Lopunny's signature move? Sure, that move was introduced long before Loponny was but Lopunny is the only Pokémon that learns it by level up. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 16:12, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

That's why I said Skill Swap (which is in the same boat) is a tricky matter. There should probably be a provision where widely/universally-available TMs like Return aren't signature moves unless the one Pokémon that learns it by level up has been able to learn it at least as long as the move has been a TM. On the other hand, something like Softboiled was obviously Chansey's signature move even in Gen 1, in which nothing learned it by level up and the TM was only learnable by Chansey and Mew (which, of course, can learn anything). Of course, those are both extremes on opposite sides of the spectrum, and examples that are somewhere in the middle (like Skill Swap) are more difficult to figure. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 17:24, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

A few things...

First... Why don't egg moves disqualify a signature move? Due to them, moves like Present and Beat Up are VERY widespread, compared to moves like Softboiled and Needle Arm that get disqualified for very small numbers of other Pokemon. Second... Why does Volt Tackle count as a Pikachu signature when it can't learn it by any means itself? (It can only get it by evolving a Pichu that knows it <which should also qualify Raichu and a bunch of other families' Pokemon if this counts> or by events <which have been noted to generally not count>.) Third... Why does Sacred Sword (and relatedly, Fusion Flare/Bolt) count as a signature move for the Swords of Justice (who aren't technically related by family) when Rolling Kick (which only Hitmonlee and Hitmontop, who are related, can learn, excluding egg moves) doesn't from Generation 2 onwards? Fourth... Needle Arm isn't learned by anything other than Cacnea/Cacturne in Generation 4, either. (It's only marked as being signature in Generation 3.) Fifth... Only the Whismur line learned Sleep Talk, except by breeding, in Ruby and Sapphire. RiverShock (talk) 16:00, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Misplacing

Is there a reason why Jynx (#124) is placed after Magikarp (#129)? I searched the rest of the list and didn't see this error again. PokefanR (talk) 23:10, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

outrage and dragonite

outrage was the dratini's family signature move in gen 2 and that isn't on the list 0danmaster0 (talk) 15:53, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

By level-up, yes. Charmander and Larvitar can learn it by breeding, so I'm not sure how to categorize this. Bwburke94 (talk) 07:46, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Breeding is ignored for signature moves. Because by that logic, eg. Pay Day would be signature only in G3-G4 (G1 has TM, G2 has breed from TM and G5 has breed), when it's signature since G2. Marked +-+-+ (talk) 09:04, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

actually I just didn't see it it the list lol 0danmaster0 (talk) 12:28, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Nuzzle

Would Nuzzle count as a pseudo signature as it can only be learned by Pikachu and it's imitators? Guybrush20X6 (talk) 09:41, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

That seems notable, I guess, but I'm going to say no. It's like how Glare is only learnable by snake-based Pokémon (excluding breeding). Since all those rodents are unrelated by evolution, it just comes down to specifics on how the move is actually used (description involves "electrified cheeks"). --KiANGLO ^(TALK) 15:22, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Definition

This article doesn't give a clear definition of what conditions we consider a move to be a signature move and what conditions we don't. All it says is that Most are learned by leveling up but some can be learned through other means when no Pokémon can learn the move by leveling up. There's no addressing what disqualifies a signature move: do TMs? do Egg moves? do event moves? do all of these disqualify in all cases, or are there special circumstances? There's been a lot of disagreement on this talk page about what constitutes a signature move, so we need to actually state our definition in the article so it's clear to readers. I would do so myself, but I don't know what that definition is to me because our criteria make no sense to me. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 19:38, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Solosis line and Skill Swap?

Does Skill Swap really count as being a signature move for the Solosis line? Sure, they were the first ones to be able to learn it by level up, but many others could learn it through other means. Heck, the move itself appeared two generations before the Pokémon did. If no one has any objections, I think it should be removed. --River Aura 00:16, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, it definitely doesn't fit since it can be taught by Move Tutor in the same Generation it's listed as being a signature move in. Glik (talk) 00:31, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Event moves...

Should Hold Back and Happy Hour really be considered signature moves? They're not naturally known by any Pokemon, and several moves that otherwise qualify as Signature moves on this list, such as Shift Gear, Spacial Rend and Fusion Bolt have been given to event Pokemon. The fact they're only known by 1 Pokemon seems meaningless since any Pokemon could (and in all probability, will) be given them. (And again, no Pokemon actually learns them naturally.)

Incidentally, the list of "One-off signature moves" is rather incomplete. (Being both outdated, and lacking some earlier ones like XD's Frenzy Plant/Blast Burn/Hydro Cannon Gen 2 starters.)

Given Egg Moves seem to be ignored, Whismur/Loudred/Exploud should have Sleep Talk as a signature move in Ruby/Sapphire and Spoink/Grumpig should have Magic Coat as a signature move in the entirety of Gen 3. If Hold Back and Happy Hour are deemed to be valid signature moves, then Snarl should be a signature move of Zoroark in Black/White since TM95 wasn't legitimately obtainable, and thus event Zoroark (or a trade back from BW2, which also shouldn't count, since otherwise it would disqualify things like Meowth's Gen 2 Pay Day) is the only Pokemon that can know it outside breeding in those games. RiverShock (talk) 23:54, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

In order for a Pokémon to qualify as having a signature move, it must meet one of the following conditions: (1) It must be the only Pokémon (or Pokémon family) to learn the move (excluding Smeargle using Sketch), or (2) It must be the only Pokémon (or Pokémon family) to learn the move by Level Up. At the time of this writing, Celebi's Hold Back and Inkay's Happy Hour qualify them for condition #1. If a later event is released giving the move to a different Pokémon, then they will cease being signature moves, and they will be removed. If a later game is released where the moves are available to more Pokémon, the same will occur. Celebrate and V-Create are good examples of this. They are event-exclusive moves, but they are available to multiple evolution lines, with Celebrate being found on both Pikachu and Eevee (plus evolutions), and V-Create being available to both Victini and Rayquaza. Shift Gear, Spacial Rend, Fusion Bolt, etc. are considered signature moves because their users qualify for condition #2, they are the only Pokémon capable of learning the move through Level Up. Snarl on Zoroark was a signature move of Zoroark in Black/White, however, it isn't listed because we don't list things by games, we list them by generation, and the move is not exclusive to Zoroark when you look at Generation V as a whole - which would include Black 2/White 2. Meowth's Gen 2 Pay Day is a signature move because it qualifies for both conditions in Gen 2. --GoldenSandslash15 (talk) 04:14, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Actually, GoldenSandslash, we do frequently list things by game instead of generation. See, for example, the Alakazam line's Kinesis in Yellow or Hitmonchan's Vacuum Wave in Diamond/Pearl. Also, your condition #2 is wrong; a TM is also enough to disqualify it, even if only one family can learn it by level up. (I strongly disagree with this criterion, but for some reason it exists.) In any case, I agree that TM95 being unobtainable in BW shouldn't make Snarl Zoroark's signature move, because if you do get a TM95 in BW somehow (tradeback or cheating), it is programmed to be compatible with tons of Pokemon, so it's technically in their movesets, and it's not programmed to be in Zoroark's level up moveset at all. Pumpkinking0192 (talk)

TMs aren't tradeable in Gen 5, so there has never been (and never will be) a way to teach a Pokemon a move via TM95 in Black/White without cheating. The only way TM95's compatibility is referred to at all in Black/White is by breeding a tradeback or this Zoroark. (Or a Smeargle that Sketched from this Zoroark or a tradeback, I guess.) And breeding doesn't disqualify a signature move. Why should unobtainable moves in a Pokemon's potential learnset count towards disqualifying a signature move? RiverShock (talk) 17:39, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Bone/Rolling Kick thing

The removed fact was:

* Bone Club and Bonemerang are the only STAB signature moves throughout all 6 generations.

I don't think Rolling Kick counts because Machop, Hitmontop, and Elekid can learn it. Thus the Bone attacks are the only true signature moves. (IMO, the only signature egg move is Volt Tackle)

And in case someone says Kinesis, it does no damage, thus doesn't qualify for STAB. Unowninator (talk) 22:43, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Regardless, Rolling Kick is still a signature move, "true" signature move or not. Once you try to add too many conditions to make a factoid seem unique, it just becomes not notable enough to add. --Carmen★ (Talk | contribs) 22:56, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Discuss please: Move Tutor vs. level-up

It has come to my attention on the Electroweb page that, for some reason, we consider it Joltik/Galvantula's signature move in BW, not in B2W2, again in XY, and then not in ORAS, simply because of the B2W2 and ORAS move tutors. This is frankly ridiculous and makes no sense whatsoever. It was also pointed out that Hitmonlee's Mega Kick is also subject to this problem in Gen III.

The fact is that, in a post-Gen III world in which Pokémon can be and regularly are transferred forward and in which Move Tutor availability is extremely broad in some games and extremely narrow in others, the current criteria for signature moves are obscure, difficult to divine, and needlessly convoluted. The simple fact should be that if a Pokémon or evolutionary line is the only one who can learn a move (barring events), that should be its signature move, and if any other Pokémon can have legal access to it by any means (including intergenerational transfer), it should not be considered a signature move. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 19:32, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

I've actually agreed with that for a while; the only reason I undid your edit was because those were the rules lol. Can we please change this? Unowninator (talk) 20:12, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

I think it's pretty possible to complain both ways.

We already exclude events or other special circumstances (or Pay Day wouldn't be Meowth's signature move in Gen II/III), and you can kind of view transferred Pokemon like events, if nothing else in the game lets you pass down the move or anything. (...It looks like Hoppip can learn Pay Day by breeding in Gen II, though; by that, I don't support calling it Meowth's signature move for Gen II, actually.)

I pretty much think a move should be a signature move in Generation [X] if no one can learn it newly outside of one family. Our intro is plenty ambiguous, though. If we could settle on one definition, I'd certainly love to make it much clearer. Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:03, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

I think I both agree and disagree. I understand how it seems odd for Electroweb's status as a signature move to bounce back and forth, however that's not a particularly common occurrence, and I think it still fits in with the spirit of a signature move. After all, Audino had Secret Power as a signature move in Gen V, even though nearly any Pokémon could exist on those cartridges knowing that move through transfers. I disagree, then, that transfer availability disqualifies a move from being a "signature" move. I also think that the criteria for signature moves are in no way obscure or "difficult to divine", regardless of whether or not I agree with them. A move is a signature move 'in a particular game' if only one family of Pokémon—either evolutionary line or related Legendaries—can learn it without breeding. Transfers and events can be considered reasonable exceptions as they both require interaction outside the game itself (connection to another game or download server—conditions not pre-loaded onto the cartridge). Pretty clear-cut in my opinion. — KiANGLO ^TALK 04:19, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Why, then, do TMs and Tutors disqualify a signature move, but breeding does not? I have never seen a satisfactory answer for this, nor can I imagine that one exists. It's utterly arbitrary and senseless. It'd be better to have it all-or-nothing. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 04:29, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

If a move exists as a TM or Tutor move, the game is telling you that there are many Pokémon that can learn it. Like, the move is being advertised to you as something that can be "taught". It's nearly impossible to explain; you either see it or you don't. All I can say is that it would make absolutely no sense for a TM/Tutor move to be learnable by one Pokémon (barring "special" tutor moves like Dragon Ascent; which are specifically mentioned to be FOR a specific Pokémon). Yes that happened in Gen I but we are far past that now. Breeding doesn't really carry that same weight, because when a move is gained by breeding, it is "passed down" by the parent who knows the move, rather than "taught" to the Pokémon from an outside force. That's really the best way I can explain it. It makes perfect sense to me. — KiANGLO ^TALK 04:42, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Pretty much. TM and Tutor moves are taught to the Pokémon and thus aren't natural. Breeding is natural as the move is passed down. As for Electroweb, that shouldn't count as it's only for a specific generation that it would count as a signature move, at least, in my opinion. Transfers are automatically excluded because the Pokemon that are transferred aren't from that generation--Force Fire 05:36, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

I'm confused by what you mean by that. Why shouldn't Electroweb count? Many other Pokémon have a signature move in a specific generation. Then again, I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make, or even what you're saying about Electroweb's inclusion on this list. — KiANGLO ^TALK 05:47, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

I'm saying that a signature move should only count for the generation, not the game, i.e, it shouldn't matter if it is Joltik/Galvantula's signature move in BW/XY, if it wasn't their signature move for the whole generation, it doesn't count.--Force Fire 05:52, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

So, if that's part of the definition we're going with, how should it be applied to various pages? It looks like after this decision was made, mentions of it being the Joltik family's signature move were removed from the Electroweb page, but not from this one. Is this an accidental inconsistency or is it not? Since this is the main page for signature moves, I suppose I could see it having a slightly less strict definition and have the main table use a game-by-game basis rather than a by generation one, while having it removed from move pages if it fails to meet that requirement. Since this is such an arbitrary, unofficial thing, having it take up space on the header of a move page if there are a bunch of disclaimers is probably undesirable. Still, there are plenty of other moves aside from Electroweb scattered across all generations that don't fit the 'whole generation' criterion. Once the stance on this page vs. move pages is resolved, they could easily be sorted out.

As for the other parts of the definition, I don't find that explanation for why egg moves don't disqualify a move from being signature to be even remotely convincing. Egg moves, TMs/HMs, and Move Tutors are all in the same boat for me — they are additional moves that can always be taught to a given species under the right conditions (right moves on parents, having the TM, having the payment/happiness criteria for tutors, etc.) in a specific game/generation. If we take signature move to mean a move exclusive to a given species/family in a specific generation with minimal influence from events and previous generations (this is what it seems to be right now), it makes no sense to exclude egg moves. For example, if someone had looked at this page and its definition, then started playing ORAS and found a bunch of Pokemon through the DexNav that knew Present despite it supposedly being exclusive to Delibird, I would not be surprised if they became confused. Maybe not the best example, but my point is, either all three of these 'additional move' categories should be included for signature move disqualification or all three should be excluded (and I much prefer the former).

The other two categories, past-gen moves and events, are more of a gray area to me, but since (aside from Gen I/II) it isn't possible to send a later-gen Pokemon back to learn the moves in question and 'born in current generation' is officially recognized by the pentagon in Gen VI , it feels like enough of a difference to me. Excluding event moves also makes some sense to me, since they're exclusive to certain special Pokemon and not any Pokemon of that species. I'm not so sure about in-game "event" Pokemon that don't hinge on real-world things though, like the gen 2 Extreme Speed Dratini, but that has the potential to make it more confusing. Unlike the things in the first two paragraphs, I don't feel too strongly about either of these. VioletPumpkin (talk) 14:48, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

If we counted egg moves, we would lose a LOT of signature moves here. I think the implication of egg moves versus other moves is a good enough reason, as a move only obtainable by breeding isn't something that a particular Pokémon naturally has the ability to use (i.e. if you just go out and catch one, it will never learn that move, no matter what you try), and therefore it must be specifically passed down to an offspring by the only Pokémon that can naturally learn it. For example, Octazooka has been consistently regarded as Octillery's signature move; Horsea can learn it, but only through direct involvement with an Octillery. It will never learn Octazooka unless there is an Octillery involved somewhere in its lineage. A Pichu will never learn Present unless it has a Delibird somewhere in its "family tree".

DexNav seems to throw a bit of a wrench into the "natural" idea with the wild egg moves thing, but that seems to just be more of a user-friendly feature so that players have a chance to gain access to egg moves that they might not be able to get otherwise, and also so players have the ability to take advantage of egg moves during story mode (since I imagine very few people take the time to chain-breed then), and perhaps even to introduce the concept to breeding novices, who might not have been dedicated enough fans/players to even know that it existed. — KiANGLO ^TALK 05:11, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

I think I understand where you're coming from now, and the issue seems to be one of opposing perspectives about what this whole vague term means. The people wanting to exclude egg moves seem to be coming from a sort of 'biological' position, where the point about the move 'originating' on a certain Pokemon would make perfect sense. Others, like me, view it with a position based on 'exclusivity', where the question of where it came from doesn't necessarily matter so much, so long as it's obtainable through intended game mechanics. And more still will have variations on these positions, or completely different ones, since it's not an official term (like the people arguing that it should be the 'most-famous moves of a Pokemon' years ago on this talk page). For example, I've never considered Present or Octazooka or Electroweb or any similar move to be signature because they've never been exclusive through intended (non-Sketch) mechanics, even in their introductory generations/games. Since the current staff seem to agree with the 'biological' interpretation, and there's probably not much I can do to convince them otherwise despite the contradictions that annoy me in the current definition (which I admit is ironic because every definition of this is arbitrary to some extent), I'll just say that we'll have to agree to disagree and move on. VioletPumpkin (talk) 15:59, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Payday and Softboiled are omitted from Gen 1?

I don't really know how to do anything on this site-- I just made an account because I noticed this page does not list either "Payday" for Meowth in Gen 1, OR "Softboiled" for Chansey, when both of those moves were in the game. In fact, other than battling the Elite 4 over and over, Payday was one of the few ways to keep your ever-slimming wallet from drying up in Red and Blue, and it was this for this reason that I was rather disappointed by the lack of wild Meowth in Yellow version (however, Jesse/James' Meowth DO use Payday against you throughout the game.) As for Softboiled, you receive it via TM from a man in... I want to say Saffron City(?)... after you learn Surf and use it to get to his house in Yellow. Yes, it's a TM, but in Gen 1, Chansey was the ONLY pokemon who was actually able to learn the move from the TM. When you get it, the man even says to you "there's only one pokemon who can learn this technique!" (aside from Mew, obviously, but I assume Mew is a general exception in this thread...)

GenericCola (talk) 05:44, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

No, actually, Mew isn't considered an exception. Mew learning Softboiled disqualifies it as Chansey's signature move. And Pay Day could be learned by nearly 20 Pokemon by TM, not just Meowth. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 05:49, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

official name

maybe the official name of signatures moves is "Unique Move"? --Valepert (talk) 17:46, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Clanging scales

Why isn't it listed here as kommo-o's signature movies. It says its it's signature move on the bulbpedia page for Clanging scales but not on this page. It even says on the website that "Clanging Scales is a move that only Kommo-o can learn. It scrapes the scales covering its body against one another, attacking with a great clamor. After using this move, Kommo-o’s Defense is lowered." The fact that only kommo-o can learn it means its a signature move Storm1051787 (talk) 20:25, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Nature's Madness (Tapu)

The page for Nature's Madness notes that the move is the signature move of the guardian deities. Even though the Tapu's are not related by evolutionary line (that we know of), shouldn't this move allowed as the Tapu's are clearly related in a different sense? Kungfuyu (talk) 20:42, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

If Sacred Sword counted for the Swords of Justice in Gen V, I see no reason why Nature's Madness and Guardian of Alola shouldn't count for the tapu. I added them to the page. -- Umbee (talk) 22:33, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Looks like Sacred Sword and Fusion Flare/Bolt are mentioned especially in the section "Moves commonly associated with certain Pokémon". Nature's Madness and Guardian of Alola would qualify for another bullet point. But maybe this is a good opportunity to redefine what 'Signature Move' means so that it's not just for evolutionary lines but include established Pokemon groups like the guardian deities Kungfuyu (talk) 00:21, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Feather dance and Gust

According to this article, the aforementioned moves were pidgey/pidgetto/Pidgeot signature moves in generations 1 and 3 respectivly. However, according to the articles, butterfree learns gust in pokemon yellow and farfeched can learn featherdance in gen 3 by breeding. RubyLeafGreenCrystal (talk) 22:46, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

For Gust, hover over the * tooltip. You'll see it clearly says "Prior to Pokémon Yellow." As for Feather Dance, the first paragraph of the article clearly states that availability via breeding or events doesn't count against signature status. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 00:19, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Water Shuriken

Obviously Water Shuriken was originally Greninja's signature move until ORAS where Accelgor also learned it. However is it worth adding it to the "often associated with" section, with how often Greninja uses the move? Not only was it a previous signature, Ash-Greninja's Battle Bond ability powers the move up and changes the amount of times it hits. Ash-Greinja has a larger one on it's back, both forms often used it in the anime, and Greninja's Pokedex entries describe the move as well. TrainerSplash (talk) 15:47, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Frustration, return, steel wing, flash, avalanche

Is there a reason they aren't listed in the "exclusive by level up" section when only one evolution family learned them by level up at some point? sumwun (talk) 22:46, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

I need some help please

I tried to edit the page to make it say that Throat Chop was Incineroar's signature move until USUM, but the edit affected Darkest Lariat instead. Can somebody please help? Crummymummy (talk) 17:01, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

I went ahead and switched the order of the two moves so that Throat Chop is in the slot that gets the asterisked note. I'm not sure if it's possible to do it otherwise, so that the asterisk would be on the second move slot. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 22:24, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Prismatic Laser

Can someone add Prismatic Laser for Dusk Mane/Dawn Wings Necrozma? It can be learned by both forms and Photon Geyser, its other signature move, is included with them. I just don't know how to do it. Thanks The IceCream (talk) 09:31, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Got it. Lanthanum (talk) 10:07, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Why is Pay Day not considered "signature" for Persian?

Pay Day is learned by Meowth, which evolves into Persian. This same logic is used for Pikachu and Raichu with Volt Tackle, so I don't understand why it doesn't apply to Persian too. I understand that since Gen 4 Persian doesn't itself learn Pay Day, but Pikachu and Raichu don't by themselves learn Volt Tackle either.

The same question could be asked about:

Shellder/Cloyster and Clamp (Gen 2), Icicle Spear (Gens 3-4)

Staryu/Starmie and Camouflage (Gen 3)

Magikarp/Gyarados and Splash (Gen 1)

Porygon/Porygon2 and Sharpen (Gen 2)

Misdreavus/Mismagius and Pain Split (Gen 4)

Nuzleaf/Shiftry and Extrasensory (Gen 3)

Slakoth/Vigoroth and Slack Off (Gen 3)

Skitty/Delcatty and Assist (Gen 3)

Along with others I've probably missed.

Can someone please fill me in on the logic here? If the answer is "because they can't learn it themselves," then Pikachu and Raichu should have Volt Tackle removed, along with more than a few other Pokémon. Mjswdr (talk) 23:27, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

The thing is though, Volt Tackle in itself is a specifically unique move in that it is a move only taught via breeding. As opposed to all the ones you listed where they are level up moves specifically learned by that Pokemon, breeding moves are learned by Pokemon families as opposed to their individual evolutions. --Spriteit (talk) 00:06, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Template Change

This table doesn't show every Signature of parter Eevee.--Rocket Grunt (Report To Me) 14:35, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Table problems

I tried to add the Generation VIII signature moves, but when I opened the preview, the eighth column was still blank. There might be something wrong with the table code, but I can't find anything. --Kahran042 (talk) 18:32, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

I've edited Template:SignatureMove as needed, please try again now. Nescientist (talk) 19:02, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

It worked! Thanks! --Kahran042 (talk) 19:39, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Should we add Bolt Beak & Fishious Rend too?

I mean, Zekrom & Kyurem both have Fusion Bolt in the list, and these moves are exclusive to the very similar fossil Pokémon. Should we add Bolt Beak & Fishious Rend? ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 22:54, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Still waiting for a response. Not sure what to do... ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 23:34, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Dexit

Since this seems to be going on in multiple pages, I'll leave this here: I do not agree with some moves (such as Night Daze and Parabolic Charge) now being considered signature moves just because most of the Pokémon that learned them are now zapped. I mean, that would be like saying that the Deino and Litwick lines have unique type combinations in Gen VIII. I guess it's mainly a thing of there not being satisfactory evidence that the other Pokémon now can't learn the moves, making the "only one Pokémon or evolutionary line" seem sketchy. Mr. Daikon (talk) 19:14, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

You make a good point, but it should probably be at least be mentioned that they're the only ones who can use those in Sword and Shield. Maybe a separate table? --Kahran042 (talk) 10:25, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

Can TM moves be signature?

If only one pokemon learns a move through level up in a generation where that move is also a tm, is it still a sig move? Pallukun (talk) 11:15, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

No, that does not count. However, we do document those cases in the Similar examples section of the page. --SnorlaxMonster 12:42, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

One game signature

Why were some signatures deleted? I mean the ones that were intruduced at the beginning of the generation but lasted shoret than one?--Rocket Grunt (Report To Me) 15:36, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

I removed them because they weren't a signature move for a full generation. If you want to document "one-off"/"temporary" signature moves, then that can be placed elsewhere, but not in the main template.--Force Fire 11:49, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Since Pokemon's movesets are constantly changed within one generation, that means signatures are independent from them.--Rocket Grunt (Report To Me) 18:59, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Inconsistency between main section and teachable signatures

I've noticed that, for the purposes of the main section, signature moves that are only unique to a certain Pokemon for one game during a gen, are not counted. For example, Water Shuriken Greninja and the other Kalos starters, whose signature moves were distributed to other mons in ORAS. I understand that, although this may seem unintuitive in some ways, for now it seems like people want to keep it this way.

However, this rule does not seem to apply currently to the "teachable" section. For example, many Pokemon are listed from LGPE where those moves are only unique to them in the context of LGPE, but are otherwise learned by many other Pokemon in the other Gen 7 games. The exception to this would be the Meowth/Persian line, where Pay Day is still unique to them, but otherwise all of the rest are not "true" signatures under the criteria applied to the main section. There are also other examples from other gens, such as Quash Murkrow/Honchkrow in Gen 6, when it can be learned by Sableye in ORAS, Snarl Yveltal in the same gen, Double Team Scyther in Gen 1, etc.

I'm basically asking, should this be cleaned up so that it's consistent with the main section? It would also make the purpose of the specific gen flairs more clear, since it would almost always imply that the move is only teachable via tutor or TM in a specific game, instead of possibly implying that the move is only unique to the Pokemon in that game.

--Tangela13 (talk) 22:02, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Every move that was a signature for shorter period of time than whole generation was once deleted by ForceFire out of whim and he forbid to bring them back without any explenation or consistency with rest of the page and other pages that mention them being singature. I really would like us to have a well defined term of signature move.--Rocket Grunt (Report To Me) 10:13, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

I think I agree with ForceFire that only full generations should count, or at least not LGPE, since it's just a small subset of Pokémon, and to me, signature moves means more than just "was the only evolution line in <game> to know <move>" trivia. Maybe ForceFire wants to outline his reasoning further, but I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't forbid discussion about it.

Tangela, your idea makes sense to me. Nescientist (talk) 10:39, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

I moved the entire section to its appropriate section as per SnorlaxMonster's suggestion above. TM/HMs immediately do not make moves signature moves, since Pokémon outside of the Pokémon and/or its evolutionary line can learn the move. Which is the first rule of a signature move. A move that can only be learned by either one Pokémon or an entire evolutionary line. I get that the definition can be a bit confusing and difficult to follow when there's no hard written rule about it. But that generally covers the gist of it.

As for the consistency, every single section should follow the same rule. There should not be any exemptions. So anything that should not be there should be removed.--Force Fire 12:44, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Okay, I will remove the teachable signatures that can be learned naturally by other Pokemon in the same gen.

However ForceFire, I think that Rocket Grunt's complaint was regarding signature moves that have been removed because they are only unique to a mon for a specific game during the gen (like Water Shuriken Greninja for example), they were not complaining about the fact that TMs/tutors disqualify moves from being signature.

Also, about your definition of signature moves: "TM/HMs immediately do not make moves signature moves, since Pokémon outside of the Pokémon and/or its evolutionary line can learn the move." Would this not also disqualify moves that are learned as egg moves by other Pokemon? I understand egg moves have never been counted here, and it would maybe be a bit weird to say, for example, that Octazooka is not the signature move of Octillery because it can also be bred onto other mons. But currently there is no way to determine from this list whether a move is unique to a mon in the strictest sense, where it cannot be bred onto other mons, so it might be something to consider. --Tangela13 (talk) 18:59, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

mid-generation spreading

you should list pokemon that had signature moves until later games in the generation why don't you? Wild Starfish (talk) 18:30, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

There were such cases presented, but one admin deleted them. I personally don't know why moves have to last as a signature for a whole generation to be here. --Rocket Grunt (Report To Me) 18:50, 17 August 2020 (UTC)It feels like an artificial rule

Lugia has Psycho Boost as a "Signature Move"

It has been brought to my attention that Lugia is listed as having Psycho Boost as a signature move. What is the reasoning behind this? As far as I understand, Lugia cannot obtain Psycho Boost in gen VIII nor is Psycho Boost even usable. Was there any specific reasoning that this has happened? CoolMan6001 (talk) 04:16, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

XD ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 04:57, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

XD however, is not a gen VIII game, and shouldn't be counted as one in this list. CoolMan6001 (talk) 13:42, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

It's the same thing as Heart Swap: there's a way to bring the move in (though Magearna is more straight forward as it's a level-up move from recent games), but the move isn't usable so it's not counted at all. Eridanus (talk) 13:49, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

There are some other cases like this, such as Xurkitree and Tail Glow, and Ribombee and Powder. But yeah, I feel like for a move to be listed as a signature move, it has to be usable. --AmbientDinosaur (talk) 15:49, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Have we reached an agreement here that it is safe to remove Psycho Boost from the listing for Lugia yet? Or should we discuss this further? CoolMan6001 (talk) 03:52, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Well, Deoxys isn't in Sword & Shield, so I think it should stay. ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 05:28, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

This really goes into the debate of signature moves by technicality. In this *particular* instance Lugia cannot learn the move naturally by any means, let alone any event, and it can only be transferred from an old Lugia from generations past. Also, in this case I do not think it should be applied as a signature move because Psycho Boost is essentially soft-snapped: even though Lugia *could* have the move through transfer it cannot actually *use* the move. Since the move is rendered unusable in the game data as it stands, it should not be listed in my opinion since it is a "soft-deleted" move like Powder or Tail Glow in that the move itself cannot be used.ScraftyIsTheBest (talk) 06:51, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Defining "Signature Moves"

Yes, I have looked above and seen the different arguments for what constitutes as a signature move, but I'm not looking to change what it's defined as in this article. From what I've seen in the chart we currently have, a Pokemon's signature move is one that only it can learn through levelup in a particular generation or game. For example, look at Shellder's signature moves. In Generation I, both Shellder and Cloyster can learn Clamp by levelup, so it is listed as both of their signature moves. However in Generation II, Cloyster does not learn Clamp by levelup, and so it isn't listed there. Shellder still learns it by levelup, and therefore it is listed. Generation III, FRLG, Shellder is the only Pokemon to learn Icicle Spear by levelup, and so it is listed with a FRLG note next to it. HOWEVER, other Pokemon still learn Icicle Spear, but not by levelup. Generation IV, it is still listed as Shellder's signature move, as it is the only Pokemon to learn it by levelup still. Generation V, the Vanillite line learns Icicle Spear at level 1, so it is no longer listed as Shellder's signature move.

Looking closer to the top of the chart, you van see Volt Tackle for the Pikachu family. No Pokemon learns Volt Tackle by levelup, and only Pichu by Light Ball and Pikachu by events get it, but it is counted as that evolution line's signature move. This makes sense, only this family can have this move, outside of Smeargle with Sketch. But since it isn't learned by levelup, does it make sense to have it?

Herein lies the problem with the article; There is more than one idea for what makes a move signature. Is it a move that only one Pokemon or family learns by leveling up, like Shellder and Icicle Spear? Is it a move that only one family can have outside of Smeargle, like the Pikachu family and Volt Tackle? Or is it a move that most people know a Pokemon for, such as Magikarp and Splash?

Personally, I believe a signature move is one that only one Pokemon or family can have. Moves like Confide don't make sense to me as signature moves, since more than one Pokemon family have it, even though only the Impidimp family learns it by levelup (or even by any means) in Generation VIII, as Pokemon can be transferred in that know the move Confide; as such it isn't signature. While this would cut down on a significant amount of Pokemon having signature moves, it feels like the cleanest and easiest to explain, at least to me.

Maybe as a separate list we could have moves that only a certain Pokemon can learn by levelup? Found then Lost (talk) 19:00, 2 January 2021 (UTC)Found then Lost

Honestly, I've been thinking the same. "Signature move" makes it sound like a move the Pokemon is often associated with. The page should be renamed to "exclusive move" which would better fit in line with what the page is describing, and that way stuff like Impidimp learning Confide can remain listed. There's much hoops to go into it, but usage of the words mean different things. Charizard is often associated with Flamethrower and is almost always seen being used on every Charizard, just like how Blastoise is with Hydro Pump and how Pikachu is with Thunderbolt. And with how quickly a move goes from exclusive in one game to the next (such Water Shuriken being exclusive in XY to available on other Pokemon in ORAS) the term "signature" doesn't make sense for this page. Its even more problematic for moves like Water Shuriken, where even after being given to Accelgor, in ORAS it is still commonly associated with Greninja the following game with not only Greninja's base form but with Ash-Greninja specifically. There is a section on the page that describes to associations, but its not a very well put together list. I'd suggest to rename this "Exclusive moves" and make a new list page with Pokemon being associated with certain moves that have explain each individual case such as "common occurrence and usage in the anime" TrainerSplash (talk) 05:07, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Blast Burn/Frenzy Plant/Hydro Cannon vs Psycho Boost

Isn't the criteria for gen 3 Elemental Hyper Beams and Psycho Boost a bit inconsistent? The elemental Hyper Beams are considered one-off signature moves for the Kanto starters due to the Johto starters also getting them via XD - however, Psycho Boost is listed as a normalm signature move for Deoxys on gen 3 despite Lugia getting it on the same game as the Johto started get those moves. Wouldn't it make more sense to either remove Psycho Boost from gen 3 or (the one I think makes more sense) add the 3 to the Kanto starters since, on mainline games, they are the only ones who could get it? Ropalme1914 (talk) 04:03, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

@@ Line 933: / Line 933: @@
 Honestly, I've been thinking the same. "Signature move" makes it sound like a move the Pokemon is often associated with. The page should be renamed to "exclusive move" which would better fit in line with what the page is describing, and that way stuff like Impidimp learning Confide can remain listed. There's much hoops to go into it, but usage of the words mean different things. Charizard is often associated with Flamethrower and is almost always seen being used on every Charizard, just like how Blastoise is with Hydro Pump and how Pikachu is with Thunderbolt. And with how quickly a move goes from exclusive in one game to the next (such Water Shuriken being exclusive in XY to available on other Pokemon in ORAS) the term "signature" doesn't make sense for this page. Its even more problematic for moves like Water Shuriken, where even after being given to Accelgor, in ORAS it is still commonly associated with Greninja the following game with not only Greninja's base form but with Ash-Greninja specifically. There is a section on the page that describes to associations, but its not a very well put together list. I'd suggest to rename this "Exclusive moves" and make a new list page with Pokemon being associated with certain moves that have explain each individual case such as "common occurrence and usage in the anime" [[User:TrainerSplash|TrainerSplash]] ([[User talk:TrainerSplash|talk]]) 05:07, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
+== Blast Burn/Frenzy Plant/Hydro Cannon vs Psycho Boost ==
+Isn't the criteria for gen 3 Elemental Hyper Beams and Psycho Boost a bit inconsistent? The elemental Hyper Beams are considered one-off signature moves for the Kanto starters due to the Johto starters also getting them via XD - however, Psycho Boost is listed as a normalm signature move for Deoxys on gen 3 despite Lugia getting it on the same game as the Johto started get those moves. Wouldn't it make more sense to either remove Psycho Boost from gen 3 or (the one I think makes more sense) add the 3 to the Kanto starters since, on mainline games, they are the only ones who could get it? [[User:Ropalme1914|Ropalme1914]] ([[User talk:Ropalme1914|talk]]) 04:03, 1 November 2021 (UTC)