Talk:List of unused Pokémon and character designs

Name

This page needs to be renamed, to something like "Unused Artwork" or "Unused Concept Art", due to the fact that somethings are not Pokémon. Also, am I the only one who sees a massive relation between Raichu and Honouguma, Cyndaquil? Nah it looks to me to be more of a possible Raichu evolution. - Ferret 19:32, 19 Jul 2005 (UTC)

> Why would Raichu evolve into a Pokemon without "chu" in it's name, who according to it's own name is a Fire-type? - unsigned comment from Zeta (talk • contribs)

They were trying something different maybe? It just seems to bear an amazing resemblance. - Ferret

Did you guys think it was a pre-version of Teddiursa, but maybe scrapped when it was too related to Raichu. It is a bear, and a bear pokemon was released in Johto. Firemaker

Article

So, Bulbapedia has an article about Unreleased Pokémon, huh? Now all we need is an article on Fake Pokémon. - Pokencyclopedia

Validity issues

I've always found those sketches rather dubious now that I think about it. Where did they originally come from? Is there any proof at all that they are original concept art? - Ferret 22:40, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Excellent question. However, I do know I remember seeing them way back then on PokéFor (note the fine print on the images) around the release of G/S. - 振霖_T 02:19, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

The ones that were obviously scanned look like Sugimori's style, especially the trainers. So, at the very least, "Unnamed Mammal" and "Unnamed Turtle" are real. One can even see the turtle with Tyranitar in the Male Trainer art. I don't know what those other rough sketches are, though. They aren't Sugimori. --Argy 05:04, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Commentary issues

Unnamed mammal

The Unnamed mammal has been said to resemble Hitmontop or Meowth

Really? I definately see some Wigglytuff in there! FabuVinny 17:20, 26 November 2005 (CST)

This is gonna sound weird, but something about the design reminds me of Snubbull. It's the blue collar on a pink creature thing, I think. --Pie ^~♪♫ 14:58, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Kurusu

This creature resembles a seal, but doesn't seem to have much relation to any Pokémon as of yet

File:Alpha kurusu.png

--FabuVinny 14:52, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Unnamed turtle

A turtle Pokémon that was never released. It's possible it was later heavily reworked into Torkoal.

Am I the only one who sees Swampert's head in there? --FabuVinny 14:52, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Pictures

What website are those pictures from?--Ambipom--

Other names and additional info

Back when Gold and Silver were about to come out, i remember there was an article in Gamepro magazine about the Japanese Gold and Silver that had a LOOONG list of beta Japanese names for the new pokemon, and the same article also had a few temporary English names. The ones I remember: Artibull instead of Smeargle and Xoqo instead of Xatu. Only problem is, that article is long gone. Can anyone help out? --Jurgen200--

Check out this list...

152 Chikorita Chicolita
153 Bayleef Beifiru
154 Meganium Meganiumi
155 Cyndaquil Hinoarashi
156 Quilava Magumarashi
157 Typhlosion Bakufun
158 Totodile Waninoko
159 Croconaw Arigeitsu
160 Feraligatr Odairu
161 Sentret Otachi
162 Furret Ootachi
163 Hoothoot Hoho
164 Noctowl Yorunozuku
165 Ledyba Rediba
166 Ledian Redeian
167 Spinarak Itomaru
168 Araidos Araidosu
169 Kurobat Kuroba
170 Chinchou Chonchi
171 Lanturn Rantan
172 Pichu Pichu
173 Cleffa Pi
174 Igglybuff Pupurin
175 Togepi Togepi
176 Togetic Togechikku
177 Natee Neitei
178 Natotem Neiteio
179 Mareep Meripu
180 Skiploom Mokoko
181 Centerity Denryu
182 Bellossom Kireihana
183 Marill Mariru
184 Azumarill Mariruri
185 Sudowoodo Usokki
186 Politoed Myorotono
187 Hoppip Hane
188 Flaffy Popo
189 Jumpluff Watakko
190 Aipom Eipamu
191 Sunkern Himanattsu
192 Sunflora Kimawari
193 Dunsparce Yanyanma
194 Ampharos Upa
195 Quagsire Nuoh
196 Espeon Efui
197 Umbreon Burakki
198 Murkrow Yamikarasu
199 Slowking Yadoking
200 Trillix Muuma
201 ????? Annon
202 Crashin Sonansu
203 Girafarig Kirinriki
204 Skarmory Kunugidama
205 Forretress Fuoretosu
206 Duglari Nokocchi
207 Gligar Guraiga
208 Steelix Haganeru
209 Snubbull Buru
210 Granbull Guranburu
211 Wobbuffet Harisen
212 Scizor Hassamu
213 Octorock Tsubotsubo
214 Heracross Herakuroso
215 Misdreavus Nyuura
216 Moonlite Himeguma
217 Soloar Ringuma
218 Slugma Magumaggu
219 Magcargo Magukarugo
220 Swinub Urimu
221 Sirnub Inomu
222 Corsola Sanigo
223 Remoraid Teppouo
224 Octillery Okutan
225 Delibird Deribado
226 Mantine Maintain
227 Wooper Eamudo
228 Houndour Derubiru
229 Houndoom Heruga
230 Kingdra Kingudora
231 Phanpy Gomazou
232 Donphan Donfuyan
233 Porygon 2 Porygon 2
234 Stantler Odoshishi
235 Artibull Doburu
236 Hitmontot Baruki
237 Hitmontop Kapoera
238 Smoochum Muchura
239 Elekid Erekid
240 Magby Bubii
241 Miltank Mirutanku
242 Blissey Hapinasu
243 Raikou Raikou
244 Entei Entei
245 Suicune Suikun
246 Larvitar Yogirasu
247 Pupitar Sanagirasu
248 Tyranitar Bangirasu
249 Lugia Lugia
250 Ho-Oh Houou
251 Selebi Serebeii

Source --Ambipom--

Seems as if some, like Flaaffy and Skiploom, are flipped. --T T Echidna 22:52, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Wow, I actually remember those lists from back when G/S wasn't out in English yet. Every site had their own list of names that were confirmed, then had potential names that had been registered as copyrights or whatever listed somewhere and had people try to figure out which name went to which Pokémon.

So, of course, the reason a few of them are mixed around is because the list was made when we could see what names had been registered (domain names of each Pokémon's name usually get registered by Nintendo ahead of time, or something like that); nobody knew what a Skiploom actually was, so Flaaffy ended up with the name Skiploom in most fans' lists (I guess nobody noticed the hop-skip-jump thing.)

There's even a few of the common misspellings of the Japanese names that showed up in a lot of magazines and stuff before G/S's English release. "Hane"/"Popo" instead of Hanekko/Popokko, for example. With those in the list, I'm actually surprised the list doesn't have "Yanyan" listed as Umbreon/Burakki's Japanese name--that was a disturbingly common slip-up that magazines used to make back then.

I do remember some of those names, but as far as I know "Natee" and "Natotem" never actually came from any sort of official source (either stated in Nintendo Power or registered online somewhere)--I actually remember talking about how "Xatu" and "Xoqo" (the guesses for Natu and Xatu's names at the time) were good names once, and someone randomly butted in and said that they should be named "something like Naytee or Natotem" instead. So yeah, those two are definitely fan-made names, probably made by people who wanted Cheesy Cram-Two-Words-Together Names and didn't like the much-more-interesting ones like Xatu. I also don't remember "Octorock" as a name for Tsubotsubo--and it's extremely unlikely that Nintendo was ever considering it, since it's already the name of a well-known Zelda monster. Zdododododo 07:42, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

The dodgy Maxpages fansites aside, here is what turned up from google searches of "Artibull" "Trillix" "Duglari" and "Xoqo":

http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/archive/index.php?t-19796.html [THIS GUY KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT] http://www.woodrecords.com/megahangout/Pokedex_4_Gold_and_Silver [early list, including the games they're found in] http://maxpages.com/pokemonil/Gold_and_Silver_English_Names http://maxpages.com/pokepapparazzi/Pokemon http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbcolor/file/198308/9132 [japanese walkthru with english names pasted in - confused names in the pokedex] http://theoparadise.tripod.com/oldnews.htm [scroll down for pokemon list] http://guidesarchive.ign.com/guides/11154/marowak.html ["guardia"] http://www.pokebeach.com/pokemon.shtml [has all the beta names for red blue pkmn] http://www.angelfire.com/md2/lugia149/list.html [all correct except for xoqo and torvado] http://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/azure/forum/tuff/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=001495 [forum chatter about name confusion] http://members.fortunecity.com/putobracker/90.html [artibull and hitmontot, however its foreign] http://maxpages.com/tecnospokemon/POKEMON_GOLD_AND_SILVER_ATTACK ["milk berry" is the beta "milk drink" attack btw] http://maxpages.com/tecnospokemon/NEW_GOLD_AND_SILVER_ATTACKS_2 http://pokemaniac2948.tripod.com/Attacks/ [funny guessed attack names - atom force and gang beating lol] http://members.tripod.com/alyshakitty/pokedex2.html http://members.tripod.com/alyshakitty/pokedex2p3.html http://members.tripod.com/alyshakitty/pokedex2p4.html http://members.tripod.com/alyshakitty/pokedex2p5.html All of the Kanto names mentioned on these and other websites are genuine beta names. The poster included with my first edition 2BA Master CD had about 15 out 150 pokemon with the bizarre beta names like "dragoon" and "Guardia". These names are on the Pokemon's individual pages but they should be collected together. Same with the gold and silver names, at least a paragraph explaining the confusion that occurred among the fans. Sorry if this entry is too long and rambly :) Jurgen200

I remember something like that in a magazine too, with beta images of the pokemon w/beta names. I lost it though. I think it was in Beckett. Firemaker

what are crashin, trillix and number 201?- unsigned comment from Nobody777 (talk • contribs)

Crashin (Sonansu) is Wobbuffet, Trillix (Muuma) is Misdreavus, and ????? (Annon) is Unown. (Yaminokame 13:41, 27 January 2010 (UTC))

Is honouguma somehow related to the Pikachu and Marill, much like the three birds?

File:Alpha honouguma.png
Am I the only one to see a connection here? - Yukushi wisdom 19:15, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... Yeah, I see one. TTE chidna 01:16, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah... SpecialK Leiks Lucario and The Celebi Glitch 14:45, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Unown

Those "unreleased" Unown don't have to be unreleased.

They don't count as Beta Pokémon because they were revealed after the release of Gold/Silver.
I doubt they were ever meant to exist in games. They might be just anime-made.
The pictures of Unowns seen in third movie are just pictures of several drawings of Unown. They may be a pure fiction. That's possible that these Unowns never existed, but someone drew them like that.

This page is about Pokémon which didn't make it to the final game. Those Unowns aren't one of them. They are anime-wank and no one says they were ever meant to exist. Those pictures in the movie were just DRAWINGS made by PEOPLE, not photos of real Unown. --Maxim 18:15, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Well the ! and ? Unown are proof that more Unown designs were being considered for the next games, so they should be addedVuvuzela2010 11:35, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

They are no such thing. There's no evidence that the ! and ? Unown were planned since Gold and Silver. We just know that they were added in FRLG. Besides, this topice is like two and a half years old. --Andy^P_K^M_N 11:39, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

well the film was released not long before Kecleon, Wailmer and Azurill were revealed, a year I think, and their designs were exactly the same as they look now, so they had possibly finalized a good number Ruby/Sapphire pokemon by then (I dont know when the pics of Treecko, Torchic and 'Latiken' were taken however, I am also unsure how long it takes them to make the films(they are usually crap so probably not long)), besides they could have just used pics of the 26 original unownsVuvuzela2010 21:13, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

"2v2" Template?

There's a template on the top of the page, and I don't know what it is supposed to be, could someone figure that out and fix it? Theininen 16:01, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

It's been taken care of. --ニョロトノ 666 16:06, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Theininen 16:29, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

octorok comment

kirby has an ally named "chuchu" thats also zeldaWhatswithalltheextraspace 23:37, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Zelda's Chuchus didn't show up until LONG after Kirby's Dreamland 3. Plus, they're both gooey blob monsters that can stick to things, so it could be that the Zelda one was actually named after the Kirby one (or both were named after some other non-videogame-related thing... Japanese game/anime/etc. characters tend to have names like that pretty often.)Zdododododo 19:39, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Page Title

The page title says unreleased Pokémon, yet there are designs of prototype player characters that definitely aren't Pokémon. I want to move the psge to something more appropriate, but what?--Kuki Talk 00:25, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Maybe something like Unreleased Concept Artwork would be more accurate? Although since some of these are from magazines, saying the artwork itself is unreleased wouldn't be true...so something like Beta Concept Artwork? Lucentas 00:40, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Sometimes it's better to keep it simple. This is one of those times. Glinn Mgraw 07:22, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Pikachu..

Does that really count? It's still Pikachu,it's just a little bigger(like a lot of the pre-anime designs,just look at the starters),and I'm pretty sure that came out after the games were released. Also,but offtopic,with Leaf..Should it be said she is Leaf? Lovely Rose 03:48, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Charizard..

Should we include the Charizard from the same art as the Pikachu? It has a larger jaw then a regular Charizard, and is larger. Lovely Rose 17:05, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Many Pokémon designs change over the years. It's a completely different matter. It's simply early art, not really an unreleased thing. --Maxim 14:49, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

unnamed turtle

In the male trainer section, the unnamed turtle is in the picture. Does this suggest that it is early art for Squirtle? Turt wig A (talk | contribs) 23:50, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Most likely not since in that same picture one can see Tyranitar and other beta-Pokemon most likely from Gen II. As ar as I know it's a cover of a magazine that was suppose to report about the next Generation of Pokemon (or at least about plans). Ariano 06:46, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

I have the magazine in question. Unfortunately, there is no information on Gold/Silver within. The only indication of them is the cover itself. Slowpokeisgod 00:18, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm... Most likely it's still not about Gen I Pokemon since it's from 1997... It could've been a "hint" of new games in development. Ariano 06:44, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Starters?

Could Kurusu and Honoguma have originally been intended to be the Water and Fire Starters to go with Happa? Taromon 14:29, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone remember this?

i just remember when I was a kid i had a magazine that showed all the then 100 new Pokémon. But they we're not in their Sugimori art. And I can't remember if they had their English names. If anyone remember, would it be useful?--Midnight Blue 05:08, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

if you can remember the name of the magazine and what issue and maybe post them on the talk page maybe they can be qualified as unreleased.--Nobody777 17:49, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Torchic and blaziken beta art

From did that art come from???--Nobody777 18:48, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

I've seen that in 151chan (posted by a very trustable person). It seems to be photographed from some gallery. --Maxim 18:51, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

are there anymore pictures we can post or at least a reference??--Nobody777 19:26, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Green? It's BLUE! and other conflicts involving the Character section

I was reading a scanlation of Pokémon Special when I saw one of the pics that's in this article in it!(It's the black-and-white pic of Red, Green, and Blue with thier fully-evolved starters.) I was immediatly reminded of the article and went to it, sure that the page said that the pic was beta art.

And I was wrong, but I saw something else!

The page said that the girl in the aforementioned pic was Green.

Either Green had a gender change or the article's wrong!

Here's who's who- with the boys equated with their Anime counterparts-

Red-"Ash"

Green-"Gary"

Blue-the girl

The article needs fixing, but since this also goes into parts I don't know about- I'm still reading Red-Green-Blue- I can't fully proofread it.

Also, I think the book under the color pic showing Red, Green, and Blue with thier unevolved starters is Pokemon Special- at least a copy of it. ThePoketrix 22:24, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

The rival's name is Blue. He's known as Blue when he's an NPC in GSC and HGSS as a Gym Leader. However, he is known as Green in Japanese. As such, the girl's name would be Green, or Blue in Japanese, as was done in the manga. ~ sol ar is 22:30, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Some fans have a tendency to mix Japanese names with English (especially in the case of Blue/Green). But they're not right. Trust official sources, not scanslations made by fans. --Maxim 07:33, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Who is that?

Who is supposed to be riding the Latias/Blaziken Pokemon in the artwork? Flyingtypefan 23:30, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Some unused trainer obviously. Maybe they should have their own entry?--Pokélova! 04:29, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone else think so? Flyingtypefan 06:06, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

This very artwork was later heavily remade by Sugimori into a scene artwork with actual Latias and Latios. There's a girl that rides that Latios on that art. This isn't really the same girl but she looks a bit similar. You know which artwork I mean, don't you? --Maxim 07:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately, no. I didn't really pay attention to art and stuff with Gen III. Can you show me the art?--Pokélova! 11:18, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

It's at a:File:Latias_Latios.png. But I don't know if it's that important to this article-- unlike some of the Pokémon or characters on this page, this character probably was never intended to appear in any game. Methinks this artwork is merely intended to be just that, artwork. It doesn't have to correspond with anything from any game. --Andy^P_K^M_N 12:10, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

She's still an unreleased character with beta art.--Pokélova! 12:18, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Should she be referenced to then? - unsigned comment from Lovely Rose (talk • contribs)

Unnamed Turtle And Shuckle?

Though the article states it is similar to Squirtle, could it possibly be an evolved form of Shuckle? They both have a shell, they both have similarly shaped heads and considering Shuckle was introduced in generation II, it could have been an expansion on the family. Think of the expansions on gen II families in gen IV. This could have been the same thing. I do agree, however, it does look like Squirtle though. FrozenStrategy 19:32, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Unknown Pokemopolis Pokemon

During the episode The Ancient Puzzle of Pokemopolis, Brock is seen holding a statue of an unknown pokemon, worth a mention I think. http://www.serebii.net/anime/pictures/indigo/074ps1.shtml

Vuvuzela2010 04:20, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Wow, nice find. Definitely needs a mention. Perhaps the last one is trapped in the GS Ball :D And re-watching the episode, perhaps also the statues in sequence shortly after: here. I'm surprised no one noticed this before. I guess everyone repressed the memory of that horrifying french accent. - MK (^t/_c) 04:43, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Celebi is in the GS Ball. Kurt ate it. TTEchidna 04:49, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Heh. Closest Pokémon that frame fits is Teddiursa, but the difference is enough that I'd call it unknown. - MK (^t/_c) 04:51, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

I am now almost certain that the artifact is Honoguma with round ears, as they are both bear-like, have similar builds, obviously the markings would not normaly be part of the Pokemon, as the Psyduck artifact, Giant Gengar, Giant Alakazam & Giant Jigglypuff have similar markings, anybody else see the resemblance?Vuvuzela2010 12:17, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

"Resembles"

Can we excise all the speculation about what a released Pokémon each unreleased Pokémon somewhat resembles? Isn't it entirely possible that these Pokémon are entirely unreleased and in no way influenced the design of later Pokémon? Slowpokeisgod 09:13, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, for most of them from Generation II and onward, it's pretty obvious which later designs they influenced; take Happa for instance, it's obviously a beta Chikorita. But I wouldn't be against removing the speculation about the pre-Generation II art, such as the "unnamed turtle". --Andy^P_K^M_N 10:51, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I think the info that is obviously rubbish should be removed, such as Honoguma (a bear, & a starter) being related to Raichu, & Kurusu (also a starter) being a pre-evo of Seel or Lapras (no resemblance whatsoever), also, I cannot see any resemblance between the Turtle & Turtwig (yet another starter), & it is highly unlikely to be an evo of Squirtle (someone was obviously obsessed with starters!), the about the Turtle & Purutoga should stay however, since the similarities are pretty undeniable, the bit about Torkoal might as well stay too.Vuvuzela2010 11:29, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I happen to have the full artwork of the turtle and can say that it has very little resemblance to Purutoga. I think rather than having an actual relation they just have similar design themes, both being turtles and all. For example, the new electric flying squirrel resembles Pachirisu, but they're not related. They simply follow typical themes standard for a Pokemon of that type. Slowpokeisgod 00:39, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

couldn't the relation between the old turtle and new turtle be that the old one was scrapped concept art that was revived for the new generation when they decided to discount the old pokemon and make this one completely new?--Ash0011 20:28, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

EP072 thing

I wouldn't really try to search for any meaning in that bear-like thing from EP072. It's a random thing, most likely created for the anime only. It has no meaning. There's no evidence that it was ever intended to be a Pokemon. --Maxim 18:22, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Looking into it, it's a painted Psyduck figure.--immewnitythe mew 14:30, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

There is a Psyduck artifact, but thats not what this is about.Vuvuzela2010 14:40, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

the one that brock is holding looks more bear-ish and isn't yellow--Ash0011 20:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok, Really?

I know the pink top looks like Hitmontop but it looks clearly like a Clefairy as well, and Cleffa came the next generation did it not? The "Meoth whiskers" thing is a bit vaque though. But can we at least mention Clefairy? --Landfish7 20:17, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Turtle

couldn't the relation between the old turtle and new turtle be that the old one was scrapped concept art that was revived for the new generation when they decided to discount the old pokemon and make this one completely new?--Ash0011 00:35, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Hellooo anyone care to comment?--Ash0011 22:08, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

That's just speculation, we don't know that. And its not like Shellos and Gastordon, which were saved for the next generation, there is a 3 Generation (and 10 year) difference. Also, the artwork we currently have doesn't show the whole Pokemon, so untill we have that, we can't really speculate about this (if someone knows where to find the original, non-cropped artwork, please post it). XVuvuzela2010X 23:59, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

someone on the resembles thread says they have it.--Ash0011 21:40, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I spotted that yesterday, I've posted a comment on their talk page, but thanks for mentioning that anyway. Still no reply though :( If it turns out to be a dead end, I might look around the web myself, though where to find a reliable, non-fan-created picture is the problem. XVuvuzela2010X 21:47, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Arachnoid

In the episode "The Superhero Secret" there is a strange arachnoid. It can be seen on this page [1] Kodde 11:35, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

That's team rocket's robot--Ash0011 04:06, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

No it isn't. If you watch the episode you can see that it dosen't move mechanicaly and it dosen't say anywhere that it is team Rockets robot. Kodde 10:03, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Having just watched the episode, it would certainly seem to be a Pokemon, even if it is just supposed to be a prop (it even has a cry), though it would have been created for just this episode (though it's not the first anime-exclusive Pokemon). It is odd however, that they did not just use a giant Spinarak. It should be added, if you want to add it feel free, though I will probably get round to adding it tommorrow.XVuvuzela2010X 17:47, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

It's a fictional monster. Fictional from the Pokémon world's point of view too. --Maxim 18:13, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

In other words, it is a fictional Pokemon, like how some legendaries are seen in universe to be fictional? Still worth noting. XVuvuzela2010X 19:05, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

That's obivously not what Maxim ment. That thing is obviously not ment to be a Pokémon. It's only ment to be a fictional monster for Gligarman to fight. If you're going to include that thing, you may as well include the Mongoose from Ghost of Madien's Peak episode or the worm Pidgeotto ate in episode 3, or the "Legendary Water Pokémon" Misty imagined in the Slowpoke Enlightenment episode Etc.PDL 19:31, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

But we don't know if it is not a Pokemon for certain, though I wouldnt say the others should be included, the mongoose is just Gastly, and I think the worm is just meant to be a real worm. I have not seen the Slowpoke episode however, so I cannot say anything about that thing (though I am getting it up on my laptop now). XVuvuzela2010X 20:02, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

It was shown only in a fictional story of Gligarman. So, it's reasonable to assume that it doesn't exist in the Pokemon world. --Maxim 20:07, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

oooooh that one okay that shouldn't count because that looks like it's in one of those old giant spider-godzilla movies.--Ash0011 20:22, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

If you think it shouldnt be on the page, then you can remove it, though I still feel it should be in the article, as it is for Unreleased Pokemon, and even though it may be fictional, it is still seems highly likely that it is a fictional Pokemon, and thus releavant to the article. As for not existing in the Pokemon world, with the possible exeption of the EP072 bear, none of the unreleased Pokemon on this page would exist in the Pokemon world either... XVuvuzela2010X 20:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

okay then that makes sense--Ash0011 21:33, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps it would be better to have a separate list for "Non-Pokémon" creatures and keep this entry specifically about Unreleased or beta Pokémon As they are ment to appear in the games. Anime only stuff hardly counts. PDL 23:06, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

While I disagree with your Anime only stuff hardly counts comment, as the anime is often used to showcase unreleased Pokemon (like Togepi, the gold Ho-Oh in EP001, or possibly the bear with a rather striking resemblance to Honoguma in EP072), the seperate list doesn't sound like a bad idea actually. Though I would prefer the name List of disputed Pokemon or something along those lines, as there is already a list for non-Pokemon. This page would need to be renamed to reflect the change, unless the list would simply be a new section on this page? XVuvuzela2010X 23:47, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Then I wonder why Zapmolcuno isn't here. --Maxim 10:42, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

I was refraining from adding it, incase everything was to be moved around. Same goes for Venustoise, the unreleased Unown forms seen in M03, the Sun and the Fairy seen in the book of Legendary Pokemon in M03, the wooden Celebi seen in M04, and the creature attacking Alto Mare at the start of M05. XVuvuzela2010X 17:52, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps we really should keep this page for Pokémon artwork that's explicitly "beta". Anime appearences of "non-Pokémon" should really go to a different page. PDL 00:42, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

I think that We should add the ones mentioned above as they are presumably pokémon and I think we should add a section for pokemon appearing only in the manga that have no natural explanation such as Zapmolcuno and the manga dialga/palkia fusion statue at eterna city (there is a picture of it on the eterna city talk page).--Nobody777 17:58, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

they should be added, but for now, you can add them to this page

User:Vuvuzela2010/Disputed Pokémon

XVuvuzela2010X 19:26, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Kurusu = Daikenki/Samurott?

Does anybody here see a resemblance between the unreleased Kurusu and the 5th-Gen Samurott/Daikenki?

Kurusu

--Bad Grim 04:52, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Um..... No. They're vaguely the same shape and that's it. Ikarishipper900 04:00, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

I see it... Quadrupeds, probably water-type, maybe a very old possibility for Oshawott? Shinyzubat123 21:22, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

The similarity is as obvious as between Honoguma, Pikachu/Raichu and Marill... Ariano 06:41, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Bellossom? Jynx?

If Bellossom is on here for a color change, shouldn't Jynx be as well? To be honest I feel like Bellossom being on here is a little sketchy since the dark blue coloring was obviously released. However, if Bellossom is valid, Jynx should be on here too, right? Ikarishipper900 03:59, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

No. Jynx was originally black and released as black coloured, but it was changed along the course of the franchise. While Bellossom was previewed to be dark blue, but was changed to a green colour before release.--F orce F ire 09:31, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

But wasn't this official GSC artwork? Why is that considered before release? Ikarishipper900 04:38, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

More unreleased Pokemon - Japanese translation needed

In the Capsule Monsters sketches, one shows two unreleased Pokemon, with their numbers and possibly Pokedex entries. Can someone please translate this? - unsigned comment from Vuvuzela2010 (talk • contribs)

The bug is Papyō and the cat is Buhī.--電禅Den Zen 15:30, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

And here's three new Pokés: the lizard is Godzillante, the ape is Gorillaimo and the Dragon is Dragon4.--電禅Den Zen 17:53, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for that! I've added them all in now. Do you know what the text entries next to those five Pokemon say? It looks like it could be a Pokedex entry, or maybe it says what type they are? XVuvuzela2010X 20:39, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

I can't really translate Japanese text; I mainly just romanize katakana and hiragana.--電禅Den Zen 20:49, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

I'd personally make a separate section, or maybe even separate article for Capsule Monsters. They deserve a special place! --Maxim 12:01, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Well, we do have Capsule Monsters. This is basically just an extension of that. --SnorlaxMonster 12:42, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

So, I'd rather add them there or start a new article "List of known Capsule Monsters" or something like that. I don't think that the prototypes of Pokemon and scrapped Pokemon designs invented later should belong together. --Maxim 08:12, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree. They are two different things. --SnorlaxMonster 10:11, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Moving to Prototype Pokemon and characters...

I'd like to suggest that this article be moved to "Prototype Pokémon and characters". Not only does this article list things that have been unreleased, but it also lists Pokemon whose designs had simply been alerted, and are therefore still technically released. "Prototype" can easily refer to both kinds, so I'd like to suggest that the article be moved to that. Rai Marshall 19:49, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

I concur ^Sui _Scorpio 02:23, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Because half of this page is "altered", not "unreleased", I think the more universal term "prototype" is better suited. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 06:34, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

First, I think that early Capsule Monsters should be covered separately and things like Bellossom should be deleted. It doesn't fit here. --Maxim 07:41, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Even if a listing of Capsule Monsters do get their own page, there's still other kinds of Pokemon designs that were still simply alerted, like those Gen II alters. There's still a reason for this to be called "Prototype Pokémon and characters". Rai Marshall 20:03, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Why should Bellossom be deleted? It was altered before release, and is relevant to the article. XVuvuzela2010X 20:09, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Also, I would support the move. XVuvuzela2010X 20:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Actually, the artwork with purple Bellossom is its actual GS artwork (a final thing, not an early sketch like the rest). So, it's not really unreleased. At the same logic, we should also add Slowpoke here because it had a stripped belly in the original GSC. Many Pokemon has been given cosmetic design changes over the generations and it's really hard to call their older designs "prototype". --Maxim 07:54, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

The Bellossom artwork was like that years before G/S were released, they just never bothered changing it. And Slowpoke is hardly the same, that was just a sprite error. XVuvuzela2010X 09:36, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Sprite error? "Error" implies accident. This doesn't look like an accident. There's no artwork from that era which contradicts that "error", hence no proof that it's an error. And the fact that Bellossom's artwork wasn't changed means that it's to be treated as a final thing. And compared to the other prototypes we have, it's a really minor change. --Maxim 14:18, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

I support the move: I just think that a word better than prototype could be chose. It sounds too mechanical. ^Maverick _Nate 14:25, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

In response to the Bellossom point. The alterations to Bellossom are the same as those that Jynx undertook. They were both one color-scheme up until some time after their release, and then they were both changed post-release. If one should be included here then so should the other I would think. Thanks. ^Sui _Scorpio 20:50, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Error does not always mean accidental, it can also mean they screwed it up. A good example is the 'upside down' Koffing from Red and Blue (or any other sprite from Red/Green/Blue), obviously intentional. And Slowpoke's striped belly has not been seen in the anime, TCG, or any other media, even though it should be partially visible in its TCG artwork and its Ken Suginori Bandai artwork.

Also, Jynx does not count, since it was released. XVuvuzela2010X 05:28, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Sorry about Jynx, I got confused about the Bellossom artwork not changing. Slowpoke's striped belly can be seen in the Bandai artwork for Aerodactyl: http://pkmncollectors.livejournal.com/3016560.html ^Sui _Scorpio 05:55, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

That's like saying that Charmander was 'prototype' because it once had spikes on its back. Ken Sugimori's early art had a lot of things depicted that were either changed or remove in subsequent games. Likewise with in-game sprites, such as the GRB Machamp with spikes on its head. But in all honesty, this section is supposed to be for discussion on whether this article should be moved, NOT whether Bellossum or Slowpoke was prototype. Can someone please split this up? Rai Marshall 06:02, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Noted, I've moved it to the section below. XVuvuzela2010X 12:07, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Er, no. This wasn't split up. Rai Marshall 01:05, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Palette changes

Rather than just delete, lets harness the power of the talk page. Should altered palettes, like those found below, be included in the altered Pokémon section? ^Sui _Scorpio 20:42, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Wynaut

Debut	Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire beta

Main article: Wynaut (Pokémon)

Pre-release screenshots of Wynaut show that it was going to be green in color rather than blue.

Excadrill

Debut	Pokémon Black and White beta

Main article: Excadrill (Pokémon)

In Excadrill's first appearance in a promotional video, it was colored purple instead of brown and its stripes were mirrored. However, this was not long-lived, as it was changed to its current appearance in the next video.

Both are video quality's fault. When the screenshot of Wynaut surfaced, we have already had its artwork revealed and it looked just like now, so there was never a design change. And this Excadrill was extracted from a very low-quality video. Actually, all colors on this video are off. Even Haxorus is greenish yellow. That's nothing more than a matter of quality. All high quality versions of the same video had correct colors. --Maxim 09:01, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Sorry to blend in the conversation, but how about Excadrill's belly pattern? That can't be a quality error, can it? Tyrani Throne 11:12, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

My view is, it would probably be better to include those with minor alterations, such as Exadrill and Tyranitar, in a Minor alterations subsection. XVuvuzela2010X 11:29, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Does anyone know the exact date when Bellossom's GS artwork was released? If it was after its first anime appearance (where it was green), it could be worth mentioning the contradiction. XVuvuzela2010X 12:07, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Buizel

I remember I saw once a scan of a magazine released before the release of D&P showing a black siloutte of Buizel with two "collars" instead of one. If I find it again may this added to this page? Also the Unnamed turtle actually have legs, it isn't "just a head sticking out of a shell". --SamuStar 16:27, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Altered human designs

There's a template for Altered Pokemon Designs, so why not for the humans? I can think of a few who received design overhauls.. As said Silver's hair was shorter in the concept art, Kris seems to have gotten a design overhaul from the beta to the main product, and that seems to be Red in the Capsule Monster sketches. Dia Sprite 23:52, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Who are this Pokemon?

Seriously... Who? I thought the fish was Basculin but the name does not match, then we have that... Siloutte thing next to Deerling that does not match any of the forms of neither Deerling or Sawsbuck, Alomomola design is noticeable different (and shares traits with Luvdisc: Shape, "blush sticker" and mouth, I think it was once planned to be an evolution) and Pansage is fat.

I also noticed the battle sprites are similar to those of Generation IV, same half-body back-sprites.

Found here. LurKasumi 09:18, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

That image was a hoax from the Japanese Black and White pre-release period. - Kogoro - Talk to me - 09:28, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Oh derp, thanks. LurKasumi 09:35, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Additions

Here's a whole bunch of stuff to add for someone who has the time to add it in. Vuvuzela2010 ☠ 19:36, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I plan on adding these soon. They supposedly originated on Game Freak's blog in one of the archived posts, though I wasn't able to find it; I read about it as a recent addition on the Japanese Pokémon Wiki, and I believe its been considered before about adding these when SmearglePaints (Redstar (talk • contribs)) brought it up on the forums last year.

There is a Japanese website focusing on lost Pokémon which hosts that artwork and has further information about more Generation II lost Pokémon other than the three 'starters' and variations (namely 'Akua', 'Akueria', 'Netamon' and 'Elekingu') which were apparently seen in the Nintendo Space World 1997 demo but had only their names shown. The Japanese Pokémon Wiki also had these and more variations which none of the other sources mention, though I don't know of the validity. I uploaded the Japanese Pokémon Blue artwork because of some of the ambiguous designs, I don't know if they should count though. --Chickasaurus 20:58, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

The recent images added are fan drawings, not official artwork of any kind. As such they should be removed. Slowpokeisgod 02:31, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Oh ok, is that right? I'm wondering then where the author (ボツポケモン応援隊) originally got the concept from. I know of some sprites of them but I'm unsure of their legitimacy. I heard that these Pokémon were shown on Game Freak's website but I haven't been able to find an archived version of the original page yet. --Chickasaurus 13:33, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

The sprite sheet is fully legitimate. I'd have to ask my friend the exact place it was found, which provided information on when they were secured, but I'd say there's enough sources to indicate this as a legitimate find. Slowpokeisgod 08:07, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Pocket Monsters Blue designs

"Near the bottom right is a Pokémon face, possibly based on Nidorino." It looks like Pidgeotto to me--SamuStar 18:35, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Not that one...the one to the left and up. LimeGreenCharizard♂ 19:57, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Now I see, thank you. At first it looked like Venomoth to me, but it's surely Nidorino (or at least Nidoran♂) --SamuStar 20:15, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Some early designs

Early artwork on the pocket monsters cardass trading cards page shows a pikachu with a white belly and large execute with small ones the designs are the same as what they looked like in there red blue and green sprites so i think they should be on this page because the kakuna and rhyhorn with the same story are on there. Also there is a graveler with golden fingures on that page too. Kybett98 04:45, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Someone should probably add the Carddass Charmander and the early back sprites for him, since the card shows his now-unexistant ridges down his back.Mefredbob 09:41, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Oh yes i never noticed him i saw that the ones i requested where added but have now been removed why? - unsigned comment from Kybett98 (talk • contribs)

Unnamed Turtle

I think the unnamed turtle could be a Pokémon with no roots in any other Pokémon, meaning it was originally going to be a seperate Pokémon but was completely scrapped, and perhaps it was related to Kurusu. Can anyone shoot me down with fact? Shinyzubat123 21:30, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Even more designs

Recently, this year users on TGBUS revealed a few more designs, and annotated some of the existing ones in English e.g. "The inside of a hotel. You can see a device for healing your Pokémon inside". I've seen the former sprites (below) on 2chan, but was unsure of its legitimacy, since its marked December 1997. It would be most appreciated if someone could translate it. I have heard that Nyosuka and others were mentioned once on Gamefreak's official Japanese website, but I can't find the original page and I'm unsure if images of them were ever officially revealed. Sorry, if that's a lot to ask for though.

Sprites
Kabīn --Chickasaurus 13:22, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

The sprite list featuring the early designs for the Poliwhirl, Weedle and Dratini lines are indeed official. A friend of mine discovered them several months ago on a blog by someone who salvaged them back in 1999. My friend also has an English translation for the text seen within the image. Slowpokeisgod 06:26, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Do you mean this blog? I came across it later last Wednesday when doing an image search of the artwork. I once saw the images on 2chan, but I thought they were probably fake and confused them with the fan artwork on The Lost Pokémon. The Japanese Pokémon Wiki seems to reaffirm information about them originating from Game Freak's website as well. I actually posted for a translation request on Jul last October but never got anything back. That's great to hear that your friend took the time to translate it! Do you have a link to the translated version? --Chickasaurus 07:05, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, that blog is run by the same friend who discovered the sheet. The Lost Pokemon site (an affiliate of the RCB site and a correspondence of mine) had info on the sprites for awhile and we're actively looking for them. Because of them I went on the chase, but my friend was able to turn them up herself after I had given up. The Lost Pokemon then discovered themselves just a few weeks or months afterwards, so they get credit for spreading it on the Japanese side of things.

I've just had my friend provide the translation. Find it here. Slowpokeisgod 08:07, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Thank you and wimscoot so much for this! I've gathered some thoughts on why it might say "Pokémon 2" even though the designs don't seem to belong to Generation II but I realize that here isn't a good place to speculate about this. What is your username on Bulbagarden Forums? (I'm Torchickens) I also apologize for the relatively late reply. --Chickasaurus 17:31, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Stunfisk

Beta Version from Stunfisk [2]??? --Altruis 17:10, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

That was from the Nintendo Dream interview, and it is most likely true, so it should be added. Vuvuzela2010 Δ 17:46, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Game-on Exhibition

It may be old news, but for those asking for references, I took pictures from this long-running exhibition called Game On. It had some concept works on some game franchises and Pokémon was one of them. Check here for info on the expo. There were some Ruby/Sapphire sketches there, such as the Torchic with floppy ears Torchic with floppy ears, the Treecko sketches (maybe a little clearer here) and the Blaziken/Latias one. There were also this other sketch of a floppy-eared Torchic and this early Groudon sketch. KurowaSan 03:21, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

I went to the expo again today and tried to get some better photos of the art. I'll try to upload them to Bulbagaren Archives and add them to the articles. KurowaSan 02:28, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Where is this geographically?Jdrawer 02:38, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Those are of most interest. If it happens to be there tomorrow do you plan to try to take a picture of all Pokemon sketches that you can? Also nice to hear you took more photos today. The beta Treecko looked like it had a bit of a Grovyle look to it on the arms. Salamence didn't look much different. Wonder why Torchic had the most redos, a floppy eared, then chubby floppy ears, interesting. Frozen Fennec 03:34, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

It goes around the world since 2002, always adding some new stuff to it. Right now, the expo is in Brasilia, Brazil.

I uploaded the pictures to Bulbagarden Archives. Torchic's [[3]] and Latiken's [[4]] were added to the articles already, substituting the old ones. Treecko's [[5]] (it wouldn't let me substitute the old one, so I just uploaded it separately and didn't change the article), Groudon's [[6]] and Torchic's other concept art [[7]] were only uploaded, but not added to any of the articles. Someone please do it for me. xD KurowaSan 03:51, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Excellent then. As for replacing the old images, I can see doing so for the Torchic but not the others at the moment. The new Torchic image you uploaded is great though since it is closer and higher quality, thanks for uploading the image. :) Frozen Fennec 03:54, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Ah as for the Treecko image, click on it, the click description page under the image which is in bold. Log in on the archives if not already and scroll down, click on upload new version of this file. Frozen Fennec 03:59, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I did that for the Treecko picture, but it said it had some trouble cause the old picture is a png file and the new one is a jpg. Even after I tried converting the new pic to png, it wouldn't accept. (Nevermind, it worked now. lol) KurowaSan 04:09, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

I see the Groundon image has been uploaded but where would the image go? Prototype or Minor Alterations? Frozen Fennec 01:01, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

I believe "Minor alterations" would be more accurate, as it basically remained the same, except for those marks it shares with Kyogre and Rayquaza (at least that's the only thing I noticed). KurowaSan 01:19, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

More designs

I found this site and it appears to have lots of legit designs that we're missing around here, despite being mixed up with fanart and fakes. But are the apparently legit ones really legit? Please discuss these findings. SatoMew 16:41, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Hehe, I've heard of this. There's this deviantArt group called TheLostPokemon, which is for the Pokemon in this article. The stuff's pretty legit (though I'd still want to check out the blog). A lot of the members of the group are artists, so their artwork is probably on the blog. Jdrawer 22:59, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

I run the dA group while my friend runs the tumblr blog. I can assure you that any fanwork is stated to be such while actual concept/design artwork is legit. Slowpokeisgod 21:47, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Unused girl on boxes?

The text about this girl states "The image was shown on the boxes for the games" referring to the one that only her back is shown. I've checked the Japanese box of Pokémon Green and didn't see the picture. Is this statement false? |) u |( e ® 05:10, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Apparently so (I don't own the Japanese games, but I plan on getting them), and I still have all the English games from long ago, but unfortunately without any box inserts. According to the box data on GameFAQs, the artwork doesn't appear on the back of Japanese Blue or Yellow (Pocket Monsters Pikachu) either. Perhaps the user who added it was referring to the instruction booklet? It might be worth noting that there was an official strategy guide for Red and Green featuring the artwork. It's also interesting how this guidebook credits Ape Inc, the predecessor of Creatures Inc. --Chickasaurus 00:27, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

fluffy torchic

Am I the only one who instantly thought of Vullaby after seeing the fluffy torchic in the eggshell?Auragirl 04:08, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

The guy who looks like a gymleader

In the article it says he was probably a dark gymleader but to me he looks more like a ground or rock user because tyranitar is ground as well,the turtle looks like a rock type and the hitmontop thing has a creamy dirt color plus he is wearing a turban with a gemSTONE does anyone agree?And he might of been the original concept for the first gym leader since he has only 3 pokemon that again to me seem like ground thus continueing rock(ground) type first gym.VENUS,MEGA,SCEPT,TORTE,SERP 19:03, 20 May 2012 (UTC) forget the first gym thing.VENUS,MEGA,SCEPT,TORTE,SERP 18:30, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Surely you meant Tyranitar is Rock/Dark-type. Anyways, it's only speculation that he's Dark-type Gym Leader (he could just have been a regular trainer), but his clothes and hair style refer to dark. Also, he most likely was not the first Gym Leader as most Gym Leaders encountered first have two Pokemon (only Roark has three). It could also be noted that some Gym Leaders have Pokémon that are not of their speciality type (namely Volkner and Cilan, Chili and Cress) and Rock-type specialists other than Roark generally have very little in their appearance to connect with their speciality type, plus in final product all Johto Gyms specialized in types that were not present in Kanto, at which time it would've been odd to use Gyms that "had been" there before (like Rock or Ground Gyms). I also can't picture the polypod Pokemon as a Rock-type. Ariano 12:21, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Thundurus and Tornadus color change

It's stated Troh's and Sawk's horns were removed because Thundurus and Tornadus were blue and red, but they had later there color changed. So, why don't they get a place on this page? Maybe they can share there column with Troh and Sawk... Nickvang (talk) 12:33, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Cries

I attempted to post this as a comment on the YouTube video, but of course the stupid piece of shit excuse for a website kept giving me an "error try again" without any explanation. I guess this works just as well here anyways:

I've researched these cries for a while now and I hate how everyone keeps saying MissingNo. 0x45 sounds like Crobat or Golbat. Of course it does, because it is an *exact* copy of Zubat's cry. I'm following the same conclusion as everyone else (I hope it really way Crobat), but no one ever seems to realize that it isn't just similar to Zubat, it's exact. This also applies to MissingNo. 0x89 being an *exact* copy of Dragonair.

P.S. My notes: http://pastebin.com/yCry6qce -- Stag019 (talk) 19:42, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Shopkeeper?

Looking at the image I'm quite curious as to what the embryo thing is. Is it possibly a Pokemon or something? Also is it possible the creature in the cage to the left is an earlier version and possibly smaller version of Slowbro? Frozen Fennec 18:57, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

The embro thing does appear to be a Pokémon, but I don't know what though. The thing in the cage does appear to be a early version of Slowbro. I think it probably would be a good idea to wait for some more opinions about that though, or just add it. Lady Ariel (talk) 20:32, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

I think I shall wait for a few more opinions before adding that Slowbro bit. Just to make sure it is possible that it might be an early version. Frozen Fennec 20:39, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

I dunno about Slowbro but the 'embryo' is probably a small Water Pokémon. --Spriteit (talk) 01:38, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

It seems that Kage No Mushi is a fake

This Tumblr post claims that the Pokémon may indeed be a fake made by one of the blog owner's friends. In fact, as a response to my answer, the owner said that Bulbapedia did take all the info on that Pokémon from that blog. Is this correct? If so, we should remove it from the list right away. hfc 2X 06:57, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Removed it from the list. --Relicant (talk) 16:58, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Kazeniga and Rokku

In this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU7M5KAfYWA), there seems to be two Pokemon, (Kazeniga and Rokku) in the vein of Gorillaimo and Godzillante. Should we add them? Jdrawer (talk) 21:41, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Munna in Generation 1?

Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember correctly, didn't an NPC near Rock Tunnel mention seeing a pink Pokémon with flowers on it in the cave? If they did, then that would mean Munna's origin dates as far back as Generation I. If all of this is true, should I add it onto the page? I can also look for an image that details the Munna in the game. Pokedex493 (talk) 19:21, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Correction, they were actually talking about the fact that there should be and I quote, 'a pink one with a floral pattern.' The link to the picture is [8]. I apologize for the profanity in the name. This is where I found the pic. Pokedex493 (talk) 19:26, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Who is that bug pokemon?

Hello There. WHO IS that bug pokemon: --Cool Sam (talk) 16:55, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

My first reaction is it looks like the old 'scrubbing bubbles' mascot used by Dow cleaning agent. --GARY-DOS (talk) 07:14, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Shopkeeper

Since the similarity to the sumo character from Quinty/Mendel Palace is noted, wouldn't it also be worth noting alongside that there is an unused sprite which appears in the Gen III games which is presumably[9] a redesign of a sprite of the same character? --GARY-DOS (talk) 18:55, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Split

Unused cries only belong in the development leftover articles. The designs of Pokémon and characters can be mentioned in the Development section of the game articles. SatoMew 23:44, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Kabiin

I remember, when I first saw this one in "A Man who Created Pokemon," I was certain that it was a playful reference to Kirby. But now I can't locate my copy of the book, so I don't know if there's a date on these thumbnail sketches that would disprove this theory (ie. if these are sketches from around 1989-1990, the Kirby reference is unlikely). Does anyone have any info to help, maybe have the book on hand to check? 梅子 ^❀_✿ 03:10, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

I have the book too (the 'cards' cover and not the Pulseman cover). However, I unfortunately cannot find a date. I'm afraid. Here is a scan of the page. Additionally I thought it would be worth noting that on page 293 with the monster coming out of the capsule, the page says "Monster Capsule TM" ポータブルモンスターカプセル PCM-55R $198 00, I don't know if those people who did high resolution scans (from Blue Reflections?) of the concept art showed us that. Chickasaurus (talk) 15:47, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Sources

Can we please have where we got the info added next to each of the designs. It's nice that we have all this early artwork, but it would be much better to clarify which is from books, which is from interviews, etc. --SnorlaxMonster 10:09, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Should we add Mega Flygon?

Apparently they wanted Flygon to have a mega evolution, but they couldn't come up with a good one. Unowninator (talk) 19:44, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Where's your source on this?--Force Fire 02:37, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Well, I heard it on serebii months ago, and then just today, I was at the Flygon page and saw the same thing in the Trivia. It's also in Mega Evolution. Unowninator (talk) 02:48, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Oh, I see. I guess it could be added.--Force Fire 03:01, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

I'd do it myself, but I'm not sure how to make it (though I may be able to figure that out. BTW, should it get a new section? Or use one of the current ones? Unowninator (talk) 03:57, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Interesting Gen II finds

Recently I've found some possibly important info, if poorly translated on Gen II unused Pokémon seemingly from the spaceworld demo. Some are just alternate names for know Pokémon, but some like Animon and Ikari(Anchor?) seem to be unused, should we add this? Links:1,2 Shadowsonic5000 (talk) 01:05, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

resemblance

I would like to point out a few things that I noticed: 1. The unused final evolution of weedle looks like the gen 1 bug type party sprite.

2. Eggshell torchic reminded me of vullaby.

3. Am I the only one who thinks that the turtle might be torkoal? --Wizardfox (talk) 02:50, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Obscure Honōguma image — Legitimacy?

In a 2013 tweet, a Twitter user called Katsu Nagao posted an alleged screenshot of Honōguma and a Metapod (but red/orange instead of green) from Next Generation World Hobby Fair on January 1998. Catstorm26 noticed this and posted it about it on Twitter/forums recently. More information (1, 2). Katsu Nagao claimed it to be real and it seems rather convincing, but is it convincing enough to add to the page? --Chickasaurus (talk) 21:53, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Girafarig and Happa sprites

This image was taken from a 1998 video featuring footage of the Spaceworld 1997 demo of Gold and Silver. Girafarig's original design is shown in this screenshot, as is Happa's back sprite. Unlike the sketch shown in the article, it looks like Chikorita's design was actually finalized by this point in development; the only difference being that its legs are fully visible in its back sprite in the demo, whereas they are cropped out in the final game. --CartmanKusanagi (talk) 06:52, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

The sketch is just a fanart drawn from memory, so it seems only natural that it differs from the real thing. To me, this in-game screencap confirms that Happa was already a fully-realized "Chikorita" at that point, design-wise at least. Therefore, it should be treated as a beta name, rather than an "unreleased design", in my opinion. --Maxim (talk) 11:45, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

I've added screenshots for Beta Girafarig and Hoppip, both from the same footage at SpaceWorld 1997. I will remove the section on this page for 'Happa' as clearly Chikorita was a finalised design by this point. It strikes me that both the sketches for Beta Marill and Beta Qwilfish are highly likely to be misremembered fan interpretations, and that both of these designs could well have been finalised by 1997. However the longevity of these sketches probably earns them the right to remain, at least until screenshots surface proving otherwise. ^Sui _Scorpio 12:04, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Considering that Chikorita/Happa's early artwork still displays demonstrable differences from its final appearance (yellow eyes and neck buds, an indistinct blob-like body with multiple small 'legs'), it's been moved to the 'Minor alterations' section in subsequent revisions. The artwork should also be kept as long as the Kurusu/Honoguma/Marill/Qwilfish artwork is kept, as they all clearly came from the same source. Jennyjams (talk) 16:07, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Disregard the above, I misunderstood something. The sketches are apparently fan recreations of Pokemon seen in the demo, which means that the Chikorita sketch was likely a recreation/misremembering of the final sprite. Jennyjams (talk) 16:17, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

I don't know why it's now in Altered Designs, given the design in that screenshot looks almost identical to this one

. Maybe this page needs an 'Altered Names' section specifically? ^Sui _Scorpio 07:50, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I agree but I don't think there should be a section called "Altered Names". For now, I've redirected Happa to Pokémon Gold and Silver beta because I think it should be mentioned there as a pre-release name. I haven't actually added it to the page because I'm no expert on this and there appears to be more pre-release names that I'm not aware of (for example, see Nidoking's pre-release name, Maiko, under the "Satoshi Tajiri manga designs" discussion below). --Wowy_(토크) 08:44, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Satoshi Tajiri manga designs

--Poke lova 03:09, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

It looks like there are even more here, but the Japanese text is really small so it's hard to read.

https://twitter.com/kyle_toom/status/997019544299294720 --Chickasaurus (talk) 15:34, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Here's what the list of names says:

２１　ビリリダマ (Voltorb)

２２　ベロリンガ (Lickitung)

２３　コイル　(Magnemite)

２４　カクタス (Cactus)*

２５　ユンゲラー (Kadabra)

２６　スリーパー (Hypno)

２７　マイコー・オス (Maiko♂ (This is Nidoking's beta name [10]))

２８　ブー (Boo)*

２９　バルンダ（Ａ）(Blunder (A))*

３０　ストライク(Scyther)

３１　ディグダ (Diglett)

Mefredbob (talk) 22:11, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Worth noting that this page also notes the beta name of Blastoise vs. Staryu (as Karabajio vs. Mimii) that is listed in this image.

Still wonder exactly what Gyaoon is, Japanese commenters seem equally confused. However, Farfetch'd seems to be clearly キクパーン (kikupaan) to them (although I confess I can't read the first kana to save my life, nor pull literally any meaning out of that either). Apologies if I've messed up the formatting.

Breh (talk) 05:39, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Alleged unused Pokémon we only know the name of

The Japanese Pokémon Wiki has had these listed for quite a long time (source: https://wiki.ポケモン.com/wiki/没ポケモンの一覧 relevant section: "名前のみで未発表になったポケモン"), and I think (though I'm not exactly sure), they may have been talked about in old accounts of the Space World 1997 demo, but given the Mandella effect it may be risky to add them, especially Netamon which is almost a typo of Metamon (Ditto).

These included: Aqua, Eleking, Netamon and allegedly shown in a video during the demo explaining new features of the Pokédex: Aquaria, Animon, Ikari.

The Cutting Room Floor article

Also on the subject of unused Pokémon with no images from Generation I, this tweet (second image) shows the handwritten names of many Pokémon in the poll, but sometimes we have no way of linking them with an existing Pokémon (or known unused Pokémon) or the handwriting may be hard to read. --Chickasaurus (talk) 21:07, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Suggestions

-Add the other unused Pokemon from the Satoshi TaJiri manga and use higher quality images for the ones already on the page. This includes: A Pokemon that looks like a bird from Kirby, a Pokemon that looks like a Shy Guy from Mario, a Kanto Pokemon that appears to be similar to Tyranitar, and a Pokemon that is a white ball.

-There is also an early version of Combee in that manga.

-There is a higher quality image of the unused Kanto elliphant Pokemon.

-There is a higher quality image of the unused Pokemon that looks similar to Seel.

-Remove the image of Tirtouga, there is no reason to think why that Pokemon has anything to do with the unused Pokemon it is being compared to.

-Take the unused Pokemon that are referred to as "early versions of Gengar & Nidorino" out of the the altered Pokemon section and put them in the unreleased Pokemon section, there is no reason to assume they are related to Gengar & Nidorino.

-Take out the word "designs", these are unused Pokemon, not unused "Pokemon designs". --Horsecooker (talk) 20:31, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

-Drednaw from the upcoming Gen VII bears a lot more resemblance to the unused pokemon than Tirtouga.

Space World demo leak

https://nintendosoup.com/pokemon-golds-space-world-1997-demo-has-been-leaked/ --Poke lova 11:03, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Pokémon Gold Design Links

So I found out some used designs on plans in said game through this link http://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/05/31/pokemon-gold-demo-rom-leak-new-evolutions/ . Can we add them in on the page with approval of course?--Jacob Kogan (talk) 15:45, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

We aren't sure if the leak is legitimate. It could be a hoax to hype up the nostalgia train from the recent pre-RG reveals.--Force Fire 05:25, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Are you serious? Do you really think someone spent the time and effort to build a ROM that isn't based off of the Gold ROM, created 100 new Pokemon, added new items and removed features like breeding, changed base stats, and then made the game basically unplayable without the debug menu so they could "hype up the nostalgia train"? Are you an idiot?--Nintenfreak (talk) 06:08, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

In my opinion, it's too much of a coincidence that it comes a month (weeks?) after the RG stuff. And there are such things as hoaxers putting in the utmost effort to make something appear legitimate.--Force Fire 06:11, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Also, it's a demo/prototype, making it unplayable would help make it seem legitimate.--Force Fire 06:12, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

So, it really shouldn't need saying, but it really deserves it right now: Let's not get into slinging insults, 'kay?

The things you mention are persuasive, Nintenfreak, but at least for a while, we'd like to give it a bit of time to see how things look when people have had more than just a few dozen hours to look at it. Tiddlywinks (talk) 06:16, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Honoguma and Kurusu

The images used for Honoguma and Kurusu are not official art- they are fan recreations ([11]). Should they be removed? --Celadonkey 18:57, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

The images for early Marill, Girafarig, and Ledyba are fan created as well. --Celadonkey 19:03, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

As far as Glitterberri is concerned, seems all the images were recreated shortly after the SpaceWorld 1997 event. Given they have font all over them (as does the early Silver fan created art), it seems more than likely they were recreated to display in a gaming magazine at the time. Frozen Fennec 03:11, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Ah, that makes more sense. Thank you. --Celadonkey 23:34, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

The fan art was made for someone's personal website, just fyi. https://twitter.com/dmrn28/status/1006084888712208384 Yoriven (talk) 11:56, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Leaked Pokémon from Spaceworld Demo of Pokémon Gold/Silver.

So just recently, the 1997 Spaceworld demo for Pokémon Gold & Silver has just resurfaced on the Internet, and it turns out that there was a BUNCH of Pokémon that have not been used or have been heavily altered in the final release. Considering that there is about a hundred of these unused/altered Pokémon, how should we even list them on here? SquirtleLover1999 (talk) 07:52, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

We are aware and is being discussed above.--Force Fire 08:09, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

I mean, unless it is proven to not be fake it shouldn't be added, right? ExLight (talk) 19:53, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Exactly.

Adding to the discussion, though. This link was posted in the Bulbapedia discord: [12]

Obviously it's not a source that would confirm something, but the fact that there was unused data in Gold and Silver that matches the Spaceworld leaked demo that was not noticed until after the demo leaked is certainly interesting. It's not my call, though, we need to wait for staff to reach a decision regarding the demo until anything is treated as fact. --Celadonkey 23:34, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

I, personally, believe this is fake. There are some discrepancies in the demo contents with some info (such as some of Kouichi Hiwasa's account to Glitterberri) as well as some questionable sprites in it. The staff is probably divided too, but I wonder if it is really possible to reach a veredict without an official pronouncement by GF or Nintendo. ExLight (talk) 00:54, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Reading through Hiwasa's account, it mostly seems to match up, but I digress; my opinion isn't really important for Bulbapedia's purposes. You do bring up an interesting point with "I wonder if it is really possible to reach a verdict without an official pronouncement by GF or Nintendo". I highly, highly doubt that anyone from GF will ever even acknowledge the fact that this supposed demo version is out there, let alone confirm or refute its authenticity. The closest thing to an acknowledgement from a GF employee I know of is James Turner saying that it was the first he had heard of the demo. Staff knows the parameters for confirming something without a reasonable doubt though, and I have confidence that they know how to treat this demo. --Celadonkey 01:14, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Didn't see the discussion here, and I didn't know it was a... divisive topic to put it simply. And judging by what they are saying here, it's almost impossible to prove unless someone that played the demo 21 years ago says anything or an ex-GF member confirms it. Guess I shouldn't have said anything at the GS beta page. --Prog rocker (talk) 02:20, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

I don't thinking trusting the memory from someone who played it 21 years ago is somewhat reliable. The only way to nail it down would be GF or Nintendo confirming it. ExLight (talk) 03:09, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

What about the memory of multiple people who played it 21 years ago? Yoriven (talk) 20:04, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

The Game Review Magazine

As a question, I was wondering why the details of the Game Review Magazine are current on the article. While I can understand Tyranitar due to being recycled for the games, the designs were just created on the fly for a topic in the magazine. Would it be ok to remove everything except for Tyranitar when the article is unlocked? --Super goku (talk) 18:13, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Eh, even if they were just made as a what if scenario, they were still drawn. So I think it should stay.--Force Fire 04:32, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Another discussion about Beta Pokemon Gold

I think it's already been mentioned that the leak might have been a hoax. Now that we've "given it a bit of time" and it's been more than "a few dozen hours", can someone add the new leaks to the page? sumwun (talk) 20:02, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

I think that when information is finished on userspace pages, it would be able to be moved to the mainspace. However, different users have different ideas on how this would look— mine and Abcboy's are pretty different, for example.

That being said, though, I think that if we were able to add this kind of stuff to the mainspace, even if it's not fully complete yet, it would be completed quicker, and there would be more discussion on how to format it and such. --Celadonkey 21:11, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

The main focus should be fleshing out the userpages first. Do NOT add the leak Pokémon on this article. The staff will discuss how to go about putting the leak info on the mainspace.--Force Fire 03:34, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that the supposed leak was faked. As such, we probably shouldn't mainspace the information within.Jdrawer (talk) 03:52, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

As far as I've heard there hasn't been any recent developments about it. What makes you think that? I'm not trying to argue, just trying to hear your thoughts. --Celadonkey 17:28, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

This analysis seems to solidify the existence of two beta GSC pokemon, particularly Kotora and Raitora.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq971cWWzq8&t=82s --Flashlight237 (talk) 18:03, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Any update on the staff discussion? Work on the pages seems to be rather disorganized at the moment- as well as pretty dead. Yoriven (talk) 21:59, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

New comments go at the bottom of the discussion. Have patience, there are other things taking priority at the moment. Users should be focusing on filling out the userpages.--Force Fire 02:56, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Kabiin, Buhi and Papyo are not from Capumon

These three monsters come from a different document and can't be positively dated. Anyways the word "Pokémon" appears on their storyboards along with GameFreak's final logo (which first appeared in Pulseman) at least confirming that they weren't featured in the 1990 pitch. I propose to separate them from the Capumon group.Qbertpo (talk) 10:51, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

Add the Four "MissingNo." That were Identified

I suggest adding the four MissingNo. that have been identified recently. I know that we must not acknowledge the spaceworld leak. Source. - unsigned comment from Kingdedede (talk • contribs)

The Unused Female Character

The unused female character has now appeared in an actual Pokémon game as Green. I propose we create a new page for this character, as it seems to be strongly indicated that she is not the same character as Leaf (though Leaf is partially based on the character, they are not the same). --LavaringX (talk) 05:58, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

NHK Broadcast revealed scrapped Pokemon "Omega" and early Gyarados design.

Helix Chamber has confirmed it to be real as well; https://twitter.com/benisboy/status/1075154504792731648 - unsigned comment from Pichu Madman26 (talk • contribs)

Interesting. I'd say it's worth adding. That Gyarados looks really cool, by the way. --Celadonkey 18:14, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Pokemon GS Beta and Pokemon Green Prototype Data

Okay, so the issue has been up for months now of whether the Pokemon GS Spaceworld demo is real. Various pieces of evidence have been brought up, from leftover assets to discoveries of 4 MissingNo, not only proving the existence of unseen beta Pokemon, but two of them matching suspiciously with Kotora and Raitora [13]. Many things showed favor of this thing being legit, and nothing giving much against it, that is until, the Pokemon Green leaked assets. Due to being poorly presented, many took it as fake, and questioned the overall authenticity of Helix Chamber. But as of today, scans of a Famitsu magazine have been made public. Various concept arts and better quality images of sprites have been revealed. But what really drew my attention was this tweet [14]. If the proto assets were fake, how would the faker get these right? They had no way of knowing, unless it was made by someone at Pokemon, although that would only make it seem more authentic. This is definite evidence of the assets being real, poorly revealed, but real. Knowing this, even more authenticity is added to the Pokemon GS demo being real. This is because various baby Pokemon and the Kotora and Raitora line are found in the assets and are seen in the Spaceworld demo. I really think a decision needs to be made, because more and more evidence is piling up to the Spaceworld Demo and now the Proto-Green Assets, and more and more questions will rise if the staff at Bulbapedia don't put their foot down on what these are. I understand being wary to add info about the Proto-Green Assets, but Spaceworld has had months of waiting, just to be proven beyond reasonable doubt as real. At this point these should be declared on Bulbapedia as real, or as fake, and have that as Bulbapedia's final decision on the matter. LeapingRiolu (talk) 04:04, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Helix Chamber wasn’t the one who released the Spaceworld rom, so the RG incident shouldn’t have affected its already proven without a doubt veracity. Unfortunately, for some people, it has. But yes, I agree. Both prototypes are 100% real. Frankly Spaceworld should have been added several months ago. I feel like Spaceworld also has enough information to warrant much more than just a few additions on this page, and should be expanded to its own pages. Let’s hope we get a full rom of an RG prototype someday, but for now it should go on this page and/or the Pokémon Red and Green beta page. --celadonk (talk) 11:42, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

I don't think a small snippet from Famitsu, and one where we already know most of the information, proves that the RG leak is "100% real". Unless Famitsu or any other official/credible source releases more RG beta content, the RG leak could very well be 100% fake. As for spaceworld, still no official/credible source for that, so I'm still doubtful on that. Yes, it's highly unlikely we'll get official sources for it, and that's just too bad. But for things like beta content, we can really only trust the official sources and not some "leak" from some "anonymous" source.--Force Fire 13:53, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

A lot of the sprites from the Famitsu magazine and the RG asset leak are identical. Some of these sprites were never seen before. Unless whoever sent Helix Chamber has a time machine, this is impossible. Spaceworld has already been confirmed on multiple fronts to be real by experts, and was also confirmed by the RG assets. To be blunt, at this point, claiming either is fake is just denial. It’s hurting the integrity of the wiki to ignore such important information, quite honestly. --celadonk (talk) 18:50, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Oh, and in case more than trainer sprites were needed, which should prove it without a doubt, two names from the RG assets that AFAIK have not appeared before, Ichirou and Yuuichi, appeared in the Famitsu scan. --celadonk (talk) 19:07, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

There's a reason these things are anonymous. We have no idea how anyone would have gotten their hands on these pieces of Pokemon history. Pokemon has confirmed that they look back at old concepts and such for inspiration, so the only way I see it getting out is blatant theft. And if the person revealing the Beta and Assets did give their name, they'd more than likely lose their job and suffer legal consequences. LeapingRiolu (talk) 21:15, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Regardless of anonymity, both these leaks are real. And yes, I suppose that "it's highly unlikely we'll get official sources for it," but at this point, we shouldn't need Gamefreak to magically come down from the sky and spoonfeed us the truth. Anyone can tell from looking at these leaks, especially the RG assets, that they're real, without any room for doubt. Unless, again, Helix Chamber has a time travel machine. This is more than just a "small snippet"; this is cold, hard evidence that proves the veracity of both. Let's not let our personal opinions hurt Bulbapedia. --celadonk (talk) 18:33, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

I have to agree, there's no doubt the leaks are legit by this point. Waiting for confirmation from official sources or Famitsu is asinine, game companies rarely if ever confirm the veracity on such leaks. It seems to me that this place is just inexperienced at dealing with beta leaks. The proof brought up already proves they're not fake; even The Cutting Room Floor, which does have experience at the subject of leaks, prototypes and scrapped content, has accepted them as legit. Stop being so headstrong in the face of proof. Ericss (talk) 06:50, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Admins -- is Gen 5 betamon info all rumors?

Hey admins, how are ya. I made this Bulbapedia account just to write this post.

I've got a YouTube channel that primarily focuses on beta Pokemon content, with an emphasis on having a source for everything. I'm working on Gen 5 now, and I was looking at Bulbapedia's unused Pokemon page. It seems that information regarding the beta of the Hydreigon family, Sawk, Throh, Tornadus, Thundurus, and Stunfisk is all credited to a Nintendo Dream interview with Ken Sugimori. But I've spent about 12 hours over the past couple days searching for that interview, or even a volume number that interview is meant to be contained in. I even googled around in Japanese. Couldn't find a thing. I asked my 22,000 subscribers for help, including some who are Japanese. No one could find anything. It seems Bulbapedia and many other sites have just been citing "a Nintendo Dream interview," and no one has been linking or citing a specific volume.

I'm thinking maybe it's meant to be volume 205, the May 2011 issue. But in that interview Sugimori only says that Hydreigon is based on the Yamata no Ochiri. I'm thinking all these quotes attributed to that Sugimori interview -- about dragon tanks, horned eyebrowless Oni, red Tornadus, and anglerfish Stunfisk -- probably don't exist, and that all Bulbapedia's Gen 5 betamon info is bunk -- all except Sawsbuck and Excadrill. I'd really like to be wrong though.

I tried combing through the page's history tab, but couldn't find where this information was added. I'm new to looking over the back-end of wikis though, so my apologies if I'm just overlooking something obvious. Please let me know, I'd really appreciate it.

Cheers admins,

Dr Lava - unsigned comment from Dr Lava (talk • contribs)

Ultra-ironic if true. -- unsigned comment from ArchdevilAntidote (talk • contribs)

-[19] (User Sawamular cites Nintendo Dream volume 205 as his source, he posted the same message on pokemon talk pages relevant to the Gen 5 beta)

-[20]

-[21]

--Force Fire 05:08, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

(resetting indent)Thanks ForceFire for the links, much appreciated. Of the 7 links you gave me as sources for the Gen 5 Pokemon's altered designs, one of them was in Japanese, one referred to the Nintendo Dream issue as being the February 2011 instead of May, #19 was just a user citing the May issue for the Yamata no Orochi quote but nothing else -- and well, I found the whole collection to be useful but still a little confusing and unclear. The most useful one was a non-ideal translation on page 459 of a Serebii forums thread, which is basically ungooglable. That said, I don't mean to come off as jerky here -- I know you're working with what you've got and I'm impressed you even had this much, and I appreciate your taking the time to provide me these links.

I think this particular Sugimori interview is probably the most important interview that deals with Gen 5 altered Pokemon designs, so I had the interview's Japanese transcript properly translated into English, and a Japanese friend was able to provide me with a picture of volume 205's page that has the information about Hydreigon, Sawk, Throh, and the Forces of Nature trio. I've compiled the original Japanese transcript, the English translation, pictures, and provided context for the interview, and added it all to my website in an easy-to-read article. I also included a special thanks section that thanks you ForceFire for providing valuable links, as well as to Shellspider, the original transcriber, and a link to the archive of his old blog. Several other folks who helped put it all together are thanked as well at the end of the interview's translation. Here's the link: http://lavacutcontent.com/ken-sugimori-nintendo-dream/

I hope that this link can serve as a more convenient, accessible, and accurate source for these "altered design" entries on the "unused Pokemon" page. Like I said, I think this particular Sugimori interview is really important, and information about it is incredibly difficult to find, even with Google. And I think it needs to be preserved and easy to access, particularly for folks who don't speak Japanese. Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to help me find this stuff ForceFire. Sorry if I formatted this post wrong -- I couldn't figure out how to make it a reply to your previous comment, so I just put it here. Cheers. -Dr Lava Dr Lava (talk) 11:56, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

The other staff members also contributed in finding those links, I just relayed the information. A majority of those links all cite the same one source: Nintendo Dream. I've added the information into the altered Pokemon section, linking your site as a reference. I'll eventually get to adding the information to the individual articles.--Force Fire 08:10, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Another Nintendo Dream interview translation with Sugimori

I had another Ken Sugimori interview translated, this one from Nintendo Dream volume 204. Here's the link: http://lavacutcontent.com/ken-sugimori-nintendo-dream-2/

And here are the highlights as it relates to this "unused Pokemon" page:

"Petilil and Lilligant were originally meant as a three-stage evolutionary line."

"Stunfisk was born out of the designer’s desire to create the flattest Pokémon. At first he was modeled after a goosefish, was blue in color, and was dual-type Water and Electric, but during the balancing phase of development, his type was changed and he ended up resembling a flounder." This page currently states he was an angler fish. A goosefish is technically a type of angler fish, but I think most folks think of an angler fish as round, but a goosefish as flat. Idk, maybe that's just me.

"Originally Dwebble and Crustle’s shells were supposed to be made from kiln-fired pottery, which would have made them ‘Furnace Pokémon.’ But we ended up revising the shells and giving them sharper angles, because we thought the original designs looked slow and awkward."

About the Litwick family: "The original concept was to create a Pokémon family that starts as a flame, then a candle, and finally a lamp. But the idea that a flame evolved into a candle wasn’t really working, so we ended up switching the candle’s position to make it the family’s first form."

I talked to SnorlaxMonster on Twitter -- he told me there were a few of you guys in an admin group chat that scrounged up those links you sent me before. Very much appreciated. Cheers ForceFire. Dr Lava (talk) 19:19, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

[June 19, 2019 edit]

I had the interview from Nintendo Dream volume 201 translated as well, here's the link: http://lavacutcontent.com/ken-sugimori-nintendo-dream-3/

The main highlight, at least as far as beta Pokemon, is the section about Karrablast and a scrapped snail Pokemon once meant as Karrablast and Escavalier's rival, or more likely a 2 stage family of snails.

Unpictured

The sheep that we thought could be Flaaffy or Mareep... could also be Wooloo (and if it evolves, maybe whatever it evolves to). --OPStellar (talk) 20:29, 3 August 2019 (UTC)OPStellar

Hoppip's beta name

Please add that Hoppip's beta name was ハネコ Haneco. Thank you. --TheICTLiker4 07:19, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

Gengar & "Nidorino", Omega and Gyaoonh

Change Nidorino to unknown creature. Nidorino was created way after 1990. Nidoran ♂️, Nidoran ♀️, Nidoking, and Nidoqueen were created in 1990. The creature appears to shair traits with Gyaoon as well. Only 30 pokémon were created in 1990, as seen in Capumon documents which also included Omega, which was a robotic tyrannosauroid based on Mecha Godzilla. Omega was first seen in Satoshi Tagiri manga, where most of it's sprite and name was covered up. It was finally seen in December 2018 when the second Capumon sprite page was revealed in an NHK broadcast. It originally used Blastoise's cry, which was seen when in the Gameinformer video interview with James Turner, Gyaoon's cry was also revealed to have been Ivysaur's It may have been a counterpart to Gyaoon as Gyaoon's name is an onomatopoeia for Godzilla's roar. Gyaoon was later moved to slot 31 based on leaked prototype data for Red & Green. The origin of the files is from a hacker that hacked nintendo's servers. This is also where the Spaceworld 1997 G&S Prototype and the Gen 4 beta sprites originated from.

Kingdedede (talk) 01:52, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Well, it seems more clear that everything that was leaked is real. Where the editors at? --Flashlight237 (talk) 05:44, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Prisman

The June 1997 issue of CoroCoro Comics included a "Pokémon 2 Idea Contest". As an example of the kind of designs entrants might like to submit, CoroCoro included a design for a hypothetical Pokémon called "Prisman". Hi Res Pokémon has a translation of its details. --SnorlaxMonster 05:56, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Bandana

You don't spell 'bandana' as 'bandanna'. Please fix. Could anchors be added as well please?--Tmwps (talk) 16:07, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Either spelling is acceptable. --celadonk (talk) 16:18, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Page update

I think this page is in need of an update. We've started putting up some info on the Spaceworld '97 demo, and (currently at least) the policy there is not to draw any comparisons between those beta Pokemon and the final ones. I'd love to include a mention of or at least a link to that page on this one, but that policy kind of throws a wrench into how this page works. We'd need to remove a couple of those here.

Additionally, I think this page could use some just general cleaning. The TrainerPoké template honestly doesn't look great here. My current vision is to change this from a "list" article to a general, more prosey article on unreleased designs, sorted chronologically/by game rather than its resemblance to current Pokemon.

It might also be a good time to bring up some of the other leaked assets, too, since that was over a year ago now. I'm less concerned about Spaceworld '99 here-- that can get its own page-- and more about some of the prerelease sprites.--celadonk (talk) 00:48, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Did you know gaming

Did you know gaming just did a video on this topic with the original translator of pokemon and has several you seem to be missing on this page. Actually on that note, the leaked beta seems to have a few (by a few i mean a decent amount) also not listed here. --J spencer93 (talk) 15:46, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

See Pokémon Gold and Silver Spaceworld '97 demo --celadonk (talk) 18:40, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Many Scrapped Gen I and II Pokémon

How come a lot of scrapped Generation I and II Pokémon like Kotora and Raitora (resembling cute electric tigers) and Twinz (supposedly a pre-evolved form of Girafarig, resembling a two-headed ghost) aren't mentioned here?